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Reuters: "Slavery not a crime for almost half the countries in the world--study"


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1 minute ago, DevilDog said:

I unlike am never ready to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone.  That is part of my experience and historically speaking and as a Marine.  I expect the worse of all people till they show me something different.  He may be conversing and behind the board calling you and I  slurs.   Why would I come to that conclusion says more about America than it does Me?  I would hope that he is but whether he is or not I will remain resolute in knowledge.   Each one Teach one.  I am sure many get pissed with me when I care to respond on topics like this.  I enjoying reading both of your takes.  I truly am.   But If I didn't know either of you and I was Thirsty and I saw you and him on a hill with a bucket of water I would instinctly run up the hill with you standing on it.  Why? because historically people that look like him have given me little water or tainted water.  So I would be a fool to give the benefit of the doubt.  Amen and Ameen.   

Fair enough, I get it and understand your position.  

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20 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Fair enough, I get it and understand your position.  

May Peace be with You and upon You.  Again I have appreciation for the dialogue between each of You.  I enjoy content from reasonable people.   You are not expected to be able to articulate anything critical about America as others somehow equate that to attack on Person(s) that' white Supremacy. What the hell do you think fosters You to have to answer for Jefferson.  I damn sure don't feel that Adi Amin and his fuckery is a reflection of me.  Jefferson was not a great and noble man. They will argue well that's how it was.  No it wasn't if that is the case then explain the people fighting against injustices back then.  The problem I have is the inability to comprehend the ECONOMIC toll on a people that had laws all the way to the 1960's to suppress and deny them equal Rights.  How is that hard to comprehend? And will to this day give you distortions and whataboutism.  .  It's supremacy and privilege without the privileged even having the common sense to see it.  Hell right now you are trying to explain the explainable to the unexplained. 😎

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If I had never Studied Banneker I would have the reverence of TJ as most of You because the School System never taught me this.  They taught me a bunch of B.S. And when you discover other truths what conclusion should one draw from this as a POC?  Yet you will not understand why I love Banneker and detest TJ. 

In a widely read discussion that set the terms of debate on this issue in America for decades to come, TJ oscillated between ascribing black intellectual inferiority to the workings of nature and attributing it to the impact of slavery. Though at times he virtually suggested that blacks were intellectually inferior to whites by nature, in the end he left it to science to determine whether nature or environment was responsible for what he perceived to be a distressing absence of intellectual accomplishment among blacks, especially in the arts and sciences. “I advance it therefore as a suspicion only,” he concluded, “that the blacks, whether originally a distinct race, or made distinct by time and circumstances, are inferior to the whites in the endowments both of body and mind” (Notes, ed. Peden, p. 137–43; Jordan, White over Black, p. 429–39). Benjamin Banneker was the first and only black man to challenge TJ’s suspicion directly during his lifetime.

 

He was too damn smart to be enslaved. 

 

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To Thomas Jefferson from Benjamin Banneker, 19 August 1791

From Benjamin Banneker

Maryland. Baltimore County. Near Ellicotts Lower Mills
August 19th: 1791

Sir

I am fully sensible of the greatness of that freedom which I take with you on the present occasion; a liberty which Seemed to me scarcely allowable, when I reflected on that distinguished, and dignifyed station in which you Stand; and the almost general prejudice and prepossession which is so prevailent in the world against those of my complexion.

I suppose it is a truth too well attested to you, to need a proof here, that we are a race of Beings who have long laboured under the abuse and censure of the world, that we have long been looked upon with an eye of contempt, and1 that we have long been considered rather as brutish than human, and Scarcely capable of mental endowments.

Sir I hope I may Safely admit, in consequence of that report which hath reached me, that you are a man far less inflexible in Sentiments of this nature, than many others, that you are measurably friendly and well disposed toward us, and that you are willing and ready to Lend your aid and assistance to our relief from those many distresses and numerous calamities to which we are reduced.

