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Reuters: "Slavery not a crime for almost half the countries in the world--study"


Testadura

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On 2/14/2020 at 2:18 PM, Testadura said:

[What you wrote seems better suited for 1950 or 1960.  I liked the essence of your post and where your heart is.  Just some comments:]

That is at the heart of it right here.  I've never understood the need to defend or deflect or whataboutism concerning racism.  [The universities politicized race, gender, sexual preference since at least 1967.  From there, it went mainstream.  It's a politicized issue most of the time.  Professors in those courses of study will say it's political.  Man is the political animal.  Aristotle.I doubt this strategy makes people feel any better and is not helpful to anybody IMO.  [Politicization is not helpful.]  The ability to actually listen and to have at least some empathy is required and that so few are willing to do so is just another wasted opportunity to have a common understanding.  [People do listen.  The radio is constantly blaring and playing.  DD's posts are very good and informative, but you didn't read what he wrote:  "I understand American History and I look at it differently as do most Black People.  Those are just the facts."  Essentially, listening to whites' "precepts and concepts of others * * * lead you to their tutelage and their guidance.  Which is in their best interest not my own.  * * *  You don't have the same relevance of them as we do and I get that and understand that.  * * *  This is a side of the Forum is reserved for a subset that promulgates lies and falsehoods each day ad nauseam.  * * *  So yes have a knowledge of history and leaves a distaste and of course it should not be the same for you.  * * *  Now get back to your privilege of saying nasty Shit to people on here and stop giving me your Tutelage.  I whole heartedly reject it."  So, you said "common understanding," but his anger aside, DD isn't down for that, and I'm not saying he should be.  It's like you're white-splaining his clear message into what you'd like it to say--it doesn't.  He understandably--like Stokely Carmichael and Malcolm X didn't--doesn't need well-meaning whites helping him draw conclusions and deliver his message.  That's a major part of his point.  Being nice to him and patronizing him aren't the same as respecting him.]

To those who are tired of hearing about racism, consider how tiring it is to have to deal with racism and having to explain it to those with guilty/hurt feelings.  [???]  It cost absolutely nothing to listen and believe [That's not true.] those who are telling you what their experiences are [Most people know more about the history of slavery and the Holocaust than they do about The Federalist Papers, or how exactly capitalism beat out socialism, or why our form of gov't has beat out all others, or why our nation is the most successful and free by most measures, etc.], and in doing so your guilt will decrease [I wasn't guilty to begin with, as I understand guilt used here to mean, and listening without knowing why I'm listening isn't as productive as listening with a purpose.  Teaching history is a truth-driven, not selective, endeavor.  If there's an agenda, and I'm not saying DD has one, then listening is costly on some level.] and your knowledge and shared humanity can only increase.  [It really depends.  DD is passionate and enlightened in a certain direction.  He admittedly and summarily dismisses anything contextual or contrarian or somewhat off-message as simple false white history.  So, read his words, please, and do not think what you thought he meant or think what you'd like him to have meant; and then decide.] Again, this costs nothing and is as simple as changing your thoughts about it.  [You can fill in this bracket by yourself by now.  No one disagrees that slavery was probably the worst atrocity.  What more???  Only so much time to learn so many other things.  Father Time is always ticking--we can't read and learn everything.  Black history is a small part of being educated.  Even Obama would agree with that.  When is the subject temporarily exhausted so people can move to unlearned and ignored people, events, and ideas.  I think that reading Shakespeare and Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man taught me more about black people and our common humanity than did "Eyes on the Prize" or Toni Morrison, although the Song of Solomon was terrific--both were.]

Appreciating the knowledge brother.  [It's always good to be gracious to a good man like DD.]

I do believe you missed the point of my post entirely.  I'm not going to go over each point but will just say that I was not and am not 'whitesplaining' DD's message at all.  I was adding my own thoughts on the matter as it relates to white people and their initial gut reaction to the topic of racism in this country.  I'm not sure how long you have read on this side of the forum but a quick search on racism will give you a better idea on who I was talking to and referring to in my post.  

If you do not have the initial reaction of guilt/defensiveness/etc, than that is good for you.  That is the reaction of so many in this country when confronted with uncomfortable topics like racism, white privilege, and the BLM movement.  Those people and their reactions (defensive, feeling like they are being attacked, feeling like they are being judged as good or bad) are who I feel need to be honest and open to discussion.  Hell, I myself have been called a 'white nazi racist' on this forum for simply being supportive of BLM.  

