MD IMG Game Analysis... Ali Frasier two anyone?

[Gospeeder]

IMO MD won on the scoreboard but it is still debatable who the better team may be. Styles can make for interesting match ups and this was the classic puncher vs. boxer scenario.

MD finessed the win with a great job of offensive play calling after figuring out in the third quarter that they were not going to overpower IMG and needed the passing game to set up the running game.

Watching them up close IMG was noticeably bigger, faster, more powerful...their running backs ran through MD's defense seemingly at will. Sanders and Cain are on a totally different level even for the Trinity. That may have been different if MD's DC had prepared better and responded to all of IMG's "offensive tells" of which there were many... but he obviously didn't... making a tough job a hell of a lot tougher.

Noting the above, this game ultimately got down to MD's better offensive coaching and which team was going to be disciplined enough to have fewer PF penalties that killed drives and kept this from being a high scoring affair.

The game evolved to what great games should... the last three possessions which had the whole place sucked in. Many will question IMG's decision to kick the FG ( Steeler, Mr. Cain and I could not figure that one as they were setting up ) when IMG was rolling through the MD defense but that's the way it played out.

Bottom line is that if IMG can put more diversity in their offensive schemes, deal with their OL giving away plays and get in better condition,  they will be as formidable as a team can be at this point of the season. As far as MD goes... they showed with that last drive they have everything it takes to man up and elevate their game when their backs are against the wall. In many ways one could say MD grew up by the 4th quarter and became a much better team which will serve them well come playoff time.

Last observation about the event... which is what this eventually turned out to be... going beyond a normal hs game. The stadium was packed to the gills along with a huge crowd in the end zone gardens that prompted the PA announcer to ask them to move into the stands but nobody did because there was no room left for them to move to.

Props have to be given the IMG fans who traveled across the county in force to be there. Steeler and I had seats on the 50 about half way up the stands with several of the IMG players fathers sitting with us including Noah Cain's dad who compared the crowd intensity to that of the DFW area of which he was from. Talking with them though out the game also gave us more insight about the reality of IMG's program which could be the subject of another thread.

I was initially indifferent to both programs due to the intense transfer thing but figured the game may be entertaining. Well it went beyond just entertaining. I found myself gravitating toward becoming a homer and I think Steeler did too as we spent a lot of time discussing what we thought MD should do to exploit the IMG weaknesses and get the edge.

I maybe learned a thing or two last night that may have softened that position. Every once in a while you attend a game that turns out to be the whole package and this game ended up being just that. Recruited teams or not, this was still HS football where the result was not a given and everyone in the house was emotionally invested in it. No one left unsatisfied.

[ohio]

5 hours ago, Gospeeder said:

IMO MD won on the scoreboard but it is still debatable who the better team may be. Styles can make for interesting match ups and this was the classic puncher vs. boxer scenario.

MD finessed the win with a great job of offensive play calling after figuring out in the third quarter that they were not going to overpower IMG and needed the passing game to set up the running game.

Watching them up close IMG was noticeably bigger, faster, more powerful...their running backs ran through MD's defense seemingly at will. Sanders and Cain are on a totally different level even for the Trinity. That may have been different if MD's DC had prepared better and responded to all of IMG's "offensive tells" of which there were many... but he obviously didn't... making a tough job a hell of a lot tougher.

Noting the above, this game ultimately got down to MD's better offensive coaching and which team was going to be disciplined enough to have fewer PF penalties that killed drives and kept this from being a high scoring affair.

The game evolved to what great games should... the last three possessions which had the whole place sucked in. Many will question IMG's decision to kick the FG ( Steeler, Mr. Cain and I could not figure that one as they were setting up ) when IMG was rolling through the MD defense but that's the way it played out.

Bottom line is that if IMG can put more diversity in their offensive schemes, deal with their OL giving away plays and get in better condition,  they will be as formidable as a team can be at this point of the season. As far as MD goes... they showed with that last drive they have everything it takes to man up and elevate their game when their backs are against the wall. In many ways one could say MD grew up by the 4th quarter and became a much better team which will serve them well come playoff time.

