Reuters: "Slavery not a crime for almost half the countries in the world--study"

[I AM IRONMAN]

4 hours ago, Testadura said:

.

 

I have to take a dump

I think you meant you have to take a Schiff 😂

[Troll]

16 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

He said America is not the scum shit country leftist want you to believe and used whites dying to fight against slavery as evidence.  However, in spite of their efforts, America still found a way to oppress blacks for another 100 years!  There were people in place that made it their mission that regardless of “freedoms” blacks didn’t hold equality to whites.

the good deeds of those whites that died for emancipation don’t exonerate those that helped usher us into America’s 100 year apartheid  

Never said they exonerated...and agree with you that they don't

But an acknowledgement that 'ALL' citizens are not responsible for all of a government's action, can't just be ignored...

Anyone active in the latest "America has always been divided" thread here should understand that one, right?

 

[Horsefly]

16 minutes ago, Troll said:

Never said they did...and agree with you that they don't

But an acknowledgement that 'ALL' citizens are not responsible for all of a government's action, can't just be ignored...

Anyone active in the latest "America has always been divided" thread here should understand that one, right?

 

This goes without saying.  Unfortunately it’s not the point Bull was making, at least clearly IMO. 

this part is what spoils that perspective:  

“America isn’t the scum piece of shit country the lefties want you to think”. 
had he said:  “All white people were not all shit like the lefties want you to think”. I’d wholeheartedly agree 

[Troll]

26 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

This goes without saying.  Unfortunately it’s not the point Bull was making, at least clearly IMO. 

this part is what spoils that perspective:  

“America isn’t the scum piece of shit country the lefties want you to think”. 
had he said:  “All white people were not all shit like the lefties want you to think”. I’d wholeheartedly agree 

Great point...that additional detail now shows where your intended "blame" lies...

I was never defending any blame on "the system", of course they own their own results.

Without that discernment, people might never see how we are actually in agreement. 😄

 

but wholehearted agreement.... does not always stop a disconnect in the convo... 😕

 

BTW: I guess I just missed that one, because I don't view America as 'white'.....😏

 

[Horsefly]

4 minutes ago, Troll said:

Great point...that additional detail now shows where your intended "blame" lies...

I was never defending any blame on "the system", of course they own their own results.

Without that discernment, people might never see how we are actually in agreement. 😄

 

wholehearted agreement.... does not always stop a disconnect in the convo... 😕

 

BTW: I guess I just missed that one, because I don't view America as 'white'.....😏

 

Of course we are talking about an America in the 1860s.  If it wasn’t white then what was it?   

[Testadura]

7 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

He said America is not the scum shit country leftist want you to believe and used whites dying to fight against slavery as evidence.  However, in spite of their efforts, America still found a way to oppress blacks for another 100 years!  There were people in place that made it their mission that regardless of “freedoms” blacks didn’t hold equality to whites.

the good deeds of those whites that died for emancipation don’t exonerate those that helped usher us into America’s 100 year apartheid  

let's for discussion's sake concede the facts you point out, most of which aren't in dispute btw.  the calculus and characterization are another matter, but they need not delay us now.

"exonerate.' 

is exoneration possible?  who decides?  who votes?  dead men don't vote?  who casts their ballot?  what weight to each vote?

what do I or we get, if I or we obtain exoneration?

who exonerates?  blacks alone?  descendants of slaves alone?  men of good will, too?  all Americans?  Illegals? 

Do illegals vote?  Do illegals have to pay?  The answer would have to be yes, as they're benefitting.  Watch them bust down the walls as they head into Mexico.

what's the criteria?  are there any offsets in the calculus?  trillions in welfare?  affirmative action?  living in the greatest Country ever?  do some of those things end when the exoneration is complete?

Those who did almost all of the bad stuff are long gone.  Those who suffered most of the bad stuff are long gone, too.  Bull Connor's family should pay more than mine, you'd agree.

