Teacher fired for giving a 0 for work not done

[HSFBfan]

In south Florida a teacher has been fired for giving a student a 0 for not doing the work. Apparently there is a no 0 policy and the lowest grade is a 50. So if you didnt do any of the work you get a 50. This is nuts

http://amp.wftv.com/news/local/teacher-fired-after-refusing-to-abide-by-no-zero-policy-when-students-didnt-hand-in-work/840999722?1537901124092

[concha]

7 minutes ago, Sportsnut said:

Same effect.

50 is an F

same as a 0.

Nothing to argue about.

These are the type issues you idiots consider worthy of attention.

So sad.

Idiot.

If grading is done on a numerical scale (which the district states is used), it can have a big effect.

 

[Gospeeder]

I guarantee China, India and a host of other countries that we will have to seriously compete with over the next decade and beyond are not doing this. It will be their best vs our best and if we don't start teaching this generation how to be street smart and disciplined enough to face off with their best, it won't take a rocket scientist to figure out how that will end  up.

[maxchoboian]

12 hours ago, Gospeeder said:

I guarantee China, India and a host of other countries that we will have to seriously compete with over the next decade and beyond are not doing this. It will be their best vs our best and if we don't start teaching this generation how to be street smart and disciplined enough to face off with their best, it won't take a rocket scientist to figure out how that will end  up.

When student teaching 30 years ago, and preparing final grades, the Principal told me they did not give "F"s at his Denver Public School. I went ahead and handed in grades that included 6 "F"s. If he chose to change what I gave, that was up to him. I couldn't get through to some kids. Tried and tried and tried. But I was not giving any mark that resembled even the least bit of effort to students who did absolutely nothing. A combination of things, including the Principal's attitude, pushed me away from teaching.

It ain't just "this generation." It's been going on for some time.

[noonereal]

On 9/25/2018 at 5:28 PM, HSFBfan said:

In south Florida a teacher has been fired for giving a student a 0 for not doing the work. Apparently there is a no 0 policy and the lowest grade is a 50. So if you didnt do any of the work you get a 50. This is nuts

 

why do you feel this is nuts? 

[Horsefly]

This discussion needs to start with WHY they don’t give zeros, it’s not arbitrary.  

[HSFBfan]

13 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

This discussion needs to start with WHY they don’t give zeros, it’s not arbitrary.  

Because it's some stupid ass policy

[Horsefly]

10 minutes ago, HSFBfan said:

Because it's some stupid ass policy

What is the perceived benefit to a no zero policy?  

[HSFBfan]

1 minute ago, Horsefly said:

What is the perceived benefit to a no zero policy?  

Oh I see what your asking. I'd have to go back and read the article again. But at the end of the day why would anyone get a 50 for doing nothing. I'm gonna try this at work. Do nothing and turn around and say no boss I did half of it 

[Horsefly]

54 minutes ago, HSFBfan said:

Oh I see what your asking. I'd have to go back and read the article again. But at the end of the day why would anyone get a 50 for doing nothing. I'm gonna try this at work. Do nothing and turn around and say no boss I did half of it 

At a younger age it helps keep kids motivated an not discouraged to do their best b/c they might find its in some cases impossible to recover from a zero.  Unfortunately the “no zero” policy carries on through HS and I think it’s less helpful, but in the elementary years when they are still developing it can be. 

[HSFBfan]

2 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

At a younger age it helps keep kids motivated an not discouraged to do their best b/c they might find its in some cases impossible to recover from a zero.  Unfortunately the “no zero” policy carries on through HS and I think it’s less helpful, but in the elementary years when they are still developing it can be. 

I disagree. Kids need to learn when you do nothing you get a 0. 

[Horsefly]

Just now, HSFBfan said:

I disagree. Kids need to learn when you do nothing you get a 0. 

 In fact, I don’t think kids in younger years should have grades at all, it should be objective and goal centered for each child. 

Read more on the subject, it’s not all black and white.  Grades are an antiquated way to assess achievement.  

[HSFBfan]

1 minute ago, Horsefly said:

 In fact, I don’t think kids in younger years should have grades at all, it should be objective and goal centered for each child. 

Read more on the subject, it’s not all black and white.  Grades are an antiquated way to assess achievement.  

I disagree. It's very simple. You pass or fail based upon your achievements. Same has in life you either do a job and succeed or get fired

[Horsefly]

3 minutes ago, HSFBfan said:

I disagree. It's very simple. You pass or fail based upon your achievements. Same has in life you either do a job and succeed or get fired

There are benefits of not assessing on a graded scale and it has merit.  Children and adults perform better when they have specific tasks and objectives to reach.  In fact that’s exactly how adults in the workplace are assessed.  Do you get a grade for performance?  

[HSFBfan]

1 minute ago, Horsefly said:

There are benefits of not assessing on a graded scale and it has merit.  Children and adults perform better when they have specific tasks and objectives to reach.  In fact that’s exactly how adults in the workplace are assessed.  Do you get a grade for performance?  

