What's been going on with the Grant Pacers?

[Texasball]

8 hours ago, Pops said:

They had multiple starters return for the Grant game — at least that’s what I was told by a kid on that team — you can research if you’d like 

Totally not true.  It was the other way around and everyone fing knows it too.  

[Texasball]

8 hours ago, Pops said:

They had multiple starters return for the Grant game — at least that’s what I was told by a kid on that team — you can research if you’d like 

Here you pops - the truth will set you free

http://www.bellevuereporter.com/sports/bellevue-shut-out-by-grant/

ps the kids mentioned all played vs Katy 

like DLS it’s hard to win with starters out because chances are they are 2-way players

[ThunderRam]

14 hours ago, Pops said:

Not winning consecutive section titles is relevant info for those that think DLS sucked the clear and obvious team that was capable of beating them

It's not relevant Pops. You clearly missed my point. Grant Union was a team capable of competing and beating DLS from 1992ish through 2010. While some of their teams were better and more accomplished than others, most of those teams had the size, speed, athletes and line play to compete with and possible beat DLS even if they ended up losing to someone else. That's the point.

Like @Texasball mentions about a top Texas team sometimes losing to a 6-4 team. Sometimes a team just matches up well with a team with a superior record and superior accomplishments. Doesn't matter whether Grant Union won section or not, their teams over that 19 season stretch would have matched up well most years against DLS. Some seasons far better than others. But they never played them for a whole host of reasons.

 

14 hours ago, Pops said:

they weren’t that team until they were and then DLS was trying to play them 

Yes they were. I realize you're not well versed about any of their teams prior to 2006ish. So just take my word for it.

 

14 hours ago, Pops said:

grant beating bellevue in ‘09 means nothing about DLS — dls ‘09 much better than DLS ‘04 and bellevue ‘09 not nearly as good as bellevue ‘04.

Yes it does. It shows that they were clearly capable of hanging with and beating a National elite team in 2009. How 2009 Bellevue compares with 2004 Bellevue doesn't matter. I mean, it's only your opinion anyway which one was better and you really don't know. You're just guessing. But giving you the benefit of the doubt that it's true, it still isn't relevant. Because we're only talking about how 2009 Grant Union could have fared against 2009 DLS.

Beating State Champ Bellevue that season, who was a Nationally relevant program by then, on the road in shut out fashion demonstrates that team was capable. Also, Bellevue was similar to DLS in that they were a run-heavy team that didn't throw much. If you could force them to throw more than they wanted, your chances of winning increased. Bellevue couldn't run on that 2009 Pacers defense. Rocklin found it difficult as well, but had some success due to their pass threat. DLS didn't have Rocklin's level of a passing attack. So I believe DLS would have found it difficult to run too, which is the matchup issue I spoke about.

Rocklin only managed 21 points on that Pacers defense despite having an upper tier pass attack with a D1 QB, a 6'5" D1 WR/TE and a D1 RB that rushed for over 2400 yards and scored 42 TD's. W/O the threat of a legit pass attack, DLS would have found it nearly impossible to move the ball against that defense -- just as Bellevue did.

That Pacers team had 9 D1 players on defense and several future NFL'ers.

 

14 hours ago, Pops said:

That said, Grant wonnthe SBG Open in ‘08 with a shutout and were ranked #1 in country by some in ‘10.  They were clearly capable 

 

They didn't win the 2008 SBG with a shut out. They beat POLY 25-20. The shut out was against Bellevue in 2009.

Fully agree with you about 2010. That team would have won Section if not for several key injuries and IMO State as well.

[Wosinc]

On 7/16/2019 at 12:41 PM, Pops said:

 would be nice if TX teams ever travelled — that is a HUGE factor in hsfb and some Texans dismiss it and now have an inflated sense of their state’s relative value

 

On 7/16/2019 at 2:05 PM, Texasball said:

no need to travel too far.  We have way too many quality teams right here to play.  

I get that Texas has depth, and the monetary factor can’t be ignored, plus OOS teams want to have the Friday Night Lights experience.

These are all valid reasons for Texas not to travel.

But I think the point is that always (or almost always) playing at home gives Texas teams a built in advantage.  That can’t be ignored either.

Until Texas teams play home and home series, their OOS results will be nothing more than an interesting curiosity, while proving nothing.

[ChimpGrip]

Does anyone know whatever happened to that 5 star DT Villami Moala? I remember Bama recruiting him in 2010 (?) I think.

[Extremely Humble]

4 hours ago, ChimpGrip said:

Does anyone know whatever happened to that 5 star DT Villami Moala? I remember Bama recruiting him in 2010 (?) I think.