So, if there's a dollar cost, who pays?  there has to be a point system then?  the longer your line was enslaved the more you get?  earlier slave lines should get more than later slave lines?  what about blacks who arrived after 1865 or 1965?  what about blacks who missed racist episodes directed at them, or don't see racism everywhere.  E.g., Morgan Freeman.

what about descendants of free blacks who owned slaves?  do those descendants owe?  they did more to hurt blacks than my family did.

what about blacks who harmed this Country worse than the Country harmed those blacks?  there were bad blacks who cannot pin their misdeeds on discrimination and racism, right?  not every black was noble?  some were takes.  Do their descendants take?  a less-than-full share?

How much is a share?  how does one come up with a forgiveness formula?  3 Our Fathers.  3 Hail Mary's.  10,000 bucks?  Forced taking of the 1619 class with no bathroom breaks?

Are people individually exonerated?  Or is a Country exonerated? 

are there free riders to exoneration?  if I pay more because i'm rich but less racially liable than a poor person whose family was way worse to blacks and benefited more by racism (and such will be the case), and the poor dude simply rides my coattails and pay nothing because he's poor, then hat's not fair.  Does he owe community service?

Will we need a federal department to oversee exoneration?  That will be expensive, and we will have thus ensured that exoneration will never end.  People won't want to lose their jobs and pension and benefits.

How much does a Russian who was just sworn in as a citizen yesterday owe?

Is John Brown exonerated, or is he stuck with collective guilt?  The Abolitionists?  Whites who worked for the NAACP?  Offsets, again?

These issues have been explored to some extent with the Germans, Jews, and the Holocaust, but you, of course, know that we're not as comparable.  So, deep thinkers have weighed in on this already.

you understand that you're heading on an impossible fool's errand?

That's just off the top of my head.  If I were to read on it, I'm sure that more complexities and inconsistencies and absurdities, etc., would arise. 

That's why God gets the final say.

[Troll]

1 minute ago, Horsefly said:

Of course we are talking about an America circa 1860s.  If it wasn’t white then what was it?   

probably just another disconnect...😉

I was not limiting America to 'History'.

 

[Horsefly]

7 minutes ago, Troll said:

probably just another disconnect...😉

I was not limiting America to 'History'.

 

But Bull was, which was the comment we were addressing. 

[Troll]

4 minutes ago, Testadura said:

let's for discussion's sake ....

dude, stop hyperventilating....

Nothing 'exonerates' guilt ...or 'changes' history.

Not even a few shekels or  'reparations' for victims...

 

"For discussion's sake"  is cute tho...🙄

 

[Troll]

6 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

But Bull was, which was the comment we were addressing. 

all good 😁

 I wasn't trying to speak for him, but just adding my own thoughts 👍 

[Horsefly]

23 minutes ago, Testadura said:

let's for discussion's sake concede the facts you point out, most of which aren't in dispute btw.  the calculus and characterization are another matter, but they need not delay us now.

"exonerate.' 

is exoneration possible?  who decides?  who votes?  dead men don't vote?  who casts their ballot?  what weight to each vote?

what do I or we get, if I or we obtain exoneration?

who exonerates?  blacks alone?  descendants of slaves alone?  men of good will, too?  all Americans?  Illegals? 

Do illegals vote?  Do illegals have to pay?  The answer would have to be yes, as they're benefitting.  Watch them bust down the walls as they head into Mexico.

what's the criteria?  are there any offsets in the calculus?  trillions in welfare?  affirmative action?  living in the greatest Country ever?  do some of those things end when the exoneration is complete?

Those who did almost all of the bad stuff are long gone.  Those who suffered most of the bad stuff are long gone, too.  Bull Connor's family should pay more than mine, you'd agree.

So, if there's a dollar cost, who pays?  there has to be a point system then?  the longer your line was enslaved the more you get?  earlier slave lines should get more than later slave lines?  what about blacks who arrived after 1865 or 1965?  what about blacks who missed racist episodes directed at them, or don't see racism everywhere.  E.g., Morgan Freeman.

what about descendants of free blacks who owned slaves?  do those descendants owe?  they did more to hurt blacks than my family did.

what about blacks who harmed this Country worse than the Country harmed those blacks?  there were bad blacks who cannot pin their misdeeds on discrimination and racism, right?  not every black was noble?  some were takes.  Do their descendants take?  a less-than-full share?

How much is a share?  how does one come up with a forgiveness formula?  3 Our Fathers.  3 Hail Mary's.  10,000 bucks?  Forced taking of the 1619 class with no bathroom breaks?