The politicization of racism is true enough.  So is institutional racism and individual racism and biases.  People who have a difficult time talking about this subject are the ones that are needing to listen IMO.  And they don't.  

I did read DD's words.  I was not attempting to post on what I think DD meant.  I was posting on what I think as it relates to some white peoples gut reaction to these topics.  

Only so much time to learn?  IMO, the original sin of this country warrants us to come to terms with it, no matter how uncomfortable it may be.  And it is uncomfortable for many, and each individual must confront these questions about racism and white privilege if we are ever to move past it.  I have lived my whole life having white privilege and most of that time I hadn't even thought about it.  That doesn't make me a bad person and it does not mean I am racist.  If I deny that I have had white privilege I am merely protecting myself from having uncomfortable conversations which will only keep the status quo.  Black History may be a small part of the overall knowledge of the human experience but it is no less important than anything else.  Maybe more so since it involves person to person interactions, which IMO are the most difficult and the most rewarding.  

Probably didn't explain myself any better this time.  

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On 2/14/2020 at 1:37 PM, World Citizen said:

That is at the heart of it right here.  I've never understood the need to defend or deflect or whataboutism concerning racism.  I doubt this strategy makes people feel any better and is not helpful to anybody IMO.  The ability to actually listen and to have at least some empathy is required and that so few are willing to do so is just another wasted opportunity to have a common understanding.  

To those who are tired of hearing about racism, consider how tiring it is to have to deal with racism and having to explain it to those with guilty/hurt feelings.  It cost absolutely nothing to listen and believe those who are telling you what their experiences are, and in doing so your guilt will decrease and your knowledge and shared humanity can only increase.  Again, this costs nothing and is as simple as changing your thoughts about it.  

Appreciating the knowledge brother.  

It's ok to be white. 

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2 hours ago, World Citizen said:

I do believe you missed the point of my post entirely.  I'm not going to go over each point but will just say that I was not and am not 'whitesplaining' DD's message at all.  I was adding my own thoughts on the matter as it relates to white people and their initial gut reaction to the topic of racism in this country.  I'm not sure how long you have read on this side of the forum but a quick search on racism will give you a better idea on who I was talking to and referring to in my post.  

If you do not have the initial reaction of guilt/defensiveness/etc, than that is good for you.  That is the reaction of so many in this country when confronted with uncomfortable topics like racism, white privilege, and the BLM movement.  Those people and their reactions (defensive, feeling like they are being attacked, feeling like they are being judged as good or bad) are who I feel need to be honest and open to discussion.  Hell, I myself have been called a 'white nazi racist' on this forum for simply being supportive of BLM.  

The politicization of racism is true enough.  So is institutional racism and individual racism and biases.  People who have a difficult time talking about this subject are the ones that are needing to listen IMO.  And they don't.  

I did read DD's words.  I was not attempting to post on what I think DD meant.  I was posting on what I think as it relates to some white peoples gut reaction to these topics.  

Only so much time to learn?  IMO, the original sin of this country warrants us to come to terms with it, no matter how uncomfortable it may be.  And it is uncomfortable for many, and each individual must confront these questions about racism and white privilege if we are ever to move past it.  I have lived my whole life having white privilege and most of that time I hadn't even thought about it.  That doesn't make me a bad person and it does not mean I am racist.  If I deny that I have had white privilege I am merely protecting myself from having uncomfortable conversations which will only keep the status quo.  Black History may be a small part of the overall knowledge of the human experience but it is no less important than anything else.  Maybe more so since it involves person to person interactions, which IMO are the most difficult and the most rewarding.  

Probably didn't explain myself any better this time.  

Again man it's ok to be White. I really don't think Gunny (a black man) needs your help or for you to co-sign his views on racism.

Being a minority I find  it insulting when someone who is not a minority feels the need to put down their own race. To prove how "woke" they are.

Just my .02. Not looking for a fight WC. I don't agree with shit you say but I know you're a good seed.

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People are born with advantages and disadvantages in life every day.  Trying to right prior wrongs is perfectly understandable, but not everyone sees things as everyone else.  If the sole focus of your life is wallowing in the past, life will be very unrewarding.  Better to focus on the present and the future and make the very best of your life circumstances.  Activism for the present is worthwhile, for the past it is likely to be unhelpful.

