Atticus Finch Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 33 minutes ago, badrouter said: - 130, 27.5 for loss, tackles as the starting middle linebacker on a state title team By the way, these numbers are complete bullshit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 35 minutes ago, badrouter said: But, yes, going on three years later, he's just a backup RB at Montana State. And, unless the fullback magically returns as a meaningful part of NFL offenses, he will not play a down of pro football. (He actually could play in the NFL as a fullback IMO)/ If you were Polk County Defensive Player of the Year, and had the above achievements, and are now a backup running back at FCS Montana State then there are a myriad of things that we can unpack. One of them, however, is not "great football player." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Sammyswordsman said: 28 Teams now in. Open for two more additions Team Year Tier Allen 2013-2015 Bergen Catholic 1997-99 Bishop Gorman 2014-'16 Booker T Washington 2012-'14 Buford 2001-'03 Central Bucks West (Pa) 1997-'99 Cocoa, FL 2008-'10 De La Salle 2000-'02 Don Bosco Prep 2009-'11 Edison, CA 1979-'81 Evangel Christian 1997-99 Independence, SC 2002-'04 La Marque 1995-'97 Lake Travis 2004-'06 Lakeland 2004-'06 Lowndes 2004 -'06 Mater Dei 2017-'19 Moeller 1975-77 Parkview 2000-'02 South Panola 2005-2007 Southlake Carrol 2004-'06 St. Ignatious 1993-'95 St. John Bosco 2013-'15 St. Josephs (Pa) 2018-'20 St. Thomas Aquinas 2008-'10 St. Xavier (OH) 2005-'07 Thomas Central (Ga) 1992-'94 West Monroe 1996-1998 Open Open Hell, put Bastrop, La on the list. (2005-2007) 44-0 3 4A State Championships. Notable wins: Evangel Christian (remember them, they are on the DLS "run" resume) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 23 minutes ago, concha said: Well now that's it's being pointed out, you have a choice to make. Three years in Ohio D1 with three straight titles (part of a 5-year run) and two national poll titles. Just one loss. I think they deserve to be mentioned. Although I think we've already debated my contention that Ohio D1 was considerably "down" during that period. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammyswordsman Posted April 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 minute ago, RedZone said: Hell, put Bastrop, La on the list. (2005-2007) 44-0 3 4A State Championships. Notable wins: Evangel Christian (remember them, they are on the DLS "run" resume) Thank you for your nomination. In order to proceed, Please supply any supporting Top 25 National Rankings during those years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 Just now, RedZone said: Hell, put Bastrop, La on the list. (2005-2007) 44-0 3 4A State Championships. Notable wins: Evangel Christian (remember them, they are on the DLS "run" resume) I can give you a Bastrop Ram D1 count from that period if needed.....they had lots of it....which included 5* WR Rueben Randle. https://247sports.com/Player/Rueben-Randle-23490/high-school-37474/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammyswordsman Posted April 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 Allen Pros and Cons - Won Texas 6A 2013 and '14 years, but 2014 defense yielded alot of yards and points. '13 Team listed among Top 10 Greatest ever. Bishop Gorman - Beat 15 highly regarded OOS teams. Beat Cen10 and SJB in '14. No relevant wins in '15. But highly ranked nationally (Top 5). In 2016 Beat SJB, STA, Cedar Hill, but their best ever team avoided a loss to STA on a end of game chip shot FG that hit the cross bar. 2016 team listed in Top 10 of greatest ever Booker T Wash - 2012 OOS win vs. Cedar Hill but lost to Central. 