Are people individually exonerated?  Or is a Country exonerated? 

are there free riders to exoneration?  if I pay more because i'm rich but less racially liable than a poor person whose family was way worse to blacks and benefited more by racism (and such will be the case), and the poor dude simply rides my coattails and pay nothing because he's poor, then hat's not fair.  Does he owe community service?

Will we need a federal department to oversee exoneration?  That will be expensive, and we will have thus ensured that exoneration will never end.  People won't want to lose their jobs and pension and benefits.

How much does a Russian who was just sworn in as a citizen yesterday owe?

Is John Brown exonerated, or is he stuck with collective guilt?  The Abolitionists?  Whites who worked for the NAACP?  Offsets, again?

These issues have been explored to some extent with the Germans, Jews, and the Holocaust, but you, of course, know that we're not as comparable.  So, deep thinkers have weighed in on this already.

you understand that you're heading on an impossible fool's errand?

That's just off the top of my head.  If I were to read on it, I'm sure that more complexities and inconsistencies and absurdities, etc., would arise. 

That's why God gets the final say.

To answer your question, America was freed from the ACT of slavery when it ratified the 13th amendment.  That’s it.   America however was not exonerated from slavery.  It doesn’t have the power to do so 

Every individual though is accountable for their actions, regardless of race, color or creed, to be judged by God.  

[Testadura]

18 minutes ago, Troll said:

dude, stop hyperventilating....

Nothing 'exonerates' guilt ...or 'changes' history.

Not even a few shekels or  'reparations' for victims...

 

"For discussion's sake"  is cute tho...🙄

 

you're like a mommy's-little-helper who needs always something with which to occupy himself, and always wants to be part of the big-persons' conversation

go figure out all the Joes kids who will be transferring to Bosco, and we'll let you mix the bowl when you're back

[Testadura]

46 minutes ago, Troll said:

Great point...that additional detail now shows where your intended "blame" lies...

I was never defending any blame on "the system", of course they own their own results.

Without that discernment, people might never see how we are actually in agreement. 😄

 

but wholehearted agreement.... does not always stop a disconnect in the convo... 😕

 

BTW: I guess I just missed that one, because I don't view America as 'white'.....😏

 

you sound like that character Damon Wayans used to play

wifi out of all the prisons, immediately

[Troll]

1 minute ago, Testadura said:

you're like a mommy's-little-helper who needs always something with which to occupy himself, and always wants to be part of the big-persons' conversation

go figure out all the Joes kids who will be transferring to Bosco, and we'll let you mix the bowl when you're back

As I Indicated previously...

You need work on your gratuitous  put downs.

 

but keep up the effort 👍

 

You don't look stupid at all....

 

 

 

 

really

😜 

[DevilDog]

3 hours ago, Horsefly said:

To answer your question, America was freed from the ACT of slavery when it ratified the 13th amendment.  That’s it.   America however was not exonerated from slavery.  It doesn’t have the power to do so 

Every individual though is accountable for their actions, regardless of race, color or creed, to be judged by God.  

Just the B.S. done to Blacks and Indians here should make anyone that Believes in GOD.   Have bloody knees from praying for forgiveness. But that is not what is professed by the revisionist.  What you are taught is to forgive and forget and get over it.  That's not GOD that is the opposite and we both know whom that is a referral too. 

Dey Didn't do Nuffin 🤣.  I love when they say those wronged are long Dead.  This is the absurdity of this.  The one contesting you can't explain why you and I are the 1st Generation to attend integrated Schools. And my 31 year old Son was just the 2nd Generation.  My mom came to visit me 3 weeks.  She is 74 years old and couldn't even go into a Restaurant, ride where she wanted on a bus or walk on the SIde walk with white men walking toward her and this damn sure wasn't the 1800's.  Revisionism and Forgetism is just a way to feign ignorance.  How many Black people died for their Freedom.  I will assure you more black blood was spilled for our freedom than white.   Lets' go down this alley of Blood and compare the moral absurdity of revisionism.  There were slaves alive in the 1970's.  1865 didn't end Slavery for Black people. The Emancipation Imagination didn't magically change their conditions.       

