Dang the NBA nearly robbed the warriors again.

[HooverOutlaw]

I guess there trying to give it to LeBron already. 

[Nolebull813]

I think the LeBron conspiracy theories are similar to the Trump/Russia garbage. 

James is the best player on the planet and instantly makes his team a finals contender no matter how garbage or good they are. 

Top 5 all time. He doesn't need some pencil neck behind the scenes committing corruption on his behalf 

[ECHS05]

13 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

I think the LeBron conspiracy theories are similar to the Trump/Russia garbage. 

James is the best player on the planet and instantly makes his team a finals contender no matter how garbage or good they are. 

Top 5 all time. He doesn't need some pencil neck behind the scenes committing corruption on his behalf 

Hes #1 All-Time.

Theres never been a single player in history that can take a team from worst to 1st just by being on the team. 

Hes the best. Ever. 

[HooverOutlaw]

No matter what you 2 say. He still has a losing record in the finals. No player in any sport has ever received more bias when it comes to calls and protection than he has. Last year's final there were going to give it to the Cavs no matter what. Suspending Green was bs.  He is not the best ever not ever the best of the last 15 years Kobe is. Titles is what matters.  

[HooverOutlaw]

By the way list the years he took any team from worst to first.

[hardhit1]

7 minutes ago, HooverOutlaw said:

By the way list the years he took any team from worst to first.

 

2 hours ago, HooverOutlaw said:

I guess there trying to give it to LeBron already. 

You are just a Lebron hater

well documented on this board

give yourself 5 stars for that ?

[steeler01]

34 minutes ago, HooverOutlaw said:

No matter what you 2 say. He still has a losing record in the finals. No player in any sport has ever received more bias when it comes to calls and protection than he has. Last year's final there were going to give it to the Cavs no matter what. Suspending Green was bs.  He is not the best ever not ever the best of the last 15 years Kobe is. Titles is what matters.  

Jordan did.  

Kobe isn't anywhere near LeBron 

[ThunderRam]

On 5/14/2017 at 6:12 PM, HooverOutlaw said:

No matter what you 2 say. He still has a losing record in the finals.

 

Comments like this show complete lack of understanding.

It makes zero sense why losing in the Finals seems to be a negative while losing in an earlier playoff round doesn't.

People love to tout Jordan's 6-0 record in the Finals or Joe Montana's 4-0 record in Super Bowls as if losing in an earlier round somehow doesn't matter. Why don't those count too? Or better yet, why do some seem to foolishly believe that reaching the Finals/Super Bowl and losing is somehow a worse accomplishment than losing in conference title game or 1st or 2nd round?? Jordan and Montana did that more than a few times.

Furthermore, an argument can easily be made that a player like LeBron (who was 22 yo at the time) was able to carry a completely inferior team like the 2006-2007 Cavs (2nd leading scorer was Larry Hughes at 14.9 ppg) to the Finals whereas a player like Jordan lost in the 1st or 2nd round with comparable talent.

Go back and look at Jordan's first 6 seasons in the league when he didn't yet have the right mix of talent around him. He didn't reach his 1st Finals until year 7. And of the 6 titles the Bulls won during his tenure, only one of them came against a team that had at least a single title under their belt. And that was against the 1990-1991 Lakers who were on their last legs with an aging Magic and James Worthy. Conversely, LeBron twice faced a "still in their prime" Spurs squad whose core group had won multiple titles previously.

When Jordan temporarily retired in 1993, the Bulls still managed to win 55 games and reach the Conference Semi's without him. When LeBron left the Cavs in 2010, they went from a 61 win team to a 19 win team despite much of the core of the team returning from the previous season.

Lastly, while I don't expect it to happen, if LeBron somehow manages to win 6 titles before his career is over and finish with say a 6-4 or 6-5 record in the Finals -- that trumps 6-0. Why?? Because that'd be 4 or 5 more Finals appearances when MJ's Bulls were busy losing in an earlier round by comparison. Keep in mind that I don't subscribe to only counting title game appearances and discounting everything else .... but for those that do, the above is true.

Same logic applies to Tom Brady's 4-3 record (edit: 5-2) in Super Bowls versus Montana's 4-0. All it means is that Brady's team reached the SB 3 more times than Montana's 49ers who were busy losing to the Giants or Cowboys in an earlier round.

[Ararar]

I don't think there is any doubt that Lebron is an amazing player.I just wonder why guys like Jordan ,Pat Riley and Stephan Jackson say they would take Kobe over Lebron??

[World Citizen]

12 hours ago, Ararar said:

I don't think there is any doubt that Lebron is an amazing player.I just wonder why guys like Jordan ,Pat Riley and Stephan Jackson say they would take Kobe over Lebron??

Because he is the "Black Mamba".  How cool of a name is that?  LeBron needs a cool name to take him to the top of the list.  

