What's been going on with the Grant Pacers?

[Ararar]

2 hours ago, Cal 14 said:

From what I recall, DLS called them for a game in 2009, but Grant had already scheduled a visit to San Diego for an out-of-state game (sort of like the Honor Bowl, I guess).  So, DLS scheduled someone else.  About a month later, the San Diego game fell through, but it was too late to get DLS.

This is what I remember as well

i believe it was a team from GA they were supposed to play

[ThunderRam]

14 hours ago, Rippers said:

Had 2014 Folsom played and lost to DLS, would they still be considered Folsom's best ever?  

 

To me, absolutely.

For one, DLS's 2014 team was better than the 2018 version. IMO, a couple of notches better.

There'd be no shame losing to that team, even by a much larger margin. Hell, a really good Centennial lost by 21.

[ThunderRam]

10 hours ago, Cal 14 said:

Also, keep this in mind, many of us from NorCal aren't even convinced that the 2008 Grant team should have even been chosen for a state bowl game.  Bellarmine may have very well been better.  The Bells clobbered the eventual state D-II runner up (St. Mary's) 35-6 in a non-league game.  The Rams had won the Sac-Joaquin D-I title that year.  Grant was actually in D-II.

 

Good call out on Bellarmine. While I still believe GHS was the better team, the Bells were quite good and more than worthy. Probably good enough to beat DLS and GHS on any given day.

Funny, but I think people often get fooled into forgetting about teams that either didn't get a shot or even lost a tough game against a stellar opponent. Obviously the Bells fit into that first category. Same goes for Palo Alto who didn't get a shot at the Open in 2010 but was more than worthy.

But in terms of the latter category, I firmly believe Grant Union's 2006, 2009 and 2010 teams were all better than their 2008 team. But 2008 is thought of as better because of what they accomplished that season.

The 2006 team was the victim of only 3 SBG's back then. So they didn't get the opportunity to play on the big stage.

The 2009 team happened to play in the deepest, toughest SJS bracket I've ever seen and faced a full strength Rocklin team that nearly beat the PAC-5 champ minus their starting QB and with one of their starting WR's playing the position instead. GHS easily could have and really should have beaten Rocklin.

The 2010 team, as I know you know, was severely hampered by key injuries at the end of the playoffs. While Folsom fans won't agree, most SJS fans on the NorCal board believe GHS would have won that game otherwise. They already blew out that Folsom team once, even though they were much improved.

Point is, things aren't always as they seem. Lots of variables play into it. And one that many fans never consider is the level and depth of competition in a given season. There have been lots of champions in the NBA, NCAA, MLB, NFL, and throughout HS sports that might not have won with the same team if playing in a different season. And others that never won that might have had the circumstances been easier.

Circling back to Bellarmine, that 2008 team might have been one of their best teams but won't be thought of as so because they didn't end up with the same level of accomplishment. IMO St. Mary's 2009 team was their best team and suffers from the same fate.

[Pops]

12 hours ago, Cal 14 said:

From what I recall, DLS called them for a game in 2009, but Grant had already scheduled a visit to San Diego for an out-of-state game (sort of like the Honor Bowl, I guess).  So, DLS scheduled someone else.  About a month later, the San Diego game fell through, but it was too late to get DLS.

This was 2010

DLS’s someone else was The Bishop

12 hours ago, Cal 14 said:

People outside of the region like to laugh and say that DLS completely dominates the region, but the Spartans haven't actually dominated every single game.

A few examples:

2004:  Tied both Palma (CCS) and Clayton Valley (NCS)

2005:  Needed to recover an onside kick to put away Palma by 7.

2008:  Scored late in the 4th to pull within 1 point of Serra (CCS), supposedly fumbled the PAT snap (probably a fake by the holder) and ran it in for a 1-point win.  Only beat California (NCS) by 7.

2009:  Only beat Serra (who finished 6-6) and Monte Vista (NCS) by 7.

2011:  Taken to double-OT by Bellarmine, who missed a PAT in the first OT that would have secured the win.

There are others, but the point is that they do get challenges.

