World Citizen Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, DevilDog said: Having served under both I came to believe there are not much differences in these Party's. Of course there are differences on issues I have and I'm more Fiscal Conservative and liberal Socially but I'm not extreme in either. Here is an example sir. Now tell me which one I should lean on and I apply extraordinary circumstances when needed. I am anti abortion and anti death penalty. Basically I value all human life. Yet these two parties are hypocrites. They both support murder as long as they justify it as something else. Yet I support abortion to save a life or due to some heinous sexual acts as well as corporal punishment in extreme cases. Did Obama get rid of the Patriot act or enhance it? Same as Bush he expanded. They grab an issue to excite the masses. Democrats = Health ❤. Republicans = immigration. They all benefit on each yet make a bunch of noise and do nothing. Really dissect just those two issues. So yes Capitalism requires 1 dog to eat another and if you don't come to the table famished you lose. I Respect Your Service sir. I remember we discussed Germany before and the Fraulein's. 🤣 Both party's exploit black voters. So to win you must exploit both Parties. Aka Colin Powell and Michael Steele and now Candance Owens and Those other 2 ladies. Cool. Appreciate your response. Curiosity has been satisfied. I would say that health care is very important to everybody, right or left. Immigration has been used as a scare tactic with a compliment of lies. But I do get what you are saying. I just am having difficulty maintaining my big picture outlook and get caught up in the smaller pictures. It has been keeping me off balance and I do not like it. Capitalism is against what I choose to believe in if one dog has to eat the other. I prefer both dogs work to make sure the other gets what they want and need. Win win is how I roll. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 hour ago, World Citizen said: @Horsefly AND @DevilDog I can appreciate being non partisan and all that but does anything other than the economy give you reason to feel one way or the other on which party is more aligned with your thinking? Social issues, health care, how our elected votes on issues, etc. As an example: Being that I served in the military, esp during the cold war, the fact that many Trump supporters would rather have Russian's be in this country than those who do not support Trump, it is one (out of many) of those things that does not sit right with me. Just curious. I believe each person should have the right n opportunity to define life for themselves and be allowed to achieve that happiness. As such, laws should be less restrictive as possible. Personally though I’m a fiscal conservative . I don’t care for trump all that much. IMO he mocks the military with the degrading of MCain, cheap talk about POWs, etc. that stuff actually pisses me off. Especially considering he excused his way out of Nam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCalRuss Posted June 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 2 hours ago, World Citizen said: Cool. Appreciate your response. Curiosity has been satisfied. I would say that health care is very important to everybody, right or left. Immigration has been used as a scare tactic with a compliment of lies. But I do get what you are saying. I just am having difficulty maintaining my big picture outlook and get caught up in the smaller pictures. It has been keeping me off balance and I do not like it. Capitalism is against what I choose to believe in if one dog has to eat the other. I prefer both dogs work to make sure the other gets what they want and need. Win win is how I roll. Lol Being that you live in California, what part of immigration is a scare tactic and what lies? I don’t need to post the videos from all major demoRats talking about how important border security is.... I’m sure you seen them all. Remember the standing ovations demoRats got when talking about border security? And they actually used words like illegal aliens... Were they lying and using scare tactics also? This is a huge issue that a lot try to sweep under the rug. Especially in California as illegals will be getting free health are now. Total bs. Working legal Americans pay out hundreds to thousands dollars a month for health care , an illegal can sneak across the border and get free health care. Not only do those legal working Americans pay health care, they then have to pay hundreds to thousands of dollars in deductibles and medications. As DD posted the other day, majority of Americans have no saving for these expenses. 89% of Border patrol agents tell us the “crisis” or emergency at the border is real according to poll of 600 agents. Where are the lies? An estimated 11-30 million illegals in this country, that’s a huge problem. Add in the homeless, housing and disease outbreak crisis in California and we just don’t have the resources or money for it imo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted June 11, 2019 Report Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Horsefly said: I believe each person should have the right n opportunity to define life for themselves and be allowed to achieve that happiness. As such, laws should be less restrictive as possible. Personally though I’m a fiscal conservative . I don’t care for trump all that much. IMO he mocks the military with the degrading of MCain, cheap talk about POWs, etc. that stuff actually pisses me off. Especially considering he excused his way out of Nam. Were supposed to have limited government and we all have the opportunity to pursue happiness whatever that maybe. Unfortunately at the same time this country doesnt necessary allow much time to pursue happiness when we work as much as we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 1 hour ago, HSFBfan said: Were supposed to have limited government and we all have the opportunity to pursue happiness whatever that maybe. Unfortunately at the same time this country doesnt necessary allow much time to pursue happiness when we work as much as we do. I’m talking pursue happiness from a legal stand point. The gov doesn’t need to legislate who can and cannot marry as an example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 28 minutes ago, Horsefly said: I’m talking pursue happiness from a legal stand point. The gov doesn’t need to legislate who can