Now Sir if this is founded in truth, I apprehend you will readily embrace every opportunity to eradicate that train of absurd and false ideas and oppinions which so generally prevails with respect to us, and that your Sentiments are concurrent with mine, which are that one universal Father hath given being to us all, and that he hath not only made us all of one flesh, but that he hath also without partiality afforded us all the Same Sensations, and endued us all with the same faculties, and that however variable we may be in Society or religion, however diversifyed in Situation or colour, we are all of the Same Family, and Stand in the Same relation to him.

Sir, if these are Sentiments of which you are fully persuaded, I hope you cannot but acknowledge, that it is the indispensible duty of those who maintain for themselves the rights of human nature, and who profess the obligations of Christianity, to extend their power and influence to the relief of every part of the human race, from whatever burthen or oppression they may unjustly labour under, and this I apprehend a full conviction of the truth and obligation of these principles should lead all to.

Sir, I have long been convinced, that if your love for your Selves, and for those inesteemable laws which preserve to you the rights of human nature, was founded on Sincerity, you could not but be Solicitous, that every Individual of whatsoever rank or distinction, might with you equally enjoy the blessings thereof, neither could you rest Satisfyed, short of the most active diffusion of your exertions, in order to their promotion from any State of degradation, to which the unjustifyable cruelty and barbarism of men may have reduced them.

Sir I freely and Chearfully acknowledge, that I am of the African race, and in that colour which is natural to them of the deepest dye,* and it is under a Sense of the most profound gratitude to the Supreme Ruler of the universe, that I now confess to you, that I am not under that State of tyrannical thraldom, and inhuman captivity, to which too many of my brethren are doomed; but that I have abundantly tasted of the fruition of those blessings which proceed from that free and unequalled liberty with which you are favoured and which I hope you will willingly allow you have received from the immediate hand of that Being, from whom proceedeth every good and perfect gift.

Sir, Suffer me to recall to your mind that time in which the Arms and tyranny of the British Crown were exerted with every powerful effort in order to reduce you to a State of Servitude, look back I intreat you on the variety of dangers to which you were exposed, reflect on that time in which every human aid appeared unavailable, and in which even hope and fortitude wore the aspect of inability to the Conflict, and you cannot but be led to a Serious and grateful Sense of your miraculous and providential preservation; you cannot but acknowledge, that the present freedom and tranquility which you enjoy you have mercifully received, and that it is the peculiar blessing of Heaven.

This Sir, was a time in which you clearly saw into the injustice of a State of Slavery, and in which you had just apprehensions of the horrors of its condition, it was now Sir, that your abhorrence thereof was so excited, that you publickly held forth this true and invaluable doctrine, which is worthy to be recorded and remember’d in all Succeeding ages. “We hold these truths to be Self evident, that all men are created equal, and that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happyness.”

Here Sir, was a time in which your tender feelings for your selves had engaged you thus to declare, you were then impressed with proper ideas of the great valuation of liberty, and the free possession of those blessings to which you were entitled by nature; but Sir how pitiable is it to reflect, that altho you were so fully convinced of the benevolence of the Father of mankind, and of his equal and impartial distribution of those rights and privileges which he had conferred upon them, that you should at the Same time counteract his mercies, in detaining by fraud and violence so numerous a part of my brethren under groaning captivity and cruel oppression, that you should at the Same time be found guilty of that most criminal act, which you professedly detested in others, with respect to yourselves.

Sir, I suppose that your knowledge of the situation of my brethren is too extensive to need a recital here; neither shall I presume to prescribe methods by which they may be relieved; otherwise than by recommending to you and all others, to wean yourselves from these narrow prejudices which you have imbibed with respect to them, and as Job proposed to his friends “Put your Souls in their Souls stead,” thus shall your hearts be enlarged with kindness and benevolence toward them, and thus shall you need neither the direction of myself or others in what manner to proceed herein.

And now, Sir, altho my Sympathy and affection for my brethren hath caused my enlargement thus far, I ardently hope that your candour and generosity will plead with you in my behalf, when I make known to you, that it was not originally my design; but that having taken up my pen in order to direct to you as a present, a copy of an Almanack which I have calculated for the Succeeding year, I was unexpectedly and unavoidably led thereto.

