Is Diversity A Weakness Or A Strength

[HawgGoneIt]

6 hours ago, DevilDog said:

If people read and studied anything other than American His-Story.  They would drop a lot of the Facade.   On 2nd thought they probably wouldn't.  Diversity has been a blessing to America.  The most Diverse Nation on earth is the the Most Prosperous AND POWERFUL.   

The Navajo Code Talkers (Marines) were instrumental in winning WWII because their Language was so unique the Japanese couldn't decode it.  Diversity

Garret Morgan a black man whose invention led to the Gas Mask Saving lives in WWII.  Diversity

Charles Drew and Blood Plasma leading to Transfusions saving lives to this day.  Diversity\

The Arabs giving us Algebra and our Number system.  Diversity.  You damn sure don't count like this I, II, III, IV

You count 1, 2, 3, 4,  That came from the Arabs.  Diversity. 

And all the wonderful things that many Europeans contributed to the world THAT WE ALL PROFIT FROM. Diversity. 

It's not really worth arguing about with some of these guys. They're either ignorant or pretend to be. 

Diversity is certainly a strength, whether it's your portfolio or the think tank that's brainstorming for the next huge innovative thing that propels America forward again. 

The entire premise that diversity is a weakness is about the dumbest thing said on here. Maybe ever.

[DevilDog]

6 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

It's not really worth arguing about with some of these guys. They're either ignorant or pretend to be. 

Diversity is certainly a strength, whether it's your portfolio or the think tank that's brainstorming for the next huge innovative thing that propels America forward again. 

The entire prenise that diversity is a weakness is about the dumbest thing said on here. Maybe ever.

I been to 17 countries and minus the 4 Arab ones.  I will attest Diversity is very good.  Very very good 🤣

[Nolebull813]

You guys are just posting personal experiences as if that is the fool proof blanket statements that apply to everyone. 

The word diversity is so vague. Probably one of the most broad and vague terms out there. There are definitely instances and examples of where different amounts of options is a good thing. 

Brothels, buffets, uniform combinations, etc. Lol. 

I’m only talking about the instance where the word is primarily used. And that is for mass immigration.  Importing and flooding the country with as many immigrants as possible doesn’t make the country stronger. 

 This country is not so ignorant and incompetent that we need foreigners to come teach us how it’s done. 

 A lot of European nations have open their borders for the sake of diversity and it has backfired tremendously.  Gang rapes bombings and stabbings are common now. It’s just part and parcel I guess. 

Not one person in this thread has given a good excuse as to why America should mass absorb foreigners.  Some have elite skills and are educated but the majority of them are middle to low skilled.  Why should we import middle to low skilled people to compete with our middle and lower class? 

 You selfish pricks that it doesn’t affect just pat yourself on the back why most common Americans suffer from this.  Government agencies, hospitals, schools etc  feel the wrath of mass immigration and since it doesn’t affect any of you, you could care less. 

 You only care about the end result and that is to keep Democrats in power to push your left-wing ideals.  Such a terrible ass backwards way of thinking 

[World Citizen]

16 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

You guys are just posting personal experiences as if that is the fool proof blanket statements that apply to everyone. 

The word diversity is so vague. Probably one of the most broad and vague terms out there. There are definitely instances and examples of where different amounts of options is a good thing. 

Brothels, buffets, uniform combinations, etc. Lol. 

I’m only talking about the instance where the word is primarily used. And that is for mass immigration.  Importing and flooding the country with as many immigrants as possible doesn’t make the country stronger. 

 This country is not so ignorant and incompetent that we need foreigners to come teach us how it’s done. 

 A lot of European nations have open their borders for the sake of diversity and it has backfired tremendously.  Gang rapes bombings and stabbings are common now. It’s just part and parcel I guess. 

Not one person in this thread has given a good excuse as to why America should mass absorb foreigners.  Some have elite skills and are educated but the majority of them are middle to low skilled.  Why should we import middle to low skilled people to compete with our middle and lower class? 

 You selfish pricks that it doesn’t affect just pat yourself on the back why most common Americans suffer from this.  Government agencies, hospitals, schools etc  feel the wrath of mass immigration and since it doesn’t affect any of you, you could care less. 

