Week 7 Tiers

[prepsbill65]

9 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Hi Prepsbill65, you asked some great and very relevant questions which deserve a quality answer.

The goal of The Tiers is to place teams from throughout the country in a grouping with other teams with the same skill set, and team ability.  We don't soley go by records (like the LAZY polls do), but more by how each team performs each week, given the degree of difficulty presented by their opponent.  Hence a close loss verse a proven really good team, will influence upward Tier movement more than a blowout win vs. a proven much lessor team.

Ohio is arguably down this year. 

Iggy - Shut out 0-42 and then losing to a Canadian team.

St. Ed's - Scrapes by Iggy by 3

Mentor - Scrapes by Iggy by 7

Mentor - Scrapes by St. Eds by 1

Just looking at these scores, all three of these teams belong on the same Tier due to the obvious competitive equity between them.  Then by watching video of the teams, I could tell the linemen were smaller than the teams in the higher Tiers, the skill players were not as skilled, which pointed to the Tier grouping to drop.   The final straw for dropping the group was St. Eds only getting 7 points vs. Iggy, which reaffirmed the lack of quality skill guys (game breaking speed or WR ability)

Colerain - loses to St. X by 7, best win is #632 Princton by 9 points

St. X - Beats Colerain by 7, best win is #97 Cathedral by 3 points.

This puts Colerain and St. X in the same Tier, which (giving Colerain the benefit of the doubt) would be in the Top 75-100 range. (Tier 5-6)

 

The fact that these teams play each other, and will give each other losses is irrelevant.  For Example SFA lost to Mater Dei, but is still in Tier 1.  So its proven that losing to a team in the same Tier is not grounds for being demoted.

I am sure that my answer will generate additional questions, so ask away.

Sammy......thank you for your response.

I understand the Tier grouping but I do not agree with some of the logic.

I will take Tier 1 Duncanville, Tier 3 Chander, and Tier 4 West Monroe and briefly compare them to some of the Tier 5 Ohio teams.

Duncanville.....one quality win # 53 JS-DC   SOS  34.3   Opp record 18-19  how are they a Tier 1 team?

Chandler .... best win # 225 Bropy    SOS  33

West Monroe...best win# 845 Neville    SOS  29.9

You can talk speed, size etc but do you really believe these three teams would beat these Ohio teams listed..

Mentor      7-0   SOS  44.1    Opp record  25-17

St. Ed's      6-1   SOS   46.8   Opp record  34-16

St. Iggy      3-4   SOS   64.5   Opp record  35-6

Elder          6-1    SOS   43.2  Opp record   29-21

St X            6-1    SOS   45.2  Opp record   29-16

I put the Opp record in here on the Ohio team because you have a Tier 1 Duncanville team who has played teams with combined losing records.  Let's take your Duncanville, Chandler, and West Monroe teams and tell me why any of those three would beat any of these 5 Ohio teams?   (And I left out a quality Colerain team - sorry).  

I look at these multiple Tier 5 Ohio teams and feel they are much better than you give them credit for, especially the three teams you have Tiered above them.   To me, it is who you play and who you beat.  I do not look at Ohio football being down; I think it is extremely competitive in D1 (and other Divisions) this year, unlike many other states that have one or two dominate teams, and the rest of the teams are average at best.

You slammed St. Ed's for only winning 7-3 over St. Ignatius.  Have you ever watched these two when then play the "Holy War"?

Would you have slammed then if the score was 37-33?   Team do play defense.

Sammy, love what you do and the time you spend doing this, and appreciate your response.  Ohio has some restrictions regarding travel (we know), but who you play is a very important factor, and should carry greater weight in your Tier positioning, IMO  Thanks

 

 

9 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

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[Horsefly]

19 minutes ago, prepsbill65 said:

Sammy......thank you for your response.

I understand the Tier grouping but I do not agree with some of the logic.

I will take Tier 1 Duncanville, Tier 3 Chander, and Tier 4 West Monroe and briefly compare them to some of the Tier 5 Ohio teams.

Duncanville.....one quality win # 53 JS-DC   SOS  34.3   Opp record 18-19  how are they a Tier 1 team?