and cannot marry as an example. Well that's a point of view issue. Since we are a judeo-Christian nation and both religions denounce homosexuality than us as a nation are going against the values of this country based upon the founders. The Founding Fathers of these United States would be incredulous, incensed, and outraged. They understood that acceptance of homosexuality would undermine and erode the moral foundations of civilization. Sodomy, the longtime historical term for same-sex relations, was a capital crime under British common law. Sir William Blackstone, British attorney, jurist, law professor, and political philosopher, authored his monumental Commentaries on the Laws of England from 1765-1769. These commentaries became the premiere legal source admired and used by America’s Founding Fathers. In Book the Fourth, Chapter the Fifteenth, “Of Offences https://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=7&article=1126 More quotes with one from George Washington himself https://www.usa.church/founding-fathers-quotes-about-homosexual-sin/ It is 2019 and we have lost and/or losing pretty much everything our founding fathers set us up with and us as citizens are not following the whole when the government stops working for we the people it is time to overthrow them. So yes I do believe it is up to the government to see who can and cannot marry based upon our founding fathers and this wonderful country that they fought and set up for us. And now look today teachers are being forced to teach this way of life to impressionable kids. Have posters up in schools that say being gay is ok. This should be considered child abuse. These teachers are teaching this crap and leaving out events such as the holocaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: Well that's a point of view issue. Since we are a judeo-Christian nation and both religions denounce homosexuality than us as a nation are going against the values of this country based upon the founders. The Founding Fathers of these United States would be incredulous, incensed, and outraged. They understood that acceptance of homosexuality would undermine and erode the moral foundations of civilization. Sodomy, the longtime historical term for same-sex relations, was a capital crime under British common law. Sir William Blackstone, British attorney, jurist, law professor, and political philosopher, authored his monumental Commentaries on the Laws of England from 1765-1769. These commentaries became the premiere legal source admired and used by America’s Founding Fathers. In Book the Fourth, Chapter the Fifteenth, “Of Offences https://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=7&article=1126 More quotes with one from George Washington himself https://www.usa.church/founding-fathers-quotes-about-homosexual-sin/ It is 2019 and we have lost and/or losing pretty much everything our founding fathers set us up with and us as citizens are not following the whole when the government stops working for we the people it is time to overthrow them. So yes I do believe it is up to the government to see who can and cannot marry based upon our founding fathers and this wonderful country that they fought and set up for us. O I’m giving my opinion on what I value. I don’t care about the founding fathers and their morality of what’s right or not. Like I said, I believe in less government and not just what aligns with my beliefs. All should be allowed to life, liberty and their pursuit of happiness. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Horsefly said: O I’m giving my opinion on what I value. I don’t care about the founding fathers and their morality of what’s right or not. Like I said, I believe in less government and not just what aligns with my beliefs. All should be allowed to life, liberty and their pursuit of happiness. That's the problem. We should all care about the founding fathers they are the ones who set this country up. They had laws and they followed the bible very closely. We have lost all that in 2019 and its absolutely disgusting in my opinion. People attack trump for not wanting gays and such in the military. George Washington didnt want them in the military either and kept them out. In NY if you were gay they sentenced you to death. All back when this country made sense. Yes you should get life liber pursuit of happiness as long as you are align with the values of this country and there is alot of bullshit in this country today that doesnt align with our values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 23 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: That's the problem. We should all care about the founding fathers they are the ones who set this country up. They had laws and they followed the bible very closely. We have lost all that in 2019 and its absolutely disgusting in my opinion. People attack trump for not wanting gays and such in the military. George Washington didnt want them in the military either and kept them out. In NY if you were gay they sentenced you to death. All back when this country made sense. Yes you should get life liber pursuit of happiness as long as you are align with the values of this country and there is alot of bullshit in this country today that doesnt align with our values. We aren’t monolithic. People think differently and value things differently. true freedom is to define life as each individual sees it. If someone’s life choices don’t impact me, then they should be allowed to pursue it. The founding fathers have their place but they aren’t omnipotent nor infallible. They were mere men, men they had strengths and flaws. Cosigning the death of gays or anyone not like you is not a virtue it’s a sickness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, Horsefly said: We aren’t monolithic. People think differently and value things differently. true freedom is to define life as each individual sees it. If someone’s life choices don’t impact me, then they should be allowed to pursue it. The founding fathers have their place but they aren’t omnipotent nor infallible. They were mere men, men they had strengths and flaws. Cosigning the death of gays or anyone not like you is not a virtue it’s a sickness. Obv were not going to agree on this which is fine. But those mere men did more for this country than anyone other than the greatest generation who stopped the tide of nazism from taking over Europe. Those mere men should be revered in this country. Those