 You only care about the end result and that is to keep Democrats in power to push your left-wing ideals.  Such a terrible ass backwards way of thinking 

Cool story.  It is all fiction though.  Not one person has stated that they want open borders or mass immigration.  Not one.  However, that does not stop you all from saying it and pushing this falsehood.  Unless you are a citizen-you can't vote.

As for the topic on diversity, what you see as diverse others see as sameness.  Your fear of people is driving your unreasonable position and not allowing you to see the beauty and humanity of people no matter where they were born.  A college degree does not make a person more worthy or make them more valuable to any society and If they did we might have to export much of the south to somewhere where they would be better suited.

Your sense of humor is your saving grace and I suggest you make use of it when thinking of these things because life is too short to live in fear and resentment of people you do not even know.  IMHO  

[World Citizen]

@DevilDog Brother, I appreciate the knowledge...again.  Never disappoints.  

[World Citizen]

17 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

Which is kinda interesting considering the big talking point on here for so long was that Obama was a muslim, or, muslim lover, or whatever. 

I think he was just a terrorist hater and couldn't figure exactly how to get us out of the Bush mess without leaving it all fucked up, so, he drew down the troops as best he could to slow the "bleeding" and upped the safer to our troops method of drone bombing.

As a matter of fact, we are still engaged over there today. 

Of course I tend to like to cut through all the bullshit. I have this built in bullshit detector and am a little ocd so I can't help myself when the detector starts pegging. 

My bs detector instantly went off too.  I would hate to see his thoughts if he was knocking Obama.

There is just so much wrong with it.

[HawgGoneIt]

3 hours ago, World Citizen said:

My bs detector instantly went off too.  I would hate to see his thoughts if he was knocking Obama.

There is just so much wrong with it.

I wasn't calling him out, as, I figure what he posted was fairly close to accurate, without me trying to fact check it and all. 

I was using his set of facts to point out the fallacy of "muslim Obama" on here for as long as I can remember. 

The turn toward learning some stuff about Churchill was actually one of the few positives I feel like I got from this thread too. 

[HawgGoneIt]

On 1/17/2020 at 8:09 AM, Nolebull813 said:

Who cares. Diverse by definition means to water down. Diversity doesn’t mean better. It just means more groups that have less in common. It is a weakness 

This my friend reeks of something. It reeks of a supremist state of mind. Full stop. 

I don't know where you get all this line of thought from or whatever, but, you need to diversify(see what I did here?) your reading/news/education list. 

There really isn't but one way to read this quote from you, and, it's compounded by past stuff from you as well. 

I feel like you could profit a lot by taking the stars and bars decal from your back glass in your vehicle, and reading some stuff from news sites that the front page isn't red with lightning bolts, the reichsadler or an outright swastika. 

 

Diversity only "means to water down" in the instance that you are intent on keeping something pure. Well, see that opens a huge can of worms, because, someone has to be the judge then of what is pure. Who would that be? Who is that almighty person that makes these decisions? Is pure what we(the USA) were/was yesterday before several more people got visas?

What do you feel like is getting watered down due to all this diversity really? 

 

[HawgGoneIt]

4 hours ago, Nolebull813 said:

You guys are just posting personal experiences as if that is the fool proof blanket statements that apply to everyone. 

The word diversity is so vague. Probably one of the most broad and vague terms out there. There are definitely instances and examples of where different amounts of options is a good thing. 

Brothels, buffets, uniform combinations, etc. Lol. 

I’m only talking about the instance where the word is primarily used. And that is for mass immigration.  Importing and flooding the country with as many immigrants as possible doesn’t make the country stronger. 

 This country is not so ignorant and incompetent that we need foreigners to come teach us how it’s done. 

 A lot of European nations have open their borders for the sake of diversity and it has backfired tremendously.  Gang rapes bombings and stabbings are common now. It’s just part and parcel I guess. 

Not one person in this thread has given a good excuse as to why America should mass absorb foreigners.  Some have elite skills and are educated but the majority of them are middle to low skilled.  Why should we import middle to low skilled people to compete with our middle and lower class? 

 You selfish pricks that it doesn’t affect just pat yourself on the back why most common Americans suffer from this.  Government agencies, hospitals, schools etc  feel the wrath of mass immigration and since it doesn’t affect any of you, you could care less. 