Chandler .... best win # 225 Bropy    SOS  33

West Monroe...best win# 845 Neville    SOS  29.9

You can talk speed, size etc but do you really believe these three teams would beat these Ohio teams listed..

Mentor      7-0   SOS  44.1    Opp record  25-17

St. Ed's      6-1   SOS   46.8   Opp record  34-16

St. Iggy      3-4   SOS   64.5   Opp record  35-6

Elder          6-1    SOS   43.2  Opp record   29-21

St X            6-1    SOS   45.2  Opp record   29-16

I put the Opp record in here on the Ohio team because you have a Tier 1 Duncanville team who has played teams with combined losing records.  Let's take your Duncanville, Chandler, and West Monroe teams and tell me why any of those three would beat any of these 5 Ohio teams?   (And I left out a quality Colerain team - sorry).  

I look at these multiple Tier 5 Ohio teams and feel they are much better than you give them credit for, especially the three teams you have Tiered above them.   To me, it is who you play and who you beat.  I do not look at Ohio football being down; I think it is extremely competitive in D1 (and other Divisions) this year, unlike many other states that have one or two dominate teams, and the rest of the teams are average at best.

You slammed St. Ed's for only winning 7-3 over St. Ignatius.  Have you ever watched these two when then play the "Holy War"?

Would you have slammed then if the score was 37-33?   Team do play defense.

Sammy, love what you do and the time you spend doing this, and appreciate your response.  Ohio has some restrictions regarding travel (we know), but who you play is a very important factor, and should carry greater weight in your Tier positioning, IMO  Thanks

 

 

 

You can watch the teams play and also come to a conclusion.  I’ve seen st X, colerain, Iggy and St Ed’s. 

Have you seen play any of the teams you are calling out or are you simply doing a paper exercise?  

[Rufus69]

22 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

Cumberland National Seashore and maybe a brief excursion across the bridge to Duval county to some little  place called St. Mary's seafood And More I hear talk of at times. I don't know about that yet though. Still looking at eateries. Maybe some on the Georgia side are better. 

 

I heard "somewheres" a rumor that Bullet Bob attended a Justin Rogers coaching clinic one time. He knows all our secrets already. 

Oh Woe Is Us may be an understatement.

Amigo...stay out of Duval County.  Go to the St. Mary's Seafood on 40 between St. Mary's and Kingsland.  Now somebody will tell ya to go on into St. Mary's and eat at Lang's.  But don't do that on a Friday evening.  Ms. Violet and I eat seafood all the time...so we're going to The Millhouse Restaurant.  

And to add to your rumor...I just hope Bullet Bob don't return the favor to Justin this Friday night.

 

 

Rufus>>

[HawgGoneIt]

7 minutes ago, Rufus69 said:

Amigo...stay out of Duval County.  Go to the St. Mary's Seafood on 40 between St. Mary's and Kingsland.  Now somebody will tell ya to go on into St. Mary's and eat at Lang's.  But don't do that on a Friday evening.  Ms. Violet and I eat seafood all the time...so we're going to The Millhouse Restaurant.  

And to add to your rumor...I just hope Bullet Bob don't return the favor to Justin this Friday night.

 

 

Rufus>>

I'm probably doing the seafood on Saturday. I figure my Friday is full with travel and dragging my butt and big durned bell up the stands at Gilman. 

Probably stop for some South Georgia Fine Dining at Chic-Fil-A in Waycross on the way over.  Maybe a greasy spoon joint like Waffle House, Huddle House or IHOP after the game.

I know better than to wait until I get to Gilman. They were out of food on the visitor side before kickoff last time. I blame @Camcat88

 

[OdbCle]

Ed's offensive line:  LT Ronan Chambers 6'6 275 (Akron commit), G Nate Stuart 6'2 285, C Devin Crowder 6'0 260, G Chris Moran 6'3 320, RT Brian Kilbane 6'4 274 (Bowling Green commit)

Iggy has similar beef, as I'm sure X does. Elder is even bigger and has a couple power 5 guys on the line and one of the best receiving TE's in the country. Not sure where this small talk is coming from. 

I won't disagree that this not a banner year for the Buckeye state. I've been saying that since the preseason. However, the day we start putting Illinois teams on a tier above Ohio's best, I will take issue. Someone will have to tell me if LWE's roster on maxpreps is accurate, but I don't see a guy above 255 on the roster. And don't they routinely lose to one of the Catholic programs in the playoffs year after year? Like the Loyola team that Ignatius beat. 

