Best OOS records ever .

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

55 minutes ago, Wosinc said:

The 60s happened.

What happened in the 60s?

[eaglesinsider]

2 hours ago, TheMaximumHornetSting said:

I honestly wonder what happened to MA,CO and NY.... 

What caused the drop off... Back in the 20s-50s NY and MA used to be  on par with GA and FL but then... 

Something happened... 

The answer is probably demographics and year-round training.

Florida was the least-populated Southern state in 1940, 80 years later and it's the 3rd most populated state in the US. Once the post-war period hit and home A/C got cheap and practical, people realized they'd much rather live in warmer climates. At the same time the population of the Northern states has been shrinking as the heavy industries that dominated those states have closed or moved overseas and people weren't tied to those locations due to their jobs. Almost all the other Southern states are growing very fast as well.

A huge number of people also migrated to the more industrialized states during the Great Depression in the 1930s, which I'm sure helped bolster the football rosters of the Northern states and could be seen as a reverse effect to the trend from the 70s until today.

Throw in the fact that nobody, not even the NFL, did year round football workouts until after the 50s and it nullifies the advantage the South has, namely the weather in the Winter/Spring is conducive to working on football skills outdoors while it's still freezing cold up North. Once the Southern population started booming and year-round football training became commonplace, the inherent advantages of the South let them overtake the Northern states rapidly.

 

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

42 minutes ago, eaglesinsider said:

The answer is probably demographics and year-round training.

Florida was the least-populated Southern state in 1940, 80 years later and it's the 3rd most populated state in the US. Once the post-war period hit and home A/C got cheap and practical, people realized they'd much rather live in warmer climates. At the same time the population of the Northern states has been shrinking as the heavy industries that dominated those states have closed or moved overseas and people weren't tied to those locations due to their jobs. Almost all the other Southern states are growing very fast as well.

A huge number of people also migrated to the more industrialized states during the Great Depression in the 1930s, which I'm sure helped bolster the football rosters of the Northern states and could be seen as a reverse effect to the trend from the 70s until today.

Throw in the fact that nobody, not even the NFL, did year round football workouts until after the 50s and it nullifies the advantage the South has, namely the weather in the Winter/Spring is conducive to working on football skills outdoors while it's still freezing cold up North. Once the Southern population started booming and year-round football training became commonplace, the inherent advantages of the South let them overtake the Northern states rapidly.

 

Makes sense 

[MA Fan]

2 hours ago, eaglesinsider said:

A huge number of people also migrated to the more industrialized states during the Great Depression in the 1930s, which I'm sure helped bolster the football rosters of the Northern states and could be seen as a reverse effect to the trend from the 70s until today.

Certainly true for some northern states but it wouldn't have applied to MA...most of the industrial towns there were already in decline by 1930, it was very much built around "old industry" like textile mills and tanneries and turning whales into soap.

I wouldn't draw many conclusions from a limited number of postseason OOS games in the old days, but I feel like there was something a little different about the makeup of those FL and GA teams relative to now...

[Nolebull813]

6 hours ago, MA Fan said:

Certainly true for some northern states but it wouldn't have applied to MA...most of the industrial towns there were already in decline by 1930, it was very much built around "old industry" like textile mills and tanneries and turning whales into soap.

I wouldn't draw many conclusions from a limited number of postseason OOS games in the old days, but I feel like there was something a little different about the makeup of those FL and GA teams relative to now...

The makeup was all white teams because it was all before integration. 

I wonder if those Northern teams were all white back in the 30’s and 40’s. I know teams from the South back in the day would sometimes have issues if they had colored players. 

[Wosinc]

13 hours ago, eaglesinsider said:

The answer is probably demographics and year-round training.

Florida was the least-populated Southern state in 1940, 80 years later and it's the 3rd most populated state in the US. Once the post-war period hit and home A/C got cheap and practical, people realized they'd much rather live in warmer climates. At the same time the population of the Northern states has been shrinking as the heavy industries that dominated those states have closed or moved overseas and people weren't tied to those locations due to their jobs. Almost all the other Southern states are growing very fast as well.