2013 beat Central, Norcross 55-0 and Bishop Gorman in Vegas. '14 Beat Bingham by 11 and Central by 1 Central Bucks West - Need info DLS -2001 beat #1 Poly's best team in Long Beach, 2002 beat St. Louis in HI, and Poly 2003 Beat ECA. 2001 team listed as the Greatest ever Don Bosco - Outscored opponents 495-93 on average during this run. Crushed DLS in 2009. '09 and '11 listed among Top 25 Greatest teams ever. ECA - Brock Berlin was QB. Not sure if any OOD or OOS opponnents Need more info Lakeland - Won Fla Championships. Ranked #1 in 05 and "06 Not sure if any OOS wins Mater Dei - Beat SJB all three years, Beat IMG, SFA, SJC, DLS twice. Lost to SJB twice.'17 never trailed and is listed amoung Top 10 Greatest teams ever. Moeller - The Moeller Steamroller. Dominated top class in Ohio, won 35-7 vs. Dallas JesuitTexas. Had 40+ scholarship guys on these teams. Continued to win Natties for 4-5 years after this run, and also dominated before this run. '76 team listed among greatest ever SLC - Won Texas 6A thrice in a row. Share of Natty in '04 and '06. Not sure of any OOS wins STA - Share of Natty in '08 and '10. Both listed amoung Top 25 Greatest Ever teams. Lost in semi's in '09. Not sure of any OOS wins St. Iggy - "93 and "95 teams listed in Top 25 HS teams of all time. Need some OOS data to offset claims of Ohio being down during this time https://www.maxpreps.com/news/gX9QBgl7ckGJMiCU7fc5Zw/legendary-de-la-salle,-yates-teams-headline-list-of-greatest-high-school-football-teams-of-all-time.htm https://www.stadiumtalk.com/s/greatest-high-school-football-teams-6f9fa25f10164fc5 https://www.maxpreps.com/news/64ewIM6pREK5c8Q16tl1TA/2012-high-school-football-final-top-13-compilation-poll.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norcalnut Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 4 hours ago, RedZone said: Mater Dei beat Poly in 2002...Mater Dei had 4 losses. Poly was #40 in California in 2002 per CaliforniaPreps....Poly lost to the two best teams they played in CA that year. Those are state rankings, not national rankings of teams in 2002. 40 Poly (Long Beach, CA) Southern Moore 1 1 11-2 5-0 (1st) 10-2 8-1 7-0 10-2 10-2 32.1 15 WINS: #108 Lakewood (CA) (28-12), #166 Narbonne (Harbor City, CA) (34-20), #226 Millikan (Long Beach, CA) (65-0), #259 Edison (Huntington Beach, CA) (30-7), #267 Eisenhower (Rialto, CA) (43-3), #269 Jordan (Long Beach, CA) (50-12), #358 Wilson [Woodrow] (Long Beach, CA) (21-0), #482 Westchester (Los Angeles, CA) (45-0), #555 Compton (CA) (48-0), #738 Rialto (CA) (48-0), Kahuku (HI) (42-16), LOSSES: #1 De La Salle (Concord, CA) (28-7), #19 Mater Dei (Santa Ana, CA) (21-20) Evangel in 2003?.....right! I nominate DLS to be booted from Tier 1 and replaced with West Monroe. Andrew Whitworth, who was on those West Monroe teams told me years ago DLS was nice a LITTLE CA team. 4 hours ago, RedZone said: St Louis, Hawaii also took another LOSS in 2002 to a Hawaii team....there was a reason Poly and St Louis were not ranked in the final 2002 USA Today national poll. So basically in the DLS "run" mentioned here they defeated 1 USA Top 25 team in 3 years. . 1 hour ago, RedZone said: Played better teams that DLS did......I'll give them that. 43 minutes ago, RedZone said: I nominate the Ohio team and nominate DLS be booted from Tier 1 to Tier 2 or possibly even Tier 3. I see that DLS is living rent free in your pea brain. No matter how loud you rant history cannot be changed. 11 MNC’s and 1-0 against the swamp. (Cue evil genius laugh) HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammyswordsman Posted April 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 The below Teams Multiple #1 National rankings during their runs. Team Year Record Nat Rank DLS 2001-03 37-0 #1: #1: #1 Don Bosco 2009-11 36-0 #1; #2: #1 Lakeland 2004-06 43-1 #18, #1, #1/2 Mater Dei 2017-19 42-2 #1: #1: #2 Moeller 1975-77 36-0 #1; #1; #1 SLC 2004-06 48-0 #1;#2; #1/2 STA 2008-10 43-1 #1: ?: #1 St. Ignatius 1993-95 41-1 #1; #22; #1/2 https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/year-by-year-rankings.