OT: Trump launches military attack against Syrian airfield

[Cat_Scratch]

2 hours ago, SOCIntellectualProperty said:

Not sure how this relates to my post.... except lending more credence to it

you realize Assad is fighting Isil right?

 

America has essentially provided ISIS with air support in its fight against Assad

 

m0st independent journalists around the world insist Isis was responsible for the chemical attack... not Assad

 

yiu realize those are two competing factions 

 

 

Southern cal Intelligence... Last time I checked, Children were not ISIS fighters. Maybe you know something I don't?

ISIL and ISIS are pretty much the same.

[Cat_Scratch]

So collateral damage is okay now, or are you saying Assad didn't drop the chems on the children, just on ISIS?

[SOCIntellectualProperty]

23 minutes ago, Cat_Scratch said:

So collateral damage is okay now, or are you saying Assad didn't drop the chems on the children, just on ISIS?

No... I think we're having two different conversations...

 

first, I'm not asserting anything happened... just considering other possibilities 

..of course Isil and isis are the same, hence me using the terms interchangeably 

I'm saying most of the world believes Assad did not order the recent chemical attacks AT ALL...they believed the attacks were orchestrated by either Al Quaeda or ISIS themselves..

follow now?

there was no benefit in him gassing civilians  when he's at the brink of stumping out isis (his main threat) in his country.

[Pops]

16 hours ago, World Citizen said:

 His unpredictable style is great for playing poker maybe but not great at putting me at ease.

Do you want leadership or someone that puts you at ease?

It is absolutely not the same thing

[World Citizen]

5 minutes ago, Pops said:

Do you want leadership or someone that puts you at ease?

It is absolutely not the same thing

I wasn't equating the two, but I would like both equally.?

Leadership probably means two different things for me and you imo.  Nothing wrong with that.  

Btw, you think DLS will be ready for BG?  You keeping up in the team?

[Pops]

33 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

I wasn't equating the two, but I would like both equally.?

Leadership probably means two different things for me and you imo.  Nothing wrong with that.  

Btw, you think DLS will be ready for BG?  You keeping up in the team?

I'm way more disconnected than I used to be -- my kids are all in college (oldest is about to graduate) and I just sold my house and am moving out of the area.

i was somewhat shocked to see Henry To'oto'o (DLS LB) listed as the #23 junior to be in the country -- didn't realize he was regarded anywhere close to that by recruiters

DLS returns 21 starters so has a chance to be pretty good, but I am certain there's going to be a talent gap between DLS and top tier (i.e. 5-6) teams.  I just don't know if BG still in that tier

as it stands Is favor DLS because if the recent Sanchez news although he doesn't play and I wouldn't challenge a coin flip

im not sure St John College might not be the better opponent this fall

[World Citizen]

2 hours ago, Pops said:

I'm way more disconnected than I used to be -- my kids are all in college (oldest is about to graduate) and I just sold my house and am moving out of the area.

i was somewhat shocked to see Henry To'oto'o (DLS LB) listed as the #23 junior to be in the country -- didn't realize he was regarded anywhere close to that by recruiters

DLS returns 21 starters so has a chance to be pretty good, but I am certain there's going to be a talent gap between DLS and top tier (i.e. 5-6) teams.  I just don't know if BG still in that tier

as it stands Is favor DLS because if the recent Sanchez news although he doesn't play and I wouldn't challenge a coin flip

im not sure St John College might not be the better opponent this fall

Imo, the transfer mania the past several years has taken a relatively level playing field and turned it into something which leaves out some of the best things about football.  Way too many "all about me" athletes that will leave a team for another, sometimes in the same town.  D1 athletes will get recruited if they play for SJB or Ojai so why leave.  The coaching would have to be just horrible to move and horrible coaches usually don't get hired.  

Ok. Done with rant.  

But...if I had kids I can see where I might eat these words.  Makes rant worthless dang it. ?

[Cat_Scratch]

5 hours ago, SOCIntellectualProperty said:

No... I think we're having two different conversations...

 

first, I'm not asserting anything happened... just considering other possibilities 

..of course Isil and isis are the same, hence me using the terms interchangeably 

I'm saying most of the world believes Assad did not order the recent chemical attacks AT ALL...they believed the attacks were orchestrated by either Al Quaeda or ISIS themselves..

follow now?

there was no benefit in him gassing civilians  when he's at the brink of stumping out isis (his main threat) in his country.

Not sure what you were reading, but this is where I got the idea Assad was using Chems on kids.

The Syrian dictator is clearly incompatible with an end to the civil war.