This calculation, Sir, is the production of my arduous Study in this my advanced Stage of life; for having long had unbounded desires to become acquainted with the Secrets of nature, I have had to gratify my curiosity herein thro my own assiduous application to Astronomical Study, in which I need not to recount to you the many difficulties and disadvantages which I have had to encounter.

And altho I had almost declined to make my calculation for the ensuing year, in consequence of that time which I had allotted therefor being taking up at the Federal Territory by the request of Mr. Andrew Ellicott, yet finding myself under Several engagements to printers of this state to whom I had communicated my design, on my return to my place of residence, I industriously apply’d myself thereto, which I hope I have accomplished with correctness and accuracy, a copy of which I have taken the liberty to direct to you, and which I humbly request you will favourably receive, and altho you may have the opportunity of perusing it after its publication, yet I chose to send it to you in manuscript previous thereto, that thereby you might not only have an earlier inspection, but that you might also view it in my own hand writing.—And now Sir, I shall conclude and Subscribe my Self with the most profound respect your most Obedient humble Servant,

Benjamin Banneker

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1 hour ago, Belly Bob said:

 

So she was happy to choose a less qualified applicant for the sake of greater diversity. 

That seems like a mistake to me. What's your take?

 

I believe this was part of the issue with quotas for entrance at Michigan.

It may sound like a noble endeavor to let certain groups in with lower GPAs and SATs that are 200 points lower than average, but often those kids are set up for failure.

 

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16 hours ago, thc6795 said:

Again man it's ok to be White. I really don't think Gunny (a black man) needs your help or for you to co-sign his views on racism.

Being a minority I find  it insulting when someone who is not a minority feels the need to put down their own race. To prove how "woke" they are.

Just my .02. Not looking for a fight WC. I don't agree with shit you say but I know you're a good seed.

I know it's ok to be white and I wasn't putting white people down.  Those that feel that I am doing that are the ones who my post was intended and it wasn't to put down but to initiate an uncomfortable conversation. I also wasn't posting to help DD, my brother does not need my help in this topic nor does he need any of what I posted because it wasn't for him but for those white people who have a problem even discussing it.  I'll repeat this because it keeps getting missed- We are all the same, none better than any other and none less perfect than any other in spirit.  It's when we identify with our body and the color of our skin to the exclusion of spirit is when we see differences and from that all types of unhelpful ideas about other people turn into negative action.  

Thanks for the good seed remark.  

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3 hours ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

Where is the Exalted Cyclops of the 813 Klavern?

Any more proclamations?

I think not, entirely a very rich thread.

Thanks Gentlemen,

BGW

And it's not directed at any specific person on my behalf.  It's based off what I've learned.  I can run out of pages of white males I respect for a variety of reasons.  Hard to dialogue with people who misinterpret actual facts.   My success is because of Wealthy White Males whom I respect the hell out of.  Yet they have had some of the deepest conversations with me on Race.  Like me explaining to one over dinner how tipping is uniquely American and it's roots are based off racism with the emancipation of blacks moving North and taking Service jobs.  

I know all the greatness of TJ .  Because that's all I was taught.  Why wasn't Sally Hemmings in the Story about him. She bore him 6 kids. 

Matter of fact the Surnames Lincoln. Washington and Jefferson are most associated with Black People. Hmmmm. 

Why wasn't Banneker in those American History classes?  Because he would have inspired a bunch of kids in what You find in DD in this day and time.   

Can't wait to get back to Jawjaa and pay You back for your hospitality.  Funny thing is all the guys I've met from these H.S. forums are white dudes except 1. 😎 Everyone very successful. Real respect Real even when Real disagrees.

  

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4 hours ago, DevilDog said:

Its's hard to convince people that believe Jesus is White,  That created a Pseudo Science Egyptology whose sole purpose was to prove that magical White People lived in 100 Degree weather with their skin exposed.  No matter they left pictures that need no damn explanation.  That  a Fat man in Red Boots represents Yeshua's Birthday and somehow Rabbits and Baskets equal his resurrection.  Anyone that promulgates that IMHO can in no way understand much about anything unless it's glorification of themselves.  I will say it again you cannot have a discussion on Racism with the Person(s) that have failed with it for 400 years.  I am sorry but asking  White Males to understand racism is like asking a serial rapists to understand the emotional and physical toll on females.  My mother could not eat in a Fucking Restaurant in most places in the 1960s in her 20's.   Yet there should be no repercussions with dealing with that nonsense daily.  My Grandmother feared white people like they were NAZI's.  She would call a teenager Sir and Ma'am.  Now try to get them to understand why.  She lived under Terrorism.  