This Nation conduct 1,500 wars sponsored by the Federal Government against Indians who at one time numbered 5 - 6 million on arrival and at one pointed number 238K.  Genocide of a Red Man to take his land to Enslave A Black man to Empower an Empire to BOMB the Yellow and Brown Man.   They now revise history and tell you well the diseases killed the Native population.  It's B.S. promulgated by ignorant people who hate to admit this was a Nation of Racist founded by racism for Racists. 

From the time Europeans arrived on American shores, the frontier—the edge territory between white man’s civilization and the untamed natural world—became a shared space of vast, clashing differences that led the U.S. government to authorize over 1,500 wars, attacks and raids on Indians, the most of any country in the world against its indigenous people. By the close of the Indian Wars in the late 19th century, fewer than 238,000 indigenous people remained, a sharp decline from the estimated 5 million to 15 million living in North America when Columbus arrived in 1492.

The reasons for this racial genocide were multi-layered. Settlers, most of whom had been barred from inheriting property in Europe, arrived on American shores hungry for Indian land—and the abundant natural resources that came with it. Indians’ collusion with the British during the American Revolution and the War of 1812 exacerbated American hostility and suspicion toward them.

Even more fundamentally, indigenous people were just too different: Their skin was dark. Their languages were foreign. And their world views and spiritual beliefs were beyond most white men’s comprehension.

[DevilDog]

4 hours ago, Horsefly said:

Of course we are talking about an America in the 1860s.  If it wasn’t white then what was it?   

Like their forefathers and the indigenous people.  Your views, reality and stories handed down are beyond comprehension.  Once that reality manifests one must  realize you are talking to an 1492 - 1892 European rehashed.  😎

[concha]

3 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

Just the B.S. done to Blacks and Indians here should make anyone that Believes in GOD.   Have bloody knees from praying for forgiveness. But that is not what is professed by the revisionist.  What you are taught is to forgive and forget and get over it.  That's not GOD that is the opposite and we both know whom that is a referral too. 

Dey Didn't do Nuffin 🤣.  I love when they say those wronged are long Dead.  This is the absurdity of this.  The one contesting you can't explain why you and I are the 1st Generation to attend integrated Schools. And my 31 year old Son was just the 2nd Generation.  My mom came to visit me 3 weeks.  She is 74 years old and couldn't even go into a Restaurant, ride where she wanted on a bus or walk on the SIde walk with white men walking toward her and this damn sure wasn't the 1800's.  Revisionism and Forgetism is just a way to feign ignorance.  How many Black people died for their Freedom.  I will assure you more black blood was spilled for our freedom than white.   Lets' go down this alley of Blood and compare the moral absurdity of revisionism.  There were slaves alive in the 1970's.  1865 didn't end Slavery for Black people. The Emancipation Imagination didn't magically change their conditions.       

This Nation conduct 1,500 wars sponsored by the Federal Government against Indians who at one time numbered 5 - 6 million on arrival and at one pointed number 238K.  Genocide of a Red Man to take his land to Enslave A Black man to Empower an Empire to BOMB the Yellow and Brown Man.   They now revise history and tell you well the diseases killed the Native population.  It's B.S. promulgated by ignorant people who hate to admit this was a Nation of Racist founded by racism for Racists. 

From the time Europeans arrived on American shores, the frontier—the edge territory between white man’s civilization and the untamed natural world—became a shared space of vast, clashing differences that led the U.S. government to authorize over 1,500 wars, attacks and raids on Indians, the most of any country in the world against its indigenous people. By the close of the Indian Wars in the late 19th century, fewer than 238,000 indigenous people remained, a sharp decline from the estimated 5 million to 15 million living in North America when Columbus arrived in 1492.

The reasons for this racial genocide were multi-layered. Settlers, most of whom had been barred from inheriting property in Europe, arrived on American shores hungry for Indian land—and the abundant natural resources that came with it. Indians’ collusion with the British during the American Revolution and the War of 1812 exacerbated American hostility and suspicion toward them.

Even more fundamentally, indigenous people were just too different: Their skin was dark. Their languages were foreign. And their world views and spiritual beliefs were beyond most white men’s comprehension.