Last observation about the event... which is what this eventually turned out to be... going beyond a normal hs game. The stadium was packed to the gills along with a huge crowd in the end zone gardens that prompted the PA announcer to ask them to move into the stands but nobody did because there was no room left for them to move to.

Props have to be given the IMG fans who traveled across the county in force to be there. Steeler and I had seats on the 50 about half way up the stands with several of the IMG players fathers sitting with us including Noah Cain's dad who compared the crowd intensity to that of the DFW area of which he was from. Talking with them though out the game also gave us more insight about the reality of IMG's program which could be the subject of another thread.

I was initially indifferent to both programs due to the intense transfer thing but figured the game may be entertaining. Well it went beyond just entertaining. I found myself gravitating toward becoming a homer and I think Steeler did too as we spent a lot of time discussing what we thought MD should do to exploit the IMG weaknesses and get the edge.

I maybe learned a thing or two last night that may have softened that position. Every once in a while you attend a game that turns out to be the whole package and this game ended up being just that. Recruited teams or not, this was still HS football where the result was not a given and everyone in the house was emotionally invested in it. No one left unsatisfied.

Nice post.

It was a good game overall.  IMG may have looked like the more athletic team, but got out coached.

If there were to be a rematch at the end of the year, on neutral turf, I think that IMG may have the edge.  They probably would expect the trick plays and may not fall for them again.  Plus, their offense may get better as their players get more time to get adjusted to each other.  They have a lot of room for improvement with all that talent.

Too bad the two won't get a chance to meet again.

[The Stache]

35 minutes ago, ohio said:

 

Too bad the two won't get a chance to meet again.

No that's a good thing

[GrecoRoman]

7 hours ago, Gospeeder said:

IMO MD won on the scoreboard but it is still debatable who the better team may be. Styles can make for interesting match ups and this was the classic puncher vs. boxer scenario.

MD finessed the win with a great job of offensive play calling after figuring out in the third quarter that they were not going to overpower IMG and needed the passing game to set up the running game.

Watching them up close IMG was noticeably bigger, faster, more powerful...their running backs ran through MD's defense seemingly at will. Sanders and Cain are on a totally different level even for the Trinity. That may have been different if MD's DC had prepared better and responded to all of IMG's "offensive tells" of which there were many... but he obviously didn't... making a tough job a hell of a lot tougher.

Noting the above, this game ultimately got down to MD's better offensive coaching and which team was going to be disciplined enough to have fewer PF penalties that killed drives and kept this from being a high scoring affair.

The game evolved to what great games should... the last three possessions which had the whole place sucked in. Many will question IMG's decision to kick the FG ( Steeler, Mr. Cain and I could not figure that one as they were setting up ) when IMG was rolling through the MD defense but that's the way it played out.

Bottom line is that if IMG can put more diversity in their offensive schemes, deal with their OL giving away plays and get in better condition,  they will be as formidable as a team can be at this point of the season. As far as MD goes... they showed with that last drive they have everything it takes to man up and elevate their game when their backs are against the wall. In many ways one could say MD grew up by the 4th quarter and became a much better team which will serve them well come playoff time.

Last observation about the event... which is what this eventually turned out to be... going beyond a normal hs game. The stadium was packed to the gills along with a huge crowd in the end zone gardens that prompted the PA announcer to ask them to move into the stands but nobody did because there was no room left for them to move to.

Props have to be given the IMG fans who traveled across the county in force to be there. Steeler and I had seats on the 50 about half way up the stands with several of the IMG players fathers sitting with us including Noah Cain's dad who compared the crowd intensity to that of the DFW area of which he was from. Talking with them though out the game also gave us more insight about the reality of IMG's program which could be the subject of another thread.

I was initially indifferent to both programs due to the intense transfer thing but figured the game may be entertaining. Well it went beyond just entertaining. I found myself gravitating toward becoming a homer and I think Steeler did too as we spent a lot of time discussing what we thought MD should do to exploit the IMG weaknesses and get the edge.

I maybe learned a thing or two last night that may have softened that position. Every once in a while you attend a game that turns out to be the whole package and this game ended up being just that. Recruited teams or not, this was still HS football where the result was not a given and everyone in the house was emotionally invested in it. No one left unsatisfied.