[prepsbill65]

19 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

You can watch the teams play and also come to a conclusion.  I’ve seen st X, colerain, Iggy and St Ed’s. 

Have you seen play any of the teams you are calling out or are you simply doing a paper exercise?  

No, I have not seen Duncanville, Chandler, or West Monroe play this year.  I have seen Katy twice this year.  In the last 3 years have seen games in Cali, Texas, Georgia, Florida, New Jersey, as well as Indiana, Kentucky and Ohio.   I enjoy how HS football is played around the country.  

Have you seen Duncanville, Chandler, or West Monroe play?  If so, good.  I just picked those 3 teams at random as a comparison.  I could have chosen 3 others, it did not matter.  But when I looked at those teams, the first thing I saw was their SOS.  Very average at best.  So their won-loss records were simiilar to the 5-6 Ohio teams, but SOS was not close,  so why are they a Tier 1, 3, and 4 and 6  Ohio teams at Tier 5.   That is my question to Sammy.  What is his deciding factor in this comparision?   Simply question.

 

[nptb17]

1 hour ago, prepsbill65 said:

Sammy......thank you for your response.

I understand the Tier grouping but I do not agree with some of the logic.

I will take Tier 1 Duncanville, Tier 3 Chander, and Tier 4 West Monroe and briefly compare them to some of the Tier 5 Ohio teams.

Duncanville.....one quality win # 53 JS-DC   SOS  34.3   Opp record 18-19  how are they a Tier 1 team?

Chandler .... best win # 225 Bropy    SOS  33

West Monroe...best win# 845 Neville    SOS  29.9

You can talk speed, size etc but do you really believe these three teams would beat these Ohio teams listed..

Mentor      7-0   SOS  44.1    Opp record  25-17

St. Ed's      6-1   SOS   46.8   Opp record  34-16

St. Iggy      3-4   SOS   64.5   Opp record  35-6

Elder          6-1    SOS   43.2  Opp record   29-21

St X            6-1    SOS   45.2  Opp record   29-16

I put the Opp record in here on the Ohio team because you have a Tier 1 Duncanville team who has played teams with combined losing records.  Let's take your Duncanville, Chandler, and West Monroe teams and tell me why any of those three would beat any of these 5 Ohio teams?   (And I left out a quality Colerain team - sorry).  

I look at these multiple Tier 5 Ohio teams and feel they are much better than you give them credit for, especially the three teams you have Tiered above them.   To me, it is who you play and who you beat.  I do not look at Ohio football being down; I think it is extremely competitive in D1 (and other Divisions) this year, unlike many other states that have one or two dominate teams, and the rest of the teams are average at best.

You slammed St. Ed's for only winning 7-3 over St. Ignatius.  Have you ever watched these two when then play the "Holy War"?

Would you have slammed then if the score was 37-33?   Team do play defense.

Sammy, love what you do and the time you spend doing this, and appreciate your response.  Ohio has some restrictions regarding travel (we know), but who you play is a very important factor, and should carry greater weight in your Tier positioning, IMO  Thanks

 

 

 

Duncanville would be favored over everyone in Ohio. Mentor, St. Edward, Hoban, Elder and Pickerington Central would be best hopes for a win.  If it was a pickem game, I would only take Pickerington Central over Duncanville because Pickerington Central always finds a way to win OOS games.  Duncanville is a bad example.  

Sammy doesn't know wtf he's talking about for the most part.  He has no response for Servite being a play and a two point conversion away from beating tier 1 SJB.  Servite sucks.

[Sammyswordsman]

1 hour ago, prepsbill65 said:

Sammy......thank you for your response.

I understand the Tier grouping but I do not agree with some of the logic.

I will take Tier 1 Duncanville, Tier 3 Chander, and Tier 4 West Monroe and briefly compare them to some of the Tier 5 Ohio teams.

Duncanville.....one quality win # 53 JS-DC   SOS  34.3   Opp record 18-19  how are they a Tier 1 team?

Chandler .... best win # 225 Bropy    SOS  33

West Monroe...best win# 845 Neville    SOS  29.9

You can talk speed, size etc but do you really believe these three teams would beat these Ohio teams listed..