 

Who exactly is supposed to have bloody knees from praying for forgiveness?

Most Native Americans - the overwhelming majority - died from disease. Not war. And war was hardly introduced by the White Man. The people who were neighbors of the Aztecs would have had stories to tell as their hearts were ripped out and their severed heads were tossed to the bottom of the pyramid.

Europeans conquered, just as peoples of all colors and creeds have done when the opportunity presented itself - since before recorded history.

Native Americans killed and enslaved one another. It's true!

Black Africans were originally enslaved by... other Black Africans. Imagine that...

Your "White European as center of all evil" posts are really one-sided and really fucking old.

 

[Testadura]

6 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

Just the B.S. done to Blacks and Indians here should make anyone that Believes in GOD.   ***

I'll unpack your post later, but what jumped out was your grouping of blacks with Indians.  Read a bit about Diogenes, too, respectfully.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/how-native-american-slaveholders-complicate-trail-tears-narrative-180968339/

[title]  "How Native American Slaveholders Complicate the Trail of Tears Narrative"

***

What you probably don’t picture are Cherokee slaveholders, foremost among them Cherokee chief John Ross. What you probably don’t picture are the numerous African-American slaves, Cherokee-owned, who made the brutal march themselves, or else were shipped en masse to what is now Oklahoma aboard cramped boats by their wealthy Indian masters.

***

These uncomfortable complications in the narrative were brought to the forefront at a recent event held at the National Museum of the American Indian.

***

 In the case of the Trail of Tears and the enslavement of blacks by prominent members of all five so-called “Civilized Tribes” (Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek and Seminole), Smith went one step further, likening the ugly truth of history to a “mangy, snarling dog standing between you and a crowd-pleasing narrative.”

“Obviously,” Smith said, “the story should be, needs to be, that the enslaved black people and soon-to-be-exiled red people would join forces and defeat their oppressor.” But such was not the case—far from it. “The Five Civilized Tribes were deeply committed to slavery, established their own racialized black codes, immediately reestablished slavery when they arrived in Indian territory, rebuilt their nations with slave labor, crushed slave rebellions, and enthusiastically sided with the Confederacy in the Civil War.”

In other words, the truth is about as far a cry from a “crowd-pleasing narrative” as you could possibly get. “Do you want to hear that?” Smith asked the audience. “I don’t think so. Nobody does.” And yet, Smith is firm in his belief that it is a museum’s duty to embrace and elucidate ambiguity, not sweep it under the rug in the pursuit of some cleaner fiction.

Tiya Miles, an African-American historian at the University of Michigan, agrees. At the “Finding Common Ground” event, she meticulously laid out primary-source evidence to paint a picture of Indian/African-American relations in the years leading up to the Civil War.

***

How would slave ownership prove civilization? The answer, Miles contends, is that in capitalism-crazed America, slaves became tokens of economic success. The more slaves you owned, the more serious a businessperson you were, and the more serious a businessperson you were, the fitter you were to join the ranks of “civilized society.” It’s worth remembering, as Paul Chaat Smith says, that while most Native Americans did not own slaves, neither did most Mississippi whites. Slave ownership was a serious status symbol.

Smith and Miles agree that much of early American history is explained poorly by modern morality but effectively by simple economics and power dynamics. “The Cherokee owned slaves for the same reasons their white neighbors did. They knew exactly what they were doing. In truth,” Smith said, the Cherokee and other “Civilized Tribes were not that complicated. They were willful and determined oppressors of blacks they owned, enthusiastic participants in a global economy driven by cotton, and believers in the idea that they were equal to whites and superior to blacks.

***

What the slaveholding of Ross and other Civilized Nations leaders does mean, however, is that our assumptions regarding clearly differentiated heroes and villains are worth pushing back on.

***

"I don’t know why our brains make it so hard to compute that Jackson had a terrible Indian policy and radically expanded American democracy,” Smith said, “or that John Ross was a skillful leader for the Cherokee nation who fought the criminal policy of removal with every ounce of strength, but also a man who deeply believed in and practiced the enslavement of black people.”

As Paul Chaat Smith said to conclude his remarks, the best maxim to take to heart when confronting this sort of history may be a quote from African anti-colonial leader Amílcar Cabral: “Tell no lies, and claim no easy victories.”

