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Is this fair to school?


Ararar

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So in another topic I posted a picture of a billboard that has Narbonne football accomplishments on it.Now the CIF governing body had threatened Narbonne with sanctions if it doesn't come down.Narbonne claims they had nothing to do with it and didn't pay for it so how can they order it down

 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/highschool/varsity-times/la-sp-high-school-sports-updates-city-section-tells-narbonne-to-remove-1494443519-htmlstory.html

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It's against the rules.  Section 510 from the CIF blue book addresses "undue influence" and pretty much spells out exactly what Narbonne or a Narbonne booster did.

"Undue influence is any act, gesture or communication (including accepting material or financial inducement to attend a CIF member school for the purpose of engaging in CIF competition regardless of the source) which is performed personally, or through another, which may be objectively seen as an inducement, or part of a process of inducing a student, or his or her parent(s)/guardian(s)/caregiver, by or on behalf of, a member school, to enroll in transfer to, or remain in, a particular school for athletic purposes."

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1 minute ago, Griff said:

It's against the rules.  Section 510 from the CIF blue book addresses "undue influence" and pretty much spells out exactly what Narbonne or a Narbonne booster did.

"Undue influence is any act, gesture or communication (including accepting material or financial inducement to attend a CIF member school for the purpose of engaging in CIF competition regardless of the source) which is performed personally, or through another, which may be objectively seen as an inducement, or part of a process of inducing a student, or his or her parent(s)/guardian(s)/caregiver, by or on behalf of, a member school, to enroll in transfer to, or remain in, a particular school for athletic purposes."

Yes I know the rule but if Narbonne didn't put it up and doesn't know who did what can they do?

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I don't believe that excuse and neither should you.  

But, regardless, it says clearly if this "act, gesture, or communication" is "performed personally, or through another" then it's undue influence.  The CIF is clearly saying that schools must have some measure of responsibility over their boosters.  

So if Narbonne really doesn't know what booster paid for the billboard, they'd better find out fast.  But Narbonne doesn't have a large booster club, so something tells me they know exactly where this billboard came from.

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12 minutes ago, Griff said:

It's against the rules.  Section 510 from the CIF blue book addresses "undue influence" and pretty much spells out exactly what Narbonne or a Narbonne booster did.

"Undue influence is any act, gesture or communication (including accepting material or financial inducement to attend a CIF member school for the purpose of engaging in CIF competition regardless of the source) which is performed personally, or through another, which may be objectively seen as an inducement, or part of a process of inducing a student, or his or her parent(s)/guardian(s)/caregiver, by or on behalf of, a member school, to enroll in transfer to, or remain in, a particular school for athletic purposes."

Honest question here... why is this a problem? 

Valdosta,Lowndes and some of the ATL schools do this... 

Especially Lowndes.... 

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God the CIF is retarded. A billboard? That's their concern. Bunch of crooked greedy hypocrites. If they put a Max Prep or Les Schwab logo on it the CIF officials would have broken necks from sucking themselves off.

How dare anyone be proud of a teams accomplishments without the CIF getting their cut.

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18 minutes ago, Griff said:

I don't believe that excuse and neither should you.  

But, regardless, it says clearly if this "act, gesture, or communication" is "performed personally, or through another" then it's undue influence.  The CIF is clearly saying that schools must have some measure of responsibility over their boosters.  

So if Narbonne really doesn't know what booster paid for the billboard, they'd better find out fast.  But Narbonne doesn't have a large booster club, so something tells me they know exactly where this billboard came from.

They could know the booster who did it but that doesn't mean they can make him take it down.They could give the CIF his home address but that wouldn't make him take it down.They can't control another human being.Thats the gray area here

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26 minutes ago, TheMaximumHornetSting said:

Honest question here... why is this a problem? 

Valdosta,Lowndes and some of the ATL schools do this... 

Especially Lowndes.... 

I'll hazard a guess.  But let me preface this by saying that I don't agree with the rule.  Undue influence rules are broken and/or re-written all the time, the CIF just decides which ones they will enforce.  I say let everything be a free-for-all.

But okay, why is a billboard a problem? My guess is the same reason why undue influence is always a problem. Because it allows one party to use another party for their personal advantage and benefit.  

If MD were so inclined, they could open up their coffers and litter athlete-rich areas with billboards, newspaper ads, television commercials, etc., casting their net to attract as many athletes as they can. Let's stop and think for a moment what kind of environment this would create, and more importantly, who would be the beneficiary of this environment.  Was this environment created to be a benefit to the student (which is kinda the whole purpose of "school", right?) or to benefit large, prestigious athletic programs?  

So basically the CIF wants a some ethics to go with their high school sports....they don't want big time boosters with lots of money hunting for athletes and using kids for their own benefit.  Now I know what you're all going to say, they're already doing it.  Yup, you're right, but c'mon....do it on the sneak tip, don't just blatantly throw up billboards in poor communities.  That's just wrong.