Mentor      7-0   SOS  44.1    Opp record  25-17

St. Ed's      6-1   SOS   46.8   Opp record  34-16

St. Iggy      3-4   SOS   64.5   Opp record  35-6

Elder          6-1    SOS   43.2  Opp record   29-21

St X            6-1    SOS   45.2  Opp record   29-16

I put the Opp record in here on the Ohio team because you have a Tier 1 Duncanville team who has played teams with combined losing records.  Let's take your Duncanville, Chandler, and West Monroe teams and tell me why any of those three would beat any of these 5 Ohio teams?   (And I left out a quality Colerain team - sorry).  

I look at these multiple Tier 5 Ohio teams and feel they are much better than you give them credit for, especially the three teams you have Tiered above them.   To me, it is who you play and who you beat.  I do not look at Ohio football being down; I think it is extremely competitive in D1 (and other Divisions) this year, unlike many other states that have one or two dominate teams, and the rest of the teams are average at best.

You slammed St. Ed's for only winning 7-3 over St. Ignatius.  Have you ever watched these two when then play the "Holy War"?

Would you have slammed then if the score was 37-33?   Team do play defense.

Sammy, love what you do and the time you spend doing this, and appreciate your response.  Ohio has some restrictions regarding travel (we know), but who you play is a very important factor, and should carry greater weight in your Tier positioning, IMO  Thanks

 

 

 

I appreciate this discussion.  The LAZY polls will never engage in this type of conversation to justify their rankings.

You have some very valid points regarding some of the teams you pointed out, as well as the question related to the Tier Ohio is on compared to teams in the Tier above them. 

First I want to challenge your SOS position.

You cite the winning records of the opponents of the top Ohio schools, but it you look 1 level deeper you see that those records are mostly not relaveant due to the opponent quality.

For Example look at the Top Ohio schools best wins (outside of the interplay with each other):

Mentor - Best Win is Medina.  Medina is 5-2 but their BEST win is vs. #732

Eds - Best win is Winter Woods.  WW is 5-2 but their wins are vs. #414, #1269, #1372, etc.

Iggy - Best win is Loyola (5-2).  Loyola best win is #900

St. X - Only beat #1377 by 3 points.

Elder - has the best win in Cathedral but lost badly to Eds  

Regarding the other teams you mentioned.

Duncanville is defending Texas 6a Finalists and have an solid win over a Tier 3 SJC team which beat SJP.

Chandler - Not truly vetted yet, but are a traditional power and have been rolling their schedule so far.

West Monroe - Stayed within 10 points of Tier 2 Longview and has been rolling everyone else.

I have been watching "Holy Wars" for quite some time, so I know about rivalry games.  This is the same excuse the BNU guys use for explaining away teams with no offensive firepower.  There is no bigger Holy War right now than MD vs SJB, and those teams still put up points.   St. Eds only garnering a measly 7 points vs Iggy (LAST WEEK), when every other team Iggy has played, has had much more offensive success averaging 30 points vs. Iggy.  This may be partly attributed to Holy War game flow, but still raises questions about Ed's current ability to score against good teams.

Ohio is very competitive at the Top end.  No question.  But the challenge is where does Ohio fit in on a Tier with other National teams.

Tier 5 may be too low for Ohio,  The State got moved down because of the Eds vs. Iggy game result, and the added scrutiny Ohio got because of that.  Other teams you mentioned will get scrutinized this week, and we will see what happens.

 

 

[Sammyswordsman]

8 minutes ago, nptb17 said:

Duncanville would be favored over everyone in Ohio. Mentor, St. Edward, Hoban, Elder and Pickerington Central would be best hopes for a win.  If it was a pickem game, I would only take Pickerington Central over Duncanville because Pickerington Central always finds a way to win OOS games.  Duncanville is a bad example.  

Sammy doesn't know wtf he's talking about for the most part.  He has no response for Servite being a play and a two point conversion away from beating tier 1 SJB.  Servite sucks.

SJB boat raced Dematha 35-7.  The same DeMatha clobbered Ohio #2 Iggy 42-0. 

Explain that.

