Wisconsin holds its primary election in the middle of a pandemic

[15yds4gibberish]

15 hours ago, maxchoboian said:

Colorado has had the mail-in option for years. I find it easier than standing in line.

I used to travel a lot, so I started voting by mail over a decade ago, and like you, find it so much more convenient.  I like spreading out, taking my time to try to understand the propositions and candidates.  Sometimes, if I want to feel connected to what's happening at the polling place, I go and drop my ballot off on election day and collect my sticker.  It's insane that in many places around the country we discourage citizens from partaking in their civic duty by limiting polling places, making them stand in line for hours.  Yesterday in Wisconsin was a disgrace - Good article about the decade of WI politics leading us to yesterday here:

 

Republicans know that vote by mail is convenient and secure.  In Ohio, the GOP-led legislature did absolutely the right thing, extending the primary by six weeks of vote by mail.  Signed by a GOP governor (who has been doing a great job during throughout).  Instead of celebrating good governance, that action faces headwinds:

 

If a lot of Americans voting 'doesn't work out well for Republicans,'  maybe Republicans should be working harder to be more popular with more Americans.

😷😷😷

[RedZone]

Bernie packs it up.... 

[I AM IRONMAN]

1 hour ago, 15yds4gibberish said:

I used to travel a lot, so I started voting by mail over a decade ago, and like you, find it so much more convenient.  I like spreading out, taking my time to try to understand the propositions and candidates.  Sometimes, if I want to feel connected to what's happening at the polling place, I go and drop my ballot off on election day and collect my sticker.  It's insane that in many places around the country we discourage citizens from partaking in their civic duty by limiting polling places, making them stand in line for hours.  Yesterday in Wisconsin was a disgrace - Good article about the decade of WI politics leading us to yesterday here:

 

Republicans know that vote by mail is convenient and secure.  In Ohio, the GOP-led legislature did absolutely the right thing, extending the primary by six weeks of vote by mail.  Signed by a GOP governor (who has been doing a great job during throughout).  Instead of celebrating good governance, that action faces headwinds:

 

If a lot of Americans voting 'doesn't work out well for Republicans,'  maybe Republicans should be working harder to be more popular with more Americans.

😷😷😷

The Dems will do everything they can to rig a mail in election..I mean the best they have is Biden!

[maxchoboian]

2 hours ago, 15yds4gibberish said:

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, I AM IRONMAN said:

The Dems will do everything they can to rig a mail in election..I mean the best they have is Biden!

Why would mail-in ballots help or hurt one group over another?

[DarterBlue]

16 hours ago, concha said:

 

I remember raising the question.

Are you saying there is no rationale behind raising questions?

Are you saying that destroying an economy would have no repercussions for the mental and physical well-being of the country's citizenry?

We already know that domestic violence is on the increase.  There are those worrying that suicides could increase as people lose their livelihoods.

Do you understand that there are vast areas of the country where people are not stacked on top of one another 24/7/365 and social distancing might not be so critical?

Governor Cuomo himself is signaling budget issues in New York due to the economic crisis being caused.

Do you think healthcare is unaffected when an economy is crippled?  You do realize that healthcare is not free, right? Or do you actually believe it when left-wing pols talk about free healthcare? 🤡

Perhaps unlike you I can actually see the forest for the trees, dimwit.

 

PS:  I'd sacrifice Chiptard the WonderRacist's life for yours.  You're welcome.

 

You are in no position to sacrifice the life of another. Thank God for that! I would not want anyone to sacrifice their life for me. I have and am quite capable of taking care of myself, thank you very much. 

You raising issues of people's difficulties strikes me as very hypocritical as you have never ever show empathy or compassion for anyone over the years you have posted. But I suppose I should be glad you have had an epiphany! 

[World Citizen]

37 minutes ago, DarterBlue said:

You are in no position to sacrifice the life of another. Thank God for that! I would not want anyone to sacrifice their life for me. I have and am quite capable of taking care of myself, thank you very much. 

You raising issues of people's difficulties strikes me as very hypocritical as you have never ever show empathy or compassion for anyone over the years you have posted. But I suppose I should be glad you have had an epiphany! 