 You only care about the end result and that is to keep Democrats in power to push your left-wing ideals.  Such a terrible ass backwards way of thinking 

You have issues dude. Everything isn't political. Nobody controls who new citizens vote for. This is fucking ridiculous, and speaking of ass backwards... 

Thinking that everything/everybody is angling politically is pretty ass backwards and is telling about you more than the people you accuse. 

Some things are pretty simple. Some people care about humanity in general, and could give a shit less about religious belief, skin color/race, gene pool, education level or any of the other things you seem to think may get watered down or water whatever it is you are afraid will get watered down. 

 

[zulu1128]

Diversity isn’t a positive or a negative. It’s simply another political football for people to kick around...as illustrated perfectly ITT. 

[Nolebull813]

2 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

You have issues dude. Everything isn't political. Nobody controls who new citizens vote for. This is fucking ridiculous, and speaking of ass backwards... 

Thinking that everything/everybody is angling politically is pretty ass backwards and is telling about you more than the people you accuse. 

Some things are pretty simple. Some people care about humanity in general, and could give a shit less about religious belief, skin color/race, gene pool, education level or any of the other things you seem to think may get watered down or water whatever it is you are afraid will get watered down. 

 

Exactly. You don’t feel the negative affects so it doesn’t matter to you. You can virtue signal from the sidelines while it negatively affects a large portion of other Americans. 
 

usually people don’t really care about the cons unless it affects them personally. 

[HawgGoneIt]

21 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

Exactly. You don’t feel the negative affects so it doesn’t matter to you. You can virtue signal from the sidelines while it negatively affects a large portion of other Americans. 
 

usually people don’t really care about the cons unless it affects them personally. 

So, why don't you do what you accuse others of, and cherry pick some situations that are cons and blanket apply them then. 

It's the same shit that goes both ways. 

Things that in your opinion are cons can be cherry picked just like things that in other people's opinions are positives can be cherry picked. 

You make this thing like America is being watered down, so, as an American, shouldn't I feel the negative effects? Or, are these grand negative effects just manufactured, and basically things that are negative in your opinion? 

Why don't I feel these effects that you claim are affecting large portions of Americans? Or is it that, because I care about humanity in general, that, I'm immune to feeling these effects?  Is it at the same time I'm immune, the people that hate other cultures must feel pain because they clearly hate other cultures and having them introduced into their lives is causing terrible mental anguish? 

 

 

[RedZone]

1 hour ago, HawgGoneIt said:

So, why don't you do what you accuse others of, and cherry pick some situations that are cons and blanket apply them then. 

It's the same shit that goes both ways. 

Things that in your opinion are cons can be cherry picked just like things that in other people's opinions are positives can be cherry picked. 

You make this thing like America is being watered down, so, as an American, shouldn't I feel the negative effects? Or, are these grand negative effects just manufactured, and basically things that are negative in your opinion? 

Why don't I feel these effects that you claim are affecting large portions of Americans? Or is it that, because I care about humanity in general, that, I'm immune to feeling these effects?  Is it at the same time I'm immune, the people that hate other cultures must feel pain because they clearly hate other cultures and having them introduced into their lives is causing terrible mental anguish? 

 

 

You gotta feel the negative to have any say, gotta feel it!!!

Feel it like nolebob.....

lmao

[Nolebull813]

I take it all back. I’m willing to trade Cajun for 100 unvetted immigrants. 

[Mjd33]

How’s diversity working out In Greece w mass immigration? 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7916431/Thousands-Greek-protesters-demand-asylum-seekers-removed-islands.html

 

https://neonnettle.com/news/8983-greece-begins-mass-deportation-of-migrants-as-country-toughens-up-asylum-policy?fbclid=IwAR0FOlaTeGSfmDswZBngX00VnealDjgj5HmOBsGAdWNiYn6dPj1PeP1Az94

Eventually, many European countries ie France, Germany, Sweden etc who opened their borders to immigrants with limited or no skills, lower IQs, no interest in learning the language/culture of their new home will have to adopt policies embraced by the like’s of Poland who are much more particular about who they are letting into their countries to work and live.... in addition, will likely purge a vast majority of the immigrants they brought in by their politicians who betrayed their own people..... like the merkel’s of the world. 

globalism is unsustainable. 