Jordan didn't become dominant until he developed that knockdown midrange jumper and Pippen didn't hurt either.  

LeBron, for all his greatness needs to develop a knockdown jumper like Jordan did.  But, last year LeBron was a one-man wrecking crew.  I've never seen anybody do that before.  For his position(s) he is at least top 1-2 all time.  I think as defense goes, Jordan all day.  He can defend LeBron better than LeBron can defend Jordan imo.

[HooverOutlaw]

It's more than stats do you want Wilt or Bill Russell' s ring collection.  

Last year was a gift from the NBA imo.

LeBron's Other  rings were on a made up all star team. Jordan never loses to the Mavs.

[steeler01]

1 hour ago, HooverOutlaw said:

It's more than stats do you want Wilt or Bill Russell' s ring collection.  

Last year was a gift from the NBA imo.

LeBron's Other  rings were on a made up all star team. Jordan never loses to the Mavs.

Without Pippen, Jordan doesn't get out of the first round

[Bormio]

17 hours ago, ThunderRam said:

 

Comments like this show complete lack of understanding.

It makes zero sense why losing in the Finals seems to be a negative while losing in an earlier playoff round doesn't.

People love to tout Jordan's 6-0 record in the Finals or Joe Montana's 4-0 record in Super Bowls as if losing in an earlier round somehow doesn't matter. Why don't those count too? Or better yet, why do some seem to foolishly believe that reaching the Finals/Super Bowl and losing is somehow a worse accomplishment than losing in conference title game or 1st or 2nd round?? Jordan and Montana did that more than a few times.

Furthermore, an argument can easily be made that a player like LeBron (who was 22 yo at the time) was able to carry a completely inferior team like the 2006-2007 Cavs (2nd leading scorer was Larry Hughes at 14.9 ppg) to the Finals whereas a player like Jordan lost in the 1st or 2nd round with comparable talent.

Go back and look at Jordan's first 6 seasons in the league when he didn't yet have the right mix of talent around him. He didn't reach his 1st Finals until year 7. And of the 6 titles the Bulls won during his tenure, only one of them came against a team that had at least a single title under their belt. And that was against the 1990-1991 Lakers who were on their last legs with an aging Magic and James Worthy. Conversely, LeBron twice faced a "still in their prime" Spurs squad whose core group had won multiple titles previously.

When Jordan temporarily retired in 1993, the Bulls still managed to win 55 games and reach the Conference Semi's without him. When LeBron left the Cavs in 2010, they went from a 61 win team to a 19 win team despite much of the core of the team returning from the previous season.

Lastly, while I don't expect it to happen, if LeBron somehow manages to win 6 titles before his career is over and finish with say a 6-4 or 6-5 record in the Finals -- that trumps 6-0. Why?? Because that'd be 4 or 5 more Finals appearances when MJ's Bulls were busy losing in an earlier round by comparison. Keep in mind that I don't subscribe to only counting title game appearances and discounting everything else .... but for those that do, the above is true.

Same logic applies to Tom Brady's 4-3 record in Super Bowls versus Montana's 4-0. All it means is that Brady's team reached the SB 3 more times than Montana's 49ers who were busy losing to the Giants or Cowboys in an earlier round.

Brady is 5-2 in SBs - did you turn off SB51 early?

[NYHSFAN33]

2 hours ago, HooverOutlaw said:

It's more than stats do you want Wilt or Bill Russell' s ring collection.  

Last year was a gift from the NBA imo.

LeBron's Other  rings were on a made up all star team. Jordan never loses to the Mavs.

Pippen is better and more versatile than anyone LeBron has ever played with.  Jordan never won a ring without Pippen, but Pippen made it deep in the playoffs without Jordan.  Jordan couldn't get past the Celtics or Pistons without Pippen firing on all cylinders by his side.  Your opinion on this topic is well known from previous threads.  It is still a trash opinion.  

[HooverOutlaw]

Jordan stayed and won titles did not have leave to form a dream team unlike LeBron. Bird stayed.  Magic stayed etc.

[steeler01]

8 minutes ago, HooverOutlaw said:

Jordan stayed and won titles did not have leave to form a dream team unlike LeBron. Bird stayed.  Magic stayed etc.

The heat weren't a dream  team. Bosh and Wade after LeBron left missed the playoffs with a 37-45 record.  When Jordan left the Bulls won 55 games and took the Knicks to game 7.  Jordan had a much better cast in Chicago than LeBron has ever had anywhere

[ThunderRam]

3 hours ago, Bormio said:

Brady is 5-2 in SBs - did you turn off SB51 early?

 

UGH. Yeah. I know. Just an honest mistake. I was going through it in my head thinking how easily that he could/should have been 3-4 had the Seahawks and Falcons both had brains and not gifted the last 2 to the Patriots --- and then for some reason I was stuck thinking he had only been a part of 4 titles. I obviously didn't want to believe the last one happened.