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1 hour ago, Ararar said:

They could know the booster who did it but that doesn't mean they can make him take it down.They could give the CIF his home address but that wouldn't make him take it down.They can't control another human being.Thats the gray area here

You're right, they can't make the booster take it down.

But they can hit Narbonne with sanctions, prevent them from going to the playoffs for instance.  I'm pretty sure Narbonne and their booster don't want them problems.

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So let me ask this; if I were ANTI-Narbonne I could put these billboards up all over town and ensure I don't see them in the playoffs???

Hell I could see public schools all over the place putting up DLS, SJB and MD billboards from San Diego to Chico just for playoffs purposes, lol.

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6 hours ago, Griff said:

I'll hazard a guess.  But let me preface this by saying that I don't agree with the rule.  Undue influence rules are broken and/or re-written all the time, the CIF just decides which ones they will enforce.  I say let everything be a free-for-all.

But okay, why is a billboard a problem? My guess is the same reason why undue influence is always a problem. Because it allows one party to use another party for their personal advantage and benefit.  

If MD were so inclined, they could open up their coffers and litter athlete-rich areas with billboards, newspaper ads, television commercials, etc., casting their net to attract as many athletes as they can. Let's stop and think for a moment what kind of environment this would create, and more importantly, who would be the beneficiary of this environment.  Was this environment created to be a benefit to the student (which is kinda the whole purpose of "school", right?) or to benefit large, prestigious athletic programs?  

So basically the CIF wants a some ethics to go with their high school sports....they don't want big time boosters with lots of money hunting for athletes and using kids for their own benefit.  Now I know what you're all going to say, they're already doing it.  Yup, you're right, but c'mon....do it on the sneak tip, don't just blatantly throw up billboards in poor communities.  That's just wrong.

 

Same issue that Georgia is having. The GHSA picks and chooses which rules to enforce, when to do it, and which schools to enforce them against. All at the same time... most schools work the system to some extent, but generally remain on the down low with it. Occasionally a school, team, booster or student does something like the billboard in Narbonne, or twitter recruiting at Grayson, etc. and it takes a news station to get some obvious action from the GHSA or maybe a newspaper story for Narbonne. 

 

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Based on what the article says the issue is less with the billboard ("general advertising" is permitted) and more with the content.  Now, with regard to that content its stated that the issue is because it focuses on football, which I see as half the story-if Narbonne had a 5-5 football team a billboard prominently featuring Coach Douglas likely isn't given a second thought.  So it would seem that the issue is less that it's a billboard "focused" on a football program but one focused on a successful program.

And to that I will ask-without said billboard would the information being presented be readily available in other formats?  I think we'd all agree this is a resounding yes.  Now, something that's more debatable-is the information presented in such a manner that implores prospective students/parents to take action?  While I do think it could be argued that its intended purpose is as a recruiting tool if you're looking strictly I don't think stating what are readily-available facts presents "undue influence".  It's naive in my mind to think that there are people with a vested interest in high school football (i.e. prospective parents/athletes) aren't already well-aware of Narbonne's gridiron prowess, and if I am correct with that premise I don't see how this influences any relevant parties.

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14 hours ago, Ararar said:

So in another topic I posted a picture of a billboard that has Narbonne football accomplishments on it.Now the CIF governing body had threatened Narbonne with sanctions if it doesn't come down.Narbonne claims they had nothing to do with it and didn't pay for it so how can they order it down

 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/highschool/varsity-times/la-sp-high-school-sports-updates-city-section-tells-narbonne-to-remove-1494443519-htmlstory.html

Its the section telling them to take it down right?  Not CIF?  Either way I guess its lame since I bet a private school could do that and get away with it. 

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38 minutes ago, Drummer61 said:

Take it down.. Case closed.

But if Narbonne didn't put it up they have no way or authority to take it down.

My biggest issue is the CIF and the sections and their pick and choose of who they go after. They will look to bury some schools and  act like Stevie Wonder with others. 

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1 hour ago, Cossacks said:

But if Narbonne didn't put it up they have no way or authority to take it down.

My biggest issue is the CIF and the sections and their pick and choose of who they go after. They will look to bury some schools and  act like Stevie Wonder with others. 

And that's the ongoing issue with the CIF. 

Narbonne knows exactly who put the billboard up. This is all in relation to a giant recruiting battle that's going on in the city of Carson. Narbonne has been getting over with major talent but now Carson High has hired a new coach who is shaking up the area with lots of transfers, some coming from Narbonne. Narbonne tried to strike back with this billboard. 

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2 hours ago, Cossacks said:

But if Narbonne didn't put it up they have no way or authority to take it down.

My biggest issue is the CIF and the sections and their pick and choose of who they go after. They will look to bury some schools and  act like Stevie Wonder with others. 

Just to add to your point let's see what SJB is advertising this week

IMG_0545.JPG

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