A huge number of people also migrated to the more industrialized states during the Great Depression in the 1930s, which I'm sure helped bolster the football rosters of the Northern states and could be seen as a reverse effect to the trend from the 70s until today.

Throw in the fact that nobody, not even the NFL, did year round football workouts until after the 50s and it nullifies the advantage the South has, namely the weather in the Winter/Spring is conducive to working on football skills outdoors while it's still freezing cold up North. Once the Southern population started booming and year-round football training became commonplace, the inherent advantages of the South let them overtake the Northern states rapidly.

 

This, but I was too lazy to type it.

The area where I grew up was once one of the largest centers of manufacturing of fine machinery and metal-working tools such as taps, dies, and drills in the world.

Now the towns are, if not ghost towns, certainly on life support.

They used to regularly field teams with rosters of 40 to 50.  Not big by Allen TX standards, for sure, but pretty good for towns with populations  of 10,000 to 20,00.

Now several towns have to pool players just to get the minimum number of players to field a team.  And I’m talking about 14 to 18 players.

They play hard but lack of depth is a killer.  It’s depressing to see what has happened.

 

[Wosinc]

15 hours ago, TheMaximumHornetSting said:

What happened in the 60s?

In part, but certainly not the whole problem:

Drugs, hippies, and a general breakdown of respect for basic social decency.

Easier to screw off than to bust your ass on a football field.

[Wosinc]

4 hours ago, Nolebull813 said:

The makeup was all white teams because it was all before integration. 

I wonder if those Northern teams were all white back in the 30’s and 40’s. I know teams from the South back in the day would sometimes have issues if they had colored players. 

They were most definitely not all white.

Several games were cancelled or simply not scheduled because the Southern teams would not, or were not allowed to, step on the field against a black player.

Race issues were in large part why the Peanut Bowl games between Georgia and Western Mass  were discontinued.  The Northern teams would not exclude their black teammates.

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

On 4/11/2019 at 9:59 AM, maxchoboian said:

Hmm, surprising you remember the school from Colorado but not the GA school, however, it does sort of make sense in that...

There's lots of history at East. It's been around since the late 1800s, and remains the most sought after high school for those living within the Denver city limits. Known primarily for academics, basketball, and the arts, some of East's alumni include Philip Bailey, Larry Dunn, and Andrew Woolfolk of Earth, Wind, and Fire fame; actor Don Cheadle; Apollo 13 astronaut Jack Swigert; Jackie Brown actress Pam Grier; former NBA all-star Joe Barry Carroll; Silicon Valley actor TJ Miller; current Memphis Grizzlies coach JB Bickerstaff; former First Lady Mamie Eisenhower; singer Judy Collins; rock band Flobots creator Jamie "Jonny 5" Laurie; silent movie star Douglas Fairbanks; etc.

Based on this, it's probably safe to say they came away with the win in football against that long-forgotten GA school.

Home of the Denver East Angels...

Excluding East vs Tech here's all the GA vs CO games: (That I know of I'm still looking) 

Pomona 14 @ Glynn Academy 33 

Thunder Ridge 19 @ Tift County 55 

Valor Christian 28 @ Greater Atlanta Christian 22

 

 

 

 

[Nolebull813]

6 hours ago, TheMaximumHornetSting said:

Excluding East vs Tech here's all the GA vs CO games: (That I know of I'm still looking) 

Pomona 14 @ Glynn Academy 33 

Thunder Ridge 19 @ Tift County 55 

Valor Christian 28 @ Greater Atlanta Christian 22

 

 

 

 

I think Valor got in that ass like a wedgie twice against GAC

[SJR89]

On 4/10/2019 at 5:47 PM, Nolebull813 said:

Records against each state 

vs Georgia 36-12-4

vs Tennessee 11-7-2

vs North Carolina 9-3

vs Alabama 7-0

vs South Carolina 5-3

vs Kentucky 5-2

vs Massachusetts 3-1

vs Maryland/DC 3-0

vs Virginia 2-0

vs Ohio 2-0

vs Illinois 1-1-1

vs Arkansas 1-0

vs Missouri 1-0

vs Iowa 1-0

vs Mississippi 1-0

vs Rhode Island 1-0

vs Pennsylvania 1-1

vs Connecticut 1-1

vs New York 1-1

vs New Jersey 0-1

the loss to New Jersey   (Garfield  )  in 1939 was for the National Championship

https://www.app.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2018/09/19/nj-football-garfield-1939-national-championship-recalled-book/1327792002/

[Nolebull813]

54 minutes ago, SJR89 said:

the loss to New Jersey   (Garfield  )  in 1939 was for the National Championship

https://www.app.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2018/09/19/nj-football-garfield-1939-national-championship-recalled-book/1327792002/

Yeah I read that too. Pretty cool. I believe Miami High went on to win 4 National Titles afterwards. 

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

4 hours ago, SJR89 said:

the loss to New Jersey   (Garfield  )  in 1939 was for the National Championship

https://www.app.com/story/sports/high-school/football/2018/09/19/nj-football-garfield-1939-national-championship-recalled-book/1327792002/

Miami HS had a damn good team back in the day... 

Theres a ton of Miami vs Savannah games... 

I'm disappointed but not surprised that Savannah HS is 1-9 vs Miami HS... 

 

[Nolebull813]

9 minutes ago, TheMaximumHornetSting said:

Miami HS had a damn good team back in the day... 

Theres a ton of Miami vs Savannah games... 

I'm disappointed but not surprised that Savannah HS is 1-9 vs Miami HS... 

 

Miami has some battles with the best teams from Georgia at the time. Boys High, Tech, Lanier, and Savannah were all the big dogs before 1960

[TheMaximumHornetSting]

7 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

Miami has some battles with the best teams from Georgia at the time. Boys High, Tech, Lanier, and Savannah were all the big dogs before 1960

All of which are defunct... 

Except Savannah HS... 

Which may as well be... 

 

[Las Vegas_JC]

On 4/13/2019 at 12:03 PM, Drummer61 said:

Bosco OOS since 1958 is 37- 18-1 with an average score of 24- 15...

http://donboscofootballhistory.com/out-of-state-history/

Great history. Great program!

Bosco has travelled 20 times OOS.

And have played in 11 different states.

I haven’t done the research on which of these games could have been considered “risk games.” But undoubtedly many of them were. 

 

 

[Las Vegas_JC]

The big schools from Ohio have the most impressive resume of OOS wins. I believe that the OHSAA currently bans all member schools from traveling beyond a non bordering state. So these records mainly consist of games vs teams from MI, IN, KY, WV and PA. Also included are games from the Herbstreit classic (RIP). The Herbstreit classic started in 2005 I believe. The recorded OOS wins don’t mean that they were risk games. But for me it is proof that OH plays the best brand of football in the Midwest. 

 

Ohio OOS record from 2004-2018 (source Maxpreps)

Colerain          16-1

Washington   16-2

Steubenville  69-5

St Edward      43-5

La Salle          30-9

Elder               30-9

St Ignatius     35-9

Moeller         33-10

St Xavier       39-14

 

 

 

[Las Vegas_JC]

Dematha has a record of 90-17 vs OOS teams since 2004. And have played teams from 9 states in that time span. DC, VA, DE, PA, NJ, OH, FL, NC and NV. On the surface this seems like an amazing record because the Stags are a national power. But 60 of those wins are vs DC teams. Except for the recent growth of St John’s (2017 & 2018) this state never before had a national power team.

@NicholasMalibu @BigDropplease correct me if I’m wrong about DC.

Another 19 OOS wins are vs Bishop O’Connell and Paul VI from VA. Two horrible programs. So the bottom line is that their OOS record is inflated with easy wins. I’m not trying to bash Dematha because they do have my respect as a program that goes out to find the best competition. I’m using their OOS record as an example of why we should not glamorize random OOS games. 

 

Risk Games > OOS games

https://www.maxpreps.com/local/team/records/game_history.aspx?gendersport=boys,football&schoolid=f0d82e69-dabf-44e0-a131-32581fac97dc

[BigDrop]

DeMatha 38 Miami Central 7. (USA Today #2 at the time)

DeMatha beat AHP at AHP.