Lol.  No he hasn't.  

[World Citizen]

1 hour ago, maxchoboian said:

 

Why would mail-in ballots help or hurt one group over another?

Aha!  A question meant to elicit some critical thinking and/or an intelligent response.  I don't see it working but you never know.  

Mail in would be bad news for Republicans and them attacking the idea immediately is evidence of that.  

[Nolebull813]

40 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

Aha!  A question meant to elicit some critical thinking and/or an intelligent response.  I don't see it working but you never know.  

Mail in would be bad news for Republicans and them attacking the idea immediately is evidence of that.  

Yes, it would be bad for Republicans because they know there Wouldn’t be proper oversight and Democrats could steal more elections. If Democrats are pushing for it, they know it helps them. They know the cities with the most population will protect them, and enact massive fraud to put their people in office. 
 

Here’s the real question. Why isn’t voter ID a good idea? Because it hurts Democrats right? They will only support ideas and issues that help them gain or retain power. That’s it. 

[concha]

2 hours ago, DarterBlue said:

You are in no position to sacrifice the life of another. Thank God for that! I would not want anyone to sacrifice their life for me. I have and am quite capable of taking care of myself, thank you very much. 

You raising issues of people's difficulties strikes me as very hypocritical as you have never ever show empathy or compassion for anyone over the years you have posted. But I suppose I should be glad you have had an epiphany! 

 

Relax, Francis.

🤣

 

PS:  You may be surprised to know that it is possible to care for and provide for others without turning to the government and voting dollars out of other people's pockets.

 

[I AM IRONMAN]

2 hours ago, maxchoboian said:

 

Why would mail-in ballots help or hurt one group over another?

Earlier someone posted that they sent him ballots for his kids that moved out 8-10 years ago. With everything the Dems tried...and failed miserably to the point it made him stronger..to push Trump out..i would not be surprised of shenanigans I tells ya!

[maxchoboian]

25 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

Yes, it would be bad for Republicans because they know there Wouldn’t be proper oversight and Democrats could steal more elections. If Democrats are pushing for it, they know it helps them. They know the cities with the most population will protect them, and enact massive fraud to put their people in office. 
 

Here’s the real question. Why isn’t voter ID a good idea? Because it hurts Democrats right? They will only support ideas and issues that help them gain or retain power. That’s it. 

I'm not sure who's pushing for what, just wondering why it would benefit one and not another. It sounds like you opinion is that it benefits Democrats because they are stealers. OK, I don't believe either group steals more or less than the other, but you seem to be convinced otherwise.

And then your "real" question about what is wrong with voter ID? I don't know, I've done in-person voting for a long time, but being able to mail it in or drop it in a drop box is much more convenient for me, so I like that. I'm not a big fan of standing for any length of time in a line of strangers. And anyway, I thought you have suggested that millions of illegals are voting right now already, with voter ID in place. 

[Slotback Right]

1 hour ago, World Citizen said:

Aha!  A question meant to elicit some critical thinking and/or an intelligent response.  I don't see it working but you never know.  

Mail in would be bad news for Republicans and them attacking the idea immediately is evidence of that.  

Max was asking a question, intending to put Republicans on the spot to explain why mail voting would favor one side over the other..

You chimed in to say that indeed it would favor Dems and be "bad news for Republicans." So now tell him (and us), WHY it favors Dems, and is bad news for Republicans.

[maxchoboian]

1 minute ago, Slotback Right said:

Max was asking a question, intending to put Republicans on the spot to explain why mail voting would favor one side over the other..

You chimed in to say that indeed it would favor Dems and be "bad news for Republicans." So now tell him (and us), WHY it favors Dems, and is bad news for Republicans.

No, I wasn't trying to put anyone on the spot. I am curious why it is bad for one group while being good for another. I think it is strange that so many things are dissected and become Republican vs. Democrat. It's sad. And as I responded to Nolebull, I do not agree that Democrats cheat any more than Republicans. Therefore, it doesn't seem logical to me that one side gains an advantage in a situation where the playing field appears to be even. Like mail-in voting. When it was introduced here, I had not been a proponent or opponent, but I have found I don't mind the convenience. That's all.