[954gator]

On 1/17/2020 at 10:49 AM, Blueliner said:

Hey gents. Keep this sports talk  nonsense off of this side of the forum. Thanks 🤣😉

Yeah i know right!  I rarely venture to this side and I’m missing out on sports talk!  Wtf!

 

[AztecPadre]

On 1/21/2020 at 11:48 AM, Nolebull813 said:

You guys are just posting personal experiences as if that is the fool proof blanket statements that apply to everyone. 

The word diversity is so vague. Probably one of the most broad and vague terms out there. There are definitely instances and examples of where different amounts of options is a good thing. 

Brothels, buffets, uniform combinations, etc. Lol. 

I’m only talking about the instance where the word is primarily used. And that is for mass immigration.  Importing and flooding the country with as many immigrants as possible doesn’t make the country stronger. 

 This country is not so ignorant and incompetent that we need foreigners to come teach us how it’s done. 

 A lot of European nations have open their borders for the sake of diversity and it has backfired tremendously.  Gang rapes bombings and stabbings are common now. It’s just part and parcel I guess. 

Not one person in this thread has given a good excuse as to why America should mass absorb foreigners.  Some have elite skills and are educated but the majority of them are middle to low skilled.  Why should we import middle to low skilled people to compete with our middle and lower class? 

 You selfish pricks that it doesn’t affect just pat yourself on the back why most common Americans suffer from this.  Government agencies, hospitals, schools etc  feel the wrath of mass immigration and since it doesn’t affect any of you, you could care less. 

 You only care about the end result and that is to keep Democrats in power to push your left-wing ideals.  Such a terrible ass backwards way of thinking 

Apparently we are.  Just take a look at how many Visa's are given to Chinese and Indian folk that come her to work in the tech industry.  

[HawgGoneIt]

 

[DevilDog]

1 hour ago, HawgGoneIt said:

 

You know I am always up for Knowledge. This NeaderThug moved to Belize a predominate black country and disappeared.  I assume he was just bringing them some Diversity.  Great post sir>  I am glad he exposed The B.S. in his discourse.  At the 2:15 mark he admits that Christianity in America is based off racism.    They even burn a Cross to worship a certain you know who. 🤣  I wonder how many Churches did this Neaderthug burn down?

Three decades after vanishing without a trace, former Imperial Wizard Bill Wilkinson of the infamous Ku Klux Klan, was found living the high life among Belize's predominantly black population.  

They should mudstomp this Savage for coming to their Nation. 🤣 He's still a great role model for non Diversity.  🤘

 

“Life is real good, I love the island, it’s full of very friendly people,” said Wilkinson, who is now running a multi-million dollar vacation resort in San Pedro.

 

I get a kick out of reverse wordism's  🤣 and I am clever with it. 

 

 

[HawgGoneIt]

9 hours ago, DevilDog said:

You know I am always up for Knowledge. This NeaderThug moved to Belize a predominate black country and disappeared.  I assume he was just bringing them some Diversity.  Great post sir>  I am glad he exposed The B.S. in his discourse.  At the 2:15 mark he admits that Christianity in America is based off racism.    They even burn a Cross to worship a certain you know who. 🤣  I wonder how many Churches did this Neaderthug burn down?

Three decades after vanishing without a trace, former Imperial Wizard Bill Wilkinson of the infamous Ku Klux Klan, was found living the high life among Belize's predominantly black population.  

They should mudstomp this Savage for coming to their Nation. 🤣 He's still a great role model for non Diversity.  🤘

 

“Life is real good, I love the island, it’s full of very friendly people,” said Wilkinson, who is now running a multi-million dollar vacation resort in San Pedro.

 

I get a kick out of reverse wordism's  🤣 and I am clever with it. 

 

 

I reckon today, Pat Buchanan would be called a rino and Wilkinson a Trumper.

Tom Braden must then be a democrap because he thinks that dude looks silly in his bedsheet. 

I have to be honest and say I don't think much has changed at all. Today is like 1982 all over again. Globalism/desegregation-Toamto/tomahto

We're being watered down, and some people just can't feel the effects, so, they are able to stand on the sideline and wave. Muslims, Blacks and Mexicans might follow me home and beat me up. Hell, white dudes might follow me home and beat me up too, because I think that damn bed sheet is pretty silly my own self. We live in a shot out world. 

 

Imagine if this aired on CNN in prime time today... You think there is some hate for CNN now?!