Most significant loss came in 1980 to Gerry Faust’s Moeller (national champion) 35-0.  DM’s only loss of the year.

[NicholasMalibu]

3 hours ago, Las Vegas_JC said:

Dematha has a record of 90-17 vs OOS teams since 2004. And have played teams from 9 states in that time span. DC, VA, DE, PA, NJ, OH, FL, NC and NV. On the surface this seems like an amazing record because the Stags are a national power. But 60 of those wins are vs DC teams. Except for the recent growth of St John’s (2017 & 2018) this state never before had a national power team.

@NicholasMalibu @BigDropplease correct me if I’m wrong about DC.

Another 19 OOS wins are vs Bishop O’Connell and Paul VI from VA. Two horrible programs. So the bottom line is that their OOS record is inflated with easy wins. I’m not trying to bash Dematha because they do have my respect as a program that goes out to find the best competition. I’m using their OOS record as an example of why we should not glamorize random OOS games. 

 

Risk Games > OOS games

https://www.maxpreps.com/local/team/records/game_history.aspx?gendersport=boys,football&schoolid=f0d82e69-dabf-44e0-a131-32581fac97dc

I agree. The WCAC is composed of teams from Maryland, DC and Virginia. This league/area is a rare situation. DeMatha is located a couple miles away from the three DC schools, Gonzaga, SJC and Carroll. I’ve actually went for runs between the schools. DeMatha is located 15 miles away from the two Virginia schools. All of these schools have students from MD, DC and VA. I hate the term, but the “DMV” is the area that includes DC, MD, and Northern VA. I can’t think of another area in the country beside maybe New England boarding schools where crossing state lines is the norm for league play. For that reason I’d take any WCAC school out of the OOS record conversation. 

Best OOS wins for DeMatha are Miami Central, Brockton and AHP. 

Worst losses are SJR and STA. 

As for the area, Good Counsel(WCAC) has a few national top 10 teams in the last 20 years. DeMatha would always play nationally ranked Gilman(MIAA-Baltimore) teams also. So the MD/DC area has had a few other “national powers” than DeMatha. 

[BigDrop]

1 hour ago, NicholasMalibu said:

I agree. The WCAC is composed of teams from Maryland, DC and Virginia. This league/area is a rare situation. DeMatha is located a couple miles away from the three DC schools, Gonzaga, SJC and Carroll. I’ve actually went for runs between the schools. DeMatha is located 15 miles away from the two Virginia schools. All of these schools have students from MD, DC and VA. I hate the term, but the “DMV” is the area that includes DC, MD, and Northern VA. I can’t think of another area in the country beside maybe New England boarding schools where crossing state lines is the norm for league play. For that reason I’d take any WCAC school out of the OOS record conversation. 

Best OOS wins for DeMatha are Miami Central, Brockton and AHP. 

Worst losses are SJR and STA. 

As for the area, Good Counsel(WCAC) has a few national top 10 teams in the last 20 years. DeMatha would always play nationally ranked Gilman(MIAA-Baltimore) teams also. So the MD/DC area has had a few other “national powers” than DeMatha. 

Forgot about the Brockton game.  DeMatha won at Brockton when they were ranked in the top five in USA Today.  (They played Brockton two years in a row.) There was also a significant victory over Chambersburg, PA who were preseason PA #1 in 4A that year.  

[Coletrain06]

On 4/17/2019 at 4:32 PM, Las Vegas_JC said:

The big schools from Ohio have the most impressive resume of OOS wins. I believe that the OHSAA currently bans all member schools from traveling beyond a non bordering state. So these records mainly consist of games vs teams from MI, IN, KY, WV and PA. Also included are games from the Herbstreit classic (RIP). The Herbstreit classic started in 2005 I believe. The recorded OOS wins don’t mean that they were risk games. But for me it is proof that OH plays the best brand of football in the Midwest. 