[Slotback Right]

10 hours ago, maxchoboian said:

Sounds like two separate things, being ballots and jury summons. Ballots are mailed based on a person's voter registration file. I'm surprised you were not told for 10 years that a person can go online and edit their address in their file. And jury summons are generated from a number of lists, including voter registration, along with driver's licenses and other databases. The jury summons could be a result of incorrect information in a number of places, not just voter registration. While there is undoubtedly room for mistakes, I do not think everybody (or even many) are getting extra votes for dead family members.

I very much doubt that I can edit their address in their file. They would have to do it. And what file are you talking about anyway?

According to Commissioner Kelley a jury summons could be generated from one of two sources. Voter Rolls and driver's licenses. Since my son has lived in Alabama, Massachusetts, and now Maryland. I know for a fact that he has had a driver's license in Alabama and Massachusetts, and assume he has gotten one in Maryland by now. So, if his Colorado License expired years ago, he must still have been on the voter rolls, in order to generate a jury summons (again according to Commissioner Kelley).

The SCOTUS has already upheld the purging of voter rolls for inactive voters who don't respond to inquiries about whether they still live at the address on file. Ballot harvesting is another problem that presents addition opportunities for fraud.

Voter ID laws are all about stopping fraud...not about voter suppression or discrimination of any kind. Voters should have to show that they are citizens when they register to vote, and again WHEN they vote, they should have to show that they are, who they say they are. That can't be done by mail.

[Slotback Right]

45 minutes ago, I AM IRONMAN said:

Earlier someone posted that they sent him ballots for his kids that moved out 8-10 years ago. With everything the Dems tried...and failed miserably to the point it made him stronger..to push Trump out..i would not be surprised of shenanigans I tells ya!

Yes, thank you Ironman. And I posted that this was the first time time I DIDN'T get a ballot for the kids, but that was just a Republican  ballot to vote for a nominee, and they are Libertarians I believe, so I won't be sure it's been taken care of until after the general election.

I wonder how many people, faced with the same circumstances, even if they are honest, DON'T try to straighten it out, but merely shred the extra ballots. 

[World Citizen]

8 hours ago, Slotback Right said:

Max was asking a question, intending to put Republicans on the spot to explain why mail voting would favor one side over the other..

You chimed in to say that indeed it would favor Dems and be "bad news for Republicans." So now tell him (and us), WHY it favors Dems, and is bad news for Republicans.

I didn't read his question that way.

First, when every American can easily vote, which is not the case today, it would favor America.  As for Democrats, a higher turnout is usually good for them while the opposite is true for Republicans, which is why they try so hard to suppress votes where they think they can.  Republicans have a long history of doing this and there is plenty of evidence out there of them doing this.  Those most affected by these efforts  are minority and poor communities, disabled and they vote Democrat to a high degree.  

Arguments against mail in ballots is an made up argument, the same as it is with the argument for voter ID laws.  To prevent voter fraud.  Voter fraud is basically nonexistent.  Mail in ballots and absentee ballots have slightly more allegations of fraud but still the numbers are so small that they are not the problem they are being portrayed.  Mail in fraud is maybe 0.000? % and voter impersonation is nonexistent.

Here is a link with many different studies about voter fraud, from all political leanings.

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/Briefing_Memo_Debunking_Voter_Fraud_Myth.pdf

https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet

https://www.nytimes.com/article/mail-in-voting-explained.html

https://scholars.org/sites/scholars/files/ssn_key_findings_minnite_on_the_myth_of_voter_fraud.pdf

Trump has been leading the charge against mail in ballots but he himself has mailed in his ballot in Florida for a couple of elections.  Can you make any sense of that?

[World Citizen]

9 hours ago, Nolebull813 said:

Yes, it would be bad for Republicans because they know there Wouldn’t be proper oversight and Democrats could steal more elections. If Democrats are pushing for it, they know it helps them. They know the cities with the most population will protect them, and enact massive fraud to put their people in office. 
 

Here’s the real question. Why isn’t voter ID a good idea? Because it hurts Democrats right? They will only support ideas and issues that help them gain or retain power. That’s it. 