Yesterday, President Trump put Assad on notice. Facing Assad’s latest chemical atrocity, Trump’s anger was visible. There was an unusually somber quality to the president at his press conference with King Abdullah of Jordan. Referencing other recent chemical attacks, Trump showed his understanding that Assad has no regard for innocent life.

And Trump will be aware that he must now respond to Assad. If he does not, the binding of his powerful words with practiced impotence will fray his credibility. This will become Obama red lines part deux. Still, whatever he does, Trump’s response must satisfy two criteria. First, it must be overt and significant. Unless Assad and the world recognize America’s response, its strategic import will be limited. Trump must show he means business. Second, the action must serve a broader strategy in Syria. It must be more than a shot in the dark to sate emotional needs.  

From my perspective, three options meet these demands.

Air Strikes on Syrian-Regime Targets

The Syrian government has delineated military and intelligence offices that could be targeted with marginal risk to civilians. Regardless, the top officers in Assad’s inner circle are complicit in his murder. Since the civil war began in 2011, many have been promoted for a simple reason: They have shown skill in torturing and killing their fellow citizens. U.S. and allied intelligence services also closely monitor Assad’s chemical (especially nerve-agent) stockpiles and forces. For the U.S., alongside the British and French air forces, to hit these would send a clear message to the regime. Pursuant to broader strategy, it would also introduce a new calculus for Assad’s overlord, Vladimir Putin. In short, the Russian president would realize that Trump’s Syria negotiating strategy has hard contours. This understanding is crucial. John Kerry’s merry-go-round waltzes with Lavrov prove what happens when Russia believes that the U.S. is irresolute. The Russians strangle the initiative in Assad’s favor. Yes, Assad may try to counter-pressure the United States either via Iranian proxies or Russian harassing actions in northern Syria. If he is truly stupid he may use his own forces to that end. But Trump has insulation in his unpredictability and his greater power. U.S. military forces have the capacity (recently reinforced) in both Iraq and Syria to contest these threats. Moreover, the strategic calculus of both Russia and Iran is ultimately rational. If the U.S. is willing to leverage influence in Syria, they will come to the table ready to compromise. Introduce New Sanctions on Putin and Demand Assad’s Removal I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The Syrian civil war won’t end until Assad goes. Those who present Assad as a necessary bulwark against ISIS are deluded. They ignore the second-order effects of Assad’s bloodletting of Sunnis: fueling ISIS recruitment and escalated support for Salafi-terrorist groups by the Sunni monarchies. But it’s equally important here that Putin understand that Assad is a difficulty rather than a utility. Sanctions on Russian finance in Europe would be a good escalation toward that end. And Theresa May’s British government might support such action (London is the global playground for Russian funny money). Of course, this depends on Trump’s willingness to aggravate Putin and oppose Russian money. Reinforce Rebel Supply Lines from Turkey to the Idlib Governate Idlib province is now the last great bastion of the Sunni rebellion. As such, and as I predicted in December (point four), it was inevitable that the Assad axis would pummel Idlib’s civilian population. But if Trump really wants to bring Assad to kneel, and the Russians to serious negotiations, he must empower moderate rebels in Idlib. Toward that end, he must influence President Erdogan of Turkey. Erdogan has qualified his support for the rebels under pressure from Putin, who has both posed threats to his government and by praised him for his coup-survival skills. And that’s a big problem. Idlib’s border with Turkey is the rebels’ priceless supply line. Fortunately, Trump has sticks and carrots with which to persuade Erdogan. Additionally, Trump should authorize the deployment of anti-air (if user-specific safeguards are applied to prevent non-U.S.-aligned groups from using them) and greater anti-armor capabilities to U.S.-aligned rebel formations in Idlib. This matters not just in empowering greater resistance against Assad but also in helping those groups counterbalance terrorist groups in the governate. At present, those terrorist groups, including Syria’s al-Qaeda affiliate, are dominating the anti-Assad effort. That success sucks manpower, resources, and ideological moderation out of the rebellion. All this said, I suspect that Trump has probably decided on a course of action. Likely the first one. America’s major Sunni partners have been visiting Washington in recent days. The Saudis, Egyptians, and Jordanians will all have told Trump that Assad is incompatible with an end to the Syrian civil war. And King Abdullah of Jordan would have told Trump of the millions of Syrian refugees now living in his nation. More important, Defense Secretary Mattis believes in overt U.S. leadership in the Middle East. And Trump likes Mattis. — Tom Rogan is a columnist for Opportunity Lives and National Review, a former panelist on The McLaughlin Group and a senior fellow at the Steamboat Institute. Email him at Thomas.RoganE@Gmail.com.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/446511/syria-civil-war-gas-attack-assad-trump-united-states-allies-russia-putin

[SOCIntellectualProperty]

1 hour ago, Cat_Scratch said:

Not sure what you were reading, but this is where I got the idea Assad was using Chems on kids.