[Testadura]

On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 11:53 AM, DevilDog said:

Funny You would mention Churchill and Obama.  Remember Obama removing his bust when he became President.  There was a valid reasons behind his decision. 

1)  Barack Obama had it returned to Britain. It’s not hard to guess why: his Kenyan grandfather, Hussein Onyango Obama, was imprisoned without trial for two years and was tortured on Churchill’s watch, for resisting Churchill’s empire.

2) He gladly took part in raids that laid waste to whole valleys, destroying houses and burning crops. He then sped off to help reconquer the Sudan, where he bragged that he personally shot at least three “savages”.

3)  When concentration camps were built in South Africa, for white Boers, he said they produced “the minimum of suffering”. The death toll was almost 28,000, and when at least 115,000 black Africans were likewise swept into British camps, where 14,000 died, he wrote only of his “irritation that Kaffirs should be allowed to fire on white men”. Later, he boasted of his experiences there: “That was before war degenerated. It was great fun galloping about.”

4) Churchill believed that Kenya’s fertile highlands should be the preserve of the white settlers, and approved the clearing out of the local “blackamoors”. He saw the local Kikuyu as “brutish children”. When they rebelled under Churchill’s post-war premiership, some 150,000 of them were forced at gunpoint into detention camps – later dubbed “Britain’s gulag” by Pulitzer-prize winning historian, Professor Caroline Elkins. She studied the detention camps for five years for her remarkable book Britain’s Gulag: The Brutal End of Empire in Kenya, explains the tactics adopted under Churchill to crush the local drive for independence. “Electric shock was widely used, as well as cigarettes and fire,” she writes. “The screening teams whipped, shot, burned, and mutilated Mau Mau suspects.” Hussein Onyango Obama never truly recovered from the torture he endured.

5)  That Racist Bastard starved Millions of Indians and Bengalis:   FUCK CHURCHILL.  Like I said just his picture alone would equal all those pictures that NoleBull Posted.  

Churchill's policies to blame for millions of Indian famine deaths, study says

This Indian family arrived in Kolkata in 1943 in search of food.

Winston Churchill's policies caused a famine that claimed more than 3 million Indian lives, according to a new study using soil analysis for the first time to prove the origins of the disaster.

The 1943 Bengal famine was the only famine in modern Indian history not to occur as a result of serious drought, states the report, which was conducted by researchers in India and the United States.
"This was a unique famine, caused by policy failure instead of any drought

“Churchill is our hero because of his leadership in World War 2,” Polya writes, “but his immense crimes, notably the WW2 Bengali Holocaust, the 1943-1945 Bengal Famine in which Churchill murdered  6-7 million Indians, have been deleted from history by extraordinary Anglo-American Denial.”

 

You missed the entire point.  Great leaders have their bad moments and disasters, and the moments that you cite are heavily debated or flat-out wrong.  Churchill had a greater impact on freedom and liberty and democracy (which changed the World for the better) than any of your favs.  You "found" some alleged facts, misused them, and thereby showed no ability to discern leadership and humanity.  The fact that some here are informed or inspired by you speaks volumes.  You're silly, and a waste of time.

 

1.  Your point 1.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/9339640/Tale-of-British-brutality-toward-Barack-Obamas-grandfather-probably-untrue-book-claims.html

 

The following are quotes from an article on the well-regarded biography of Obama by David Maraniss, Pulitzer-Prize winner, respected Presidential biographer, liberal, and an Editor of the WaPo:

Tale of British brutality toward Barack Obama's grandfather probably untrue, [Maraniss] book claims

The story of how the President's grandfather was jailed by British troops in 1949 and brutally whipped for aiding the violent struggle for Kenyan independence is probably untrue, a new book has concluded.   [Churchill, BTW, didn't start his 2nd PM term till 1950, after Obama's grandfather had been allegedly jailed and tortured.]

 

* * *

 

However, Maraniss claims that while "incidents of that sort certainly happened", it "seems unlikely" that Mr Obama's grandfather was one such victim.  "Five people who had close connections to Hussein Onyango said they doubted the story or were certain it did not happen," he wrote in Barack Obama - The Making of the Man.

Zablon Okatch, who worked with Mr Onyango as a servant for American diplomats after his supposed detention, told Maraniss: "Hussein was never jailed.  I know that for a fact.  It would have been difficult for him to get a job with a white family, let alone a diplomat, if he once served in jail".

