noonereal Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, Bormio said: Just like they were inclined to end Obamacare How do you feel about DACA? I personally have no strong opinion on it. I think both sides have a valid argument. What I do resent is people like the OP who are zealots against. Vindictive like in approach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted November 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 23 minutes ago, Cat_Scratch said: I'm talking about the illegal children brought here 20 or so years ago and have assimilated in to our society. Not the adults crossing illegally now with children. To be honest though, the children are caught in the middle and that is very sad. Either way they are not as American as u. Just like the illegals that come here to have kids that needs to end too. Birthright citizenship. Idk why trump hasnt ended that bullshit either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 49 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: Either way they are not as American as u. Just like the illegals that come here to have kids that needs to end too. Birthright citizenship. Idk why trump hasnt ended that bullshit either American defined as what, are we American b/c of birthright ONLY or can we be American based on service to our communities and the country? do you feel the same for those 1K or so DACA that served in the military? Are they American enough? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 10 hours ago, World Citizen said: Good post but what opportunities for breakthroughs are you talking about specifically? Israel-Palestine - moving the embassy to Jerusalem/formally recognizing it as the capital was a big deal. Took a huge issue off the table for the Palestinians (who IMHO have no actual interest in peace). But even still, then he appoints Jared as the negotiator in charge of any potential peace process and makes sure it’s dead before it ever began? 🤦♂️ North Korea - meet with Kim. Same as Obama did with Cuba, Iran, etc. Trump admitted that reality is real, i.e. Kim is in firm control and any chance of peace/denuclearization is gonna start and end with him. Again, DPRK isn’t a good faith actor but Trump apparently disregarded or ignored any briefing on the region and thought he could sweet talk Kim into an agreement. Immigration - He came out so hard for a wall (the effectiveness, cost, and image of which is all negative) and deportation that he gave himself a lot of room to make concessions in return for serious birder security guarantees, employment verification, reforming asylum/INS legal system, etc (a “grand bargain” if you will). Again I don’t think Chuck and The Nance are good faith actors but the fact that The Master Negotiator©️®️™️ Couldn’t get it done and apparently loses his shit in every meeting with them speaks to his own failure to close the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueliner Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, Horsefly said: American defined as what, are we American b/c of birthright ONLY or can we be American based on service to our communities and the country? do you feel the same for those 1K or so DACA that served in the military? Are they American enough? Defined as being an American by proof of citizenship. And those who actually want to become citizens will get help to do so before being deported. If any served in the military or some kind of community service that showed that they're proud to be an American, they automatically stay, no question. Other than that, they should have to go through the process of citizenship. Ya got 2 years....if you aren't done, seeya. It would be an illegal that was given a great opportunity, but didn't get shit together (or care enough) if they get deported. Abolish anchor-baby provisions (among other much-needed revisions of immigration policies). And continue to build the wall so we don't have to continue to go through this shit for generations to come. This really isn't rocket science. EVERYONE (but dems for losing votes) can be happy if we all just make a concerted effort to fix this problem from top to bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Blueliner said: Defined as being an American by proof of citizenship. And those who actually want to become citizens will get help to do so before being deported. If any served in the military or some kind of community service that showed that they're proud to be an American, they automatically stay, no question. Other than that, they should have to go through the process of citizenship. Ya got 2 years....if you aren't done, seeya. It would be an illegal that was given a great opportunity, but didn't get shit together (or care enough) if they get deported. Abolish anchor-baby provisions (among other much-needed revisions of immigration policies). And continue to build the wall so we don't have to continue to go through this shit for generations to come. This really isn't rocket science. EVERYONE (but dems for losing votes) can be happy if we all just make a concerted effort to fix this problem from top to bottom. If we truly want to fix the problem we work across the aisle with those traditionally opposed to our viewpoints. The constant finger pointing and name calling is tiresome BS that wouldn’t be tolerated in any other sector of society. thats the reason I think politicians are scum, they create division and highlight differences publicly to garner partisan support. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueliner Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 48 minutes ago, Horsefly said: If we truly want to fix the problem we work across the aisle with those traditionally opposed to our viewpoints. The constant finger pointing and name calling is tiresome BS that wouldn’t be tolerated in any other sector of society. thats the reason I think politicians are scum, they create division and highlight differences publicly to garner partisan support. Exactly. Unfortunately, all of our younger gens are witnessing how these politicians are treating each other on live TV. It’s all too normal now. There’s so many things that could truly easily be fixed....but we all “hate” each other so much to do anything about them. At some point we have to say enough is enough or we’re effed. ...and soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted November 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Horsefly said: American defined as what, are we American b/c of birthright ONLY or can we be American based on service to our communities and the country? do you feel the same for those 1K or so DACA that served in the military? Are they American enough? We just deported a marine who served but did not do the proper things to stay in this country legally. If your not here thr proper way bye bye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted November 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Blueliner said: Defined as being an American by proof of citizenship. And those who actually want to become citizens will get help to do so before being deported. If any served in the military or some kind of community service that showed that they're proud to be an American, they automatically stay, no question. Other than that, they should have to go through the process of citizenship. Ya got 2 years....if you aren't done, seeya. It would be an illegal that was given a great opportunity, but didn't get shit together (or care enough) if they get deported. Abolish anchor-baby provisions (among other much-needed revisions of immigration policies). And continue to build the wall so we don't have to continue to go through this shit for generations to come. This really isn't rocket science. EVERYONE (but dems for losing votes) can be happy if we all just make a concerted effort to fix this problem from top to bottom. Marine was just deported bye bye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: We just deported a marine who served but did not do the proper things to stay in this country legally. If your not here thr proper way bye bye That’s fine, but that wasn’t my question. If he served with distinction that doesn’t mean he’s less of an American who is only here by birthright but doesn’t do crap for society. IMO, if he was asked to potentially risk his life for US policy to have his citizenship hung up through beaucracy is BS. I’m taking exception to your “less American” comment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Citizen Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 6 hours ago, Hardcore Troubador said: Israel-Palestine - moving the embassy to Jerusalem/formally recognizing it as the capital was a big deal. Took a huge issue off the table for the Palestinians (who IMHO have no actual interest in peace). But even still, then he appoints Jared as the negotiator in charge of any potential peace process and makes sure it’s dead before it ever began? 