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12 hours ago, thc6795 said:

Again man it's ok to be White. I really don't think Gunny (a black man) needs your help or for you to co-sign his views on racism.

Being a minority I find  it insulting when someone who is not a minority feels the need to put down their own race. To prove how "woke" they are.

Just my .02. Not looking for a fight WC. I don't agree with shit you say but I know you're a good seed.

It's like I lost touch with the public in 1991 when I went to law school.  Rip Van Winkle-like.  I worked non-stop there as I had never done before--stopped watching even football.  After graduating in 1994, I worked like a fucking dog till now, and I'm still at it (26 yrs of hell that no one in my family had ever endured--not for such a prolonged period, but they grew up in different generations and had not known what the legal profession was going to turn into).  health problems from constant stress, which my money and privilege can't fix.  wife, 3 kids, and I finally start to have some time to look around and smell some roses, and I now found out from a largely balls-less bunch that I'm privileged and I'm "the" problem--I've been "problematized."  my whiteness is a problem, meaning I'm a problem.  are you fucking kidding me.  I'm fine with the radicals who have been ginning this shit up for decades to get more power and money for themselves (hey, that's their jobs), but for the dolts who buy into it I have no sympathy or respect.

I went to sleep, and MLK's vision was the Gold Standard; then we had a black President and achieved other milestones; and I then wake up and H Rap Brown is now in charge, and he's not protesting any more, but giving woke lectures to all Ivy League professors and its students, and any other morons who'll listen.

and I actually met some of the indoctrinated on a FOOTBALL board in 2020.  (Rivals was less political and seemingly less Far Left wing, and so, I have to imagine that this is in part the younger generation.  Gen Z isn't this bad from what I'm told, but the radicals never give up--they earn their living doing this while the rest of work and raise families.)  I can only imagine what people who don't take to football think.

You know, MLK never asked for this level of prostration.  lol  Malcolm X just said, stay out of his way.  Get off the pharma drugs and propaganda, and experience manhood.

This isn't yet Stockholm Syndrome, but the seeds are visible

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1 hour ago, Testadura said:

It's like I lost touch with the public in 1991 when I went to law school.  Rip Van Winkle-like.  I worked non-stop there as I had never done before--stopped watching even football.  After graduating in 1994, I worked like a fucking dog till now, and I'm still at it (26 yrs of hell that no one in my family had ever endured--not for such a prolonged period, but they grew up in different generations and had not known what the legal profession was going to turn into).  health problems from constant stress, which my money and privilege can't fix.  wife, 3 kids, and I finally start to have some time to look around and smell some roses, and I now found out from a largely balls-less bunch that I'm privileged and I'm "the" problem--I've been "problematized."  my whiteness is a problem, meaning I'm a problem.  are you fucking kidding me.  I'm fine with the radicals who have been ginning this shit up for decades to get more power and money for themselves (hey, that's their jobs), but for the dolts who buy into it I have no sympathy or respect.

I went to sleep, and MLK's vision was the Gold Standard; then we had a black President and achieved other milestones; and I then wake up and H Rap Brown is now in charge, and he's not protesting any more, but giving woke lectures to all Ivy League professors and its students, and any other morons who'll listen.

and I actually met some of the indoctrinated on a FOOTBALL board in 2020.  (Rivals was less political and seemingly less Far Left wing, and so, I have to imagine that this is in part the younger generation.  Gen Z isn't this bad from what I'm told, but the radicals never give up--they earn their living doing this while the rest of work and raise families.)  I can only imagine what people who don't take to football think.

You know, MLK never asked for this level of prostration.  lol  Malcolm X just said, stay out of his way.  Get off the pharma drugs and propaganda, and experience manhood.

This isn't yet Stockholm Syndrome, but the seeds are visible

White privilege doesn’t mean you don’t work hard but has more to do with general benefits given to whites that dominate the country, politically, legally and economically.  It manifests itself through intentional/unintentional bias.   That’s the short of it, stats support the claim.  

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2 hours ago, Testadura said:

It's like I lost touch with the public in 1991 when I went to law school.  Rip Van Winkle-like.  I worked non-stop there as I had never done before--stopped watching even football.  After graduating in 1994, I worked like a fucking dog till now, and I'm still at it (26 yrs of hell that no one in my family had ever endured--not for such a prolonged period, but they grew up in different generations and had not known what the legal profession was going to turn into).  health problems from constant stress, which my money and privilege can't fix.  wife, 3 kids, and I finally start to have some time to look around and smell some roses, and I now found out from a largely balls-less bunch that I'm privileged and I'm "the" problem--I've been "problematized."  my whiteness is a problem, meaning I'm a problem.  are you fucking kidding me. 