The Syrian dictator is clearly incompatible with an end to the civil war.

Yesterday, President Trump put Assad on notice. Facing Assad’s latest chemical atrocity, Trump’s anger was visible. There was an unusually somber quality to the president at his press conference with King Abdullah of Jordan. Referencing other recent chemical attacks, Trump showed his understanding that Assad has no regard for innocent life.

And Trump will be aware that he must now respond to Assad. If he does not, the binding of his powerful words with practiced impotence will fray his credibility. This will become Obama red lines part deux. Still, whatever he does, Trump’s response must satisfy two criteria. First, it must be overt and significant. Unless Assad and the world recognize America’s response, its strategic import will be limited. Trump must show he means business. Second, the action must serve a broader strategy in Syria. It must be more than a shot in the dark to sate emotional needs.  

From my perspective, three options meet these demands.

Air Strikes on Syrian-Regime Targets

The Syrian government has delineated military and intelligence offices that could be targeted with marginal risk to civilians. Regardless, the top officers in Assad’s inner circle are complicit in his murder. Since the civil war began in 2011, many have been promoted for a simple reason: They have shown skill in torturing and killing their fellow citizens. U.S. and allied intelligence services also closely monitor Assad’s chemical (especially nerve-agent) stockpiles and forces. For the U.S., alongside the British and French air forces, to hit these would send a clear message to the regime. Pursuant to broader strategy, it would also introduce a new calculus for Assad’s overlord, Vladimir Putin. In short, the Russian president would realize that Trump’s Syria negotiating strategy has hard contours. This understanding is crucial. John Kerry’s merry-go-round waltzes with Lavrov prove what happens when Russia believes that the U.S. is irresolute. The Russians strangle the initiative in Assad’s favor. Yes, Assad may try to counter-pressure the United States either via Iranian proxies or Russian harassing actions in northern Syria. If he is truly stupid he may use his own forces to that end. But Trump has insulation in his unpredictability and his greater power. U.S. military forces have the capacity (recently reinforced) in both Iraq and Syria to contest these threats. Moreover, the strategic calculus of both Russia and Iran is ultimately rational. If the U.S. is willing to leverage influence in Syria, they will come to the table ready to compromise. Introduce New Sanctions on Putin and Demand Assad’s Removal I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The Syrian civil war won’t end until Assad goes. Those who present Assad as a necessary bulwark against ISIS are deluded. They ignore the second-order effects of Assad’s bloodletting of Sunnis: fueling ISIS recruitment and escalated support for Salafi-terrorist groups by the Sunni monarchies. But it’s equally important here that Putin understand that Assad is a difficulty rather than a utility. Sanctions on Russian finance in Europe would be a good escalation toward that end. And Theresa May’s British government might support such action (London is the global playground for Russian funny money). Of course, this depends on Trump’s willingness to aggravate Putin and oppose Russian money. Reinforce Rebel Supply Lines from Turkey to the Idlib Governate Idlib province is now the last great bastion of the Sunni rebellion. As such, and as I predicted in December (point four), it was inevitable that the Assad axis would pummel Idlib’s civilian population. But if Trump really wants to bring Assad to kneel, and the Russians to serious negotiations, he must empower moderate rebels in Idlib. Toward that end, he must influence President Erdogan of Turkey. Erdogan has qualified his support for the rebels under pressure from Putin, who has both posed threats to his government and by praised him for his coup-survival skills. And that’s a big problem. Idlib’s border with Turkey is the rebels’ priceless supply line. Fortunately, Trump has sticks and carrots with which to persuade Erdogan. Additionally, Trump should authorize the deployment of anti-air (if user-specific safeguards are applied to prevent non-U.S.-aligned groups from using them) and greater anti-armor capabilities to U.S.-aligned rebel formations in Idlib. This matters not just in empowering greater resistance against Assad but also in helping those groups counterbalance terrorist groups in the governate. At present, those terrorist groups, including Syria’s al-Qaeda affiliate, are dominating the anti-Assad effort. That success sucks manpower, resources, and ideological moderation out of the rebellion. All this said, I suspect that Trump has probably decided on a course of action. Likely the first one. America’s major Sunni partners have been visiting Washington in recent days. The Saudis, Egyptians, and Jordanians will all have told Trump that Assad is incompatible with an end to the Syrian civil war. And King Abdullah of Jordan would have told Trump of the millions of Syrian refugees now living in his nation. More important, Defense Secretary Mattis believes in overt U.S. leadership in the Middle East. And Trump likes Mattis. — Tom Rogan is a columnist for Opportunity Lives and National Review, a former panelist on The McLaughlin Group and a senior fellow at the Steamboat Institute. Email him at Thomas.RoganE@Gmail.com.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/446511/syria-civil-war-gas-attack-assad-trump-united-states-allies-russia-putin