I think MD is actually the better team but if they played 10 times IMG would win more games. I say this because they have the better running game and seemed to control the trenches which in my opinion wins out the majority of the time. 

The only reason IMG lost in this game is that they played the only team in the country with the tact and skill to make the right plays at the right time (and execute) and that's what make them them the better team.  However when you continually rely on mixing offensive sets, playcalling & execution that is much harder than just lining up and pounding the rock.

Another way to say it is that MD looked to be slightly overmatched yet still won - the mark of a true team making them even more deserving of the accolades they eventually get.  IMG could never beat anyone who outmatched them talent wise  (of course there is no one) 

[GrecoRoman]

7 hours ago, Gospeeder said:

IMO MD won on the scoreboard but it is still debatable who the better team may be. Styles can make for interesting match ups and this was the classic puncher vs. boxer scenario.

MD finessed the win with a great job of offensive play calling after figuring out in the third quarter that they were not going to overpower IMG and needed the passing game to set up the running game.

Watching them up close IMG was noticeably bigger, faster, more powerful...their running backs ran through MD's defense seemingly at will. Sanders and Cain are on a totally different level even for the Trinity. That may have been different if MD's DC had prepared better and responded to all of IMG's "offensive tells" of which there were many... but he obviously didn't... making a tough job a hell of a lot tougher.

Noting the above, this game ultimately got down to MD's better offensive coaching and which team was going to be disciplined enough to have fewer PF penalties that killed drives and kept this from being a high scoring affair.

The game evolved to what great games should... the last three possessions which had the whole place sucked in. Many will question IMG's decision to kick the FG ( Steeler, Mr. Cain and I could not figure that one as they were setting up ) when IMG was rolling through the MD defense but that's the way it played out.

Bottom line is that if IMG can put more diversity in their offensive schemes, deal with their OL giving away plays and get in better condition,  they will be as formidable as a team can be at this point of the season. As far as MD goes... they showed with that last drive they have everything it takes to man up and elevate their game when their backs are against the wall. In many ways one could say MD grew up by the 4th quarter and became a much better team which will serve them well come playoff time.

Last observation about the event... which is what this eventually turned out to be... going beyond a normal hs game. The stadium was packed to the gills along with a huge crowd in the end zone gardens that prompted the PA announcer to ask them to move into the stands but nobody did because there was no room left for them to move to.

Props have to be given the IMG fans who traveled across the county in force to be there. Steeler and I had seats on the 50 about half way up the stands with several of the IMG players fathers sitting with us including Noah Cain's dad who compared the crowd intensity to that of the DFW area of which he was from. Talking with them though out the game also gave us more insight about the reality of IMG's program which could be the subject of another thread.

I was initially indifferent to both programs due to the intense transfer thing but figured the game may be entertaining. Well it went beyond just entertaining. I found myself gravitating toward becoming a homer and I think Steeler did too as we spent a lot of time discussing what we thought MD should do to exploit the IMG weaknesses and get the edge.

I maybe learned a thing or two last night that may have softened that position. Every once in a while you attend a game that turns out to be the whole package and this game ended up being just that. Recruited teams or not, this was still HS football where the result was not a given and everyone in the house was emotionally invested in it. No one left unsatisfied.

Great analysis analysis here by the way.  I actually thought MD would win - I've seen them a few times now and couldn't be more impressed.  

I also thought it would be for the reasons mentioned within your pose.  A few guys had mentioned IMG won't be ready for MD's hitting - I said trust me that won't be the case.  They play each other in practice - no one they play is going to surprise them athletically 

[ThunderRam]

8 hours ago, Gospeeder said:

IMO MD won on the scoreboard but it is still debatable who the better team may be.

 

I find it convenient how the final score trumps all until somehow it doesn't.

When IMG had the ball last against Centennial a few years ago because the Huskies scored too quickly, all those poking fun at CA cited the final score as the only thing that counted. Same logic should apply here.

Mater Dei was clearly the better team because the scoreboard says so. I'm sure somebody has a photo of that scoreboard somewhere.

[Gospeeder]

2 minutes ago, GrecoRoman said:

Great analysis analysis here by the way.  I actually thought MD would win - I've seen them a few times now and couldn't be more impressed.  