I don't make many mental errors when it comes to citing stats because I typically research and triple-check myself --- but you certainly caught me this time.

That's a pretty egregious mistake too. Something I usually hammer others for

[World Citizen]

2 hours ago, ThunderRam said:

 

UGH. Yeah. I know. Just an honest mistake. I was going through it in my head thinking how easily that he could/should have been 3-4 had the Seahawks and Falcons both had brains and not gifted the last 2 to the Patriots --- and then for some reason I was stuck thinking he had only been a part of 4 titles. I obviously didn't want to believe the last one happened.

I don't make many mental errors when it comes to citing stats because I typically research and triple-check myself --- but you certainly caught me this time.

That's a pretty egregious mistake too. Something I usually hammer others for

Consider yourself hammered.  Now drive safe. ?

[World Citizen]

4 hours ago, steeler01 said:

The heat weren't a dream  team. Bosh and Wade after LeBron left missed the playoffs with a 37-45 record.  When Jordan left the Bulls won 55 games and took the Knicks to game 7.  Jordan had a much better cast in Chicago than LeBron has ever had anywhere

They are all great but If there is a list of things you want in a player, LeBron checks off more than others imo but he needs to find that perimeter shot that both Kobe and Jordan developed and it may remove all doubt who is the GOAT.

[Pops]

3 hours ago, ThunderRam said:

That's a pretty egregious mistake too. Something I usually hammer others for

I can vouch for that

?

[Cossacks]

4 hours ago, ThunderRam said:

 

That's a pretty egregious mistake too. Something I usually hammer others for

Please Hammer...don't hurt em!!

 

 

[Columbiafan]

On 5/14/2017 at 8:30 PM, ECHS05 said:

Hes #1 All-Time.

Theres never been a single player in history that can take a team from worst to 1st just by being on the team. 

Hes the best. Ever. 

He didn't make the cavs champ first time around

 

This cav team has more then just LeBron 

[Columbiafan]

On 5/15/2017 at 2:27 AM, ThunderRam said:

 

Comments like this show complete lack of understanding.

It makes zero sense why losing in the Finals seems to be a negative while losing in an earlier playoff round doesn't.

People love to tout Jordan's 6-0 record in the Finals or Joe Montana's 4-0 record in Super Bowls as if losing in an earlier round somehow doesn't matter. Why don't those count too? Or better yet, why do some seem to foolishly believe that reaching the Finals/Super Bowl and losing is somehow a worse accomplishment than losing in conference title game or 1st or 2nd round?? Jordan and Montana did that more than a few times.

Furthermore, an argument can easily be made that a player like LeBron (who was 22 yo at the time) was able to carry a completely inferior team like the 2006-2007 Cavs (2nd leading scorer was Larry Hughes at 14.9 ppg) to the Finals whereas a player like Jordan lost in the 1st or 2nd round with comparable talent.

Go back and look at Jordan's first 6 seasons in the league when he didn't yet have the right mix of talent around him. He didn't reach his 1st Finals until year 7. And of the 6 titles the Bulls won during his tenure, only one of them came against a team that had at least a single title under their belt. And that was against the 1990-1991 Lakers who were on their last legs with an aging Magic and James Worthy. Conversely, LeBron twice faced a "still in their prime" Spurs squad whose core group had won multiple titles previously.

When Jordan temporarily retired in 1993, the Bulls still managed to win 55 games and reach the Conference Semi's without him. When LeBron left the Cavs in 2010, they went from a 61 win team to a 19 win team despite much of the core of the team returning from the previous season.

Lastly, while I don't expect it to happen, if LeBron somehow manages to win 6 titles before his career is over and finish with say a 6-4 or 6-5 record in the Finals -- that trumps 6-0. Why?? Because that'd be 4 or 5 more Finals appearances when MJ's Bulls were busy losing in an earlier round by comparison. Keep in mind that I don't subscribe to only counting title game appearances and discounting everything else .... but for those that do, the above is true.

Same logic applies to Tom Brady's 4-3 record (edit: 5-2) in Super Bowls versus Montana's 4-0. All it means is that Brady's team reached the SB 3 more times than Montana's 49ers who were busy losing to the Giants or Cowboys in an earlier round.

Montana didn't lose to cowboys in playoffs unless i really missed something 

 

It was redskins, Vikings, bears and giants

[Cossacks]

59 minutes ago, Columbiafan said:

Montana didn't lose to cowboys in playoffs unless i really missed something 

 

It was redskins, Vikings, bears and giants

Yep, he beat them in 81' (I was at the Stick) the next time they faced the Cowboys in 92' Young was the QB.

[World Citizen]

9 hours ago, Cossacks said:

Please Hammer...don't hurt em!!

 

 

Love it. Never enough hammer time.  Thanks.  It makes me want to out on my hammer pants and brake a hip.