[nptb17]

1 minute ago, Sammyswordsman said:

SJB boat raced Dematha 35-7.  The same DeMatha clobbered Ohio #2 Iggy 42-0. 

Explain that.

St. X blew out the Canadian team who beat St. Ignatius.  St. X was easily defeated by Elder. St. Edward smoked Elder.  St. Edward escaped St. Ignatius.  Hoban was beating the brakes off of St. Ignatius before an obvious brain fart. St. Ignatius now has 2 losses to Ohio squads.  How can the be 2?  Is Servite 3 in Cali?

I was wrong about Ignatius vs Dematha.  I accept that.  You were right for once but were scared to take a bet you would have won going away because you don't believe most of the stuff you post with the tiers.

[Sammyswordsman]

2 minutes ago, nptb17 said:

 

I was wrong about Ignatius vs Dematha.  I accept that.  You were right for once but were scared to take a bet you would have won going away because you don't believe most of the stuff you post with the tiers.

LOL.   I don't condone bets that force the loser (you) to be banned from posting for a week. 

 

[Sammyswordsman]

3 minutes ago, nptb17 said:

St. X blew out the Canadian team who beat St. Ignatius.  St. X was easily defeated by Elder. St. Edward smoked Elder.  St. Edward escaped St. Ignatius.  Hoban was beating the brakes off of St. Ignatius before an obvious brain fart. St. Ignatius now has 2 losses to Ohio squads.

All this circular firing squad shows is that the Ohio teams are relatively equal, or in parity with each other.  No one is disputing that.  The question is where does this group fit in Nationally?  As of last week, I could not find an argument for placing this group above Tier 5. 

So far you have not attempted to give me an argument to support a higher placement

[Horsefly]

1 hour ago, prepsbill65 said:

No, I have not seen Duncanville, Chandler, or West Monroe play this year.  I have seen Katy twice this year.  In the last 3 years have seen games in Cali, Texas, Georgia, Florida, New Jersey, as well as Indiana, Kentucky and Ohio.   I enjoy how HS football is played around the country.  

Have you seen Duncanville, Chandler, or West Monroe play?  If so, good.  I just picked those 3 teams at random as a comparison.  I could have chosen 3 others, it did not matter.  But when I looked at those teams, the first thing I saw was their SOS.  Very average at best.  So their won-loss records were simiilar to the 5-6 Ohio teams, but SOS was not close,  so why are they a Tier 1, 3, and 4 and 6  Ohio teams at Tier 5.   That is my question to Sammy.  What is his deciding factor in this comparision?   Simply question.

 

My point was a tier assessment can be gained from watching the teams via live or tape.  I’m not defending one position or another.  Relying on SOS doesn’t have to be the sole criteria, which in all honesty is based on human “ranking” of teams. 

Ive seen Longview and WM play this year but not chandler.  

 

[Texasboys23]

Honestly everyone has valid points, but it all boils down to the fact that you can't compare football games from common opponents.  This team ran the ball for 43 more yards than this team and won by 8 more points so they can beat that team that only beat the other team by 2 points.  LOL it sounds silly.  Many teams a scenario as such as happened and the team you expected to lose wins by 21.  A bowl series of some sorts would be a great way to find out who is number 1, but whats the point?  

[Omaha Vol]

36 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

SJB boat raced Dematha 35-7.  The same DeMatha clobbered Ohio #2 Iggy 42-0. 

Explain that.

So, are insinuating that SJB would beat St. Iggy by 70 points? I guess Servite would clobber both DM and St. Iggy? I can daisy chain like this every week to justify my “lazy” poll (as you so graciously like to call it).  I just refuse to do that. I look more into the individual games and the conditions surrounding them (ie rivalry games like the Holy War, coaches running up the score, injuries, etc.). 
 

And please people, stop using SOS as the ONLY factor that determines a team’s worth. All you have to do is look at Lakeland from last year to squash that theory. 

[Sammyswordsman]

7 hours ago, Omaha Vol said:

So, are insinuating that SJB would beat St. Iggy by 70 points?  - NO.  Why would you infer that?

 

 

I guess Servite would clobber both DM and St. Iggy?  Never said that either

I can daisy chain like this every week to justify my “lazy” poll (as you so graciously like to call it).  You show your laziness by your two comments above.  That may be how you operate, but not The Tiers.