🤦♂️ North Korea - meet with Kim. Same as Obama did with Cuba, Iran, etc. Trump admitted that reality is real, i.e. Kim is in firm control and any chance of peace/denuclearization is gonna start and end with him. Again, DPRK isn’t a good faith actor but Trump apparently disregarded or ignored any briefing on the region and thought he could sweet talk Kim into an agreement. IMHO, you just can't sweet talk a brutal murderer who seems intent on keeping his power and the so called 'love letter' between the two was strange and hilarious and disturbing all at the same time. Immigration - He came out so hard for a wall (the effectiveness, cost, and image of which is all negative) and deportation that he gave himself a lot of room to make concessions in return for serious birder security guarantees, employment verification, reforming asylum/INS legal system, etc (a “grand bargain” if you will). Again I don’t think Chuck and The Nance are good faith actors but the fact that The Master Negotiator©️®️™️ Couldn’t get it done and apparently loses his shit in every meeting with them speaks to his own failure to close the deal. Thank you and I truly appreciate the thoughtful reply. I disagree with Chuck and Nancy being bad faith actors and I think they were ready to agree to a deal but at the last minute Trump backed away. I agree 100% that Trump left an incredible amount of room to make concessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 6 hours ago, HSFBfan said: We just deported a marine who served but did not do the proper things to stay in this country legally. If your not here thr proper way bye bye never made a mistake in your life, cool! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecPadre Posted November 13, 2019 Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 8 hours ago, Blueliner said: Defined as being an American by proof of citizenship. And those who actually want to become citizens will get help to do so before being deported. If any served in the military or some kind of community service that showed that they're proud to be an American, they automatically stay, no question. Other than that, they should have to go through the process of citizenship. Ya got 2 years....if you aren't done, seeya. It would be an illegal that was given a great opportunity, but didn't get shit together (or care enough) if they get deported. Abolish anchor-baby provisions (among other much-needed revisions of immigration policies). And continue to build the wall so we don't have to continue to go through this shit for generations to come. This really isn't rocket science. EVERYONE (but dems for losing votes) can be happy if we all just make a concerted effort to fix this problem from top to bottom. Wow. I honestly never knew you had this much hatred in you. Especially being a DLS kat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueliner Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 3 hours ago, AztecPadre said: Wow. I honestly never knew you had this much hatred in you. Especially being a DLS kat. Hatred? Or respect for the laws and sovereignty of our great country. Perhaps I hold dear to my heart the people that sacrificed a hell of a lot more than us to create and maintain this great nation. Hate? Nah. Those are your words, not mine. However, admittedly, I do have an increasing disdain for individuals that arbitrarily believe that the law and order doesn't apply to them. That said, I promise that I'll continue to ask God to take away ever-increasing pissed offness at certain individuals (party). I'm not perfect just like everyone else. It's a fine balance, because unlike how you're portraying me, I have much compassion for my fellow man. For the past 29 years I've devoted myself to profession that enables me to serve my fellow man more than I possibly could have imagined, and will continue once I leave this profession fairly soon. That's why I know, and comfortable knowing, that compassion cannot come at the price of lawlessness and disobedience. It's not going to work. Trust me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted November 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 10 hours ago, Hardcore Troubador said: Israel-Palestine - moving the embassy to Jerusalem/formally recognizing it as the capital was a big deal. Took a huge issue off the table for the Palestinians (who IMHO have no actual interest in peace). But even still, then he appoints Jared as the negotiator in charge of any potential peace process and makes sure it’s dead before it ever began? 🤦♂️ North Korea - meet with Kim. Same as Obama did with Cuba, Iran, etc. Trump admitted that reality is real, i.e. Kim is in firm control and any chance of peace/denuclearization is gonna start and end with him. Again, DPRK isn’t a good faith actor but Trump apparently disregarded or ignored any briefing on the region and thought he could sweet talk Kim into an agreement. Immigration - He came out so hard for a wall (the effectiveness, cost, and image of which is all negative) and deportation that he gave himself a lot of room to make concessions in return for serious birder security guarantees, employment verification, reforming asylum/INS legal system, etc (a “grand bargain” if you will). Again I don’t think Chuck and The Nance are good faith actors but the fact that The Master Negotiator©️®️™️ Couldn’t get it done and apparently loses his shit in every meeting with them speaks to his own failure to close the deal. See I actually agree with the Palestinians. As far as I know we took their land to make israel. So why shouldn't the Palestinians fight for their land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolebull813 Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 I never understood for the life of me how people can pick and choose what laws we are supposed to obey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 45 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said: I never understood for the life of me how people can pick and choose what laws we are supposed to obey. Are all laws necessarily virtuous and moral? And if you think they are, who decides they are? I say this, b/c at one time our laws supported one group or another being oppressed by others. Because they were laws of the land were they then moral? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted November 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 16 hours ago, Nolebull813 said: I never understood for the life of me how people can pick and choose what laws we are supposed to obey. DACA was never law. It was an EO by Obama. He never went to Congress. And trump has every right to end it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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