Navy Seal Father Slams Trump

[DevilDog]

Did any of you guys hear or read about the interview with the Miami Herald on Sunday Slamming Trump about that ill fated mission that got his son killed? 

Some Highlights:    Do you agree or disagree with the Dad's assessment?  Interested to know from the Military guys.  Please remain respectful to this warrior regardless which side you are on.  I will post my thoughts.

He refused to meet with Trump when he visited the Dover Air Force Base to receive the casket carrying his son, Chief Special Warfare Officer William “Ryan” Owens.  "I'm sorry, I don't want to see him," Owens recalled telling the chaplain who informed him that Trump was on his way from Washington. "I told them I don't want to meet the president."  

“The government owes my son an investigation,” Owens, a retired Fort Lauderdale police detective and veteran, told the Herald

He said he was also troubled by the attack Trump leveled at Khizr and Ghazala Kahn, an American Muslim family whose Army officer son died in Iraq in 2004

 "Why at this time did there have to be this stupid mission when it wasn't even barely a week into his administration? Why? For two years prior, there were no boots on the ground in Yemen — everything was missiles and drones — because there was not a target worth one American life. Now, all of a sudden we had to make this grand display?"

 

[DevilDog]

My 2 cents:

1) I am torn as a warrior you sign up knowing the destiny of your life no longer is solely in your hands.  Therefore you go do what your are told to do when you are told to do it. 

2) With that said no leadership should rush into anything for self aggrandizing because you talked tough and needed to send a message to supporters.

3)  Every mission is fraught with danger and is expected as such.  I know many SEALS as they serve with Marines on Gator Amphib's they are warriors but just as human as anyone else and they have had many of these type of terrible mishaps. I will not name them all but Grenada and Panama were major Cluster Fuck's.  They had a series of bad luck and sad to say the Bin Laden killing brought them fame they never asked for and mythical status.  Now this is a long line of incidents with them that was not well planned or thought out and that is always placed at the top of the COC. 

Look it up about Grenada (4 drowned) and Panama (look it up).  So me knowing them and their History I am torn between terrible execution on their part or a terrible President's decision led them into this.  Your thoughts.  Regardless it was not a successful mission and I hope it is investigated.

[ChimpGrip]

5 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

My 2 cents:

1) I am torn as a warrior you sign up knowing the destiny of your life no longer is solely in your hands.  Therefore you go do what your are told to do when you are told to do it. 

2) With that said no leadership should rush into anything for self aggrandizing because you talked tough and needed to send a message to supporters.

3)  Every mission is fraught with danger and is expected as such.  I know many SEALS as they serve with Marines on Gator Amphib's they are warriors but just as human as anyone else and they have had many of these type of terrible mishaps. I will not name them all but Grenada and Panama was a major Cluster Fuck.  They had a series of bad luck and sad to say the Bin Laden killing brought them fame they never asked for and mythical status.  Now this is a long line of incidents with them that was not well planned or thought out and that is always placed at the top of the COC. 

Look it up about Grenada (4 drowned) and Panama (look it up).  So me knowing them and their History I am torn between terrible execution on their part or Terrible President that led them into this.  Your thoughts.  Regardless it was not a successful mission and I hope it is investigated.

Which group SEALs do you know? I've met some active DEVGRU guys (soon to retire though). Both Gold Squadron. The SEAL killed in the raid was also Gold Squadron.

[DevilDog]

52 minutes ago, ChimpGrip said:

Which group SEALs do you know? I've met some active DEVGRU guys (soon to retire though). Both Gold Squadron. The SEAL killed in the raid was also Gold Squadron.

Not the members from Seal Team 6 which are from the East Coast and are not actually SEAL Team six that is DEVGRU.  I know the guys from San Diego out on Coronado.   Most are the ones that were on the USS Okinawa with me and retired guys.  Great guys well trained but no more elite than FORCE RECON, DELTA, RANGERS, OR SF.  It is all mission based.  Again heckuva warriors but the Bin Laden raid gave Civilians a false narrative of them.  The ones I know are retired mostly CPO's.  