You can give them Marijuana stats and they will claim it's because blacks are caught with it more.   That's why when I respond I do with as much force as I can.  I come in understanding whom I am talking to is adverse to anything not shrouded in a bunch of B.S. and whataboutism.  Banneker has his place but Turner gets more reaction.   MLK was hated by 65% of white America and described as a trouble maker and only Khrushcev was hated more.  He would have been the judged in 1865 just as he was in 1965.  That Mindset is troubling. 

There is never a problem on the Plantation till the Slave Revolts.  i am sure this statement alone will escape most of their comprehension. Though it describes a multitude of problems.  But only the slave could see them.  Remember they thought the slave was happy.  Wrote Books and Movies depicting that with Shirley Temple representing some of that nonsense as well. 

 

now you're knocking my gal, Shirley Temple.  you've crossed the line.

not directed at you at all (I really like your posts and learned a lot; and more important, you have me thinking a lot more, for what that's worth--not too much), but we all get it.  it was the worst atrocity.  I've said that, now, 3 or 4 times.  when it ended, life didn't become a bed of roses.  it still isn't.  we all know that.

my issue is how limited and single-minded your scope is.  you look at it in a vacuum, and you're too smart for that, but I'm thinking that you lay it on so heavy because you think that we can't hear Jimi.  you're 180 degrees from where King and Banneker were.  remember, King wanted to get beyond race.  but now, content of character is nothing compared to the color of one's skin.  skin color is everything.  you offer no solutions, though, only further exhibits of the already-stipulated-to dead body.  you turn race from an important subject into the only subject that matters.  it's racial obsession.  people cannot live that way, as some on this thread have pointed out, leaving aside the whites aren't allowed to speak on many of these topics in many places at many times; and so, we are far from any satisfactory resolution involving ALL interested parties.  and you're on record saying that that's how it ought to be.

so, what is wanted; what is the solution?  my best guess is that (1) whites have to leave, (2) whites have be subservient, (3) whites have to pay reparations (and payments won't end because whites are incorrigible and will keep doing new things necessitating never-ending reparations, (4) endless entitlements, and/or (and here's the nuclear option, which has been meandering around for a while) (5) every aspect of Western/white hegemony must go. 

In other words, this unfair system is the result of a structure set up by white hegemony.  and thus, every thing in that structure is poisoned or tainted with racism, whether explicit or implicit.  so, the only way to be sure, is to nuke the whole system--nuke the greatest Country ever.  I can't sign up for that, and that's my entire issue with your posts.

essentially, what you post is found in Whiteness Studies:  "A growing field of scholarship whose aim is to reveal the invisible structures that produce white supremacy and privilege [in 2020 in the free and heavily-immigrated-to and oft-imitated Western countries].  Critical Whiteness Studies presumes a certain condition of racism that is connected to white supremacy."  Oxford University  Encyl., written by Syracuse Professor Applebaum (emphasis added).

"Presumes."  and according to some here, I don't need to take the implicit-bias exam to test that "presumption," because I'm already guilty.  you've said I'm guilty and I can't understand.  what's left then? that's why King wanted to get beyond race--he saw the conundrum that you are advocating, along with other radicals.

