noonereal Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Trump's executive order will be upheld by the courts and should be. Yes, I agree it's horrible, it targets religion and will not keep us safer. The problem is, in time of real peril, our president must have the power to do such things. You can't strip the office of the power to protect us. A large swath of this country and our President fells this will keep us safer. As inane as this thought is, Trump was elected and this was his and his followers belief.As my friend Jimbo says, Elections have consequences. Suck it up my liberal friends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 19 minutes ago, noonereal said: Trump's executive order will be upheld by the courts and should be. Yes, I agree it's horrible, it targets religion and will not keep us safer. The problem is, in time of real peril, our president must have the power to do such things. You can't strip the office of the power to protect us. A large swath of this country and our President fells this will keep us safer. As inane as this thought is, Trump was elected and this was his and his followers belief.As my friend Jimbo says, Elections have consequences. Suck it up my liberal friends. I agree. The ban as it has been tinkered with and finally fits the constitutional threshold will likely stand, I'm glad that it was halted, and went through the courts, so that it has been massaged and reworked until it finally may be considered constitutional. I'm also glad that the president is getting rebuked by the courts for his harsh language. I thought he was a salesman, but he is having real trouble figuring out how to sell stuff that if sold in the correct manner would be home run sales. No one wants dangerous people allowed into our country. There is a way to do this without undermining the constitution and in turn undermining our own personal rights. Sell me on it Mr. Salesman/Mr. President. He says it's common sense and it may be, but how you sell it and how you frame it is VERY IMPORTANT. I have no faith that he is learning these valuable lessons though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 14 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: I agree. The ban as it has been tinkered with and finally fits the constitutional threshold will likely stand, I'm glad that it was halted, and went through the courts, so that it has been massaged and reworked until it finally may be considered constitutional. I'm also glad that the president is getting rebuked by the courts for his harsh language. I thought he was a salesman, but he is having real trouble figuring out how to sell stuff that if sold in the correct manner would be home run sales. It was constitutional to start with. The POTUS has the legal authority to do pretty much whatever strikes his fancy when it comes to immigration. The "tinker and massage" was nothing more than lifting the Green Card aspect, which was done to appease the Angry Mob, not for constitutional reasons. It was also nice to see Robart called out yesterday on his 3rd grade level "decision." While I agree that Trump calling him out was highly unprofessional, his statement wasn't that inaccurate if one takes the time to read Robart's gibberish. 14 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: No one wants dangerous people allowed into our country. There is a way to do this without undermining the constitution and in turn undermining our own personal rights. Sell me on it Mr. Salesman/Mr. President. He says it's common sense and it may be, but how you sell it and how you frame it is VERY IMPORTANT. I have no faith that he is learning these valuable lessons though. The Constitution doesn't apply to potential immigrants/refuges, in any shape or form. And he's under no obligation to "sell" you on anything. He's within his rights to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, zulu1128 said: It was constitutional to start with. The POTUS has the legal authority to do pretty much whatever strikes his fancy when it comes to immigration. The "tinker and massage" was nothing more than lifting the Green Card aspect, which was done to appease the Angry Mob, not for constitutional reasons. It was also nice to see Robart called out on his 3rd grade level "decision." While I agree that Trump calling him out was highly unprofessional, his statement wasn't that inaccurate if one takes the time to read Robart's gibberish. The Constitution doesn't apply to potential immigrants/refuges, in any shape or form. And he's under no obligation to "sell" you on anything. He's within his rights to do it. Sir, when this order was first placed, it was found wanting. It locked out people that had visa's and was rolled out in such a hurried and inept fashion that no one knew who, what, when, where, how and why. It had to be taken to the courts to get the damn thing dialed back. Thanks for playing. He will need to do a lot of selling to people like-minded to me if he is going to manage this country well at all. Again... Thanks for playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, HawgGoneIt said: Sir, when this order was first placed, it was found wanting. It locked out people that had visa's and was rolled out in such a hurried and inept fashion that no one knew who, what, when, where, how and why. It had to be taken to the courts to get the damn thing dialed back. Thanks for playing. You're confusing "found wanting" with "constitutional." No worries, it seems to be a common mistake these days. 1 minute ago, HawgGoneIt said: He will need to do a lot of selling to