[...]

My father was in prison for most of my childhood and my mom had all sorts of problems. We bought groceries with food stamps and lived in government housing, but because I'm a white male, I'm privileged in this society. I got where I am today because this country's institutions are geared to my success. 

Kobe's daughter, who traveled by private helicopter, wouldn't have been so lucky. As a woman and a person of color, she would've been hit hard twice and therefore would've struggled mightily to get by in this country, since its institutions are set up to keep people like her down. 

Right?

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30 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

White privilege doesn’t mean you don’t work hard but has more to do with general benefits given to whites that dominate the country, politically, legally and economically.  It manifests itself through intentional/unintentional bias.   That’s the short of it, stats support the claim.  

I don't doubt that white people, on average, enjoy privileges that black people, on average, don't. 

But those are very general categories, which is why we can't reliably infer that this person is privileged from the fact that he's white or that that person isn't from the fact that he's black.

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2 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

I don't doubt that white people, on average, enjoy privileges that black people, on average, don't. 

But those are very general categories, which is why we can't reliably infer that this person is privileged from the fact that he's white or that that person isn't from the fact that he's black.

That’s the essence of the privilege and it has existed for centuries, many earlier biases codified by laws in availability to home loans, deed restrictions, redlining that have impacted black wealth over the years as an example. 

read the Black Tax by Shawn Rochester.  It’s a short but informative read that goes deeper in examples of biases in the US and the areas it has impacted black populations in general 

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diversity_training.thumb.jpg.923553189ca8542ae922418a2a26a86a.jpg

This is a screenshot from a mandatory training module I completed in November. It was about an hour long and was full of things like this. 

It included an explanation, which I didn't find very compelling, of why women underperform in STEM.

The goal used to be to treat everyone equally. Now that's not sufficient. Now we must proactively correct historical power imbalances. 

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4 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

That’s the essence of the privilege and it has existed for centuries, many earlier biases codified by laws in availability to home loans, deed restrictions, redlining that have impacted black wealth over the years as an example. 

read the Black Tax by Shawn Rochester.  It’s a short but informative read that goes deeper in examples of biases in the US and the areas it has impacted black populations in general 

I get it. (Or I think I do.)

But why is it okay to commit an injustice to this person today in order to correct for an injustice done to that person yesterday?

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2 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

I get it. (Or I think I do.)

But why is it okay to commit an injustice to this person today in order to correct for an injustice done to that person yesterday?

The injustices I listed are still off balance today. There are still imbalances in sentencing for some drug abuses such as marijuana even though stats show useage between the races is similar, there are still imbalances in home and car loan rates even when factors are all equal.  

The argument is that we have differences in the past and in many areas we still do.  
 

 

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18 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

diversity_training.thumb.jpg.923553189ca8542ae922418a2a26a86a.jpg

This is a screenshot from a mandatory training module I completed in November. It was about an hour long and was full of things like this. 

It included an explanation, which I didn't find very compelling, of why women underperform in STEM.

The goal used to be to treat everyone equally. Now that's not sufficient. Now we must proactively correct historical power imbalances. 

How did they say you correct power imbalances,  and how is that going to factor against those decision makers that are in the position to correct this imbalance who overwhelmingly are white males?  

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11 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

That’s the essence of the privilege and it has existed for centuries, many earlier biases codified by laws...

[...]

I once asked a colleague whether we could fix her worry about implicit biases by removing names and all other indicators from applicants' CVs. She said that wouldn't be sufficient, because white men, on average, would have stronger CVs because of their privilege. 

So she was happy to choose a less qualified applicant for the sake of greater diversity. 

That seems like a mistake to me. What's your take?

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9 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

The injustices I listed are still off balance today. There are still imbalances in sentencing for some drug abuses such as marijuana even though stats show useage between the races is similar, there are still imbalances in home and car loan rates even when factors are all equal.  

The argument is that we have differences in the past and in many areas we still do.  

It's hard to chat about, because it's such a complex issue, and there are a lot of moving parts. 

I don't have strong opinion on these particular cases and am inclined to take your word for it. 