mere men are absolute heroes and should be celebrated for everything they have said and done. But I'll leave it like this. I disagree completely with you. But I can say I can honestly say I disagree with the way society is going today. I think its utterly disgusting and its perverse. Again we have thrown things like the bible out the door and the country has gone to hell due to it. Atheists just tried to get in God we trust removed from our money thank God the supreme court stopped that. But everyday the left shits all over our founding fathers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: Obv were not going to agree on this which is fine. But those mere men did more for this country than anyone other than the greatest generation who stopped the tide of nazism from taking over Europe. Those mere men should be revered in this country. Those mere men are absolute heroes and should be celebrated for everything they have said and done. But I'll leave it like this. I disagree completely with you. But I can say I can honestly say I disagree with the way society is going today. I think its utterly disgusting and its perverse. Again we have thrown things like the bible out the door and the country has gone to hell due to it. Atheists just tried to get in God we trust removed from our money thank God the supreme court stopped that. But everyday the left shits all over our founding fathers. Again, it’s your opinion about history and the founding fathers that was developed from viewing things from your self selected lens. Christian apologists throw the Bible into convo as a convenience. We have hardly conducted ourselves through history with saintly intentions. In a lot of cases we are being exposed for the evil doing that was deceitfully shrouded as God inspired, pure and good. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 2 hours ago, HSFBfan said: Obv were not going to agree on this which is fine. But those mere men did more for this country than anyone other than the greatest generation who stopped the tide of nazism from taking over Europe. Those mere men should be revered in this country. Those mere men are absolute heroes and should be celebrated for everything they have said and done. But I'll leave it like this. I disagree completely with you. But I can say I can honestly say I disagree with the way society is going today. I think its utterly disgusting and its perverse. Again we have thrown things like the bible out the door and the country has gone to hell due to it. Atheists just tried to get in God we trust removed from our money thank God the supreme court stopped that. But everyday the left shits all over our founding fathers. It's hard to keep the Bible around when the founding fathers wanted to keep the state secular -- separation of church and state. Jefferson read and admired Locke. (He listed Locke and Newton as the two greatest intellectuals of all time.) Locke argued that the state's job is to protect people's basic rights, not to endorse any particular religion or religious text. He lived through religious wars and had to flee England to live in exile in Holland. Though he was himself a Christian, he argued for religious toleration, which implies toleration of non-Christians, on the grounds that religion isn't any part of the state's job. If the sorts of policies you have endorsed on this site are informed by your respect for the Bible, maybe it's for the best that we thrown it out. I think you were suggesting that we shoot illegals. Maybe I don't read my Bible as well as you do, but I'm not sure how to square that policy with anything Jesus taught. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 @HSFBfan, here's something you can sing along to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDog Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Belly Bob said: It's hard to keep the Bible around when the founding fathers wanted to keep the state secular -- separation of church and state. Jefferson read and admired Locke. (He listed Locke and Newton as the two greatest intellectuals of all time.) Locke argued that the state's job is to protect people's basic rights, not to endorse any particular religion or religious text. He lived through religious wars and had to flee England to live in exile in Holland. Though he was himself a Christian, he argued for religious toleration, which implies toleration of non-Christians, on the grounds that religion isn't any part of the state's job. If the sorts of policies you have endorsed on this site are informed by your respect for the Bible, maybe it's for the best that we thrown it out. I think you were suggesting that we shoot illegals. Maybe I don't read my Bible as well as you do, but I'm not sure how to square that policy with anything Jesus taught. We don't always agree on everything but man much respect for your knowledge and insights. Don't let them know about this it might hurt the image of Judeo-Christian or did my people not count because somehow I should revere the Saintly Jefferson per HSFBfan. I still disike you know who 😂and don't give a damn about Jefferson either. But he clearly separated the State from Religion and was tolerant except to the select shackled employees who couldn't practice their religion. More of his B.S. Hypocrisy. Exhibit A: 🤘Clearly more than a Judeo-Christian nation since inception since 25% of my people were Muslim. When Jefferson bought his Quran as a law student in 1765, it was probably because of his interest in understanding Ottoman law. It may have also influenced his original intention for the the Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom to protect the right to worship for “the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and infidel of every denomination,” as he wrote in his autobiography. This professed religious tolerance was probably mostly theoretical for Jefferson. At the time, he and many other people of European descent likely weren’t aware of how far Islam extended into parts of Africa not controlled by the Ottoman Empire; which means that, ironically, they might not have realized that many enslaved people in North America held the very faith they were studying. Look up this highly intelligent one: Omar ibn Said 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 7 hours ago, Belly Bob said: It's hard to keep the Bible around when the founding fathers wanted to keep the state secular -- separation of church and state. Jefferson read