Terrible tragedy.  What do you think about the subject Chimp?   What is your weigh-in.  I am not here to claim right or wrong.  Interested in your take since you have 1st hand interaction with some of them.   Again I give them mad respect and have went over to Little Creek as a Marine DI @ MCRD and watched the BUD's do their thing. 
 

No doubt special warriors.  But even they should not be led into a terrible mission.  President Trump did say he knew more than the General's and putting this on Obama's administration as planning it  would be stupid since he had the same General's and they never made the call for this mission.

[Cat_Scratch]

59 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

Did any of you guys hear or read about the interview with the Miami Herald on Sunday Slamming Trump about that ill fated mission that got his son killed? 

Some Highlights:    Do you agree or disagree with the Dad's assessment?  Interested to know from the Military guys.  Please remain respectful to this warrior regardless which side you are on.  I will post my thoughts.

He refused to meet with Trump when he visited the Dover Air Force Base to receive the casket carrying his son, Chief Special Warfare Officer William “Ryan” Owens.  "I'm sorry, I don't want to see him," Owens recalled telling the chaplain who informed him that Trump was on his way from Washington. "I told them I don't want to meet the president."  

“The government owes my son an investigation,” Owens, a retired Fort Lauderdale police detective and veteran, told the Herald

He said he was also troubled by the attack Trump leveled at Khizr and Ghazala Kahn, an American Muslim family whose Army officer son died in Iraq in 2004

 "Why at this time did there have to be this stupid mission when it wasn't even barely a week into his administration? Why? For two years prior, there were no boots on the ground in Yemen — everything was missiles and drones — because there was not a target worth one American life. Now, all of a sudden we had to make this grand display?"

 

Wasn't this attack planned by the Obama administration? Sorry if I read some fake news somewhere.

[CCBlackhatter]

I believe the Dad is speaking out of emotion, and nothing more. Would he still criticize Trump had the mission taken place 2 years into his candicacy, and the seal lost his life? 

When you sign a contract with the military, you knowingly agree to carry out any orders you receive, and you know that at times your life will be in danger. I have respect for the young man's service, but his father seems to be a grieving mess.

President Trump showed class by showing up to greet the fallen soldier, and his dad should recognize this as an act of respect instead of acting like a petulant child. As we know, past Presidents, as recent as Obama, did not act in this manner. 

[ChimpGrip]

15 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

Not the members from Seal Team 6 which are from the East Coast and are not actually SEAL Team six that is DEVGRU.  I know the guys from San Diego out on Coronado.   Most are the ones that were on the USS Okinawa with me and retired guys.  Great guys well trained but no more elite than MARSOC, DELTA, RANGERS, OR SF.  It is all mission based.  Again heckuva warriors but the Bin Laden raid gave Civilians a false narrative of them.  The ones I know are retired mostly CPO's.  

Terrible tragedy.  What do you think about the subject Chimp?   What is your weigh-in.  I am not here to claim right or wrong.  Interested in your take since you have 1st hand interaction with some of them.   Again I give them mad respect and have went over to Little Creek as a Marine DI @ MCRD and watched the BUD's do their thing. 
 

No doubt special warriors.  But even they should not be led into a terrible mission.  President Trump did say he knew more than the General's and putting this on Obama's administration as planning it  would be stupid since he had the same General's and they never made the call for this mission.

It is indeed a tragedy. I think the father is just emotionally devastated over it and wants nothing to do with those who "ordered" the raid. Hence why he doesn't want to see Trump (this is just an assumption of course). I don't know the circumstances/details behind the raid that led to him getting killed in action. One of my dads DEVGRU friends (who was just awarded the Navy Cross) has more details on it. Once I hear more I'll be able to form a much more refined opinion on the matter.  

 

I dont know know too much about Rangers but I know the SFOD-D and DEVGRU are your tip of the spear tier one guys. They operate all over the world. My dad also knew one of the DEVGRU shooters who took out one of the pirates holding captain Phillips. He was later killed in Extortion 17, but he was a bad son of son of a gun. Showed absolutely no mercy. And he was on his 14th tour. 

