Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 1 minute ago, concha said: You're having a rough morning. I always get a laugh when concha tries to be taken seriously only for him to ruin it about three words into a thread. Like this one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 Quote "...Yet, over half (53.5%) of those reporting “very liberal” political views estimated that 1,000 or more unarmed Black men were killed, a likely error of at least an order of magnitude" "...The available data suggest that 24.9% of people killed by police in 2019 were Black. However, across the political spectrum, survey participants overestimated this number. • Those who reported being “liberal” or “very liberal” were particularly inaccurate, estimating the proportion to be 56% and 60%, respectively" So who's been feeding them the bullshit? Their politicians? The mainstream press? "Activists"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBP66 Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 43 Cases, No Convictions: Prosecuting the Police Falters in New York Sarah Maslin Nir Fri, February 26, 2021, 8:11 AM More than five years ago, Andrew Cuomo, the governor of New York, signed an executive order to address a persistent concern: Police officers were rarely held accountable for killing unarmed people. Often, those who died were Black. The solution was to take the cases out of the hands of local prosecutors, whose close relationships with the police led to accusations of bias, and hand them over to the office of the state attorney general. But the change in the legal process has not altered the results. Of the 43 investigations that the attorney general’s office has conducted in the years since, none has led to a conviction. Three officers have been charged — two with murder and another with assault, the office said. On Tuesday, there was another familiar outcome. A grand jury convened by the attorney general’s office declined to indict any of the seven officers involved in the incident that led to the death of Daniel Prude in Rochester last year. Prude, who was Black, died after the police arrested him in the throes of an apparent psychotic episode, placed a hood over his head and pressed him into the street until he became unconscious. The case shows that even as the demand that the police face more serious consequences has intensified, the legal system remains tilted in favor of law enforcement, said current and former prosecutors who have sought charges against officers. New York’s system of investigating deaths caused by police officers is among the most far-reaching in the nation. But officers are afforded special legal protections when they use force in the course of their job. And juries are historically deferential to the police and receptive to arguments defending their actions. Officers often must make split-second decisions in dangerous circumstances, a reality that is not lost on jurors. “The system was built to protect and shield officers from wrongdoing and accountability,” Letitia James, the New York attorney general, said when she announced the results of the investigation into Prude’s death. James added that she was “disappointed — extremely disappointed” in the grand jury’s decision. Cuomo signed the executive order in 2015, a year after the killing of Eric Garner, a Staten Island man who died in a police chokehold. Gwen Carr, Garner’s mother, was present as the governor said he hoped the order would restore some faith in the legal system. “I’m not aware of any state unit on the same level as the one in New York,” said Philip M. Stinson, a criminal justice professor at Bowling Green State University in Ohio and a former police officer. The special unit assigned to the investigations in New York is made up of “top-notch prosecutors, they know what they’re doing, they have a lot of experience. And they still can’t get grand juries to return indictments, let alone obtain convictions.” The office has been limited in its mission by the order’s narrow design: Until a new law goes into effect in April, prosecutors can only pursue cases that result in a death. The victim also has to have been unarmed. In one case, prosecutors determined they were unable to move forward with an investigation when a man was shot by police after he struck and seriously injured an officer with a chair. The chair, prosecutors decided, qualified as a weapon. A spokesperson for the attorney general, as well as supporters of New York’s program, said the lack of charges and convictions belied the unit’s other achievement: enhancing public trust by extracting these cases from the hands of local prosecutors who might be loath to prosecute the police — in essence, their partners in law enforcement. “The numbers alone do not account for the independence and transparency that is so critical and that we provide,” said Delaney Kempner, a spokesperson for James. But to some members of the public — and those who have lost loved ones at the hands of the police — improved transparency provides little comfort. “The justice system doesn’t give a damn about us,” Joe Prude, Prude’s brother, told The New York Times a day after the grand jury declined to charge anyone involved in his brother’s death. “That’s not built for anyone in the community; that’s built for the police to keep slaughtering people.” The attorney general’s program, called the Special Investigations and Prosecutions Unit, has noted that Black and Latino people are disproportionately the victims of deadly police force. A 2019 biennial report from the unit pointed out a “disturbing trend” in the period covered by the report. Of the 13 civilians killed in police custody or in shootings involving police, seven were Black and four were Latino. In her news conference about Prude’s case, James seemed to blame the outcome in the case on limitations inherent in the law. Police officers in New York have the legal right to use deadly force in numerous circumstances, such as when they feel their own lives are in danger. In cases that do not involve shootings, investigators are often unable to show conclusively that officers’ actions directly caused the deaths of people in their custody. In one case in 2018, the unit did not seek charges after a Bronx man was restrained by seven officers and died. In another, in 2020, after a woman in Rockland County died after being restrained and shot with a Taser by police officers, the unit found it could not establish that the officers had committed a crime. Even for prosecutors who are dedicated to investigating cases against police officers, doing so is not easy. Christy E. Lopez, a former Department of Justice lawyer who helped lead the investigation into the police department in Ferguson, Missouri, said that public opinion remains on the side of the police. “Despite all the protests