 

Ohio OOS record from 2004-2018 (source Maxpreps)

Colerain          16-1

Washington   16-2

Steubenville  69-5

St Edward      43-5

La Salle          30-9

Elder               30-9

St Ignatius     35-9

Moeller         33-10

St Xavier       39-14

 

 

 

Pick Central is 10-0. Not taking out Murderers row, but some solid teams: Cass Tech MI, Orange Lutheran CA, Oscar Smith VA, Indy Cathedral IN, Goose Creek SC, Phillips IL, and some Canadians. 

Ohio schools are permitted to travel to a non bordering state (1) time per season provided they do not miss any school time. 

[NicholasMalibu]

1 hour ago, Coletrain06 said:

Pick Central is 10-0. Not taking out Murderers row, but some solid teams: Cass Tech MI, Orange Lutheran CA, Oscar Smith VA, Indy Cathedral IN, Goose Creek SC, Phillips IL, and some Canadians. 

Ohio schools are permitted to travel to a non bordering state (1) time per season provided they do not miss any school time. 

Sorry for the side bar, but how does St. Iggy’s look for 2019? I don’t see many Ohio threads on here I can post on to ask. 

[Las Vegas_JC]

20 hours ago, NicholasMalibu said:

I agree. The WCAC is composed of teams from Maryland, DC and Virginia. This league/area is a rare situation. DeMatha is located a couple miles away from the three DC schools, Gonzaga, SJC and Carroll. I’ve actually went for runs between the schools. DeMatha is located 15 miles away from the two Virginia schools. All of these schools have students from MD, DC and VA. I hate the term, but the “DMV” is the area that includes DC, MD, and Northern VA. I can’t think of another area in the country beside maybe New England boarding schools where crossing state lines is the norm for league play. For that reason I’d take any WCAC school out of the OOS record conversation. 

Best OOS wins for DeMatha are Miami Central, Brockton and AHP. 

Worst losses are SJR and STA. 

As for the area, Good Counsel(WCAC) has a few national top 10 teams in the last 20 years. DeMatha would always play nationally ranked Gilman(MIAA-Baltimore) teams also. So the MD/DC area has had a few other “national powers” than DeMatha. 

Phoebus (VA), Oscar Smith (VA), Central (FL), AHP (FL),  STA (FL), SJR (NJ), St Xavier (OH), Gorman (NV), etc.The Stags are always willing to go out and schedule the best teams that they can find. That’s respectable. 

[BigDrop]

1 hour ago, Las Vegas_JC said:

Phoebus (VA), Oscar Smith (VA), Central (FL), AHP (FL),  STA (FL), SJR (NJ), St Xavier (OH), Gorman (NV), etc.The Stags are always willing to go out and schedule the best teams that they can find. That’s respectable. 

They also agreed to play Pittsburgh North Hills when they were on top along with Kansas City Rockhurst (9/11 happened five days before the game) and, yes, De La Salle when their 151 game winning streak was still active.  CA would not allow the proposed after season game.  Bill McGregor was willing to take on all comers at a time (80’s, 90’s) when OOS games were a rarity. His willingness is what allowed the two Brockton games.  One of those years Brockton was preseason USA Today #1.  I must also mention the ‘80 Gerry Faust Moeller game:  DeMatha took it at a time when Moeller was recognized by everyone as the national standard.  From ‘76 to ‘82 Moeller played the best in America including Miami Christopher Columbus, Servite (Steve Beuerlein), Brother Rice, Hampton Bethel (VA state division 5 champion that year) and others.  All were loaded, yet Moeller was in its own league.  Faust parlayed his success and fanatical enthusiasm into becoming Notre Dame’s head coach:  straight out of Moeller.

I go back more than 50 years:  DeMatha was willing to play everyone and, yes, this included a game in Sacramento in the late ‘70’s (‘78?) that they won!

DeMatha was among the first to travel, to play everyone.  A bi coastal game in the ‘70’s, US #1 in ‘80 and in ‘90-all were among the then unheard of OOS games.

DeMatha ended Kareem’s (Lee Alcindor) Power Memorial 71 game winning streak.  They tried to have s chance to do the same to Coach Lad’s DLS.