I'd like to chat more about it, but I'm making dinner for my wife tonight and I've got to run to the store before the day gets away from me. 

Take care. 

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5 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

I once asked a colleague whether we could fix her worry about implicit biases by removing names and all other indicators from applicants' CVs. She said that wouldn't be sufficient, because white men, on average, would have stronger CVs because of their privilege. 

So she was happy to choose a less qualified applicant for the sake of greater diversity. 

That seems like a mistake to me. What's your take?

Of course it is a bad hiring practice, but what you are conveniently leaving out are the examples of white males that have been elevated to positions that weren’t qualified, they were simply beneficiaries of a good boy club.  Biases exist and those that look like those in position of power have a tendency to benefit the most.  Qualified or not.  

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19 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

The injustices I listed are still off balance today. There are still imbalances in sentencing for some drug abuses such as marijuana even though stats show useage between the races is similar, there are still imbalances in home and car loan rates even when factors are all equal.  

The argument is that we have differences in the past and in many areas we still do.  
 

 

Its's hard to convince people that believe Jesus is White,  That created a Pseudo Science Egyptology whose sole purpose was to prove that magical White People lived in 100 Degree weather with their skin exposed.  No matter they left pictures that need no damn explanation.  That  a Fat man in Red Boots represents Yeshua's Birthday and somehow Rabbits and Baskets equal his resurrection.  Anyone that promulgates that IMHO can in no way understand much about anything unless it's glorification of themselves.  I will say it again you cannot have a discussion on Racism with the Person(s) that have failed with it for 400 years.  I am sorry but asking  White Males to understand racism is like asking a serial rapists to understand the emotional and physical toll on females.  My mother could not eat in a Fucking Restaurant in most places in the 1960s in her 20's.   Yet there should be no repercussions with dealing with that nonsense daily.  My Grandmother feared white people like they were NAZI's.  She would call a teenager Sir and Ma'am.  Now try to get them to understand why.  She lived under Terrorism.  

You can give them Marijuana stats and they will claim it's because blacks are caught with it more.   That's why when I respond I do with as much force as I can.  I come in understanding whom I am talking to is adverse to anything not shrouded in a bunch of B.S. and whataboutism.  Banneker has his place but Turner gets more reaction.   MLK was hated by 65% of white America and described as a trouble maker and only Khrushcev was hated more.  He would have been the judged in 1865 just as he was in 1965.  That Mindset is troubling. 

There is never a problem on the Plantation till the Slave Revolts.  i am sure this statement alone will escape most of their comprehension. Though it describes a multitude of problems.  But only the slave could see them.  Remember they thought the slave was happy.  Wrote Books and Movies depicting that with Shirley Temple representing some of that nonsense as well. 

 

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1 minute ago, DevilDog said:

Its's hard to convince people that believe Jesus is White,  That created a Pseudo Science Egyptology whose sole purpose was to prove that magical White People lived in 100 Degree weather with their skin exposed.  No matter they left pictures that need no damn explanation.  That  a Fat man in Red Boots represents Yeshua's Birthday and somehow Rabbits and Baskets equal his resurrection.  Anyone that promulgates that IMHO can in no way understand much about anything unless it's glorification of themselves.  I will say it again you cannot have a discussion on Racism with the Person(s) that have failed with it for 400 years.  I am sorry but asking  White Males to understand racism is like asking a serial rapists to understand the emotional and physical toll on females.  My mother could not eat in a Fucking Restaurant in most places in the 1960s in her 20's.   M

You can give them Marijuana stats and they will claim it's because blacks are caught with it more.   That's why when I respond I do with as much force as I can.  I come in understanding whom I am talking to is adverse to anything not shrouded in a bunch of B.S. and whataboutism.  Banneker has his place but Turner gets more reaction.   MLK was hated by 65% of white America and described as a trouble maker and only Khrushcev was hated more.  He would have been the judged in 1865 just as he was in 1965.  That Mindset is torubling. 

Billy Bob is a reasonable person, what I hope he does is read the book and expand his understanding 

I don’t like giving pearls to swine, they don’t value it and never will.  One reason I don’t put a lot of energy battling some over here, they’re pigs in mentality   
 

   

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@Horsefly

If you could somehow convince just one of them to Study Douglass and Banneker and Not Washington and Jefferson ;you would eradicate much of this nonsense that encapsulates the inner workings of their Brain Housing Group.  You must be astute and resolute and never hide the dynamics.  They didn't understand that the slave was singing to hide his frustration and as a means to communicate with one another.  Call and response the forefather of Rapping.  The most accomplished POC are those that know of self and is as proud of self than anyone else.  This used to describe one as uppity.   

