Belly Bob Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Troll said: Funny when Bellybob said no wars in Europe, my first thought was I guess he does not consider Ukraine Bosnia or Georgia as European... What about Crimea.....or notrthern Caucus(only a stretch geographically and not ethnically... list of wars has not stopped at any point.... No, I don't consider Ukraine, Bosnia, Georgia, or the Crimea as politically or culturally part of Europe. Do you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, ohio said: No. The Nazi party was not about nationalism. It was about world domination. Hitler's regime wanted to take over Europe, then Asian, and finally the Americas. If he was successful, you and I would never have been born. Well he actually wanted to team up with churchill to take down stalin. Whe. Churchill said no Hitler and his people couldnt believe it. And that started the end of Hitler and the nazis. Well I would have been born as part of fascist Italy. You on the other hand might not have been so lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted December 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Belly Bob said: No, I don't consider Ukraine, Bosnia, Georgia, or the Crimea as politically or culturally part of Europe. Do you? Bosnia - would be news to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Bormio said: The devastation of the world wars was not the result of nationalism - it was the quantum leap in weaponry that was the primary factor. Wars had been fought in Europe for centuries and never been so lethal.. Concluding that nation states were evil was the wrong lesson. Nationalism did have much to do with it. Those countries have different languages, cultures, and nationalities. They need to unite to some degree, but not totally. But they should also not allow Germany and France to force their will on them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted December 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, ohio said: That's the major reason for all the wars that they have had throughout history. Peace has allowed Europe to prosper. Europeans relying on US troops and nuclear weapons has made them prosperous - and that prosperity is very uneven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 Just now, ohio said: Nationalism did have much to do with it. Those countries have different languages, cultures, and nationalities. They need to unite to some degree, but not totally. But they should also not allow Germany and France to force their will on them as well. There is no reason for them to unite. They all have different cultures languages currency etc etc. They need to protect what they are. Not sell themselves out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, HSFBfan said: England screwed the south. They were supposed to come to the aid of the south and never did. If the South won, you would not have been born. Any change in history would be devastating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: [...] 13 individual colonies who took care of themselves. Had their own currency their own government and it kept the central government limited. I'd absolutely love to go back to that. 4 minutes ago, Bormio said: Europe has no history of being united or positive reason to become so. Our history is very different- and we almost did not make it. That's good. The anti-globalists or nationalist or who knows what they are can't agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted December 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, ohio said: Nationalism did have much to do with it. Those countries have different languages, cultures, and nationalities. They need to unite to some degree, but not totally. But they should also not allow Germany and France to force their will on them as well. But Germany will always dominate the EU - they are an economic juggernaut. Germans have the $ and write the rules. The French are wannabes and tired of German-speaking troops marching down the Champs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 31 minutes ago, Bormio said: Europe is coming unglued Unfortunately you may be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: That's good. The anti-globalists or nationalist or who knows what they are can't agree. You took two quotes from two different things. I was asked a specific question and I gave an answer to that question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, ohio said: Unfortunately you may be right. Which could be a very good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, ohio said: If the South won, you would not have been born. Any change in history would be devastating. How would the south winning stop me from being born? What are you talking about?? How would nazi Germany stop me from being born? Nazi Germany was not after my people. Matter of fact my people and nazi Germany were allies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, ohio said: How would you feel if every state in the US becomes its own nation? For instance, you would need a passport and a Visa to cross state...um...national lines. Now you are right about going too far with globalism, especially with open borders. Just as the US is stronger as a united nation, Europe will be stronger if united to a certain degree. But you are right there are many issues to be worked out and Germany and France, to some degree, have become bullies there. One of the major reasons for Brexit. some stats for you..... USA total land area equals only 2% of the worlds surface Americans constitute less than 4.5 % of the world's population but consume a quarter of the world's energy. On average, one American consumes as much energy as o 2 Japanese o 6 Mexicans o 13 Chinese o 31 Indians o 128 Bangladeshis o 307 Tanzanians o 370 Ethiopians so who want's open borders..... and am I a nationalist if I don't think so??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 This is a fun topic.....let's continue tomorrow. For now I gotta go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted December 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Troll said: some stats for you..... USA total land area equals only 2% of the worlds surface Americans constitute less than 4.5 % of the world's population but consume a quarter of the world's energy. On average, one American consumes as much energy as o 2 Japanese o 6 Mexicans o 13 Chinese o 31 Indians o 128 Bangladeshis o 307 Tanzanians o 370 Ethiopians so who want's open borders..... and am I a nationalist if I don't think so??? How much of the world’s production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 And @Belly Bob how can your liberal friends only blame the USA for the treaty of Versailles? I gotta hear this as I need a good laugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, HSFBfan said: And @Belly Bob how can your liberal friends only blame the USA for the treaty of Versailles? I gotta hear this as I need a good laugh I guess for the same reasons that you'd blame the USA but not nationalism for WII. It's all very, very funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bormio said: How much of the world’s production? 👍 Basically why I think we should be exporting technology and such to Africa.....not importing their 'downtrodden' people... people migration is ass backwards from what we should be doing... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: I guess for the same reasons that you'd blame the USA but not nationalism for WII. It's all very, very funny. Without the USA and its allies the nazis may never have come to power. If you like alternate history go read books by harry turtle dove Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Troll said: some stats for you..... USA total land area equals only 2% of the worlds surface Americans constitute less than 4.5 % of the world's population but consume a quarter of the world's energy. On average, one American consumes as much energy as o 2 Japanese o 6 Mexicans o 13 Chinese o 31 Indians o 128 Bangladeshis o 307 Tanzanians o 370 Ethiopians so who want's open borders..... and am I a nationalist if I don't think so??? These facts have often been used to discount the argument that the world is overpopulated. The world isn't overpopulated. Rather, Americans disgustingly over consume. I'm not sure how you're using these facts in an argument that Americans should close their borders to those who consume less than the average American. But maybe that's not your point. I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, Troll said: Funny when Bellybob said no wars in Europe, my first thought was I guess he does not consider Ukraine Bosnia or Georgia as European... What about Crimea.....or notrthern Caucus(only a stretch geographically and not ethnically... list of wars has not stopped at any point.... True, but these wars were regional and did not spread throughout Europe. Europe is a very industrialized continent and could mobilize militarily very quickly, both conventional and nuclear. Within a few years they could rival the US and Russia in military might, maybe even surpass both and there is nothing that the US could do about it. Heck, the US can't even curb North Korea's nuclear push. I doubt anybody wants a major war in Europe, well maybe HSFBfan. Just kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 26 minutes ago, Troll said: that's kind of the problem as I see it too. Just an 'anti' protest.... They are not 'promoting' anything, other that shipping migrants back home, and rejection of all the recent globalistic policies... Believe me, it's economic as well. I have some extended family there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 Just now, HSFBfan said: Without the USA and its allies the nazis may never have come to power. If you like alternate history go read books by harry turtle dove And without nationalism or anti-semitism or anti-Communism, the Nazis may never have come to power. If Hitler had gotten into art school the Nazis may never have come to power. If Hitler's mother had gotten sick when she was pregnant, the Nazis may never have come to power. Is that the joke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted December 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Troll said: 👍 Basically why I think we should be exporting technology and such to Africa.....not importing their 'downtrodden' people... people migration is ass backwards from what we should be doing... As long as we don’t send it to corrupt plutocracies. Exporting “ideas” can work. After WW2, cheap “Made in Japan” goods flooded our country. People wondered how to fight back. My wise granddad said - “We will just have to export the AFL-CIO”. And lo and behold, rising Japanese wages did the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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