mje44 Posted May 14, 2019 Report Share Posted May 14, 2019 35 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Were talking HS kids actually, and as you say if PAC12 schools arent developing athletes, then that means they aren’t arriving developed which was my point on star ratings. They aren’t the end all be all of evaluating HS talent and teams. Umm no we were talking about the Pac 12?? Not following your logic. High school players aren't suppose to show up at colleges "developed". Coaching at the HS level vs college isn't even in the same stratosphere. Players find schools where they think they will be developed. Hence why players like De'Gabriel Floyd, Collin Johnson, & Bru are going to schools like Texas & not the Pac 12. But regardless, for all the trash you just threw on the Pac 12 & Cali we have: A) More NFL players from Cali than Texas by almost 40 players. B) Pac 12 has 210 NFL players vs Big 10 has 123 NFL players (Remember your Tx=Big12 sourcing argument? I do) I bring up the NFL because it is in fact the end all be all of evaluating talent....period Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted May 14, 2019 Report Share Posted May 14, 2019 45 minutes ago, mje44 said: I'm not sitting here trashing Florida or Texas talent. Clearly the sport is bigger down South. I'd be dumb not to admit that. It's just ignorance to call out California talent based on the performance of the Pac12. Hence my argument. I do agree that the performance of the college level in the pac12 shouldn't hurt the perception of CA high school football Just like the struggles of the college teams in FL and TX shouldn't affect the view of high school football in those states Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mje44 Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, Columbiafan said: I do agree that the performance of the college level in the pac12 shouldn't hurt the perception of CA high school football Just like the struggles of the college teams in FL and TX shouldn't affect the view of high school football in those states Yes I 100% agree. Being a USC fan drives me nuts. Guys like Robert Woods and JuJu are labeled as “over-hyped” at while at SC because they were 5stars & so they get drafted mid rounds. A couple years later once they are coached up & they quietly become some of the top WRs in the league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 56 minutes ago, mje44 said: Umm no we were talking about the Pac 12?? Not following your logic. High school players aren't suppose to show up at colleges "developed". Coaching at the HS level vs college isn't even in the same stratosphere. Players find schools where they think they will be developed. Hence why players like De'Gabriel Floyd, Collin Johnson, & Bru are going to schools like Texas & not the Pac 12. But regardless, for all the trash you just threw on the Pac 12 & Cali we have: A) More NFL players from Cali than Texas by almost 40 players. B) Pac 12 has 210 NFL players vs Big 10 has 123 NFL players (Remember your Tx=Big12 sourcing argument? I do) I bring up the NFL because it is in fact the end all be all of evaluating talent....period How are you going to tell me what I was talking about when I was the one who started the debate!! My whole point is star ratings aren’t the end all be all and that Cali talent going to the PAC12 CURRENTLY is not proving it on the field. Hell, even Stanford is recruiting deep into Texas. Go back and read the whole thing,I’m no gonna rehash for someone who jumped in the middle of the convo. In the past several years Cali has fallen badly in sending players to the league. Who cares about 10 yr veterans and where they came from. I have not seen anything that shows CA has 40 more players in the NFL than TX Show the past 5 year trend and who is sending more to the NFL, Cali or Tx? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mje44 Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, Horsefly said: How are you going to tell me what I was talking about when I was the one who started the debate!! My whole point is star ratings aren’t the end all be all and that Cali talent going to the PAC12 CURRENTLY is not proving it on the field. Hell, even Stanford is recruiting deep into Texas. Go back and read the whole thing,I’m no gonna rehash for someone who jumped in the middle of the convo. In the past several years Cali has fallen badly in sending players to the league. Who cares about 10 yr veterans and where they came from. Show the past 5 year trend and who is sending more to the NFL, Cali or Tx? 2019- 27 Texas, 21 Cali 2018- 27 Texas, 27 Cali 2017- 24 Texas, 25 Cali 2016- 32 Texas, 26 Cali 2015- 25 Texas, 37 Cali Average NFL career is 3.3 years so that whole “10year veteran” argument is dumb Also in 2017 Texas had more NFL players than Cali, yet today we outnumber you by double digits Facts don’t care about your feelings bud. Tell me again how Cali has been on the downfall the past 5 years?