Troll Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 BTW..here's the quick rundown on France video again LOL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, Troll said: My only position has been that this is not a 'nationalist movement' even tho many of the aspects of the issues involved might make you think so. Then what are we disagreeing about? It may be that it's rarely in the best interest of a nation state to go to war, but that doesn't imply that its citizens don't often think otherwise. And I don't get your point about our own 50 states. I would say that the Federal Government can and does solve problems that might otherwise turn into tragedies of the commons. But maybe I'm missing your point. I'll have to watch the video another time. I'm lying in bed with my laptop next to my wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 On 12/6/2018 at 10:06 PM, Nolebull813 said: The world is a blueprint on what to never do. Immigration in the 21st century is probably the worst thing you can possibly do to your country. We need nationalism now more than ever Why do you say "21st century" what is different now? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 39 minutes ago, noonereal said: Why do you say "21st century" what is different now? Thanks Maybe it's because now the US depends so much on immigrants from India and China to fill positions in medicine and STEM. Maybe that's why immigration is probably the worst thing you could possibly do to your country in the 21st century. You have to think like the half-educated whose views are informed mostly by alt-right websites run by 30-year-old boys who have never held a real job and who still live at home with their parents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: Maybe it's because now the US depends so much on immigrants from India and China to fill positions in medicine and STEM. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: Maybe it's because now the US depends so much on immigrants from India and China to fill positions in medicine and STEM. Maybe that's why immigration is probably the worst thing you could possibly do to your country in the 21st century. You have to think like the half-educated whose views are informed mostly by alt-right websites run by 30-year-old boys who have never held a real job and who still live at home with their parents. or maybe you need to justify mass migration to concentrated portions of the planet.....based on wealth... which you so vigorously support. not an effective means of moving forward as a whole... impeding progress until every human on the planet is in lockstep, or thinking that every person and culture must be 'equal' by some arbitrary mark before moving forward is obtuse...and thinking that location or uprooting of families or even entire societies is beneficial is extremely myopic...and not nearly addressing any problems or causes... basically it is a cop out....at the expense of the successful..... that has no legitimate reasoning as justification. And you have displayed none here either...regardless of the 'nationalism bad' schtick...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 25 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: Maybe it's because now the US depends so much on immigrants from India and China to fill positions in medicine and STEM. Maybe that's why immigration is probably the worst thing you could possibly do to your country in the 21st century. You have to think like the half-educated whose views are informed mostly by alt-right websites run by 30-year-old boys who have never held a real job and who still live at home with their parents. really off the wall... so now we have no medicine without those medically inclined Chinese saviors.... that we depend on so much 🤣 GTFOOH LOL still deep in the rhetorical well are you.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, noonereal said: Why do you say "21st century" what is different now? Thanks because people don't want, or find cheap manual laborers and refugees, to be the most 'beneficial' to their economies...today. where let's say a couple hundred years ago they were just the right ticket for the farms and driving GDP etc. and more than just financially, some things are not always a net gain....even if they were in the past. If you think you can prove any net gain...we would all love to see how you would try to contort one.... ...today... and your welcome.. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 22 minutes ago, Troll said: mass migration to concentrated portions of the planet..... not an effective means of moving forward as a whole... impeding progress Why is this inherently not effective and how does it impede progress. (you may need define progress and get a different perspective in reply) BTW, I am NOT arguing. I am questioning. If you are gonna be insulted again just because someone asks you a question please do not reply. No reply will teach me to not bother in the future so either way it's all good. We either stop your angry posts and have a discussion or we ignore one another. I am being straight forward nothing else. So don't get all girl. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, Troll said: because people don't want, or find cheap manual laborers and refugees, to be the most 'beneficial' to their economies...today. where let's say a couple hundred years ago they were just the right ticket for the farms and driving GDP etc. and more than just financially, some things are not always a net gain....even if they were in the past. If you think you can prove any net gain...we would all love to see how you would try to contort one.... ...today... and your welcome.. I am a bit confused. Are you saying we don't like chaep labor today? I do. All employers do. I see no changes in this regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 8 hours ago, Belly Bob said: Then what are we disagreeing about?