If only they respected a Man who educated himself with help and became Free Douglass over a Man that was a Slave owner who raped Sally Hemmings and claimed all men are created equal.  Now what reasonable human being can't see the misguiding's shrouded in this.   

Frederick Douglass’s Narrative: Myth of the Happy Slave

Frontispiece of original edition of Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, 1845
 

 

In 1845 the Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave, and Written by Himself was published. In it, Douglass criticizes directly—often with withering irony—those who defend slavery and those who prefer a romanticized version of it. Pitilessly, he offers the reader a first-hand account of the pain, humiliation, and brutality of the South's "peculiar institution.”

One myth that Southern slave owners and proponents perpetuated was that of the slave happily singing from dawn to dusk as he or she worked in the fields, prepared meals in the kitchen, or maintained the upkeep of the plantation. In his Narrative—particularly chapters 1 and 2— Douglass quickly distinguishes the myth from the reality. He uses incidents of cruelty that he witnessed along with songs of the slaves themselves—spirituals—to emphasize this distinction.

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Just now, DevilDog said:

@Horsefly

If you could somehow convince just one of them to Study Douglass and Banneker and Not Washington and Jefferson ;you would eradicate much of this nonsense that encapsulates the inner workings of their Brain Housing Group.  You must be astute and resolute and never hide the dynamics.  They didn't understand that the slave was singing to hide his frustration and as a means to communicate with one another.  Call and response the forefather of Rapping.  The most accomplished POC are those that know of self and is as proud of self than anyone else.  This used to describe one as uppity.   

If only they respected a Man who educated himself with help and became Free Douglass over a Man that was a Slave owner who raped Sally Hemmings and claimed all men are created equal.  Now what reasonable human being can't see the misguiding's shrouded in this.   

Frederick Douglass’s Narrative: Myth of the Happy Slave

Frontispiece of original edition of Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, 1845
 

 

In 1845 the Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave, and Written by Himself was published. In it, Douglass criticizes directly—often with withering irony—those who defend slavery and those who prefer a romanticized version of it. Pitilessly, he offers the reader a first-hand account of the pain, humiliation, and brutality of the South's "peculiar institution.”

One myth that Southern slave owners and proponents perpetuated was that of the slave happily singing from dawn to dusk as he or she worked in the fields, prepared meals in the kitchen, or maintained the upkeep of the plantation. In his Narrative—particularly chapters 1 and 2— Douglass quickly distinguishes the myth from the reality. He uses incidents of cruelty that he witnessed along with songs of the slaves themselves—spirituals—to emphasize this distinction.

I get it, but specifically, do you think Billy Bob has been unreasonable and stubborn in his willingness to know more or in how he has engaged us in these conversations? 

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16 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Billy Bob is a reasonable person, what I hope he does is read the book and expand his understanding 

I don’t like giving pearls to swine, they don’t value it and never will.  One reason I don’t put a lot of energy battling some over here, they’re pigs in mentality   
 

   

Indeed he is astute.  He and I remember had a discussion away from this site.  Again I don't throw rocks at a person.  i Throw them in a crowd and the one coming out yelping is exactly who I hoped to hit.  Or as Malcolm once said if a snake bites you.  You don't go in the woods looking for a snake with blood on his mouth any old snake will do.    😎   

 

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9 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

I get it, but specifically, do you think Billy Bob has been unreasonable and stubborn in his willingness to know more or in how he has engaged us in these conversations? 

I  am never ready to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone.  That is part of my experience and historically speaking and as a Marine.  I expect the worse of all people till they show me something different.  He may be conversing and behind the board calling you and I  slurs.   Why would I come to that conclusion says more about America than it does Me?  I would hope that he is but whether he is or not I will remain resolute in knowledge.   Each one Teach one.  I am sure many get pissed with me when I care to respond on topics like this.  I enjoying reading both of your takes.  I truly am.   But If I didn't know either of you and I was Thirsty and I saw you and him on a hill with a bucket of water I would instinctly run up the hill with you standing on it.  Why? because historically people that look like him have given me little water or tainted water.  So I would be a fool to give the benefit of the doubt.  Amen and Ameen. 

 

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