Also, keep this in mind, many of us from NorCal aren't even convinced that the 2008 Grant team should have even been chosen for a state bowl game.  Bellarmine may have very well been better.  The Bells clobbered the eventual state D-II runner up (St. Mary's) 35-6 in a non-league game.  The Rams had won the Sac-Joaquin D-I title that year.  Grant was actually in D-II.

In ‘09 (the year they played DBP’s MNC team and lost to Lakeland), they tied or trailed the first 3 Norcal teams they played at halftime (down 7 to Serra, 11 to Amador valley, and were tied with Monte vista — Bart houston’s first start) and wound up putting away Crenshaw in Open comfortably 

‘09 is a great hyper-improvement year — bested only by ‘04 IMHO

(slightly ahead of ‘10, ‘11, 12, ‘13, etc)

[Pops]

1 hour ago, ThunderRam said:

 Same goes for Palo Alto who didn't get a shot at the Open in 2010 but was more than worthy.

No offense to Paly but I’d put them more in the fortunate category for who they didn’t play than unfortunate because they didn’t get their due 

I think ‘10 DLS would have rocked them in a Norcal Open and none of us would give them much credit today 

IOW, they’re more akin to ‘12 Granite Bay, who got to go to D1 SBG as SJS’s #2 team and Beat Pac5 champ than Folsom, SJS’s #1 team that lost to DLS by 28 or so 

[Pops]

10 hours ago, Ararar said:

This is what I remember as well

i believe it was a team from GA they were supposed to play

It was 2010 and I don’t think it was a GA team but maybe — bottom line, Grant didn’t want the game then — they were ranked ahead of DLS preseason (top 5 everywhere), had nothing to gain and SBG Open spot to lose, and a sore ass from DLS’s “demands” earlier 

[ThunderRam]

On 7/9/2019 at 3:58 AM, Pops said:

No offense to Paly but I’d put them more in the fortunate category for who they didn’t play than unfortunate because they didn’t get their due 

I think ‘10 DLS would have rocked them in a Norcal Open and none of us would give them much credit today 

IOW, they’re more akin to ‘12 Granite Bay, who got to go to D1 SBG as SJS’s #2 team and Beat Pac5 champ than Folsom, SJS’s #1 team that lost to DLS by 28 or so 

 

You may be right, you may be wrong about the outcome of a potential game.

Regardless, they still didn’t get a shot to prove how good they may have been. Either against DLS or in the top SBG. I’d argue that makes them unfortunate. Because fans like you still don’t think they could have won. That’s precisely why they deserved a shot to play an Regional Open for the right to play in the big game. Same goes for Folsom 2014. And even DLS themselves in 2008.

That PALY team with Devante Adams, Kevin Anderson and Keller Chryst, among others, was pretty damn good.

[Pops]

14 hours ago, ThunderRam said:

 

You may be right, you may be wrong about the outcome of a potential game.

Regardless, they still didn’t get a shot to prove how good they may have been. Either against DLS or in the top SBG. I’d argue that makes them unfortunate. Because fans like you still don’t think they could have won. That’s precisely why they deserved a shot to play an Regional Open for the right to play in the big game. Same goes for Folsom 2014. And even DLS themselves in 2008.

That PALY team with Devante Adams, Kevin Anderson and Keller Chryst, among others, was pretty damn good.

I know that Paly team had some studs and they beat a CC team that most in socal thought was the top socal team going into SBGs (as undefeated Pac5 champ, servite was virtually automatic).  

Understand and agree with your inverse point 

i have ALWAYS been in favor of a Norcal championship — socal basically has one now

[old_e]

Not a whole lotta enchilada 😆

[Texasball]

On 7/7/2019 at 1:30 PM, Nolebull813 said:

Found it. 

In 2008 they go undefeated and win state. No DLS on the Sked. 

2009 no DLS. Go 12-1. Maybe the end of a 2 year cycle. Beat state champ Bellevue. Let’s get it on!!

2010 here we go. 2 game series, one at Sac State, and the other at the 49ers stadium. It’s time to break the streak!!! 