 

 I just refuse to do that. I look more into the individual games and the conditions surrounding them (ie rivalry games like the Holy War, coaches running up the score, injuries, etc.).  You look into minutia, most of which is less relevant than actual on the field results.   Plus you only factor in this minutia when giving the benefit of the doubt to your  small market teams in the midwest
 

And please people, stop using SOS as the ONLY factor that determines a team’s worth.   Once again, The Tiers do NOT "only" use OOS records.  But they must be factored in.  You can't pick which games count, like you have Subway make your turkey "plain" sandwich.

All you have to do is look at Lakeland from last year to squash that theory.  Lakeland is a big mystery and has been sliding down The Tiers because of that, and their play over the past two weeks.

 

[prepsbill65]

Sammy... you stated:

 

Tier 5 may be too low for Ohio,  The State got moved down because of the Eds vs. Iggy game result, and the added scrutiny Ohio got because of that.  Other teams you mentioned will get scrutinized this week, and we will see what happens.

 

Do not mean to drag this conversation out.... but the above statement.  The State got moved down...... do you mean these Ohio teams (as a group) were moved down because of the 7-3 St. Ed's win....and the added scrutiny???    I am not even going to ask about  the "added scrutiny"  comment.    Thanks.

[Sammyswordsman]

1 hour ago, prepsbill65 said:

Sammy... you stated:

 

Tier 5 may be too low for Ohio,  The State got moved down because of the Eds vs. Iggy game result, and the added scrutiny Ohio got because of that.  Other teams you mentioned will get scrutinized this week, and we will see what happens.

 

Do not mean to drag this conversation out.... but the above statement.  The State got moved down...... do you mean these Ohio teams (as a group) were moved down because of the 7-3 St. Ed's win....and the added scrutiny???    I am not even going to ask about  the "added scrutiny"  comment.    Thanks.

Yes. The State of Ohio was on probation after Iggy lost to DeMatha and the Canadian team.  

Once the Ed’s score 7-3 came in, I watched more film on ALL the Ohio top teams while deciding what to do.  Since OHio guys like Hardhit and Omaha Vol made no mention of the game, It appeared they were trying to lay low and hope no one noticed.

The films confirmed the lack of explosiveness on offense and lack of over all team speed.   The Lines and backers appeared to be undersized along with the DB’s compared to other states. Top teams  

[Coletrain06]

1 hour ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Yes. The State of Ohio was on probation after Iggy lost to DeMatha and the Canadian team.  

Once the Ed’s score 7-3 came in, I watched more film on ALL the Ohio top teams while deciding what to do.  Since OHio guys like Hardhit and Omaha Vol made no mention of the game, It appeared they were trying to lay low and hope no one noticed.

The films confirmed the lack of explosiveness on offense and lack of over all team speed.   The Lines and backers appeared to be undersized along with the DB’s compared to other states. Top teams  

The lines and backers are not undersized at all. Eds, Iggy, & Elder all have pretty massive lines. The only lines I've seen that are bigger are some of your Tier 1's. 

A lot of our top teams aren't very fast or explosive. Some are. I've seen many of the nation's most explosive teams/programs come to Ohio and play some of our slowest teams, and the coaching was entirely the difference in what should have been a blowout. 

Some of the the top tier 1 and tier 2 teams combine extreme explosiveness with great coaching and they are truly a different animal. But there's certainly not 4 tiers of teams on that level. Probably only like a dozen at most. 

[abbatt]

OdbCle,

Here is LWE`s starting OF and Def lines.......

Of...6`4..265.....6`1..290....6`3..265...6`4...270...6`2..250

Def...5`11...255...6`2..270.....6`7...245....6`2..230.

LWE may not have the big trucks on the line like Ed`s...but they play more of a speed game...they are most definitely faster and quicker than Ed`s or any top team in Ohio.. I have watched  Ed`s/Mentor....Ignatius/DeMatha....Ignatius/Rockledige ..Eldr/ St. Xavier..LWE lost to Loyola once in the play-offs ....last year in the semis....and beat Loyola in the state championship game the year before...That was the year that LA  minus 7 starters  beat Bishop Amat.