[Testadura]

1 hour ago, DevilDog said:

Like their forefathers and the indigenous people.  Your views and reality and stories handed down are beyond their comprehension.  Once that reality manifests.  You realize you are talking to an 1800 European rehashed.  😎

why are you now picking on Horsefly?  he's thinking for himself

[Testadura]

5 hours ago, Troll said:

As I Indicated previously...

You need work on your gratuitous  put downs.

 

but keep up the effort 👍

 

You don't look stupid at all....

 

 

 

 

really

😜

I'll explain things to you later.  for now, just keep quiet.  my migraine is finally subsiding.

[Testadura]

6 hours ago, Horsefly said:

To answer your question, America was freed from the ACT of slavery when it ratified the 13th amendment.  That’s it.   America however was not exonerated from slavery.  It doesn’t have the power to do so 

Every individual though is accountable for their actions, regardless of race, color or creed, to be judged by God.  

you know everyone on this board thinks black slavery was probably the worst atrocity in history.  The Jewish Holocaust.  Up there, too.

no one can repay that debt.  no one can figure out that debt.  no one can claim that debt, perhaps.

some here just are arguing against it being used as a politicized weapon.  when that happens, it's cheapened, and we all suffer.

God Bless.

 

 

[DevilDog]

4 hours ago, Testadura said:

I'll unpack your post later, but what jumped out was your grouping of blacks with Indians.  Read a bit about Diogenes, too, respectfully.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/how-native-american-slaveholders-complicate-trail-tears-narrative-180968339/

[title]  "How Native American Slaveholders Complicate the Trail of Tears Narrative"

 

I find you to be quite astute.  We need to have a conversation away from this board or an IM sometime.  I am well aware of Native American Slave holders.  But what is offensive is the constant whataboutism. There is no huge Indian slavery of African Americans.  As a matter of fact many were aware the had the same enemy and many took in African American Runaways. Look up Bracketville, Tx.  To this day there is a Seminole Creole language and more African Americans have indigenous blood than Europeans. There were vast places of this interaction and produced many of these types.  The Buffalo Soldiers fathered many kids with Indian Women in West Texas.  My Hero half black and Half Native American.  Certified Bad Ass Cowboy Nat Love.   And Bass Reeves the Real Lone Ranger below him 

 

Reeves severely beat his owner, and fled to the Indian Territory where he lived as a fugitive slave among the Cherokee, Creeks and Seminoles Bass stayed in the Indian Territories and learned their languages until he was freed by the Thirteenth Amendment, which abolished slavery, in 1865.

Before cutting his hair

 

Same person after cutting his hair and becoming one Bad Ass U.S Marshall.  

 

.

 

And there were a lot of them and it wasn't mostly because of Indian enslaving black people either. 

[DevilDog]

6 hours ago, concha said:

 

Who exactly is supposed to have bloody knees from praying for forgiveness?

Most Native Americans - the overwhelming majority - died from disease. Not war. And war was hardly introduced by the White Man. The people who were neighbors of the Aztecs would have had stories to tell as their hearts were ripped out and their severed heads were tossed to the bottom of the pyramid.

Europeans conquered, just as peoples of all colors and creeds have done when the opportunity presented itself - since before recorded history.

Native Americans killed and enslaved one another. It's true!

Black Africans were originally enslaved by... other Black Africans. Imagine that...

Your "White European as center of all evil" posts are really one-sided and really fucking old.

 

So you are saying that America is justified for it's B.S. because well someone else did.  Now show us where those others wrote the same B.S. like the Constitution.  I thought you were well above the savages that were enslaved.  I love it when well of course we were full of B.S. well because a Indian killed another one and a African Enslaved another one..  Not one Indian or African came to your house and took your shit and enslaved you. The moral cry of equivalence is getting old.  White supremacy will not allow ones brain housing group to process facts.  it will automatically default to revisionism or whataboutism.  Telling you that Those fucking savages were racist sets off your neurons.  Telling me some AFRICAN was a bastard for enslaving another African don't incite the same Neadterthug reaction.   It's as if You are Jefferson believe me you are not.  And Read something other than American History and learn what the World thinks.  IF America was not founded on what I said explain this.  