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mje44 Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 22 minutes ago, Horsefly said: How are you going to tell me what I was talking about when I was the one who started the debate!! My whole point is star ratings aren’t the end all be all and that Cali talent going to the PAC12 CURRENTLY is not proving it on the field. Hell, even Stanford is recruiting deep into Texas. Go back and read the whole thing,I’m no gonna rehash for someone who jumped in the middle of the convo. In the past several years Cali has fallen badly in sending players to the league. Who cares about 10 yr veterans and where they came from. I have not seen anything that shows CA has 40 more players in the NFL than TX Show the past 5 year trend and who is sending more to the NFL, Cali or Tx? https://www.pro-football-reference.com/friv/birthplaces.htm comes from NFL database which is in real time. Look at Texas vs Cali in terms of active players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 44 minutes ago, mje44 said: 2019- 27 Texas, 21 Cali 2018- 27 Texas, 27 Cali 2017- 24 Texas, 25 Cali 2016- 32 Texas, 26 Cali 2015- 25 Texas, 37 Cali Average NFL career is 3.3 years so that whole “10year veteran” argument is dumb Also in 2017 Texas had more NFL players than Cali, yet today we outnumber you by double digits Facts don’t care about your feelings bud. Tell me again how Cali has been on the downfall the past 5 years?? Geez man look at your numbers! Cali has dropped since 2015, texas has been consistent. I'd say CA is trending down. Why wont you post the whole story instead of cherry picking what fits your narrative. The NFL states the avg career is 6 years, the players assoc says is 3.3 and for all pro bowl players its longer than 6 now let's get back to college, tell me what CA programs are tearing it up where CA kids are heavily rostered? Is Fresno st as good as it gets with all that talent from Cali? surely that can't be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 The difference between California and Florida (And the south in general) is in production of big guys who are really athletic. That shows up primarily in the defensive front seven. So, it's not a coincidence that that area is where the SEC schools tend to shine above the others. Very rarely do you see teams outside the South with great front sevens. When you do, you frequently see players from the South on those teams. USC has had a couple, Ohio State and Michigan as well. It's just a matter of luck IMO. Doesn't mean the players are better coached or anything. Just means there are more athletic big guys around those parts to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 *Because California also produces more QBs, the gap is much less than what it may have seemed from my description above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
954gator Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, mje44 said: 2019- 27 Texas, 21 Cali 2018- 27 Texas, 27 Cali 2017- 24 Texas, 25 Cali 2016- 32 Texas, 26 Cali 2015- 25 Texas, 37 Cali Average NFL career is 3.3 years so that whole “10year veteran” argument is dumb Also in 2017 Texas had more NFL players than Cali, yet today we outnumber you by double digits Facts don’t care about your feelings bud. Tell me again how Cali has been on the downfall the past 5 years?? in 2015 Cali had 26 same as Texas. You are thinking 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mje44 Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 53 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Geez man look at your numbers! Cali has dropped since 2015, texas has been consistent. I'd say CA is trending down. Why wont you post the whole story instead of cherry picking what fits your narrative. The NFL states the avg career is 6 years, the players assoc says is 3.3 and for all pro bowl players its longer than 6 now let's get back to college, tell me what CA programs are tearing it up where CA kids are heavily rostered? Is Fresno st as good as it gets with all that talent from Cali? surely that can't be the case. Look at the numbers?? Find me statistician on this planet that would actually consider that a down trend. 2015 & 2019 were good & bad anomalies respectively, which literally every state has. 2015 was one of the best years a state has ever had in the draft. If your really basing it of 2019 than your a victim of recency bias. You said show me the 5 year trend & I did. Not saying its alot, but it definitely I find it hard to believe that California, who has significantly widened its margin of NFL players vs Texas in the past 2 years, has "fallen badley" as you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mje44 Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, 954gator said: in 2015 Cali had 26 same as Texas. You are thinking 2014. you are right I apologize. Thank you for fact checking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
954gator Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 minute ago, mje44 said: you are right I apologize. Thank you for fact checking. Only knew because I had a thread on it not too long ago haha. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, mje44 said: Look at the numbers?? Find me statistician on this planet that would actually consider that a down trend. 2015 & 2019 were good & bad anomalies respectively, which literally every state has. 2015 was one of the best years a state has ever had in the draft. If your really basing it of 2019 than your a victim of recency bias. You said show me the 5 year trend & I did. Not saying its alot, but it definitely I find it hard to believe that California, who has significantly widened its margin of NFL players vs Texas in the past 2 years, has "fallen badley" as you say. You posted a link that showed birthplaces, a player could be born in one state and move before he's 1 and live the rest of his childhood in the relocated state but his birthplace gets the credit. Not a reliable stat. Anyways, i wouldn't be surprised if GA surpasses CA as a big3 in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mje44 Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 58 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Geez man look at your numbers! Cali has dropped since 2015, texas has been consistent. I'd say CA is trending down. Why wont you post the whole story instead of cherry picking what fits your narrative. The NFL states the avg career is 6 years, the