< <for me it was the 'assumption' that 'nationalism' is inherently 'bad'...it is easily demonstrated as either 'good' or 'bad' for societies based on timing and implementation...aside from the fact that this movement (even while invoking the 'patriotic' feel) is not a nationalistically driven one. It may be that it's rarely in the best interest of a nation state to go to war, but that doesn't imply that its citizens don't often think otherwise. <<and vice versa...so what?..is this supposed to prove, disprove, or support anything? And I don't get your point about our own 50 states. I would say that the Federal Government can and does solve problems that might otherwise turn into tragedies of the commons. <<now we are getting somewhere...see below But maybe I'm missing your point. I'll have to watch the video another time. I'm lying in bed with my laptop next to my wife. <wireless earbuds are pretty darn cheap these days...when my wife watches tv in the room etc.(some of her shows🙄) they can help out a whole lot 👍 And the federal government has created problems as well as helping some... so what would you envision any 'world order' to look like??? Magic wand and all...anything you like... structure of government is?... maybe one totalitarianism set of rules and gov? maybe 50 'country states' headed by a 'federal' UN gov? you can only define 'good' and 'bad' as it relates to your own goals, and not point to others ideals and claim fault... I am debating application of theories realistically today, and you seem to be pointing to 'bad' ideologies, where in there seems to be not much relevance...even if for some nationalism = war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 43 minutes ago, noonereal said: I am a bit confused. Are you saying we don't like chaep labor today? I do. All employers do. I see no changes in this regard. that's because you live on a farm...our government has pushed for high tech, higher margin economy for decades...if you have not noticed. our industrial base is not even close to the % world production of just a few decades back... but aside from the fact that we have been trying to build a society that is NOT based on cheap labor, all you have to do is run the math... cost per each French citizen in tax dollars per 'cheap labor' immigrant.....is...(look it up)🙄 Then you might actually 'see something' on target, instead of making stuff up in your head and spewing it... a net loss is a net loss... no matter how you try and spin it.... or whatever you don't see.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 24 minutes ago, noonereal said: Why is this inherently not effective and how does it impede progress. (you may need define progress and get a different perspective in reply) BTW, I am NOT arguing. I am questioning. If you are gonna be insulted again just because someone asks you a question please do not reply. No reply will teach me to not bother in the future so either way it's all good. We either stop your angry posts and have a discussion or we ignore one another. I am being straight forward nothing else. So don't get all girl. Thanks Ok I will rephrase....'inherent' for most thinking and reasonable people....now I should be safe 🤣 IE. It is inherently easier to export technology, than it is to migrate entire cultures, family, people etc. Given that 'migration' does not 'expand' any manufacturing or build new factories (on your ever increasing $ concentrations) and with the limitations of land, your questions are fairly off base and a poor attempt at misdirection. OH BTW Miz Twistyskirt >>> 48 minutes ago, Troll said: because people don't want, or find cheap manual laborers and refugees, to be the most 'beneficial' to their economies...today. where let's say a couple hundred years ago they were just the right ticket for the farms and driving GDP etc. and more than just financially, some things are not always a net gain....even if they were in the past. If you think you can prove any net gain...we would all love to see how you would try to contort one.... ...today... and your welcome.. Show me anything resembling an insult.....putz (<hint: this is an insult) I'll wait for you to show the entire class how a migrant in France is a 'net gain' today...and will even let you butcher your own definitions...like show us even how it is 'culturally better' for an entre, and then give us the $ math.... Putz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 Liberals continue to be out of their minds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: Liberals continue to be out of their minds Check your utility bills...notice any 'societal benefits' charge??? LOL in NJ it will run the average household like $30 a month...just sayin Would bet 2 to 1 odds you are already paying for the phones... they must need more phones 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, Troll said: Check your utility bills...notice any 'societal benefits' charge??? LOL in NJ it will run the average household like $30 a month...just sayin Would bet 2 to 1 odds you are already paying for the phones... they must need more phones 🙄 California wants to tax your texts so illegals can have phone. They are out of their minds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: California wants to tax your texts so illegals can have phone. They are out of their minds. Maybe, but one must consider that Californians may not want this, even if the 'mind of California' thinks it in their best interest... Just sayin.... would not want to generalize and be blaming any of the 'wrong minds' of being cuckoo...🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Troll said: Maybe, but one must consider that Californians may not want this, even if the 'mind of California' thinks it in their best interest... Just sayin.... would not want to generalize and be blaming any of the 'wrong minds' of being cuckoo...