Obv not its either succeed or be fired. But in school you have to prove how much knowledge you have. You cant assess 2 people in a classroom the same. Take me for example I can get Bs in school without buying a book or a pen. Than there are students who have to work very hard to get a B. Than you taken it to the real world where they can find work rewarding and such and I find it highly frustrating. I've been "graded" on 1-5 scales for my job performance 

[Horsefly]

2 minutes ago, HSFBfan said:

Obv not its either succeed or be fired. But in school you have to prove how much knowledge you have. You cant assess 2 people in a classroom the same. Take me for example I can get Bs in school without buying a book or a pen. Than there are students who have to work very hard to get a B. Than you taken it to the real world where they can find work rewarding and such and I find it highly frustrating. I've been "graded" on 1-5 scales for my job performance 

 Grades stigmatize students and assess them on an across the board standard.   They also are an obstacle to creativity and taking chances as children don’t want to do anything that jeopardizes a grade.  It’s a poor way of stimulating learning.  

[HSFBfan]

1 minute ago, Horsefly said:

 Grades stigmatize students and assess them on an across the board standard.   They also are an obstacle to creativity and taking chances as children don’t want to do anything that jeopardizes a grade.  It’s a poor way of stimulating learning.  

So assessing how much they are grasping information is stigmatizing them??? If they are poor in a subject or just dumb it will be reflected in the grades outside of just laziness. Your not there to be creative. Your there to remember information and give it back to them. I think in HS yes you should get grades but the forum of learning needs to expand. You learn the same stuff year after year its boring after awhile. We need to introduce more hS students to the real world applications 

[Horsefly]

46 minutes ago, HSFBfan said:

So assessing how much they are grasping information is stigmatizing them??? If they are poor in a subject or just dumb it will be reflected in the grades outside of just laziness. Your not there to be creative. Your there to remember information and give it back to them. I think in HS yes you should get grades but the forum of learning needs to expand. You learn the same stuff year after year its boring after awhile. We need to introduce more hS students to the real world applications 

By grades.  There are other ways to assess.  I just listed them

a lot of HS are already being introduced to the real world.  Controversy over zeros or no zeros misses the mark IMO.  That’s not the purpose of education.  

[Horsefly]

Just now, Horsefly said:

By grades.  There are other ways to assess.  I just listed them

a lot of HS are already being introduced to the real world.  Controversy over zeros or no zeros misses the mark IMO.  That’s not the purpose of education.  

But even still.  Zero or a 50 is the same thing grade wise.  If a student doesn’t correct behavior they get an “F”. If they correct the behavior they still have an opportunity to not fail overall and at the end of the day they were able to correct or fix detrimental behavior.  Lesson learned.  

[HSFBfan]

3 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

By grades.  There are other ways to assess.  I just listed them

a lot of HS are already being introduced to the real world.  Controversy over zeros or no zeros misses the mark IMO.  That’s not the purpose of education.  

So showing that you are not grasping thr information is not the purpose of education? Showing you that you are weak In a subject is not part of education. If you dont do any work you deserve a 0 or to be fired. It's that simple. 

[Horsefly]

3 minutes ago, HSFBfan said:

So showing that you are not grasping thr information is not the purpose of education? Showing you that you are weak In a subject is not part of education. If you dont do any work you deserve a 0 or to be fired. It's that simple. 

Of course it is that’s where objectives and goals come from 

[HSFBfan]

2 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Of course it is that’s where objectives and goals come from 

Your goal is to do the best and get the best grade you can get. Without grades why do anything? That would just lead to more laziness. 

[Horsefly]

50 minutes ago, HSFBfan said:

Your goal is to do the best and get the best grade you can get. Without grades why do anything? That would just lead to more laziness. 

No, that’s not what I mean by goal based.  The goals are created by the teacher, specialists, etc. for each student based on an expected set of outcomes.  

[HSFBfan]

27 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

No, that’s not what I mean by goal based.  The goals are created by the teacher, specialists, etc. for each student based on an expected set of outcomes.  

Idk about that 

[noonereal]

3 hours ago, Horsefly said:

At a younger age it helps keep kids motivated an not discouraged to do their best b/c they might find its in some cases impossible to recover from a zero.  Unfortunately the “no zero” policy carries on through HS and I think it’s less helpful, but in the elementary years when they are still developing it can be. 

Question... just thinking out loud

Is not a grade supposed to represent what a student has absorbed in the class? 

A+ 100%

A 95%

A 90% .. 

or something like this?? At least in theory, conceptionally?)

Is so, how does a missing homework help to evaluate how much a student has absorbed?

Would not a missing homework (obviously not one) be more indicative of a non academic issue? Likely behavioral?

Just why do we grade homework at all is something else that comes to mind as a question.