 

I recall those Grant teams they reminded me of a Euless Trinity so they would have beat DLS.  lol

[ThunderRam]

On 7/7/2019 at 2:28 PM, Pops said:

Grant list to rocklin in ‘09 while knocking out their star QB — that rocklin team (with a WR playing emergency QB) took servite to the limit in the D2 SBG

 

For the sake of accuracy, Laughrea wasn't injured against Grant Union. He injured his shoulder early in the next game against Del Oro in the Section Final.

[ThunderRam]

On 7/7/2019 at 2:28 PM, Pops said:

grant has NEVER won consecutive section championships — DLS working on #28 in a row

 

Don't know why you think it matters. Whether or not they've strung together section championships doesn't factor in to whether they could have beaten DLS in a given season.

I mean, they beat Bellevue in Seattle in 2009 yet didn't win section that same season. So if they were capable of beating Bellevue in their own backyard, they were certainly capable of beating DLS that same season despite not winning section. Thus it's an invalid point.

Fact is Grant Union was the one program in the Sac Metro area that consistently fielded teams capable of matching up with DLS. They always had large, physical, athletic line play and loads of athletes.

@Texasball's comparison to Trinity is an accurate one. Not even during Folsom's current run have they consistently fielded offensive and defensive lines the size and quality of the Pacers.

That's the reason not scheduling those games mattered. It's always about matchups. GHS would have matched up against DLS's strengths better than anyone else in the SJS and likely all of NorCal.

Run-heavy teams couldn't run on the Pacers. Ask Bellevue. DLS would have had to sling it more than they wanted to. 99.9% of all other Norcal teams aren't typically able to force the Spartans to win in a manner they aren't as comfortable with or as adept at.

[Texasball]

5 hours ago, ThunderRam said:

 

Don't know why you think it matters. Whether or not they've strung together section championships doesn't factor in to whether they could have beaten DLS in a given season.

I mean, they beat Bellevue in Seattle in 2009 yet didn't win section that same season. So if they were capable of beating Bellevue in their own backyard, they were certainly capable of beating DLS that same season despite not winning section. Thus it's an invalid point.

Fact is Grant Union was the one program in the Sac Metro area that consistently fielded teams capable of matching up with DLS. They always had large, physical, athletic line play and loads of athletes.

@Texasball's comparison to Trinity is an accurate one. Not even during Folsom's current run have they consistently fielded offensive and defensive lines the size and quality of the Pacers.

That's the reason not scheduling those games mattered. It's always about matchups. GHS would have matched up against DLS's strengths better than anyone else in the SJS and likely all of NorCal.

Run-heavy teams couldn't run on the Pacers. Ask Bellevue. DLS would have had to sling it more than they wanted to. 99.9% of all other Norcal teams aren't typically able to force the Spartans to win in a manner they aren't as comfortable with or as adept at.

I agree, the Grant team that beat Bellevue was not their best during that time.  Just being completely honest about the Grant vs Bellevue game - Bellevue had played Katy TX the week prior and had several players sitting out vs Grant.  

I had seen Grant multiple years prior to this and they really impressed me with size and skill.

[Pops]

8 hours ago, ThunderRam said:

 

Don't know why you think it matters. Whether or not they've strung together section championships doesn't factor in to whether they could have beaten DLS in a given season.

I mean, they beat Bellevue in Seattle in 2009 yet didn't win section that same season. So if they were capable of beating Bellevue in their own backyard, they were certainly capable of beating DLS that same season despite not winning section. Thus it's an invalid point.

Fact is Grant Union was the one program in the Sac Metro area that consistently fielded teams capable of matching up with DLS. They always had large, physical, athletic line play and loads of athletes.

@Texasball's comparison to Trinity is an accurate one. Not even during Folsom's current run have they consistently fielded offensive and defensive lines the size and quality of the Pacers.

That's the reason not scheduling those games mattered. It's always about matchups. GHS would have matched up against DLS's strengths better than anyone else in the SJS and likely all of NorCal.