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 30 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said: The below Teams Multiple #1 National rankings during their runs. Team Year Record Nat Rank DLS 2001-03 37-0 #1: #1: #1 Don Bosco 2009-11 36-0 #1; #2: #1 Mater Dei 2017-19 42-2 #1: #1: #2 Moeller 1976-78 36-0 #1; #1; #1 SLC 2004-06 48-0 #1;#2; #1 STA 2008-10 43-1 #1: ?: #1 St. Ignatious 1993-95 35-1 #1; ?; #1 "Ignatius" And they were 41-1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Atticus Finch said: He's not a great football player, period. I love how some people judge football players based on what they did as a teenager. We don't do this with practically anything else in life. Nobody is considered a great lawyer because they really killed it at a mock trial in high school. But football players? All the time. You continue to be confused on this. This is a high school football message board, and we are discussing three-year runs for high school football teams. The *only* thing we are doing here is judging football players based on what they did as teenagers. There are myriad factors which play into whether a player does or does not have a successful career AFTER high school. Chris Rainey had a frame too small for the NFL and had off the field problems. But we need not wait around to find out if, say, MarShawn Lloyd ends up having a better NFL career to determine whether he was a better *high school* player than Rainey. We know, unequivocally, that Rainey was dramatically better at the high school level. Lloyd gained 33 yards rushing vs. STA; Rainey gained more yards in his career vs. STA than any other back in history, and we'll probably be able to say that when we head to the grave in 50 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, badrouter said: You continue to be confused on this. You claimed that there's no evidence that Derek Wingo was better than some kid who's name I already forgot. I think confusion is constant with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, badrouter said: Lloyd gained 33 yards rushing vs. STA; Rainey gained more yards in his career vs. STA than any other back in history, and we'll probably be able to say that when we head to the grave in 50 years. But I do enjoy the STA obsession as if this fact has anything to do with anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mag44 Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 48 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said: The below Teams Multiple #1 National rankings during their runs. Team Year Record Nat Rank DLS 2001-03 37-0 #1: #1: #1 Don Bosco 2009-11 36-0 #1; #2: #1 Lakeland 2004-06 43-1 #18, #1, #1/2 Mater Dei 2017-19 42-2 #1: #1: #2 Moeller 1976-78 36-0 #1; #1; #1 SLC 2004-06 48-0 #1;#2; #1/2 STA 2008-10 43-1 #1: ?: #1 St. Ignatius 1993-95 41-1 #1; #22; #1/2 https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/year-by-year-rankings.htm DLS appears to be "4" not 3 year run... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Atticus Finch said: By the way, these numbers are complete bullshit. What is your basis for concluding they are bullshit? What are the 'correct' numbers? 🤡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Atticus Finch said: If you were Polk County Defensive Player of the Year, and had the above achievements, and are now a backup running back at FCS Montana State then there are a myriad of things that we can unpack. One of them, however, is not "great football player." It mostly just says that a 5'11" kid that runs a 4.8 forty isn't going to project as a D1 linebacker. And that a kid that can rush for 20 touchdowns on 36 carries-including two against STA- may have a future as a fullback or power back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Sammyswordsman said: Allen Pros and Cons - Won Texas 6A 2013 and '14 years, but 2014 defense yielded alot of yards and points. '13 Team listed amoung Top 10 Greatest ever. Lost in '15. No relevant OOS wins Bishop Gorman - Beat 15 highly regarded OOS teams. Beat Cen10 and SJB in '14. No relevant wins in '15. But highly ranked nationally (Top 5). In 2016 Beat SJB, STA, Cedar Hill, but their best ever team avoided a loss to STA on a end of game chip shot FG that hit the cross bar. 2016 team listed in Top 10 of greatest ever Booker T Wash - 2012 OOS win vs. Cedar Hill but lost to Central. 