He played at Cal and was signed by the Ravens but I don't think he ever played a down of pro ball. 

[Texasball]

21 hours ago, Wosinc said:

 

I get that Texas has depth, and the monetary factor can’t be ignored, plus OOS teams want to have the Friday Night Lights experience.

These are all valid reasons for Texas not to travel.

But I think the point is that always (or almost always) playing at home gives Texas teams a built in advantage.  That can’t be ignored either.

Until Texas teams play home and home series, their OOS results will be nothing more than an interesting curiosity, while proving nothing.

So I guess every home win means nothing?

MD wins vs BG and vs IMG meant nothing.

how many OOS games has MD played the last 10 years?

[Texasball]

Here is what it meant to me when DLS the #1 team in the nation got beat by Trinity.

#1 they was way over ranked

#2 every top team that came here from Florida was hands down better than them

STA, MNW, BTW, MC 

#3  Trinity was 1 of many teams from Texas capable of beating DLS

#4 DLS was the least Athletic top ranked team from any top football state that I have ever seen - that includes small states like Louisiana and most of the South

#5. DLS plays way too many 2-way players to go far in the top level of Texas Football -  They would never survive 6 round playoff system.

[Pops]

1 hour ago, Texasball said:

Here is what it meant to me when DLS the #1 team in the nation got beat by Trinity.

#1 they was way over ranked

#2 every top team that came here from Florida was hands down better than them

STA, MNW, BTW, MC 

#3  Trinity was 1 of many teams from Texas capable of beating DLS

#4 DLS was the least Athletic top ranked team from any top football state that I have ever seen - that includes small states like Louisiana and most of the South

#5. DLS plays way too many 2-way players to go far in the top level of Texas Football -  They would never survive 6 round playoff system.

Let’s just start with your first point 

DLS, a notorious slow starting team, travelled 1500 miles to play a top TX in August; a team that matched up with them perfectly, and lost on an overthrow of an open receiver on the last play in a game every single non TX which viewed felt DLS was probably the better team...... 

if that proves they were over ranked that doesn’t say much about TX my friend 

and as a 4th generation Texan I take offense 

The honest takeaway from that game was that a really good team went to TX and lost to a very good team that they probably beat more often than not in a very exciting game 

your logic is clearly what you want to believe 

I said before the game that I thought DLS was the best team in the country but that it was a coin flip game — that’s the TX advantage we’re talking about — I think when a hs team travels 1500 miles, and add in August TX heat, and that’s worth 7-10 points imho 

heck, @Gardensateballer Says east coast kids have a 3 TD disadvantage to play past their natural bedtime 

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

4 hours ago, Pops said:

heck, @Gardensateballer Says east coast kids have a 3 TD disadvantage to play past their natural bedtime 

HAHAHA

BGW

@GardenStateBaller

[Texasball]

On 7/19/2019 at 2:19 AM, Pops said:

Let’s just start with your first point 

DLS, a notorious slow starting team, travelled 1500 miles to play a top TX in August; a team that matched up with them perfectly, and lost on an overthrow of an open receiver on the last play in a game every single non TX which viewed felt DLS was probably the better team...... 

if that proves they were over ranked that doesn’t say much about TX my friend 

and as a 4th generation Texan I take offense 

The honest takeaway from that game was that a really good team went to TX and lost to a very good team that they probably beat more often than not in a very exciting game 

your logic is clearly what you want to believe 

I said before the game that I thought DLS was the best team in the country but that it was a coin flip game — that’s the TX advantage we’re talking about — I think when a hs team travels 1500 miles, and add in August TX heat, and that’s worth 7-10 points imho 

heck, @Gardensateballer Says east coast kids have a 3 TD disadvantage to play past their natural bedtime 

Trick play over thrown ball by non QB - let that sink in.

its well known in these parts that Trinity starts slow too.  The majority of their state championship teams had early season set backs. Go look that up!

it was not really all that hot.  Remember the storm and the game being delayed way after dark.

Teams like DLS are not really affected by travel...been there done that.  Cult like group with great leaders to keep them focused.

this was not a great Trinity team for their standard.  You can say they beat NShore and so did two others before them.  That N shore team was work in progress and put all together and basically came out of nowhere to survive the playoffs.

its foolish to ignore the results and to dismiss the truth that a pretty large group of teams from here could have beaten DLS. 

16 games to win our state title against our top league with a ton of 2-way players is not going to workout good for anyone.

 

[Wosinc]

On 7/18/2019 at 11:50 PM, Texasball said:

So I guess every home win means nothing? 