But defining me and an entire group of people in 2020 in one of the greatest and freest Countries today based solely on race and racial characteristics is a pretty good show of racism, wouldn't you think?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Testadura said:

now you're knocking my gal, Shirley Temple.  you've crossed the line.

not directed at you at all (I really like your posts and learned a lot; and more important, you have me thinking a lot more, for what that's worth--not too much), but we all get it.  it was the worst atrocity.  I've said that, now, 3 or 4 times.  when it ended, life didn't become a bed of roses.  it still isn't.  we all know that.

my issue is how limited and single-minded your scope is.  you look at it in a vacuum, and you're too smart for that, but I'm thinking that you lay it on so heavy because you think that we can't hear Jimi.  you're 180 degrees from where King and Banneker were.  remember, King wanted to get beyond race.  but now, content of character is nothing compared to the color of one's skin.  skin color is everything.  you offer no solutions, though, only further exhibits of the already-stipulated-to dead body.  you turn race from an important subject into the only subject that matters.  it's racial obsession.  people cannot live that way, as some on this thread have pointed out, leaving aside the whites aren't allowed to speak on many of these topics in many places at many times; and so, we are far from any satisfactory resolution involving ALL interested parties.  and you're on record saying that that's how it ought to be.

so, what is wanted; what is the solution?  my best guess is that (1) whites have to leave, (2) whites have be subservient, (3) whites have to pay reparations (and payments won't end because whites are incorrigible and will keep doing new things necessitating never-ending reparations, (4) endless entitlements, and/or (and here's the nuclear option, which has been meandering around for a while) (5) every aspect of Western/white hegemony must go. 

In other words, this unfair system is the result of a structure set up by white hegemony.  and thus, every thing in that structure is poisoned or tainted with racism, whether explicit or implicit.  so, the only way to be sure, is to nuke the whole system--nuke the greatest Country ever.  I can't sign up for that, and that's my entire issue with your posts.

essentially, what you post is found in Whiteness Studies:  "A growing field of scholarship whose aim is to reveal the invisible structures that produce white supremacy and privilege [in 2020 in the free and heavily-immigrated-to and oft-imitated Western countries].  Critical Whiteness Studies presumes a certain condition of racism that is connected to white supremacy."  Oxford University  Encyl., written by Syracuse Professor Applebaum (emphasis added).

"Presumes."  and according to some here, I don't need to take the implicit-bias exam to test that "presumption," because I'm already guilty.  you've said I'm guilty and I can't understand.  what's left then? that's why King wanted to get beyond race--he saw the conundrum that you are advocating, along with other radicals.

But defining me and an entire group of people in 2020 in one of the greatest and freest Countries today based solely on race and racial characteristics is a pretty good show of racism, wouldn't you think?

 

 

Thank you for your eloquent response.  I have various solutions that I would recommend and I don't think or put all whites in a vacuum.  I'm intelligent enough to project upon others how it feels to put me in a vacuum. Example when a black man commits an atrocity it's indicative of the culture as a whole.  I will prove this with contents from any article when said atrocity is in the news. Every 90 days we get a rampage shooting Schools, theaters etc.  It's always a lone 🐺.  Brotha I don't define You are blame You for anything.  Get over that You are not a SYSTEM. Stop elevating Yourself.  You are not redistricting, passing unjust sentencing or hiring practices or handing out predatory loans.  As a matter of fact You and @World Citizen are whom I need to converse with and work with to make this Nation be a better nation

. I respect a Man that pushes back on me yet takes time to learn about me and understand Brown eyes sometime sees different than Blue eyes even when looking at the same picture.  Aka T.Js portrait.  I'm on my cell phone right now.  Give me time I will hit You with some things.  And again thanks and I am not talking or blaming You or all White Males for the failures of Many.  I'm just as harsh on Black people😎 when they accept failure.  I dont apologize for throwing your Gal Shirley Temple under the Bus.. Matter of fact conversations like this had one white male here hit me up with an IM and taught me some things about a group of whites in NY that was mind blowing.  Disagreement usually will teach us all.  It's how you respect the disagreement.  Now ask yourself who broad brushes most people.  It's not me.  

Again I can write 8 pages of White Males I respect.  I respect John Brown over any so called founding Father.

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1 hour ago, DevilDog said:

And it's not directed at any specific person on my behalf.  It's based off what I've learned.  I can run out of pages of white males I respect for a variety of reasons.  Hard to dialogue with people who misinterpret actual facts.   My success is because of Wealthy White Males whom I respect the hell out of.  Yet they have had some of the deepest conversations with me on Race.  Like me explaining to one over dinner how tipping is uniquely American and it's roots are based off racism with the emancipation of blacks moving North and taking Service jobs.  