I also thought it would be for the reasons mentioned within your pose.  A few guys had mentioned IMG won't be ready for MD's hitting - I said trust me that won't be the case.  They play each other in practice - no one they play is going to surprise them athletically 

That was exactly the case Friday night. IMG hit and bulldozed. They set the stage with Cain on their first possession. MD was also not prepared for their up-tempo pace early on. 

[Gospeeder]

2 minutes ago, ThunderRam said:

 

I find it convenient how the final score trumps all until it somehow doesn't.

When IMG had the ball last against Centennial a few years ago because the Huskies scored to quickly, all those poking fun at CA cited the final score as the only thing that counts. Same logic should apply here.

Mater Dei was clearly the better team because the scoreboard says so. I'm sure somebody has a photo of that scoreboard somewhere.

Its funny you bring that up as some of the discussion we had with the IMG folks was about CC. They talked a lot about that game and team in particular. They felt CC was every bit as good as their kids and were lucky to to get that win. 

[GrecoRoman]

38 minutes ago, Gospeeder said:

That was exactly the case Friday night. IMG hit and bulldozed. They set the stage with Cain on their first possession. MD was also not prepared for their up-tempo pace early on. 

No HS team can be expected to stop that ground game.  The TB #6 is very good - I would think he has to be one of the best in the nation (dont follow enough to know).  When he cutback and hit the hole on his long run the MD kids looked like they were stuck in mud (and their not slow by any means) I would think MD stopped their run  as good as anyone could.  Not sure who IMG still plays but if any team can hold up better against the ground game that will be new favorite team lol (I'm a defensive guy if you can't tell lol) 

[Eddyr2]

49 minutes ago, ThunderRam said:

 

I find it convenient how the final score trumps all until somehow it doesn't.

When IMG had the ball last against Centennial a few years ago because the Huskies scored too quickly, all those poking fun at CA cited the final score as the only thing that counted. Same logic should apply here.

Mater Dei was clearly the better team because the scoreboard says so. I'm sure somebody has a photo of that scoreboard somewhere.

 

[GrecoRoman]

2 minutes ago, Eddyr2 said:

 

lol thats great.

And  no doubt the truth - the better team wins the game.  My college coach used to stats are for whining b****** and men use the scoreboard

[Eddyr2]

1 hour ago, GrecoRoman said:

Great analysis analysis here by the way.  I actually thought MD would win - I've seen them a few times now and couldn't be more impressed.  

I also thought it would be for the reasons mentioned within your pose.  A few guys had mentioned IMG won't be ready for MD's hitting - I said trust me that won't be the case.  They play each other in practice - no one they play is going to surprise them athletically 

Yeah...IMG whilted in and started to fade/gas out at the end of both the 2nd and 4th. IMG wasn’t ready for MD’s hitting...they didn’t KO’ed them in the 1st but MD TKO’ed them in the 4th Nick Diaz style

#dontbescaredhomie

[Eddyr2]

9 hours ago, Gospeeder said:

IMO MD won on the scoreboard but it is still debatable who the better team may be. Styles can make for interesting match ups and this was the classic puncher vs. boxer scenario.

MD finessed the win with a great job of offensive play calling after figuring out in the third quarter that they were not going to overpower IMG and needed the passing game to set up the running game.

Watching them up close IMG was noticeably bigger, faster, more powerful...their running backs ran through MD's defense seemingly at will. Sanders and Cain are on a totally different level even for the Trinity. That may have been different if MD's DC had prepared better and responded to all of IMG's "offensive tells" of which there were many... but he obviously didn't... making a tough job a hell of a lot tougher.

Noting the above, this game ultimately got down to MD's better offensive coaching and which team was going to be disciplined enough to have fewer PF penalties that killed drives and kept this from being a high scoring affair.

The game evolved to what great games should... the last three possessions which had the whole place sucked in. Many will question IMG's decision to kick the FG ( Steeler, Mr. Cain and I could not figure that one as they were setting up ) when IMG was rolling through the MD defense but that's the way it played out.

Bottom line is that if IMG can put more diversity in their offensive schemes, deal with their OL giving away plays and get in better condition,  they will be as formidable as a team can be at this point of the season. As far as MD goes... they showed with that last drive they have everything it takes to man up and elevate their game when their backs are against the wall. In many ways one could say MD grew up by the 4th quarter and became a much better team which will serve them well come playoff time.