I never said that.  The discussion was about Texas and OOS.  My position is the same about any OOS game, but Texas is the only state that tries to minimize the issue.   It’s irrefutable that playing an OOS game at home, (particularly when the visitor is traveling 1000+ miles) gives the home team a huge advantage.  Even in the pros, with grown men  used to traveling 8 weeks per season, the home team gets a 3-point bump.  I’ll bet, with high school kids, time zone change, and being away from home, the advantage might be more like 10 to 14 points.

That’s why, to me, a 5-point loss to ET, or a 1-point OT loss to Lakeland is inconclusive.  Without a return match in a timely fashion, so the teams might be roughly comparable, the result is inconclusive.

Likewise ET’s 1-point loss at Bellvue is inconclusive.

Take off your homer glasses and make an honest argument as to why Texas playing at home doesn’t give them a built in advantage? 

MD wins vs BG and vs IMG meant nothing.

Again, we weren’t talking about MD, BG, or IMG.  But for the record, MD only beat IMG by 4, well within my margin of error.

how many OOS games has MD played the last 10 years?

Don’t know and don’t care.  It’s irrelevant to this discussion.  I think the question you wanted to ask was “how many OOS games have they played out of state,” because that’s the real issue.  I’m not picking on Texas; quite the opposite, which you’d see if you unwadded your panties.  I respect Texas football.  I’d respect it more if they traveled more.  Or, rather, I could put it more into perspective if they traveled more.

As I said in my original post, I understand why they don’t.  But until they do they can’t expect to be viewed in the same way a DBP, DLS, or a WCAC school is viewed.

I also get it if they don’t care.  That’s a perfectly logical position to take.  But you can’t have it both ways.

 

[old_e]

Is there a complete video of the Grant vs Bellevue game out there?

[Pops]

3 hours ago, Texasball said:

Trick play over thrown ball by non QB - let that sink in.

its well known in these parts that Trinity starts slow too.  The majority of their state championship teams had early season set backs. Go look that up!

it was not really all that hot.  Remember the storm and the game being delayed way after dark.

Teams like DLS are not really affected by travel...been there done that.  Cult like group with great leaders to keep them focused.

this was not a great Trinity team for their standard.  You can say they beat NShore and so did two others before them.  That N shore team was work in progress and put all together and basically came out of nowhere to survive the playoffs.

its foolish to ignore the results and to dismiss the truth that a pretty large group of teams from here could have beaten DLS. 

16 games to win our state title against our top league with a ton of 2-way players is not going to workout good for anyone.

 

DLS would have more titles than any team in TX over last 10, 20, or 30 years 

You’ve taken a razor thin win by one of your flagship programs over a team that did something that no TX team has ever done (travelled OOS to play a team as good as Trinity) and taken complete liberty to create your own conclusions.

why wouldn’t the game prove that DLS could beat anyone in TX (since they played Trinity very tough under an adverse environment and Trinity beat your state champs on the road).

btw, that non QB in the trick play was the JV QB the prior year 

everyone here remembers that game so everyone here knows you’re full of shit with your take-aways 

well, everyone just knows you’re full of shit, period, but I digress 

[Ararar]

9 hours ago, Texasball said:

Trick play over thrown ball by non QB - let that sink in.

its well known in these parts that Trinity starts slow too.  The majority of their state championship teams had early season set backs. Go look that up!

it was not really all that hot.  Remember the storm and the game being delayed way after dark.

Teams like DLS are not really affected by travel...been there done that.  Cult like group with great leaders to keep them focused.

this was not a great Trinity team for their standard.  You can say they beat NShore and so did two others before them.  That N shore team was work in progress and put all together and basically came out of nowhere to survive the playoffs.

its foolish to ignore the results and to dismiss the truth that a pretty large group of teams from here could have beaten DLS. 

16 games to win our state title against our top league with a ton of 2-way players is not going to workout good for anyone.

 

While I agree with you on the overall depth of Texas football I disagree that the Trinity game proves DLS couldn’t win 6A.In fact how that season played out it proved they could have won 6A since NS went on to win.Of course DLS wouldn’t be as dominant in Texas just to many good teams in a true state playoff 

[Texasball]

13 hours ago, Ararar said:

While I agree with you on the overall depth of Texas football I disagree that the Trinity game proves DLS couldn’t win 6A.In fact how that season played out it proved they could have won 6A since NS went on to win.Of course DLS wouldn’t be as dominant in Texas just to many good teams in a true state playoff 

We all have our opinions.

I don’t believe DLS could win it here because they play too many kids both ways.  I wouldn’t say that about MD or SJB because they don’t play hardly any both ways if any.