Loyola played Iggy without any scrimmages prior to the first game......They had a TD called back and surely lost another one because of bad timing between the QB and receiver. I`d like to see how the top teams in Ohio or any state would do in their first game without the benefit of pre-season scrimmages.

Loyola is quite a different team now since they played Ignatius.....They have a different QB....2 new Rb`s....2 new OF linemen and 2 new Def linemen.... and a starting LB that was injured and didn`t play against Ignatius.

[Wosinc]

19 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

 

The fact that these teams play each other, and will give each other losses is irrelevant.  For Example SFA lost to Mater Dei, but is still in Tier 1.  So its proven that losing to a team in the same Tier is not grounds for being demoted.

I am sure that my answer will generate additional questions, so ask away.

.

 

 

Are you really this disingenuous or are you just funning?

This is the most self-serving, nugatory piece of circular reasoning I have seen in a long time.

YOU make the “tiers.”  YOU kept SFA in “tier 1.”

To turn around and cite that as proof that a team can lose to a team in the same “tier” and not be demoted is asinine, not to mention dishonest.

[nptb17]

47 minutes ago, abbatt said:

OdbCle,

Here is LWE`s starting OF and Def lines.......

Of...6`4..265.....6`1..290....6`3..265...6`4...270...6`2..250

Def...5`11...255...6`2..270.....6`7...245....6`2..230.

LWE may not have the big trucks on the line like Ed`s...but they play more of a speed game...they are most definitely faster and quicker than Ed`s or any top team in Ohio.. I have watched  Ed`s/Mentor....Ignatius/DeMatha....Ignatius/Rockledige ..Eldr/ St. Xavier..LWE lost to Loyola once in the play-offs ....last year in the semis....and beat Loyola in the state championship game the year before...That was the year that LA  minus 7 starters  beat Bishop Amat.

Loyola played Iggy without any scrimmages prior to the first game......They had a TD called back and surely lost another one because of bad timing between the QB and receiver. I`d like to see how the top teams in Ohio or any state would do in their first game without the benefit of pre-season scrimmages.

Loyola is quite a different team now since they played Ignatius.....They have a different QB....2 new Rb`s....2 new OF linemen and 2 new Def linemen.... and a starting LB that was injured and didn`t play against Ignatius.

Bolingbrook must have a ton of speed to hold LWE to 20 points.  

[abbatt]

nptb17,

Yes...Bolingbrook is fast and athletic....it`s also a fierce rivalry game and it was at Bolingbrook......Homewood-Flossmoor...LWE and Bolingbrook are all in the same conference....LWE beat H-F this year  28-14......H-F is loaded with speed and athletes as well.....I know that you were trying to be sarcastic in your comment....but your statement  about Bolingbrook  was correct.

[nptb17]

1 hour ago, abbatt said:

nptb17,

Yes...Bolingbrook is fast and athletic....it`s also a fierce rivalry game and it was at Bolingbrook......Homewood-Flossmoor...LWE and Bolingbrook are all in the same conference....LWE beat H-F this year  28-14......H-F is loaded with speed and athletes as well.....I know that you were trying to be sarcastic in your comment....but your statement  about Bolingbrook  was correct.

Homewood and St. X played Penn out of Indiana in back to back weeks.  Penn got beat by similar scores by both teams but St. X burried them a lot earlier than Homewood.  What does it all mean?  Not a damn thing.  I'm not going to make some ridiculous statement like you tend to do.

[abbatt]

nptb17,

You absolutely crack me up.......what ridiculous statement did i make ??? teams beat other teams by means unique to those teams. You`er right ...comparing the scores doesn`t mean to much...but it does mean something.You`er comment about Bolingbrook was meant to be sarcastic....but it was a true statement about Bolingbrook even though you didin`t intend it to be.

I feel that if Sammy`s Tiers are considered legit than he has Ohio wrong......all of those teams in tier 5 should be in tier 4...He is neglecting the high level of coaching and execution by those teams.

When Independence, NC had their 102 game winning streak snapped by Elder 20-17....the INd. coach said that Elder was the best coached team that his team had ever faced.The same was said by the Lakeland FL. coach after they beat St.Ignatius 25-22. Now those games were played 7-8 years ago...but the high level of coaching in Ohio remains constant......just the quality of talent has slipped some.