Dick Opar, a former senior Kenyan police official, said he "would have known" if Mr Onyango had been detained.  "People make up stories," said Mr Opar.  "If you get arrested, you say it was the fight for independence, but they are arrested for another thing".

Even one of Mr Onyango's daughters, Auma Magak, told Maraniss:  "He was not detained", suggesting that he had once been kidnapped by thugs and the story had been twisted through the generations.

Maraniss also notes that no records exist of the detention and that within a year of his supposed imprisonment, Mr Onyango's son, Barack Obama senior, was accepted into a prestigious boarding school in western Kenya.

The alleged inaccuracy in Mr Obama's backstory is one of several noted by Maraniss, who also discloses the true identities of several girlfriends that the President compressed into one character in his 1995 memoir.  A White House spokesman declined to comment.  [Emphasis added.]

[Testadura]

On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 11:53 AM, DevilDog said:

 

 

2) He gladly took part in raids that laid waste to whole valleys, destroying houses and burning crops. He then sped off to help reconquer the Sudan, where he bragged that he personally shot at least three “savages”.

 

 

2.

WC got there in 1898.  He was about 22.  There was a war going on that had started in 1891 b/w the English and a Khalifa looking to start a Khalifat (kingdom, as that's what Khalifas do) initially by defeating Egypt and kicking out the occupying Ottoman Turks and making his way to the Sudan.  The Khalifa sacked cities and burned down all Churches in his escapades.  He was a scumbag, in your parlance.  But war is hell, right?  Genocide is even worse, and look what countries like to have fun with it TODAY.  No comment, right?

**********

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Black#Ku_Klux_Klan_and_anti-Catholicism

Context-comparatives for context, because judging especially by the misinformed and agenda-driven is particularly tough:  Renown U.S. Senator and very liberal & loved Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black (FDR appointed, as you know) was admittedly a Klansman and anti-Catholic.  He fake resigned from the KKK when was 40, not 22, right before his successful Senatorial run for an Alabama seat: 

“Shortly after Black's appointment to the Supreme Court, Ray Sprigle of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette wrote a series of articles, for which he won a Pulitzer Prize, revealing Black's involvement in the Klan^[111][112] and describing his resignation from the Klan as ‘the first move of his campaign for the Democratic nomination for United States Senator from Alabama.’ Sprigle wrote that ‘Black and the leaders of the Klan decided it was good political strategy for Black to make the senatorial race unimpeded by Klan membership but backed by the power of the Klan. That resignation [was] filed for the duration of the campaign but never revealed to the rank and file of the order and held secretly in the records of the Alabama Realm...’"^[112]

Further quote without quotes:

In a radio statement on October 1,1937,^[115] Black said in part, "I number among my friends many members of the colored race. Certainly, they are entitled to the full measure of protection accorded by our Constitution and our laws ..."^[116] Black also said, "I did join the Klan. I later resigned. I never rejoined. ... Before becoming a Senator I dropped the Klan. I have had nothing to do with it since that time. I abandoned it. I completely discontinued any association with the organization. I have never resumed it and never expect to do so."^[117] The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported that "fifty million listeners heard the unprecedented speech."^{[citation needed]}

Near the end of his life, Black said that joining the Klan was a mistake: "I would have joined any group if it helped get me votes."^[37]  [he’s full of shit.]

 

Biographers in the 1990s examined Black's views of religious denominations. Ball found regarding the Klan that Black "sympathized with the group's economic, nativist, and anti-Catholic beliefs."^[118] Newman said Black "disliked the Catholic Church as an institution" and gave numerous anti-Catholic speeches in his 1926 election campaign to Ku Klux Klan meetings across Alabama.^[119] ***

**********

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lyndon-johnson-civil-rights-racism

“Lyndon Johnson was a civil rights hero. But also a racist.  Lyndon Johnson said the word ‘nigger’ a lot.  In Senate cloakrooms and staff meetings, Johnson was practically a connoisseur of the word. According to Johnson biographer Robert Caro, Johnson would calibrate his pronunciations by region, using ‘nigra’ with some southern legislators and “negra” with others.  Discussing civil rights legislation with men like Mississippi Democrat James Eastland, who committed most of his life to defending white supremacy, he’d simply call it ‘the nigger bill.’  Then in 1957, Johnson would help get the ‘nigger bill’ passed, known to most as the Civil Rights Act of 1957. ***”  [Emphasis added.]