🤔 This country esp in the liberal states have completely lost their minds. Who the hell wants to pay more to help illegals. You have the asshat in Chicago wants to put a 30 cent tax on gas like that isnt high enough to begin with. Now this asshat in California. Then you add the morons of NY and NJ. Everyday makes you wonder just a little bit more why were still living in this country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 12, 2018 Report Share Posted December 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: This country esp in the liberal states have completely lost their minds. Who the hell wants to pay more to help illegals. You have the asshat in Chicago wants to put a 30 cent tax on gas like that isnt high enough to begin with. Now this asshat in California. Then you add the morons of NY and NJ. Everyday makes you wonder just a little bit more why were still living in this country interesting tie in to our 'state', 'federal', 'country', and world conversation.... Isn't the whole idea of the states, to allow local governance more in accordance with the 'society' of constituents living within?? IE. and also note: you have the 'freedom' as in ability to 'migrate' to another state... Now "based on rule of law and governance", I would think that one should(?) have the ability to move to where like minded society governs themselves...but certainly not with carrying the 'right' to impose on others.... But strictly financial moves where those that migrate, do so not based on governance, but for strictly personal gain...would probably only get support, when the 'transaction' benefits both parties... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted December 13, 2018 Report Share Posted December 13, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 9:05 AM, Troll said: [...] you can only define 'good' and 'bad' as it relates to your own goals, and not point to others ideals and claim fault... I am debating application of theories realistically today, and you seem to be pointing to 'bad' ideologies, where in there seems to be not much relevance...even if for some nationalism = war. I certainly disagree with that. That's subjectivism, which I think is extremely implausible and vulnerable to obvious counterexamples. I was making fun of @Bormio's post that the 20th century taught us what happens when nation states don't act decisively in their own interest, which post I thought was funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted December 13, 2018 Report Share Posted December 13, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 8:24 AM, Troll said: or maybe you need to justify mass migration to concentrated portions of the planet.....based on wealth... which you so vigorously support. not an effective means of moving forward as a whole... impeding progress until every human on the planet is in lockstep, or thinking that every person and culture must be 'equal' by some arbitrary mark before moving forward is obtuse...and thinking that location or uprooting of families or even entire societies is beneficial is extremely myopic...and not nearly addressing any problems or causes... basically it is a cop out....at the expense of the successful..... that has no legitimate reasoning as justification. And you have displayed none here either...regardless of the 'nationalism bad' schtick...lol. That's not my view and I haven't argued for it. And I'm surprised you'd say that after all the time we spent talking about illegal immigration in a past thread. It's a bit of a shame, and it takes all the pleasure out of having the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio Posted December 14, 2018 Report Share Posted December 14, 2018 On 12/11/2018 at 10:24 PM, HSFBfan said: I guess I didnt know or understand. Thanks for the clarification But you also make it sound like its a bad thing It's cool. When I said you, I meant you as in everybody. I did not mean disrespect toward you personally. As I respect your opinions and you as a poster. If someone would invent a time machine and go back in time and change a major event like the outcome of the Civil War (by giving the South modern weapon technology info), it would help one party (the South) and hurt another party (the North) of that time. However, such a time leap would change our time line to such a degree that not one living person today would have been born. Sure, there would be people on Earth, but everyone of them would be different than the current inhabitants. Different city names, different street names, different countries, different corporations, different technologies, different sports .... and in a worst case scenario humans could have wiped each other out completely. Who knows what would have happened. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 14, 2018 Report Share Posted December 14, 2018 Just now, ohio said: It's cool. When I said you, I meant you as in everybody. I did not mean disrespect toward you personally. As I respect your opinions and you as a poster. If someone would invent a time machine and go back in time and change a major event like the outcome of the Civil War (by giving the South modern weapon technology info), it would help one party (the South) and hurt another party (the North) of that time. However, such a time leap would change our time line to such a degree that not one living person today would have been born. Sure, there would be people on Earth, but everyone of them would be different that the current inhabitants. Different city names, different street names, different countries, different corporations, different technologies, different sports .... and in a worst case scenario humans could have wiped each other out completely. Who knows what would have happened. Yep which is pretty cool to think of....if u like alternate history read the books by harry turtledove. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio Posted December 14, 2018 Report Share Posted December 14, 2018 Just now, HSFBfan said: Yep which is pretty cool to think of....if u like alternate history read the books by harry turtledove. Thanks, when I get a chance I just may read one of his books. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 14, 2018 Report Share Posted December 14, 2018 10 hours ago, ohio said: Thanks, when I get a chance I just may read one of his books. They are very good 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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