2013 beat Central, Norcross 55-0 and Bishop Gorman in Vegas. '14 Beat Bingham by 11 and Central by 1 Central Bucks West - Need info DLS -2001 beat #1 Poly's best team in Long Beach, 2002 beat St. Louis in HI, and Poly 2003 Beat ECA. 2001 team listed as the Greatest ever Don Bosco - Outscored opponents 495-93 on average during this run. Crushed DLS in 2009. '09 and '11 listed among Top 25 Greatest teams ever. ECA - Brock Berlin was QB. Not sure if any OOD or OOS opponnents Need more info Lakeland - Won Fla Championships. Ranked #1 in 05 and "06 Not sure if any OOS wins Mater Dei - Beat SJB all three years, Beat IMG, SFA, SJC, DLS twice. Lost to SJB twice.'17 never trailed and is listed amoung Top 10 Greatest teams ever. Moeller - The Moeller Steamroller. Dominated top class in Ohio, won 35-7 vs. Dallas JesuitTexas. Had 40+ scholarship guys on these teams. Continued to win Natties for 4-5 years after this run, and also dominated before this run. '76 team listed among greatest ever SLC - Won Texas 6A thrice in a row. Share of Natty in '04 and '06. Not sure of any OOS wins STA - Share of Natty in '08 and '10. Both listed amoung Top 25 Greatest Ever teams. Lost in semi's in '09. Not sure of any OOS wins St. Iggy - "93 and "95 teams listed in Top 25 HS teams of all time. Need some OOS data to offset claims of Ohio being down during this time https://www.maxpreps.com/news/gX9QBgl7ckGJMiCU7fc5Zw/legendary-de-la-salle,-yates-teams-headline-list-of-greatest-high-school-football-teams-of-all-time.htm https://www.stadiumtalk.com/s/greatest-high-school-football-teams-6f9fa25f10164fc5 Lakeland had a win on the road vs. Cincy St. Xavier, who won Ohio state titles both the year before and the year after. They lost 24-7 to Colerain in 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 37 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: You claimed that there's no evidence that Derek Wingo was better than some kid who's name I already forgot. I think confusion is constant with you. Exactly. And when I made the suggestion, I made it clear that I realized that a kid at Montana St. does not figure to have anywhere near as decorated a career *post* high school as a kid at Florida. Martin was, at minimum, every bit as impactful for Lakeland as Wingo was for STA. Yes, I realize Wingo was very impactful for STA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, badrouter said: Exactly. And when I made the suggestion, I made it clear that I realized that a kid at Montana St. does not figure to have anywhere near as decorated a career *post* high school as a kid at Florida. He didn't have as decorated a high school career either. And simply isn't as good a player. Full stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolebull813 Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 How can you go undefeated for the three straight years and win 2 national championships and not be on this list? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballGuy Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 Just now, Sammyswordsman said: Allen Pros and Cons - Won Texas 6A 2013 and '14 years, but 2014 defense yielded alot of yards and points. '13 Team listed amoung Top 10 Greatest ever. Lost in '15. No relevant OOS wins Bishop Gorman - Beat 15 highly regarded OOS teams. Beat Cen10 and SJB in '14. No relevant wins in '15. But highly ranked nationally (Top 5). In 2016 Beat SJB, STA, Cedar Hill, but their best ever team avoided a loss to STA on a end of game chip shot FG that hit the cross bar. 2016 team listed in Top 10 of greatest ever Booker T Wash - 2012 OOS win vs. Cedar Hill but lost to Central. 