 

And yes BUDS is extremely difficult. One of the guys told me he got a total of 15 minutes of sleep over hell week! 

[DevilDog]

8 minutes ago, CCBlackhatter said:

I believe the Dad is speaking out of emotion, and nothing more. Would he still criticize Trump had the mission taken place 2 years into his candicacy, and the seal lost his life? 

When you sign a contract with the military, you knowingly agree to carry out any orders you receive, and you know that at times your life will be in danger. I have respect for the young man's service, but his father seems to be a grieving mess.

President Trump showed class by showing up to greet the fallen soldier, and his dad should recognize this as an act of respect instead of acting like a petulant child. As we know, past Presidents, as recent as Obama, did not act in this manner. 

No doubt he is speaking from emotion.  He lost his son and I feel he has a right to know every detail that went into this decision that cost his life.  Do you think this was hastily put together.  What previous President acted this quickly upon assuming office?  If planned by Obama with the same General's why didn't they act if the target was viable at the time of planning?  Several were injured which is not reported much and it seems they slaughtered many women and children.   Any Military guy will tell you that is not a successful operation.  It could have been faulty intel.  An investigation would suffice.  There were millions spent on Benghazi so the Republicans should be happy to do the same with this.  Thanks for your input. 

[NorCalRuss]

Troops die in combat. That's the hard facts. When you go through a SITREP, they will tell ya expected casualties. If there is ever a count above 1 should the mission be called off? To blame the president every time a troop dies is crazy. Someone in the chain of command gave it a go and told Trump it will be a success. I've also read lot of reports that say this mission was a success minus the loss of troop.

The Benghazi parents were "liars" according to some. Many didn't want to listen to those their involved and believed the govts AAR.  The truth is, unless you were on the mission, or had eyes in the sky, no one knows what really happen. The govt has always made sure the after actions review was in their favor. 

Remember the Extortion 17 fiasco. Lots and lots of " alternative " facts going around in that one and I don't remember every day Johns and Sally's blaming the govt or Obama but parents think it was possibly a inside job and some blamed Obama as well. I personally would hope our govt would be above that. I think that's a natural occurrence, someone has to take blame 

Remember Mogadisha ? The event that Mr Clinton said he didn't even know about. Well, We were at the airfield at checkpoint SCC7 in Sinai, Egypt with combat load waiting for approval from Clinton to go help and he wouldn't approve it because he didn't want a international incident. At least that's what we were being told the 12 hours we were there. I'm sure there were others in the region doing same as us  

Bottom line is it's a tragedy anytime any troop is lost but most civilians just don't realize that's part of the life of a soldier. Not every mission will be executed flawlessly with no KIA. 

[CCBlackhatter]

Just now, DevilDog said:

No doubt he is speaking from emotion.  He lost his son and I feel he has a right to know every detail that went into this decision that cost his life.  Do you think this was hastily put together.  What previous President acted this quickly upon assuming office?  If planned by Obama with the same General's why didn't they act if the target was viable at the time of planning?  Several were injured which is not reported much and it seems they slaughtered many women and children.   Any Military guy will tell you that is not a successful operation.  It could have been faulty intel.  An investigation would suffice.  There were millions spent on Benghazi so the Republicans should be happy to do the same with this.  Thanks for your input. 

I'm not read up enough on the details of the mission to say either way. I also do not know the details of planning the mission. Perhaps real time combat resulted in a change from the original plan for the mission.

I understand the want to have an investigation, but that is not reason enough for a public outcry. That should be left to those in charge of making those decisions. With that being said, the father may not have wanted the media to run wild with the "story", but they did on their own command.