LBJ was 49 in 1957, which is about 58 years after 22-yr-old Churchill had made his Sudan comments in his book about that war (and you know, war is hell).  I think that LBJ grew from a bigot to someone who got it.  Black went on to legislate great law from the Bench.  If I had any inclination, I could find better and worse examples of great leaders who disappointed, which was the whole point of the Obama articles:  Look at Obama and what his charged with just a few yrs ago while he was a mature, experienced man (not a 22-yr-old cavalry man seeking adventure and a career—Obama already  had a career and knew better)—Obama's being charged with being essentially a war criminal and murderer on a large scale (e.g., Drone-in-Chief).

**********

It's hard to judge in a vacuum, but I don't thinking that your preoccupation is truth-finding.

[Testadura]

On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 11:53 AM, DevilDog said:

 

 

3)  When concentration camps were built in South Africa, for white Boers, he said they produced “the minimum of suffering”. The death toll was almost 28,000, and when at least 115,000 black Africans were likewise swept into British camps, where 14,000 died, he wrote only of his “irritation that Kaffirs should be allowed to fire on white men”. Later, he boasted of his experiences there: “That was before war degenerated. It was great fun galloping about.”

 

 

3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill

He was born in 1897.  Britain had an Empire, as did the Ottoman Turks.  Other nations also did.  He was a Cavalry Lt. in 1899, which was before the concentration camps in South Africa in 1900-02.  In 1905, be became Under-Secretary of State of the Colonies.

“In dealing with southern Africa, he sought to ensure equality between the British and Boer.^[133] He also announced a gradual phasing out of the use of Chinese indentured labourers in South Africa; he and the government decided that a sudden ban would cause too much upset in the colony and might damage the economy.^[134] He expressed concerns about the relations between European settlers and the black African population; after Zulu launched the Bambatha Rebellion in Natal, he complained of Europeans' ‘disgusting butchery of the natives’".^[135]

Before Under-Secretary, he was in Commons as an MP:  “In May he expressed opposition to the government's proposed Aliens Bill, which was designed to curb Jewish migration into Britain.^[118] He stated that the bill would ‘appeal to insular prejudice against foreigners, to racial prejudice against Jews, and to labour prejudice against competition’ and expressed himself in favour of ‘the old tolerant and generous practice of free entry and asylum to which this country has so long adhered and from which it has so greatly gained.’"^{[118] ”}

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Decades later, in a more politically-correct era, LBJ and Senator & Justice Black didn't call "them" Kaffirs; they liked the old-fashioned term. 

Blacks and whites had gone into those camps you mentioned.  2x the amount of whites died.  Bigotry was very common.  Call me any name you like, as long as 14,000 more of us of live. 

On my 1st day of school, I sat down before school started with a black kid, who during the next 13 years was a good friend.  My brother ran into him recently, and then told me what that black kid had said to me as I sat next to him that day in 1970:  "My grandfather told me not to talk to whites."

I couldn't remember that--no recollection at all.  My brother only knew because he had remembered that story from my mother's telling him, as my mother had been standing there because it was the 1st day of school.

My brother and I only discussed how hard his grandfather's life must have been.  what the kid had said to me was meaningless as far as offense to me was concerned; we focused ONLY on his grandfather being rational but likely being severely mistreated in his life.

My experience is not the same as Churchill's, but that kid and his gramps were walking around will those biased notions in 1970 and thereafter.  He and his black friends got more into Black Power after 1970, but that nonsense wasn't enough for him and me to part ways.

If Greg Maddox gets strikes called 8 inches off the plate; my pitcher gets the same calls too.  Call it any way you want, but call it fairly.

 

[Testadura]

56 minutes ago, Testadura said:

2.

WC got there in 1898.  He was about 22.  There was a war going on that had started in 1891 b/w the English and a Khalifa looking to start a Khalifat (kingdom, as that's what Khalifas do) initially by defeating Egypt and kicking out the occupying Ottoman Turks and making his way to the Sudan.  The Khalifa sacked cities and burned down all Churches in his escapades.  He was a scumbag, in your parlance.  But war is hell, right?  Genocide is even worse, and look what countries like to have fun with it TODAY.  No comment, right?