I know all the greatness of TJ .  Because that's all I was taught.  Why wasn't Sally Hemmings in the Story about him. She bore him 6 kids. 

Matter of fact the Surnames Lincoln. Washington and Jefferson are most associated with Black People. Hmmmm. 

Why wasn't Banneker in those American History classes?  Because he would have inspired a bunch of kids in what You find in DD in this day and time.   

Can't wait to get back to Jawjaa and pay You back for your hospitality.  Funny thing is all the guys I've met from these H.S. forums are white dudes except 1. 😎 Everyone very successful. Real respect Real even when Real disagrees.

  

I know it's NOT directed at any one individual.. not your style unless somebody provokes it repeatedly....

Great thing about Atlanta is the naming of streets, schools, etc., after the Greats... never knew that about tipping, when we meet again I have a story about that you would find interesting.

The Surnames, well that booty was fire! I jest of course, but power, wealth absolutely corrupts those not taking a long view of things, even a pretty intelligent group of men.  But men are dogs and are dirty when it comes to that arena... it's why I have a thing with "dirty old man" term... hell, we were born dirty, that's all we think of.

More information is a good thing, the more I learn, the more I understand that I know nothing.

Cya soon Bro,

BGW

p.s. GotDammit DD, I left out a key word... no wonder you were laughing...hell I said it with a straight face!!! LOLOLOL 

@DevilDog

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1 minute ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

I know it's directed at any one individual.. not your style unless somebody provokes it repeatedly....

Great thing about Atlanta is the naming of streets, schools, etc., after the Greats... never knew that about tipping, when we meet again I have a story about that you would find interesting.

The Surnames, well that booty was fire! I jest of course, but power, wealth absolutely corrupts those not taking a long view of things, even a pretty intelligent group of men.  But men are dogs and are dirty when it comes to that arena... it's why I have a thing with "dirty old man" term... hell, we were born dirty, that's all we think of.

More information is a good thing, the more I learn, the more I understand that I know nothing.

Cya soon Bro,

BGW

No doubt Bro.  Looking forward to seeing you again. And thanks again for your hospitality.  Jawjaa on my mind.  I think tipping history will be eye opening.  Matter of fact You know how GA was for me.  Matter of fact I can't recall being treated better any where, wined and dined like never before than I was in Georgia all by successful White Males.   One great business week.  Ending with let's make this money and one telling me the system is rigged to benefit them.  The one that said that is anti Trump.  Has an Asian wife a mixed race son with a black Girfriend. 

  

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47 minutes ago, Testadura said:

now you're knocking my gal, Shirley Temple.  you've crossed the line.

not directed at you at all (I really like your posts and learned a lot; and more important, you have me thinking a lot more, for what that's worth--not too much), but we all get it.  it was the worst atrocity.  I've said that, now, 3 or 4 times.  when it ended, life didn't become a bed of roses.  it still isn't.  we all know that.

my issue is how limited and single-minded your scope is.  you look at it in a vacuum, and you're too smart for that, but I'm thinking that you lay it on so heavy because you think that we can't hear Jimi.  you're 180 degrees from where King and Banneker were.  remember, King wanted to get beyond race.  but now, content of character is nothing compared to the color of one's skin.  skin color is everything.  you offer no solutions, though, only further exhibits of the already-stipulated-to dead body.  you turn race from an important subject into the only subject that matters.  it's racial obsession.  people cannot live that way, as some on this thread have pointed out, leaving aside the whites aren't allowed to speak on many of these topics in many places at many times; and so, we are far from any satisfactory resolution involving ALL interested parties.  and you're on record saying that that's how it ought to be.

so, what is wanted; what is the solution?  my best guess is that (1) whites have to leave, (2) whites have be subservient, (3) whites have to pay reparations (and payments won't end because whites are incorrigible and will keep doing new things necessitating never-ending reparations, (4) endless entitlements, and/or (and here's the nuclear option, which has been meandering around for a while) (5) every aspect of Western/white hegemony must go. 