The second paragraph of the United States Declaration of Independence starts as follows: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.  (This was for White Men ONLY)

If they WERE not Racist Why was there a need for the 13th Amendment. 

IF they were Not Racist and the Emancipation Proclamation freed Black People.  Why were there need for the following:

Plessey vs. Ferguson

Brown vs. Board of education

If it was not B.S. and the 15th Amendment gives one the RIGHT TO VOTE.  Why did I need a VOTING Rights ACT in 1965.  Don't insult my damn intelligence?  Blacks were beaten and dogs sicked on our Fathers not in 1865 in 1965 to fucking vote. 

Why were there Black Codes, Peonage, Sun Down Laws.  JIM CROW.  THERE ARE BLACK PEOPLE ALIVE TODAY THAT LIVED UNDER THIS B.S. YOU DIDN'T HERE THE STORIES BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE OUR GRAND PARENTS.  YOUR BEST GENERATION WERE A HORROR TO THEM. 

TUSKEGEE EXPERIMENT GOD DAMMIT THIS WAS PURE EVIL

UNJUST SENTENCING TO THIS VERY DAY. 

 

I didn't address you once or mention you name.  Throw a rock in a pile of Dogs and the hit dog will Yelp. 

 The biggest racist.  He caused more mental damage than 250 years of Shackle bondage.  Why is Church on Sunday the most segregated day in America.  Because of the followers of this image below.   The same image the founding racist worshiped.   Imagine worshiping an image that looks like your enslaver.    Now tell me ABOUT THE mind that created this picture below.  I will wait the answer.  It damn sure isn't a solitary one either. 

[DevilDog]

The underdevelopment of Africa by Europe (Pure Racism)  Stop insulting peoples intelligence.  I damn sure don't give a damn about someone getting sensitive over the truth as if one is pointing you out personally.  Get over your superiority complex.  You are nothing more than a Lucky benefactor of a brilliant Bull Shitter.😂

What caused Africa’s underdevelopment is a complex issue. Europe’s past (and present) exploitation of Africa played a significant part. Before the Europeans arrived in Africa, Africa had vibrant economic, social and political structures. These were severely disrupted by Europeans to create wealth for themselves.

European dominance over most of Africa through the transatlantic slave trade lasted 440 years, from 1444 to 1885.

Triangular trade

Starting from the arrival of Portuguese ships on west African shores in 1444, the Europeans set up an elaborate triangular trading system to transport enslaved Africans, import plantation produce, and export European goods to both Africa and the Americas.

'Shipments were all by Europeans to markets controlled by Europeans, and this was in the interest of European capitalism and nothing else.'

The transatlantic slave trade caused the forced removal from Africa of millions of Africans. This number included a large percentage of skilled tradesmen and women from a range of occupations and professions who were making their contribution to African societies. Without them, African societies themselves were weakened.

Africa had trading systems which had developed over hundreds of years – well before Europeans ever arrived on their shores. Europeans destroyed these systems in large areas of Africa when they developed the trade in enslaved Africans. Local systems were badly affected and overwhelmed by the demands of the new trade in enslaved Africans, a trade imposed by the better developed guns and ships of the Europeans.

Trade and domination
Slave trading undermined the ‘Gold Coast’ economy of west Africa. It destroyed the gold trade. Slave raiding and kidnapping made it unsafe to mine the land or to travel with gold. The Europeans’ demand for slaves made raiding for captives more profitable than gold mining. The transatlantic slave trade encouraged Africans to wage war against one another and conduct raids, instead of building more peaceful links.

Europeans used their superior shipping and skills and military power (primarily their guns) to dominate trade to and from Africa. Europeans became the leading traders of Asian and African consumer goods. This was particularly striking in the early centuries of trade. Europeans relied heavily on Indian cloths for resale in Africa. They also purchased cloths from several parts of the west African coast for resale elsewhere. Morocco, Mauritania, Senegambia, Ivory Coast, Benin, Yorubaland and Loango were all exporters to other parts of Africa – through European middlemen.