people like-minded to me if he is going to manage this country well at all. Again... Thanks for playing. You're confused again. How does "selling" you have anything to do with managing the country well? Either he will or he wont....your feelz have no impact whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, zulu1128 said: You're confusing "found wanting" with "constitutional." No worries, it seems to be a common mistake these days. You're confused again. How does "selling" you have anything to do with managing the country well? Either he will or he wont....your feelz have no impact whatsoever. I don't think I was confusing anything, considering they walked it back so that it would be found constitutional. So you don't think he should even try to get the opposition on board at all? I think just a simple change in rhetoric and tone could make his path a lot easier. That might just be my feelz getting in the way though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 8 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: I don't think I was confusing anything, considering they walked it back so that it would be found constitutional. The fact that you're under the impression that's why they "walked it back" illustrates your confusion just fine. They stated clearly that the Green Card issue was part of the clumsy roll-out, and were in the process of changing it well before any judge even looked at it. You're either confused or pretty disingenuous...I'll leave it to you to pick which one. 8 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: So you don't think he should even try to get the opposition on board at all? I think just a simple change in rhetoric and tone could make his path a lot easier. That might just be my feelz getting in the way though. The opposition has made it pretty clear that they will oppose him no matter what. The previous occupant replied to a lesser tantrum from his opponents with the "I won, go sit in the back" line...and he seemed to do okay by many standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealCAJ Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 31 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: I don't think I was confusing anything, considering they walked it back so that it would be found constitutional. So you don't think he should even try to get the opposition on board at all? I think just a simple change in rhetoric and tone could make his path a lot easier. That might just be my feelz getting in the way though. Keep in mind who you are talking to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 33 minutes ago, TheRealCAJ said: Keep in mind who you are talking to. Chip, he's talking to someone who, unlike you, has a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Interesting. The image the press appears to want us to have is of a Europe where most want open doors with open arms. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/most-europeans-want-muslim-ban-immigration-control-middle-east-countries-syria-iran-iraq-poll-a7567301.html A majority of Europeans want a ban on immigration from Muslim-majority countries, a poll has revealed. An average of 55 per cent of people across the 10 European countries surveyed wanted to stop all future immigration from mainly Muslim countries. The Chatham House study, conducted before US President Donald Trump signed an executive order banning immigration to the US from seven predominantly Muslim countries, found majorities in all but two of the ten states opposed immigration from mainly Muslim countries. Only 20 per cent disagreed, while 25 per cent said they did not know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 There is a reason why the opposition went to the arguably the most liberal bench in the land for help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealCAJ Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Trump and Giuliani's big mouth could come back to bite that clown show in the ass. "Intent", is what is actually being debated by the Courts right now. Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fox News interview admitting President Donald Trump's executive order banning all refugees and nationals of seven Muslim-majority countries was originally conceived as a way to fulfill Trump's campaign promise of a Muslim ban, has come back to haunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBP66 Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 3 hours ago, noonereal said: Trump's executive order will be upheld by the courts and should be. Yes, I agree it's horrible, it targets religion and will not keep us safer. The problem is, in time of real peril, our president must have the power to do such things. You can't strip the office of the power to protect us. A large swath of this country and our President fells this will keep us safer. As inane as this thought is, Trump was elected and this was his and his followers belief.As my friend Jimbo says, Elections have consequences. Suck it up my liberal friends. ...I don't think it gets upheld..I think the Whitehouse's lawyer got slapped around yesterday. In a time of "real peril"???...that's what Donny and the right claim..is it TRUE?...NO...not IMO...no one form those 7 countries has attacked us since 9-11...therefore no justification IMO...their rational is that the "previous administration" identified these countries?...and the previous administration made it so anyone form those countries need a visa to enter the U.S...and that protection HAS WORKED...no one from those countries has attacked us. Donny and the right are playing into people fears once again....and they fall for it...the paranoid right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaximumHornetSting Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 What Trump will do is fuel the Hate for us by the Middle East by keeping this ban in place.... This ban will keep evil out? If Terrorist want to do something they'll find a way this Ban is just another obstacle for em... Believe me I dont want Terrorist here either. But this Ban isnt going to stop it. Its like a thief. A thief will find a way to steal what they want regardless of what you do... Trump is about to fuck us all.