In other words, this unfair system is the result of a structure set up by white hegemony.  and thus, every thing in that structure is poisoned or tainted with racism, whether explicit or implicit.  so, the only way to be sure, is to nuke the whole system--nuke the greatest Country ever.  I can't sign up for that, and that's my entire issue with your posts.

essentially, what you post is found in Whiteness Studies:  "A growing field of scholarship whose aim is to reveal the invisible structures that produce white supremacy and privilege [in 2020 in the free and heavily-immigrated-to and oft-imitated Western countries].  Critical Whiteness Studies presumes a certain condition of racism that is connected to white supremacy."  Oxford University  Encyl., written by Syracuse Professor Applebaum (emphasis added).

"Presumes."  and according to some here, I don't need to take the implicit-bias exam to test that "presumption," because I'm already guilty.  you've said I'm guilty and I can't understand.  what's left then? that's why King wanted to get beyond race--he saw the conundrum that you are advocating, along with other radicals.

But defining me and an entire group of people in 2020 in one of the greatest and freest Countries today based solely on race and racial characteristics is a pretty good show of racism, wouldn't you think?

 

 

 

If DD's purpose is to prove that some white people have been oppressive to other people's in this world, then great.  I'm wondering who on this board was arguing the opposite.

He goes way over the top though to the point where he appears to want to portray all white folks as horrible racists.

You see little to nothing of the following:

  1. Acknowledgement of the fact that most white people had nothing to do with the slave trade or owning slaves or the creation of institutional racism.
  2. Acknowledgement that many whites actively struggled against racism and slavery and/or fought against it and died as a result.
  3. Acknowledgement that people of all colors and creeds have engaged in horrible conduct against their fellow man, especially when they had an advantage over them.

His posts are all acts by white men who are all bad, all the time.

He recently talked about a horrible massacre that occurred in Tulsa nearly a century ago.  Fucking awful. And I hope the bastards who did it are currently rotting in agony in the lowest depths of hell. But that is not the America of today (not even close) and we don't have a time machine to go back and undo slavery and horrific events like Tulsa. 

Is everything better? Is everyone treated equally all the time? No. But things have improved immensely and are still improving in lieu of a magic wand.

So, DD, what IS the point?

 

 

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11 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

Thank you for your eloquent response.  I have various solutions that I would recommend and I don't think or put a whites in a vaccum.  I'm intelligent enough to project upon others how it feels to put me in a vacuum. Example when a black man connotes an atrocity it's indicative of the culture as a whole.  I will prove this with contents from any article when said atrocity is in the news. Every 90 days we get a rampage shooting Schools, theaters etc.  It's always a lone 🐺.  Britha I don't define You are blame You for anything.  Get over that You are not a SYSTEM. Stop elevating Yourself.  You are not redistricting, passing unjust sentencing or hiring practices or handing out predatory loans.  As a matter of fact You and @World Citizen is whom I need to converse with and work with to make this Nation be a better nation

. I respect a Man that pushes back on me yet takes time to learn about me and understand Brown eyes sometime sees different than Blue eyes even when looking at the same picture.  Aka T.Js portrait.  I'm on my cell phone right now.  Give me time I will hit You with some things.  And again thanks and I am not talking or blaming You or all White Males for the failures of Many.  I'm just as harsh on Black people😎 when they accept failure.  I dont apologize for throwing your Gal Shirley Temple under the Bus.. Matter of fact conversations like this had one white male here hit me up with an IM and taught me some things about a group of whites in NY that was mind blowing.  Disagreement usually will teach us all.  It's how you respect the disagreement.  Now ask yourself who broad brushes most people.  It's not me.  

Again I can write 8 pages of White Males I respect.  I respect John Brown over any so called founding Father.

I'm running out and will read later.

I love the passion and truth.  I sense honesty, and no malice or cruelty. 

I will just say now that, because my wife was born and raised in Teaneck and because her Dad was a Mayor of that town, I got to meet Civil Rights heroes and black women from Tx who are in their '80s, among many others.  her Senior Honors Thesis was the Black Experience in Vietnam--she interviews some 30-50 black vets.  As a HS student, she gave speeches on MLK Day at Englewood Churches.  Her Dad (Iwo Marine, who also was at the March on Washington--a Marine Major once said to me that he probably was the only WW2 Marine there) was one of the engineers of Teaneck's voluntary busing to equalize the schools.  1st in the nation to do so. 