Last observation about the event... which is what this eventually turned out to be... going beyond a normal hs game. The stadium was packed to the gills along with a huge crowd in the end zone gardens that prompted the PA announcer to ask them to move into the stands but nobody did because there was no room left for them to move to.

Props have to be given the IMG fans who traveled across the county in force to be there. Steeler and I had seats on the 50 about half way up the stands with several of the IMG players fathers sitting with us including Noah Cain's dad who compared the crowd intensity to that of the DFW area of which he was from. Talking with them though out the game also gave us more insight about the reality of IMG's program which could be the subject of another thread.

I was initially indifferent to both programs due to the intense transfer thing but figured the game may be entertaining. Well it went beyond just entertaining. I found myself gravitating toward becoming a homer and I think Steeler did too as we spent a lot of time discussing what we thought MD should do to exploit the IMG weaknesses and get the edge.

I maybe learned a thing or two last night that may have softened that position. Every once in a while you attend a game that turns out to be the whole package and this game ended up being just that. Recruited teams or not, this was still HS football where the result was not a given and everyone in the house was emotionally invested in it. No one left unsatisfied.

Know Rollo, EJ (the MD DC) and Monday (the MD OC) for over 20 years now, I can explain to you what they were thinking. In big games when MD is out skill and over sized the game plan is alway, play it bend don’t break defense, catch them on there heels with trick plays and set up every play in the 1st to have a counter in the 4th. 

Im sure the d was told, stay home, sworn, hit them hard and don’t give up the big play. They did that for the most part. Other then the one 84 yard run, IMG didn’t have any big plays.

coach money has been calling that reverse flea flicker in every big game since 1994 and it almost always works. The backwards toss to the LT was new but the 2 point conversion play MD has been running since 99.

And in big games Rollo takes risks and tell the team the truth. “They are bigger, they are faster and they will beat you down on every play, but if you punch back if you don’t back down they won’t know what to do. They will start turning on themselves and when that happens boy, you look at you brother next to you and you smile, because that’s when we go for the kill...Warrrrrriiiiiiiooooors!!!! 

[Cal 14]

13 hours ago, ThunderRam said:

 

I find it convenient how the final score trumps all until somehow it doesn't.

When IMG had the ball last against Centennial a few years ago because the Huskies scored too quickly, all those poking fun at CA cited the final score as the only thing that counted. Same logic should apply here.

Mater Dei was clearly the better team because the scoreboard says so. I'm sure somebody has a photo of that scoreboard somewhere.

Not only do I disagree with this logic, I strongly disagree.  Upsets happen all the time.

Take the Antioch-Clayton Valley game from earlier this year in NorCal.  CVC had a few turnovers early in the game, which helped Antioch build a lead.  Once the Eagles settled down, they stormed back, but lost because they went for two at the end of regulation and didn't get it.  In a rematch, on which team would you put your money?

The only reason the notion of "the better team always wins" tends to take hold in football is because logistically, we can't have a series of games between two teams as we can in basketball or baseball.  If the last place baseball team takes game 1 of a 3-game series against the first place team, are they "the better team"?  Or is the first place team better after taking the 2nd and 3rd games?  For other sports, we tend to understand that the team that wins the most frequently over the course of a season is the best team.  What makes football exempt from this?

[Cal 14]

13 hours ago, Eddyr2 said:

Yeah...IMG whilted in and started to fade/gas out at the end of both the 2nd and 4th. IMG wasn’t ready for MD’s hitting...they didn’t KO’ed them in the 1st but MD TKO’ed them in the 4th Nick Diaz style

#dontbescaredhomie

During the halftime interview for TV, the IMG coach actually admitted he thought his team was getting tired late in the 2nd quarter.  I thought that was really strange:

1.  ...for the coach to admit.

2.  ...for it to be true.

[Eddyr2]

36 minutes ago, Cal 14 said:

During the halftime interview for TV, the IMG coach actually admitted he thought his team was getting tired late in the 2nd quarter.  I thought that was really strange:

1.  ...for the coach to admit.

2.  ...for it to be true.