Run-heavy teams couldn't run on the Pacers. Ask Bellevue. DLS would have had to sling it more than they wanted to. 99.9% of all other Norcal teams aren't typically able to force the Spartans to win in a manner they aren't as comfortable with or as adept at.

Not winning consecutive section titles is relevant info for those that think DLS sucked the clear and obvious team that was capable of beating them 

they weren’t that team until they were and then DLS was trying to play them 

grant beating bellevue in ‘09 means nothing about DLS — dls ‘09 much better than DLS ‘04 and bellevue ‘09 not nearly as good as bellevue ‘04.  That said, Grant wonnthe SBG Open in ‘08 with a shutout and were ranked #1 in country by some in ‘10.  They were clearly capable 

[Pops]

3 hours ago, Texasball said:

I agree, the Grant team that beat Bellevue was not their best during that time.  Just being completely honest about the Grant vs Bellevue game - Bellevue had played Katy TX the week prior and had several players sitting out vs Grant.  

I had seen Grant multiple years prior to this and they really impressed me with size and skill.

What you saw was starters that missed the Katy game returning 

Mwt a bellevue ‘09 kid recently — what he remembers most about that game was the humidity 

would be nice if TX teams ever travelled — that is a HUGE factor in hsfb and some Texans dismiss it and now have an inflated sense of their state’s relative value

[Pops]

12 hours ago, Texasball said:

I recall those Grant teams they reminded me of a Euless Trinity so they would have beat DLS.  lol

And the TX state champ!

[Texasball]

1 hour ago, Pops said:

And the TX state champ!

Yup they beat North Shore that year...So did Manvel and Westfield before  playing Trinity.  3 teams from TX beat our final champion in the regular season.  

Then Trinity can't make it past the first round.

That's called QUALITY HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL DEPTH!

How many others beat DLS that year?  They pretty much run ruled everyone on the schedule until they won the final by 7.

How bad is STA FL going to beat DLS this year?

[Texasball]

1 hour ago, Pops said:

What you saw was starters that missed the Katy game returning 

Mwt a bellevue ‘09 kid recently — what he remembers most about that game was the humidity 

would be nice if TX teams ever travelled — that is a HUGE factor in hsfb and some Texans dismiss it and now have an inflated sense of their state’s relative value

no need to travel too far.  We have way too many quality teams right here to play.  

[Horsefly]

1 hour ago, Pops said:

And “a” TX state champ!

FIFY 

[Texasball]

1 hour ago, Pops said:

What you saw was starters that missed the Katy game returning 

Mwt a bellevue ‘09 kid recently — what he remembers most about that game was the humidity 

would be nice if TX teams ever travelled — that is a HUGE factor in hsfb and some Texans dismiss it and now have an inflated sense of their state’s relative value

That is simply not true - Bellevue had multiple starters missing when they played Grant after playing Katy.

[Texasball]

1 hour ago, Pops said:

And the TX state champ!

I traveled to Washington to watch Bellevue play Trinity.

The best Bellevue team ever needed OT to beat one of the worst Trinity teams that I had seen in years. It's the damn truth

[Pops]

22 minutes ago, Texasball said:

I traveled to Washington to watch Bellevue play Trinity.

The best Bellevue team ever needed OT to beat one of the worst Trinity teams that I had seen in years. It's the damn truth

That was so NOT the best bellevue team ever but you see what you want to see 

I will give props to Trinity for traveling to a non border state to play a risk game — as far as I know that’s the only  time a top TX team has done so

tough to travel, isn’t it?

[Pops]

26 minutes ago, Texasball said:

That is simply not true - Bellevue had multiple starters missing when they played Grant after playing Katy.

They had multiple starters return for the Grant game — at least that’s what I was told by a kid on that team — you can research if you’d like 

[Pops]

29 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

FIFY 

I suppose we could say the same thing about DLS and CA then 

[Horsefly]

52 minutes ago, Pops said:

I suppose we could say the same thing about DLS and CA then 

Well Pops there is no supposition when it comes to TX, we have 2 6A state champs.