Do you have any links or evidence to support your claim of Democrats stealing more elections?  Of course you don't because there isn't any and you just pulled those claims right out of your ass.  

And why would Democrats support ideas and issues that would help them lose?  Why would a Republican?  

Do your own research instead of listening to people who are giving you wrong information.  Oh, I forgot, you don't believe anybody or anything unless it comes from Trump right?  In that case, research would be a waste of time for you.

[DBP66]

13 hours ago, Nolebull813 said:

Yes, it would be bad for Republicans because they know there Wouldn’t be proper oversight and Democrats could steal more elections..LOL..and who got caught gerrymandering districts??..the republicons..🙄.  If Democrats are pushing for it, they know it helps them. They know the cities with the most population will protect them, and enact massive fraud to put their people in office. 
 

Here’s the real question. Why isn’t voter ID a good idea? Because it hurts Democrats right? They will only support ideas and issues that help them gain or retain power. That’s it. 

the real question is why are Repubicons always trying to suppress votes in America??...😔

 

[thc6795]

The party that lost 33k emails, they party that was forced to remove 1.6 million CA unregistered voters. The party that is now removing 5 million MILLION  CA unregistered voters. Wants you to believe they wont fuck with a mail in election. 

[15yds4gibberish]

10 hours ago, World Citizen said:

I didn't read his question that way.

First, when every American can easily vote, which is not the case today, it would favor America.  As for Democrats, a higher turnout is usually good for them while the opposite is true for Republicans, which is why they try so hard to suppress votes where they think they can.  Republicans have a long history of doing this and there is plenty of evidence out there of them doing this.  Those most affected by these efforts  are minority and poor communities, disabled and they vote Democrat to a high degree.  

Arguments against mail in ballots is an made up argument, the same as it is with the argument for voter ID laws.  To prevent voter fraud.  Voter fraud is basically nonexistent.  Mail in ballots and absentee ballots have slightly more allegations of fraud but still the numbers are so small that they are not the problem they are being portrayed.  Mail in fraud is maybe 0.000? % and voter impersonation is nonexistent.

Here is a link with many different studies about voter fraud, from all political leanings.

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/analysis/Briefing_Memo_Debunking_Voter_Fraud_Myth.pdf

https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet

https://www.nytimes.com/article/mail-in-voting-explained.html

https://scholars.org/sites/scholars/files/ssn_key_findings_minnite_on_the_myth_of_voter_fraud.pdf

Trump has been leading the charge against mail in ballots but he himself has mailed in his ballot in Florida for a couple of elections.  Can you make any sense of that?

This is such a good post.  Very much appreciate the links.  Like you, every time I've looked into it, it comes back that voting fraud has not been a real problem.

We are in a pandemic.  It really isn't hard to see that we are likely to still be in a pandemic in November (2nd wave of Spanish flu was deadlier than the first).  Elections in pandemics pose two risks: Spreading infection and diminishing democratic legitimacy -- If large numbers of voters stay home, the outcome will be de-legitimized. 

WI was a disaster.  We cannot repeat that on a national level -- And it is a failure of leadership if we do.  Voting should not be dangerous to one's health.  So we need to figure out how all Americans can safely vote  and start making plans to make it happen now.  We could have mail in voting (with proper checks that many states have figured out how to do in a fair manner).  We could have drive through voting.  We could make these things 'pandemic rules' so everybody can agree to just get through the next election, reverting back to our old BS arguments afterward.  Whatever it takes. The point is, this learned helplessness that there is nothing that can be done, so we must choose between voting and being safe,  is a false choice well beneath a great nation.  

From your NYT link.  The NC case is the only sizable case of mail in fraud that I was aware of in recent years.  It was a Republican operative who carried it out:

 

It really isn't all that clear to me that mail in voting would favor one party over another.  

[thc6795]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/michigan-democrat-hit-with-six-felony-charges-for-alleged-voter-fraud-scheme

https://apnews.com/9d9c478508ab4429af37b6c8a815ec4c

One fraudulent vote is enough to say fuck mail in elections