It reminded me of Mcgregor vs Diaz 1...Connor hit Nate hard and really hurt Nate but didn’t quite KO him. After that Connor was gassed and Nate took over. After the game was over you could almost see Rollo say:

[Pops]

35 minutes ago, Cal 14 said:

Not only do I disagree with this logic, I strongly disagree.  Upsets happen all the time.

Take the Antioch-Clayton Valley game from earlier this year in NorCal.  CVC had a few turnovers early in the game, which helped Antioch build a lead.  Once the Eagles settled down, they stormed back, but lost because they went for two at the end of regulation and didn't get it.  In a rematch, on which team would you put your money?

The only reason the notion of "the better team always wins" tends to take hold in football is because logistically, we can't have a series of games between two teams as we can in basketball or baseball.  If the last place baseball team takes game 1 of a 3-game series against the first place team, are they "the better team"?  Or is the first place team better after taking the 2nd and 3rd games?  For other sports, we tend to understand that the team that wins the most frequently over the course of a season is the best team.  What makes football exempt from this?

One, thunder was obviously making a point about double standards not a definitive scientific statement

two, baseball is a different game — the best team in baseball wins 60%!of their games  where the best teams in football win 90%+ — the scoreboard tells us the better team in football much more often 

[NotBigdaddybloom]

Was this an analysis or an analogy? 

[Eddyr2]

14 hours ago, Gospeeder said:

That was exactly the case Friday night. IMG hit and bulldozed. They set the stage with Cain on their first possession. MD was also not prepared for their up-tempo pace early on. 

all part of the plan...

1st drive

2nd half

last drive

 

 

[Cal 14]

3 hours ago, Pops said:

One, thunder was obviously making a point about double standards not a definitive scientific statement

two, baseball is a different game — the best team in baseball wins 60%!of their games  where the best teams in football win 90%+ — the scoreboard tells us the better team in football much more often 

Uh, no, that's not what he said.  He did highlight some hypocrisy, he stated that Mater Dei was "clearly the best team" because they won on the scoreboard. 
 

If you see a game that was decided by one score, that means it really could have gone either way.  With the example I gave with Antioch and CVC, that the Panthers won didn't tell me at all that they were better than the Ugly Eagles.  Hell, my alma mater lost a NorCal regional game because the coach made a stupid-ass decision for a 2-point attempt, rather that just going up by 9 with a PAT.  That game didn't tell me that the opponent was "clearly better".

The best teams win 90% of their games mostly because they're mostly playing vastly inferior opponents.  When they go up against someone much closer, you could absolutely not tell me that they'd still win 90+% of those games.

[Gospeeder]

10 hours ago, NotBigdaddybloom said:

Was this an analysis or an analogy? 

Good question. It started out as an analysis but transitioned into an analogy between the two programs.

As I started into an analysis I thought to jump over to the game thread and when I saw some of the posts, it did not make sense to repeat some of the more accurate statements breaking down the game and make an already long post longer.

 

[ThunderRam]

16 hours ago, Cal 14 said:

Not only do I disagree with this logic, I strongly disagree.  Upsets happen all the time.

You misunderstand me. In several cases when a NorCal/CA team lost and someone postulated that the better team didn't actually win, the scoreboard is always referenced as the end all, be all. I'm merely returning serve.

Those that subscribe to that belief need to apply it across the board, not selectively. That's all I was trying to imply.

[ThunderRam]

12 hours ago, Cal 14 said:

Uh, no, that's not what he said.  He did highlight some hypocrisy, he stated that Mater Dei was "clearly the best team" because they won on the scoreboard.

You're right. I didn't explicitly state a double-standard. I implied it. @Pops just understands me to a point where he picked up on it.

To be clear, I fully agree with what you are saying. The scoreboard doesn't always tell the truth hence the reason we often see complete reversals in rematches if/when they are played. I don't really want to carry on, as I think we're in agreement. I was just poking fun at those that cite the scoreboard as absolute when it benefits them yet somehow don't see things the same way when it doesn't. That tends to happen here a lot.

I'm open to the idea that we didn't really find out whether MD was better than IMG on Friday night just as we didn't really find out whether IMG was better than Centennial in 2016. We know who got the W's on those respective nights, but nothing more.