this summer, the fact is that most Americans are incredibly protective of police, especially in these criminal cases,” said Lopez, who is now a professor at the Georgetown University Law Center. “And so that’s the thing to look at, is are we willing to hold police criminally accountable?” Jim Burch, president of the National Police Foundation, an organization that seeks to help police do their jobs more effectively, said that he had heard from officers who had issues with police accountability measures. “There are some who believe that some of these measures may not be necessary, maybe they’re an overreach, maybe they’re not going to solve the actual problems that some feel exist. They feel that the problems are more associated with things like training, or compensation,” he said. But he added that his organization believed in accountability measures, including prosecutorial independence, and he felt that ultimately they helped the reputation and legitimacy of police officers. In an email, a spokesperson for the governor, Peter Ajemian, said Cuomo was committed to accountability in the justice system beyond the executive order. “The governor believes the best way to repair the rupture in police-community relations is for localities to re-imagine policing in a way that suits their unique needs,” Ajemian said. Last summer, after years of political wrangling, lawmakers in Albany enshrined the executive order into law and expanded its scope to include cases of people who were armed. “That clarity is really helpful because in these investigations, every second counts,” said Alvin Bragg, a lawyer who led the state unit under the former attorney general, Eric Schneiderman. The office said that the broadening of the law, which goes into effect in April, is likely to triple its caseload. Bragg, a Democrat who is a candidate for Manhattan district attorney, said that without additional reforms, racial biases that lead juries to see Black victims as less sympathetic would continue to keep police free from legal consequences. “We need some law reform, and we need the police not to kill people in the first instance,” Bragg said. Assemblyman N. Nick Perry, a Democrat who represents southeast Brooklyn and was one of the main backers of the law, stressed that it was only a first step. Perry said establishing a legal definition of what qualifies as excessive force is central so that jurors can determine if the police have broken the law. But absent such a definition, “there is no limit on the police officer’s perception and judgment in the situation,” Perry said, “which is what leads to a lot of acquittals when there are strong cases that what was done was criminal.” This article originally appeared in The New York Times. © 2021 The New York Times Company Our goal is to create a safe and engag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 2 hours ago, concha said: So who's been feeding them the bullshit? Their politicians? The mainstream press? "Activists"? One of your central claims and you have no evidence to support any of your targets. Apparently, it's not the "rag" Washington Post since they painstakingly put together this database. People generally don't need to be fed anything to be uninformed. They can do quite well on their own. But if I was going to make this charge I'd at the very least have some examples to give showing how the mainstream media had misinformed people. My guess is you're either to lazy to gather such examples or none exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 15 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: One of your central claims and you have no evidence to support any of your targets. Apparently, it's not the "rag" Washington Post since they painstakingly put together this database. People generally don't need to be fed anything to be uninformed. They can do quite well on their own. But if I was going to make this charge I'd at the very least have some examples to give showing how the mainstream media had misinformed people. My guess is you're either to lazy to gather such examples or none exist. So, large swathes of liberals have no clue what the actual numbers are - far moreso than amongst conservatives - but this all happens in a vacuum. The NYT, WaPo, MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC etc have all done yeoman's work to make sure the truth is out there and correct their readers and viewers (over half of Libtardia) who have their heads up their asses. Good to know. Thanks, Andy. I'd love to see all the articles and videos of leftist "journalists" correcting liberal pols and activists. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 15 minutes ago, concha said: So, large swathes of liberals have no clue what the actual numbers are - far moreso than amongst conservatives - but this all happens in a vacuum. Ignorance of facts and statistics has never needed a source before. Why would this be any different? Who misinformed all of America about the percentage of the federal budget that goes to foreign aid? Guess How Much Of Uncle Sam's Money Goes To Foreign Aid. Guess Again! How much of the federal budget goes to foreign aid? What's your best guess? 10 percent? 20 percent? 1 percent? If you're like most Americans, you probably guessed wrong. In December, the Kaiser Family Foundation polled 1,505 people. Only 1 in 20 knew the right answer: less than 1 percent of the $4 trillion federal budget goes to foreign aid. The average respondent estimated that 26 percent went toward assisting other countries. This is just one famous example that I can remember. Somehow you want to keep up the ruse that conservatives didn't get it wrong either. But they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 16 minutes ago, concha said: So, large swathes of liberals have no clue what the actual numbers are - far moreso than amongst conservatives - but this all happens in a vacuum. The NYT, WaPo, MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC etc have all done yeoman's work to make sure the truth is out there and correct their readers and viewers (over half of Libtardia) who have their heads up their asses. One of your problems, among many, is that you insist on spreading the lie that only liberals were uninformed of the number. But everybody was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 18 minutes ago, concha said: (over half of Libtardia) It's almost as if you're standing on the street corner with a sandwich board that reads "Don't take me seriously!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 Just now, Atticus Finch said: Ignorance of facts and statistics has never needed a source before. Why would this be any different? Who misinformed all of America about the percentage of the federal budget goes to foreign aid? Guess How Much Of Uncle Sam's Money Goes To Foreign Aid. Guess Again! How much of the federal budget goes to foreign aid? What's your best guess? 