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Black#Ku_Klux_Klan_and_anti-Catholicism

Context-comparatives for context, because judging especially by the misinformed and agenda-driven is particularly tough:  Renown U.S. Senator and very liberal & loved Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black (FDR appointed, as you know) was admittedly a Klansman and anti-Catholic.  He fake resigned from the KKK when was 40, not 22, right before his successful Senatorial run for an Alabama seat: 

“Shortly after Black's appointment to the Supreme Court, Ray Sprigle of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette wrote a series of articles, for which he won a Pulitzer Prize, revealing Black's involvement in the Klan^[111][112] and describing his resignation from the Klan as ‘the first move of his campaign for the Democratic nomination for United States Senator from Alabama.’ Sprigle wrote that ‘Black and the leaders of the Klan decided it was good political strategy for Black to make the senatorial race unimpeded by Klan membership but backed by the power of the Klan. That resignation [was] filed for the duration of the campaign but never revealed to the rank and file of the order and held secretly in the records of the Alabama Realm...’"^[112]

Further quote without quotes:

In a radio statement on October 1,1937,^[115] Black said in part, "I number among my friends many members of the colored race. Certainly, they are entitled to the full measure of protection accorded by our Constitution and our laws ..."^[116] Black also said, "I did join the Klan. I later resigned. I never rejoined. ... Before becoming a Senator I dropped the Klan. I have had nothing to do with it since that time. I abandoned it. I completely discontinued any association with the organization. I have never resumed it and never expect to do so."^[117] The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported that "fifty million listeners heard the unprecedented speech."^{[citation needed]}

Near the end of his life, Black said that joining the Klan was a mistake: "I would have joined any group if it helped get me votes."^[37]  [he’s full of shit.]

 

Biographers in the 1990s examined Black's views of religious denominations. Ball found regarding the Klan that Black "sympathized with the group's economic, nativist, and anti-Catholic beliefs."^[118] Newman said Black "disliked the Catholic Church as an institution" and gave numerous anti-Catholic speeches in his 1926 election campaign to Ku Klux Klan meetings across Alabama.^[119] ***

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http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lyndon-johnson-civil-rights-racism

“Lyndon Johnson was a civil rights hero. But also a racist.  Lyndon Johnson said the word ‘nigger’ a lot.  In Senate cloakrooms and staff meetings, Johnson was practically a connoisseur of the word. According to Johnson biographer Robert Caro, Johnson would calibrate his pronunciations by region, using ‘nigra’ with some southern legislators and “negra” with others.  Discussing civil rights legislation with men like Mississippi Democrat James Eastland, who committed most of his life to defending white supremacy, he’d simply call it ‘the nigger bill.’  Then in 1957, Johnson would help get the ‘nigger bill’ passed, known to most as the Civil Rights Act of 1957. ***”  [Emphasis added.]

LBJ was 49 in 1957, which is about 58 years after 22-yr-old Churchill had made his Sudan comments in his book about that war (and you know, war is hell).  I think that LBJ grew from a bigot to someone who got it.  Black went on to legislate great law from the Bench.  If I had any inclination, I could find better and worse examples of great leaders who disappointed, which was the whole point of the Obama articles:  Look at Obama and what his charged with just a few yrs ago while he was a mature, experienced man (not a 22-yr-old cavalry man seeking adventure and a career—Obama already  had a career and knew better)—Obama's being charged with being essentially a war criminal and murderer on a large scale (e.g., Drone-in-Chief).

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It's hard to judge in a vacuum, but I don't thinking that your preoccupation is truth-finding.

And tell me the due process that Obama's drone victims and bombing innocents got.  Keep picking the battles that suit you.

 

[HawgGoneIt]

Interesting.stuff. It's definitely going to send me off to find some works written about Churchill. I never cared to dig much outside of what I learned of him in various history classes. It's also interesting to see the different takes on him. I suppose a lot of people/leaders from that time could be found as having been racist. Probably a good many unapologetic as well, but, somehow, taught history likes to gloss over some things as it pertains to some of heroes that have been placed on pedestals in those history books.

There certainly is no doubt that every leader has their struggles. Especially in a country with such an even ideological division such as ours.