[NorCalRuss]

4 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

No doubt he is speaking from emotion.  He lost his son and I feel he has a right to know every detail that went into this decision that cost his life.  Do you think this was hastily put together.  What previous President acted this quickly upon assuming office?  If planned by Obama with the same General's why didn't they act if the target was viable at the time of planning?  Several were injured which is not reported much and it seems they slaughtered many women and children.   Any Military guy will tell you that is not a successful operation.  It could have been faulty intel.  An investigation would suffice.  There were millions spent on Benghazi so the Republicans should be happy to do the same with this.  Thanks for your input. 

I read it was a go under  Obama, they were just waiting for good moon to execute. Those women were reportedly firing Ak47s or some of them. You know as well as I do that these guys use civilians as human shields and their will and always have been civilian casualties in war. You try to limit as much as possible. 

[DevilDog]

4 minutes ago, NorCalRuss said:

Troops die in combat. That's the hard facts. When you go through a SITREP, they will tell ya expected casualties. If there is ever a count above 1 should the mission be called off? To blame the president every time a troop dies is crazy. Someone in the chain of command gave it a go and told Trump it will be a success. I've also read lot of reports that say this mission was a success minus the loss of troop.

The Benghazi parents were "liars" according to some. Many didn't want to listen to those their involved and believed the govts AAR.  The truth is, unless you were on the mission, or had eyes in the sky, no one knows what really happen. The govt has always made sure the after actions review was in their favor. 

Remember the Extortion 17 fiasco. Lots and lots of " alternative " facts going around in that one and I don't remember every day Johns and Sally's blaming the govt or Obama but parents think it was possibly a inside job and some blamed Obama as well. I personally would hope our govt would be above that. I think that's a natural occurrence, someone has to take blame 

Remember Mogadisha ? The event that Mr Clinton said he didn't even know about. Well, We were at the airfield at checkpoint SCC7 in Sinai, Egypt with combat load waiting for approval from Clinton to go help and he wouldn't approve it because he didn't want a international incident. At least that's what we were being told the 12 hours we were there. I'm sure there were others in the region doing same as us  

Bottom line is it's a tragedy anytime any troop is lost but most civilians just don't realize that's part of the life of a soldier. Not every mission will be executed flawlessly with no KIA. 

No sane person can argue with you on this sir.

[Cat_Scratch]

My family has a military history all the way back to the American Revolutionary War. I place my hand on my heart every time I hear the Star Spangled Banner and think of our soldiers fighting and dying. I have mad respect for our Country, Flag, Military, and Commander in Chief. I've said it before, not my first choice, but I would die protecting Trump from an assassin if I had the choice, Obama too. Would you?

I don't like war. I do know that it is necessary at certain times. As a SEAL, Ryan Owens did what he was trained to do. The mission was an Intelligence gathering mission. The team did their jobs and Ryan lost his life. The mission could be seen as a failure, or a success with loss of life. The SEAL team did take laptops from ISIS rebels.

I feel bad for Bill Owens, the father. I know I would hate Trump if it were my son too, but nothing can bring back his son. It would be absurd to investigate every time soldier's died in battle.

Don't look for reasons to hate, look for ways to fix instead. This country will survive Trump and his dumb ass ECO blind team, but will you?

[Cat_Scratch]

16 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

No doubt he is speaking from emotion.  He lost his son and I feel he has a right to know every detail that went into this decision that cost his life.  Do you think this was hastily put together.  What previous President acted this quickly upon assuming office?  If planned by Obama with the same General's why didn't they act if the target was viable at the time of planning?  Several were injured which is not reported much and it seems they slaughtered many women and children.   Any Military guy will tell you that is not a successful operation.  It could have been faulty intel.  An investigation would suffice.  There were millions spent on Benghazi so the Republicans should be happy to do the same with this.  Thanks for your input. 

The Yemen raid, which the White House has said was intended to gather intelligence, immediately came under scrutiny for resulting in the first combat death under Trump’s presidency. In addition to Owens’ death, several other service members were injured, and reports have said as many as two dozen civilians, or more, were killed, including an eight-year-old daughter of the deceased al Qaeda leader Anwar al-Awlaki, an American citizen who was killed in a drone strike in 2011.