10 percent? 20 percent? 1 percent? If you're like most Americans, you probably guessed wrong. In December, the Kaiser Family Foundation polled 1,505 people. Only 1 in 20 knew the right answer: less than 1 percent of the $4 trillion federal budget goes to foreign aid. The average respondent estimated that 26 percent went toward assisting other countries. This is just one famous example that I can remember. Somehow you want to keep up the ruse that conservatives didn't get it wrong either. But they did. There is clear, huge difference between the levels of ignorance on this issue between the left and the right. Nobody is stupid enough to believe it's pure chance. People think they have an idea and those ideas have to be based on something. Typically, people develop ideas and beliefs about political and social issues from things like the news, politicians and the platforms of their political parties. The amount of foreign aid in the budget has not caused deaths, riots and billions in destruction in the past year nor been one of the biggest issues in America. Keep dancing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 21 minutes ago, concha said: I'd love to see all the articles and videos of leftist "journalists" correcting liberal pols and activists. They don't exist because I've never seen anybody make the claim that you attempted to rebut with this post. Nobody claimed that police killed 10,000 unarmed black men so therefore police brutality is a problem in America. It's a strawman. If this same method was attempted on any other issue then you'd have to summarily dismiss those issues as well since the public would get the figure spectacularly wrong every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 5 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: One of your problems, among many, is that you insist on spreading the lie that only liberals were uninformed of the number. But everybody was wrong. No, dumbass. The poll only allowed for respondents to be close/in0the-ballpark or way fucking off. Liberals tended to be way fucking off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, concha said: There is clear, huge difference between the levels of ignorance on this issue between the left and the right. Of two ignorant groups, one is less ignorant than another on a red herring. Congrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 1 minute ago, Atticus Finch said: They don't exist because I've never seen anybody make the claim that you attempted to rebut with this post. Nobody claimed that police killed 10,000 unarmed black men so therefore police brutality is a problem in America. It's a strawman. If this same method was attempted on any other issue then you'd have to summarily dismiss those issues as well since the public would get the figure spectacularly wrong every time. It's not a strawman. It is proof that regarding one of the biggest issues in America, liberals tend to be thinking and acting based on incredible ignorance. Your efforts to divert from, deflect from, and mischaracterize this truth are laughable, but entirely in character for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 5 minutes ago, concha said: Nobody is stupid enough to believe it's pure chance. Nobody said it was pure chance. There you are just making stuff up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 6 minutes ago, concha said: The amount of foreign aid in the budget has not caused deaths, riots and billions in destruction in the past year nor been one of the biggest issues in America. Talk about dancing. 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 Just now, Atticus Finch said: Of two ignorant groups, one is less ignorant than another on a red herring. Congrats. A lot less ignorant. With a large majority having a clue rather than small minority. No congratulations needed. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: Nobody said it was pure chance. There you are just making stuff up again. You said they do it on their own. What is it then about liberals that makes them so effing uninformed about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 7 minutes ago, concha said: No, dumbass. The poll only allowed for respondents to be close/in0the-ballpark or way fucking off. Liberals tended to be way fucking off. 66% of moderates and 44% of conservatives thought the number was 4x higher and yet concha is doing an end zone dance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 6 minutes ago, concha said: It is proof that regarding one of the biggest issues in America, liberals tend to be thinking and acting based on incredible ignorance. Since they're right on the actual issue their ignorance of a particular number is meaningless. It's a red herring. You don't want to talk about police killing black people and so you'll introduce stuff like this to muddy the waters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: Talk about dancing. 😄 Ok, Weirdo. In your world you are surprised that people don't know about percent of foreign aid in the budget but not so that your people are so disgracefully ignorant of an issue that's been in the headlines for ages. This is why we laugh at you. You try to act serious when you are being purposefully disingenuous. Andy shuckin' and jivin' 🤡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 6 minutes ago, concha said: A lot less ignorant. With a large majority having a clue rather than small minority. No congratulations needed. 44% of conservatives thought it was 4x higher. concha dancing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 5 minutes ago, concha said: You said they do it on their own. So how does that mean random chance? People are lazy and uninformed. They don't need encouragement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, concha said: Ok, Weirdo. We know that concha is stumbling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, concha said: In your world you are surprised that people don't know about percent of foreign aid in the budget but not so that your people are so disgracefully ignorant of an issue that's been in the headlines for ages. concha is incapable of addressing a counterpoint. Ever. He just dismisses it and then eggs people on to argue his point. But he won't acknowledge said points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 26, 2021 Report Share Posted February 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, concha said: You try to act serious when you are being purposefully disingenuous. I'm not acting. I actually am serious. And being called disingenuous by you is like Michael Jackson calling someone a child molester. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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