2013 beat Central, Norcross 55-0 and Bishop Gorman in Vegas. '14 Beat Bingham by 11 and Central by 1 Central Bucks West - Need info DLS -2001 beat #1 Poly's best team in Long Beach, 2002 beat St. Louis in HI, and Poly 2003 Beat ECA. 2001 team listed as the Greatest ever Don Bosco - Outscored opponents 495-93 on average during this run. Crushed DLS in 2009. '09 and '11 listed among Top 25 Greatest teams ever. ECA - Brock Berlin was QB. Not sure if any OOD or OOS opponnents Need more info Lakeland - Won Fla Championships. Ranked #1 in 05 and "06 Not sure if any OOS wins Mater Dei - Beat SJB all three years, Beat IMG, SFA, SJC, DLS twice. Lost to SJB twice.'17 never trailed and is listed amoung Top 10 Greatest teams ever. Moeller - The Moeller Steamroller. Dominated top class in Ohio, won 35-7 vs. Dallas JesuitTexas. Had 40+ scholarship guys on these teams. Continued to win Natties for 4-5 years after this run, and also dominated before this run. '76 team listed among greatest ever SLC - Won Texas 6A thrice in a row. Share of Natty in '04 and '06. Not sure of any OOS wins STA - Share of Natty in '08 and '10. Both listed amoung Top 25 Greatest Ever teams. Lost in semi's in '09. Not sure of any OOS wins St. Iggy - "93 and "95 teams listed in Top 25 HS teams of all time. Need some OOS data to offset claims of Ohio being down during this time https://www.maxpreps.com/news/gX9QBgl7ckGJMiCU7fc5Zw/legendary-de-la-salle,-yates-teams-headline-list-of-greatest-high-school-football-teams-of-all-time.htm https://www.stadiumtalk.com/s/greatest-high-school-football-teams-6f9fa25f10164fc5 1. Why didn't you start at 2012 for Allen? Didn't they go undefeted that year? 2. Bishop Gorman had no relevant wins in 15? You sure about that? 3. BTW in 2014 went undefeated and escaped with a 6 point win vs Bingham. Bingham probably shoulda won that game tbh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said: The below Teams Multiple #1 National rankings during their runs. Team Year Record Nat Rank DLS 2001-03 37-0 #1: #1: #1 Don Bosco 2009-11 36-0 #1; #2: #1 Lakeland 2004-06 43-1 #18, #1, #1/2 Mater Dei 2017-19 42-2 #1: #1: #2 Moeller 1975-77 36-0 #1; #1; #1 SLC 2004-06 48-0 #1;#2; #1/2 STA 2008-10 43-1 #1: ?: #1 St. Ignatius 1993-95 41-1 #1; #22; #1/2 https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/year-by-year-rankings.htm Perhaps this should be Tier 1. The limit of five teams is arbitrary, and doesn't seem to fit the choices available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badrouter Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 51 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: He didn't have as decorated a high school career either. And simply isn't as good a player. Full stop. I'm talking primarily about where he was as a senior, though he played a lot on a defense that shut Carol City out for a half before falling 14-6 in the state title game as a sophomore. Point is, he's nowhere near the prospect Wingo is. But, do yourself a favor and rewatch that 2018 title game. I've done so 237 times. Martin had a bigger impact on that game than Wingo did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 53 minutes ago, badrouter said: What is your basis for concluding they are bullshit? What are the 'correct' numbers? 🤡 I've watched tons of film and done the game reports before and there simply aren't enough tackles in a season to account for 130. A middle linebacker with 27.5 TFLs is patently absurd. Defensive statistics are easily fudged and from my experience Lakeland has been doing it for years. I remember in 2005 that Troy Johnson and Scott Bryant both had 150+ tackles. I laughed out loud when I saw that. Here's Scott Bryant's bio at FIU. https://fiusports.com/sports/football/roster/scott-bryant/420 led Lakeland with 191 total tackles, including 88 solo stops, 41 tackles for loss, five sacks and 18 quarterback hurries...in his best game against Winter Haven had 22 tackles with two sacks and recorded 16 tackles against Kathleen 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted April 23, 2021 Report Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 hour ago, badrouter said: It mostly just says that a 5'11" kid that runs a 4.8 forty isn't going to project as a D1 linebacker. Somehow it escapes you that a slow linebacker isn't a great player. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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