By the time that Africa had escaped the shackles of the slave trade and entered the colonial era, its main export was raw cotton. Yet its main import was manufactured cotton cloth. This remarkable irony points not only to technological advance in Europe but also, and most importantly, to the stagnation of technology in Africa owing to the trade with Europe. Europeans did not want African states to develop their own technology. They did not want them to be able to make their own manufactured goods.

African resistance and independence
Exploitation did not end with the ending of the transatlantic slave trade. Britain began to ban the trade in slaves from 1807, and it was not until 1957 that the Gold Coast – now Ghana – finally became the first African country south of the Sahara to become independent from European rulers. This period of time was filled with long, bitter colonial conflicts. These conflicts were not always wars in the usual way with armies and guns.

For 150 years after 1807, Europe tried to control Africa and its wealth. They used brutal massacres as well as treachery, for example involving the bribing of African chiefs, and betrayal of their treaties and agreements, such as with Queen Nzinga of the area now called Angola, in their attempts to do this. Africans would use all their available resources to defend their people and territories. They would fight back against the Europeans with guerrilla tactics, sabotage, non cooperation and by the destruction of those crops and businesses based in Africa that benefited the Europeans.

Many Africans fought and worked to gain political independence from Europe, often inspired by the 5th Pan African Congress held in Manchester in 1945. African countries did eventually gain formal political independence from the Europeans. However, Europeans still exerted a huge amount of influence on how African countries developed. Their natural resources were still mainly owned and managed by European investors. Europeans still owned much African land. Europeans were still the main buyers of African crops and minerals. Africans had to cope with these issues as well as many other legacies of the European controlling presence in Africa.

In addition to all of these developments, Africa also had to deal with some key events including the dividing up of Africa into distinct countries by the European powers that took place at the Berlin Africa Conference (1884-1885), and the impact of two world wars.

Ongoing exploitation
Some would argue that Africa has never freed itself from domination by the west. In the late twentieth century and in the twenty first century, the relationship between the west and Africa has been primarily one of exploitation. International trading agreements with Africa have been unfair on African countries. These agreements have been overly influenced by western big businesses. Such unfair agreements and relationships have allowed individual African officials to get rich while the region sells itself cheaply and develops no infrastructure.

This relationship of exploitation has been a common feature of the European intervention in Africa. It started with the arrival of the missionaries, and continued with the arrival of European merchants and mercenaries, and most lately, with the western multinational corporations.

Economic instability
When economists look at African countries they generally find their economies are weak. There are regularly many economic signs of this, including:

a weak Gross Domestic Product (GDP, which measures the value of local production and its growth);
the exports of primary products and agricultural products getting smaller;
a low level of using modern industrial machines;
a terrible national debt to richer countries and the gap between rich and poor getting bigger and bigger.
On top of this, many multinational corporations do not even sell African products using prices established by the laws of supply and demand in a free market. Increased costs of production are not passed onto the consumers who buy the produce, instead they are sold from the source in Africa at a lower rate which means less income for African workers and business. The global market also sets a price on most of Africa’s exports and so the higher production cost cannot be recouped. At the same time, a rise in productivity will not necessarily lower world prices by an increase in supply, because the demand may remain fairly small. Africa has mostly been caught in this economic cycle. This is a fundamental inequality in international trade and once this has been set up it is difficult to change.

To sum up, we can say that an unequal trading system has been imposed on Africa by Europe from the mid fifteenth century onwards. This unequal trading system, in one form or another, continues today. It has meant that African countries have never built up sufficient national wealth to invest in their infrastructure (in things such as roads and electricity supply) and industry so that they can develop as countries properly.

 

 

[DevilDog]

Let me guess this is just made up and somewhere in Africa they burned down a village so there I said it for you. Now you don't get to use that out.  I bet 90% of you have no idea about this.  The only American City to be bombed by air. These  Racist dropped Dynamite from Airplanes.  Even to this day Blacks are affected. This is their reality because their Grand Parents told them about this hidden B.S.  GUESS WHO DIDN'T WANT TO DISCUSS IT.  THEY WEREN'T THERE SO WHY THE FEAR.  IT'S THE SUPREMACY COMPLEX.  I KNOW TURN THE OTHER CHEEK AND GET OVER IT. The most ridiculous statements uttered to people.   These were brutal damn racist.