players assoc says is 3.3 and for all pro bowl players its longer than 6 now let's get back to college, tell me what CA programs are tearing it up where CA kids are heavily rostered? Is Fresno st as good as it gets with all that talent from Cali? surely that can't be the case. Sure I'll give you the 3.3 vs 6 years. Still don't see what that has to do with anything. I find it ironic you tell me to not "cherry pick to fit my narrative" when you literally tried to make a BS point about Bru McCoy not playing well in a SPRING GAME when he is coming back from injury & then somehow trying to equate that to Cali talent being overrated. Did you honestly forget how many great Big 12 players Cali has produced for you over the years?? Collin Johnson? Joe Mixon? Kenny Stills? Tony Jefferson? Radley Hiles? Tre Watson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mje44 Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Horsefly said: You posted a link that showed birthplaces, a player could be born in one state and move before he's 1 and live the rest of his childhood in the relocated state but his birthplace gets the credit. Not a reliable stat. Anyways, i wouldn't be surprised if GA surpasses CA as a big3 in a few years. what a load of crap. Hope you don't hurt your shoulder with that reach. Your 3rd grade logic isn't worth my time anymore. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, mje44 said: Sure I'll give you the 3.3 vs 6 years. Still don't see what that has to do with anything. I find it ironic you tell me to not "cherry pick to fit my narrative" when you literally tried to make a BS point about Bru McCoy not playing well in a SPRING GAME when he is coming back from injury & then somehow trying to equate that to Cali talent being overrated. Did you honestly forget how many great Big 12 players Cali has produced for you over the years?? Collin Johnson? Joe Mixon? Kenny Stills? Tony Jefferson? Radley Hiles? Tre Watson? We’ll see what Bru does going forward. USC had a heck of a ‘18 class with JT Daniels, St Brown and a few others. How did they do? Oh nvm. You and I both know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, mje44 said: what a load of crap. Hope you don't hurt your shoulder with that reach. Your 3rd grade logic isn't worth my time anymore. Cheers! sorry if your stats have obvious flaws. But of course it’s the one that shows Cali in the best light. Cheers and enjoy the PAC 12 with all that Cali talent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
954gator Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 17 minutes ago, Horsefly said: You posted a link that showed birthplaces, a player could be born in one state and move before he's 1 and live the rest of his childhood in the relocated state but his birthplace gets the credit. Not a reliable stat. Anyways, i wouldn't be surprised if GA surpasses CA as a big3 in a few years. Nah Georgia just doesn't have the raw numbers IMO. Might have more drafted in some classes, but... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mje44 Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 42 minutes ago, badrouter said: The difference between California and Florida (And the south in general) is in production of big guys who are really athletic. That shows up primarily in the defensive front seven. So, it's not a coincidence that that area is where the SEC schools tend to shine above the others. Very rarely do you see teams outside the South with great front sevens. When you do, you frequently see players from the South on those teams. USC has had a couple, Ohio State and Michigan as well. It's just a matter of luck IMO. Doesn't mean the players are better coached or anything. Just means there are more athletic big guys around those parts to begin with. No doubt. I would disagree about DE's & LB's in Cali, as we produce pretty well. But interior DL & O-Line in genenral, Cali is just not on par. But then again the rest of the country really isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ararar Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 22 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Anyways, i wouldn't be surprised if GA surpasses CA as a big3 in a few years. Georgia guy been saying this for 6-7 years but they just keep falling farther behind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mje44 Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, 954gator said: Nah Georgia just doesn't have the raw numbers IMO. Might have more drafted in some classes, but... He's not too big on facts. I'm sure he thinks Alaska passed Cali in 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 minute ago, mje44 said: He's not too big on facts. I'm sure he thinks Alaska passed Cali in 2019 But you were the one posting errors and passing it off as ‘15 data when it was ‘14. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mje44 Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 Just now, Horsefly said: But you were the one posting errors and passing it off as ‘15 data when it was ‘14. 😂 Yeah I made a mistake. It happens. I literally admitted that on a previous comment Feel free to fact check everything I said. I'll admit when I'm wrong, unlike you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted May 15, 2019 Report Share Posted May 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, mje44 said: Yeah I made a mistake. It happens. I literally admitted that on a previous comment Feel free to fact check everything I said. I'll admit when I'm wrong, unlike you Nah, it’s not that serious to double check your work. I’ll forget this convo by tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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