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, TheMaximumHornetSting said: What Trump will do is fuel the Hate for us by the Middle East by keeping this ban in place.... This ban will keep evil out? If Terrorist want to do something they'll find a way this Ban is just another obstacle for em... Believe me I dont want Terrorist here either. But this Ban isnt going to stop it. Its like a thief. A thief will find a way to steal what they want regardless of what you do... agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, TheMaximumHornetSting said: What Trump will do is fuel the Hate for us by the Middle East by keeping this ban in place.... This ban will keep evil out? If Terrorist want to do something they'll find a way this Ban is just another obstacle for em... Believe me I dont want Terrorist here either. But this Ban isnt going to stop it. Its like a thief. A thief will find a way to steal what they want regardless of what you do... Trump is about to fuck us all.... It appears your position is for the country to just bend over, butter its collective buns, and let it happen. Excellent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealCAJ Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 19 minutes ago, DBP66 said: ...I don't think it gets upheld..I think the Whitehouse's lawyer got slapped around yesterday. I don't know, but he wasn't too sharp. I listened to the whole thing. Will be interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaximumHornetSting Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 Just now, concha said: It appears your position is for the country to just bend over, butter its collective buns, and let it happen. Excellent. Hell no thats not what I want but be real for a minute. What is this Ban gonna do? Iran already hates us. And now they have a reason to hate us more.... Dude there has to be a better way to do this.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, concha said: It appears your position is for the country to just bend over, butter its collective buns, and let it happen. Excellent. That is a wild interpretation of his post. I read it to say we should be wise, measured, vigilant and pragmatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 1 minute ago, noonereal said: That is a wild interpretation of his post. I read it to say we should be wise, measured, vigilant and pragmatic. Is a 90 day pause to work with said countries in order to refine vetting methods none of those things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealCAJ Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, concha said: It appears your position is for the country to just bend over, butter its collective buns, and let it happen. Excellent. It's better than being cornholed by a 70 year old man that has as much political experience as you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, zulu1128 said: Is a 90 day pause to work with said countries in order to refine vetting methods none of those things? it's prudent when needed. It's just not needed. We face no crisis. Hence my stance to not strip the president of his authority, just be sure we stop electing people who will do such counter productive things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, noonereal said: it's prudent when needed. It's just not needed. We face no crisis. "Crisis" isn't mentioned anywhere in the existing statutes. And while I agree that the US faces no current "crisis," a quick look at recent events in Germany and France clearly justifies some degree of proactivity on our part...which is exactly how the current law and the EO in question are written. 4 minutes ago, noonereal said: Hence my stance to not strip the president of his authority, just be sure we stop electing people who will do such counter productive things. The degree of productivity has yet to be determined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealCAJ Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 49 minutes ago, DBP66 said: Donny and the right and playing into people fears once again....and they fall for it...the paranoid right... You know. The dishonest media is not covering terror around the world like they should. They are not even covering it. Trump, if he lasts will go down as the goofiest President in our history. So goofy....... His grandchildren will have to leave the country 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBP66 Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 21 minutes ago, noonereal said: it's prudent when needed. It's just not needed. We face no crisis. Hence my stance to not strip the president of his authority, just be sure we stop electing people who will do such counter productive things. ..I can't keep up with you...in your earlier post you said we're in a "time of peril"...now we face "no crisis"???....you seemed confused... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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