and admired Locke. (He listed Locke and Newton as the two greatest intellectuals of all time.) Locke argued that the state's job is to protect people's basic rights, not to endorse any particular religion or religious text. He lived through religious wars and had to flee England to live in exile in Holland. Though he was himself a Christian, he argued for religious toleration, which implies toleration of non-Christians, on the grounds that religion isn't any part of the state's job. If the sorts of policies you have endorsed on this site are informed by your respect for the Bible, maybe it's for the best that we thrown it out. I think you were suggesting that we shoot illegals. Maybe I don't read my Bible as well as you do, but I'm not sure how to square that policy with anything Jesus taught. So the only president worth a damn and who made any sense whatsoever was George Washington himself. Good to know. 300 years of this nation's existence and we have had 1 president that made complete sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 13 hours ago, DevilDog said: [...] Look up this highly intelligent one: Omar ibn Said I looked him up on wikipedia. I've got his autobiography, which is available on-line, bookmarked. Have you read it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 6 hours ago, HSFBfan said: So the only president worth a damn and who made any sense whatsoever was George Washington himself. Good to know. 300 years of this nation's existence and we have had 1 president that made complete sense. What about Trump? Do you think he keeps his Bible close to him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 Just now, Belly Bob said: What about Trump? Do you think he keeps his Bible close to him? I do. When you compare trump and Washington stance on keeping gays and such out of the military they are basically identical. Trump right now for me is #2. Nobody will ever beat George Washington. He took down one of the greatest militaries on this planet at his time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 16 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: I do. When you compare trump and Washington stance on keeping gays and such out of the military they are basically identical. Trump right now for me is #2. Nobody will ever beat George Washington. He took down one of the greatest militaries on this planet at his time. Well, the Greeks and the Romans both allowed gays in the military, and both conquered the world with nothing but edged weapons. So it's not clear to me what kind of fantasies a person has to entertain in order to think that it's really important to keep gays out of the military. I would pick a different standard by which to rank Presidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: Well, the Greeks and the Romans both allowed gays in the military, and both conquered the world with nothing but edged weapons. So it's not clear to me what kind of fantasies a person has to entertain in order to think that it's really important to keep gays out of the military. I would pick a different standard by which to rank Presidents. And both empires according to the bible which I showed yesterday were struck down by God for their homosexual approval. I will never ever accept gay people. I think it's a complete and utter abomination and is helping to destroy our society. Washington #1 Trump #2 JFK #3 for the sole purpose of being smart enough to keep us out of Vietnam until they put a bullet in his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: And both empires according to the bible which I showed yesterday were struck down by God for their homosexual approval. I will never ever accept gay people. I think it's a complete and utter abomination and is helping to destroy our society. Washington #1 Trump #2 The Roman Empire was a Christian empire when it fell. It would be odd, don't you think, if God struck down the only Christian empire on Earth? Don't be afraid to think a little bit. You're so quick to declare that you'll never change your mind. That's not a virtue. It's a vice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: The Roman Empire was a Christian empire when it fell. It would be odd, don't you think, if God struck down the only Christian empire on Earth? Don't be afraid to think a little bit. You're so quick to declare that you'll never change your mind. That's not a virtue. It's a vice. I will never ever change my mind. I will never accept them and I never have too. I think they are absolutely an abomination. Encyclopedia Britannica Since God promises to destroy sodomite societies, the famous Encyclopedia Britanica taught it as: “The nameless crime, which was the disgrace of Greek and Roman civilization…” Encyclopedia Britannica 1833 Jude 7, 2 Peter 2:6, Leviticus 18:25 and other Bible verses say that God removes homosexual societies from the earth. History proves this. None remain. There are significant homosexual health dangers. CDC reports that one in five homosexual have HIV. The average age of death for a homosexual is 42 years old (Cameron). There are other diseases and depression that are common to homosexuals studies show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDog Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 50 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: I looked him up on wikipedia. I've got his autobiography, which is available on-line, bookmarked. Have you read it? I don't have it but im very familiar with him and it's amazing he's not known. Muslim slaves were literate and hated their masters and were the most disruptive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: I will never ever change my mind. I will never accept them and I never have too. I think they are absolutely an abomination. Well, so much for Christian love, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted June 12, 2019 Report Share Posted June 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: Well, so much for Christian love, I guess. Christian's do not agree with homosexuality. They denounce it. Same with multiple other religions. And it's more disgusting that we have teachers being forced to teach their way of life to young kids. This type of indoctrination should have admins teachers etc thrown in jail. And all those priests that have been caught in sex scandals should be executed immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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