Again, I said the international community, outside of the US and their allies, believe the attack was not orchestrated by Assad. They have very compelling evidence to support that belief.

 

Posting the contents of a US article stating that Assad was responsible does little to advance the discussion I thought we were having.

I ALREADY know what the US papers are saying, hence me bringing up the viewpoints of the rest of the world

 

This is why i believe we're having two different conversations. I doubt you understood what you initially responded to

[ECHS05]

These strikes in Syria are nothing more than a sleight of hand to get the American publics attention off the Trump-Russia connection.

This airstrike did very, very little actual damage to the airfield. We used $110-million dollars in missiles to do a couple hundred thousand dollars of damage.

We didnt WANT to do much damage... we didnt want to cause much harm because we arent doing it to send an actual message to Syria/Russia. It was 100% intended to take the attention off the Trump-Russia scandal and make people think "Trump definitely wouldnt have done that if he was in cahoots with Russia". But what did he really do? Destroy a few planes and put a few holes in the roof of a couple plane hangars? Thats NOTHING compared to the fact he probably changed the mind of 75% of the world about him being in bed with Russia.

Blah. Nonsense. 

I guarantee you... America will do absolutely nothing else in Syria vs  Assad or his government. Bc thats all it took to take the attention away. It'll be tough TALK from here on out. And talk means absolutely shit.

[ECHS05]

21 hours ago, BigDrop said:

They are human beings just like you and I.  Unfortunately this is a country that has had civil war, religious war and essentially terrorist gangs of one kind or another AND a dictator along with outside armies and air forces from Iran and Russia.  

And Trump now thinks he can drag America into this.  For what?  So Americans can be killed?  So $20-50 million dollar planes can be blown up?  So we can spend several billion or more dollars?  What do we get?  Nothing.  Except a larger war, perhaps with Iran or even Russia. What does he get?  Topic is changed and he becomes a war president with the Russians supporting him temporarily off the table, he gets widespread support and his lies are believed while the press is partly silenced.

Trump is going to take us to war with someone; he is doing his best to change every value that this country stands for.  As for the innocent children who were bombed why doesn't he bring them here to our hospitals?  

I am serious:  I believe our ultimate hope will be the Generals and their consciences and their love of the United States.  

 

Like a Syrian citizen just said on CNN ....

"With all due respect, we don't want to come to America, we want to be safe in OUR country."

The answer isnt for EVERY person in the world that lives in a shit hole country to come to America. The answer is to make THEIR country safe for them.

[BigDrop]

There are 28,000 U. S. troops in or near Seoul.  Trump has an aircraft carrier and supporting ships en route.  While I understand that something must be done to restrain North Korea I am frightened that Trump's aggression will exacerbate a truly frightening situation.

Then we have Russia, Iran and Syria.

This isn't posturing for a real estate deal.  There are hundreds of thousands of lives involved in whatever he may attempt or threaten to do.

[Lamarfan]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 11:23 AM, rockinl said:

......Who dodged the Vietnam draft FIVE TIMES.

Carry on.

Doesn't really matter even if he used to be gay. He has the love for  and the nuts to lead America !

[Lamarfan]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 1:20 PM, SOCIntellectualProperty said:

there's a huge possibility Assad does not have chemical weapons..... the only people that believe Assad order those attacks are the Us and their allies

This appears  to be a continuation of spring cleaning ran by our Deep Dtate Government, where neither Obama nor Trump has much to do with (aside from take orders)

LMAO this POS Rice and Obama lied to us about them not having any. They should be in jail for war crimes !

[Lamarfan]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 7:15 PM, TheRealCAJ said:

I really don't know what's left to bomb in Syria.....hell, Assad's not there.

I don't get it in the big picture.

Whole damn country looks like this from the photos and videos I've seen.

 

 

 

Is that Chicago or Detroit ? 

[Lamarfan]

Trump is kicken Dat ass and taken names. You got to love a guy that is trying to do what he said !