[NorCalRuss]

1 minute ago, Drummer61 said:

Funny and sad,when Clinton and nobama  were blasted by parents of those killed in Benghazi,not a word was said on this board ?? Why only when Trump gets news do bashers  come out from under their rocks ??? When nobama threatened Syria and Assad for killing his own,then like the coward he is,did nothing,not one of you said a word !!!!!

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Benghazi and Yemen are 2 totally different scenarios and different circumstances.  I don't think 2 should be compared.  Now I do believe we could make a case of Somalia and Benghazi in the sense that they were left to defend themselves but still different entities.  

[NorCalRuss]

4 minutes ago, Drummer61 said:

That is not the issue at all.  The  issue is why only Trump and never nobama or Clinton..  

That's a easy answer. It did happen with Clinton and Obama just in a much smaller scale. Most major news outlets are left and would slant in favor of a Dem and opposite with Rep.  Trump has few allies on either side, lot of it brought on by himself from his antics. 

[NorCalRuss]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amp/what-went-wrong-inside-yemen-seal-raid-n716216

 

 

[181pl]

Yeah that article was completely slanted and politicized. Total b*******. That paper is one of the worst in the country. The st. Pete Times is a liberal pile of stinking s***. 

[Cat_Scratch]

On a softer note.

Micheal Jackson's daughter, Paris, modeling in Paris. The US flag on an old GI Jeep.

[World Citizen]

There should always be an investigation After every raid, mission or whatever you want to call it.  You must always review to see of it can be done better.  Investigations are not always an attempt to place blame.  But if it is discovered that blame is warranted then you can fix it and do better next time.

I don't know the details of this or why it was done but it happened under Trump and he owns it.  Don't care if Obama planned it or not, Trump executed it.  

 

[NorCalRuss]

16 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

There should always be an investigation After every raid, mission or whatever you want to call it.  You must always review to see of it can be done better.  Investigations are not always an attempt to place blame.  But if it is discovered that blame is warranted then you can fix it and do better next time.

I don't know the details of this or why it was done but it happened under Trump and he owns it.  Don't care if Obama planned it or not, Trump executed it.  

 

There is, it's called a After Action Review. 

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/army/tc_25-20/tc25-20.pdf

With that said, everything the Military does shouldn't immediately be public record. Especially while the conflict is still active and on going. 

[Horsefly]

1. First,  condolences to the Owens family, nothing I  say is intended to disparage the grief the family is feeling nor the heroism and sacrifice the son made in service to country.

2. Minimal blame should be placed on Trump directly, although he may be involved at a very high strategic level, he doesn't plan nor execute tactical level missions...that's squarely on the shoulders of the military.  They assess risk, they check for planned differences from the time Obama may have been involved to what has changed since then. The shelf life between planning and executing these missions is fairly short. Top brass could have very well recommended delaying the mission if conditions weren't good, but they didn't.

[World Citizen]

1 hour ago, Drummer61 said:

If you don't know the details,you should not comment or place blame.. Timming of events are not always controllable.. Bush made it possible to get Osama by implementing certain protocols and those came to fruition under nobama...He took took advantage of them and you don't praise Bush,rather nobama..Timming in many cases,makes mistakes bad or  good things to happen.

 

I shouldn't comment because you say so?  GTFO I didn't place blame you simpleton.  All I said is that it should be investigated to see if improvements can be made or made better.  NorCalRuss was kind enough to tell me about an action review process so that was the correct way to respond to my post.  Your such a dolt.  How about you don't comment here ever again because your dumb.  See how that works dumbass.

[World Citizen]

1 hour ago, NorCalRuss said:

There is, it's called a After Action Review. 

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/army/tc_25-20/tc25-20.pdf

With that said, everything the Military does shouldn't immediately be public record. Especially while the conflict is still active and on going. 

I agree that it should not be public record immediately.  Great point and thanks for the "After action review" info.  I had forgot about that.  

[Nolebull813]

It will all blow over as time goes by right? Nothing to see here 

http://www.intrepidreport.com/archives/9649