More to say later.

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46 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

No doubt Bro.  Looking forward to seeing you again. And thanks again for your hospitality.  Jawjaa on my mind.  I think tipping history will be eye opening.  Matter of fact You know how GA was for me.  Matter of fact I can't recall being treated better any where, wined and dined like never before than I was in Georgia all by successful White Males.   One great business week.  Ending with let's make this money and one telling me the system is rigged to benefit them.  The one that said that is anti Trump.  Has an Asian wife a mixed race son with a black Girfriend. 

  

The only way I’d push a woman out of bed is to land on top. 
 

Georgia is good and that’s saying a lot because I love Texas, always will. 
 

Looking forward to it Bro. 
 

BGW

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On 2/16/2020 at 12:31 PM, Horsefly said:

Of course it is a bad hiring practice, but what you are conveniently leaving out are the examples of white males that have been elevated to positions that weren’t qualified, they were simply beneficiaries of a good boy club.  Biases exist and those that look like those in position of power have a tendency to benefit the most.  Qualified or not.  

I wasn't conveniently leaving out those examples but presupposing them, which is why I asked the following:

On 2/16/2020 at 12:10 PM, Belly Bob said:

But why is it okay to commit an injustice to this person today in order to correct for an injustice done to that person yesterday?

I think we should do what we can to organize society in such a way that people who are roughly equal in talent and who make roughly equal effort have roughly equal chances of obtaining their goals, regardless of race, sex, sexual orientation, etc. And I think we can do better in many areas.

I don't think it's wise or just in general to correct for the past injustice of hiring the white guy because he was white by hiring the black guy because he's black. And often that, in fact, is the suggested policy -- namely, choosing the less qualified applicant for the sake of increasing diversity. 

Since you also think that's a bad hiring policy, it sounds like we agree. 

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On 2/16/2020 at 2:09 PM, concha said:

 

I believe this was part of the issue with quotas for entrance at Michigan.

It may sound like a noble endeavor to let certain groups in with lower GPAs and SATs that are 200 points lower than average, but often those kids are set up for failure.

 

I remember reading about this a few years ago. If I remember correctly, the black students who had been admitted with lower test scores performed at or near the bottom of their class in their first year of law school at Michigan; and the gap between them and their peers actually widened in subsequent years.

These sorts of policies may be appropriate in all sorts of cases, including undergraduate admissions policies, where (among other reasons) there's room to remedy deficiencies, but maybe not appropriate for law school.

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On 2/16/2020 at 12:25 PM, Horsefly said:

How did they say you correct power imbalances,  and how is that going to factor against those decision makers that are in the position to correct this imbalance who overwhelmingly are white males?  

They didn't say how. The message was that it's a mistake to think that we're doing enough for diversity if we're treating everyone equally. 

There is only so much you can do in an hour, I guess. 

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15 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

I remember reading about this a few years ago. If I remember correctly, the black students who had been admitted with lower test scores performed at or near the bottom of their class in their first year of law school at Michigan; and the gap between them and their peers actually widened in subsequent years.

These sorts of policies may be appropriate in all sorts of cases, including undergraduate admissions policies, where (among other reasons) there's room to remedy deficiencies, but maybe not appropriate for law school.

This article has lots of information on the consequences of quotas/relaxed standards.

https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-sad-irony-of-affirmative-action

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2 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

They didn't say how. The message was that it's a mistake to think that we're doing enough for diversity if we're treating everyone equally. 

There is only so much you can do in an hour, I guess. 

my view is I think it’s all smoke and mirrors, the talk of equity and balancing things out has been going on for years and yet there is still underrepresentation (even with AA) 

Bottomline, you can’t expect those with adv to share those adv by freely giving them up.  

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1 hour ago, Horsefly said:

my view is I think it’s all smoke and mirrors, the talk of equity and balancing things out has been going on for years and yet there is still underrepresentation (even with AA) 

Bottomline, you can’t expect those with adv to share those adv by freely giving them up.  

Adv? Forgive me....don’t follow. 
 

BGW

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