Does MD 2017 squad still hold up as being a OIAG team?

[HurricaneNick]

 

😄

[badrouter]

14 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

People scoffed in August of 2017 when we sounded the alarm that The Stache had assembled a Once In a Generation team

There was no doubt that the offense would be entertaining with JT Danials at QB, an electric 4 wide receiver set led by Amon Ra St. Brown, and 5 three year starters on the O-line featuring gigantic Tommy Brown.

The Defense had some holes to fill especially at LB but with the Transfers Mase Funa and Solo Tuliaupupu suddenly seasoned vets could see the fog clearing in the crystal ball and knew that the Monarchs had something special.

The team proceeded to hand Bishop Gorman their first defeat in over 40 games, and then demolish the NJ state champions in devastating fashion enroute to a perfect season in which they never trailed.

The following year the Monarchs were a few steps down from 2017 and were rebuilding, and faced one of IMG's best teams also riding an impressive win streak.  The result was another MD win.  Had IMG won, their fans would have proclaimed them as a OIAG team and the win would have been proof that MD 2017 was not all that.

IN 2019 SFA was terrorizing the Eastern seabord with their own OIAG team, and faced a MD team that was trending up but had question marks.  East coast homies were cackling and tuning in to see The Stache get punched in the mouth.  The result was SFA almost getting a running clock put on them, and the Monarchs going on to finish as CIFSS runner ups to SJB.

Admittedly, even I thought The Stache was in serious trouble when SFA came out for warm ups.

 

As the years go by, the accomplishments of the 2017 MD team not only hold up, but become even more impressive in hindsight.  

This was truly a Once in a Generation Team of which we may never again see the likes of.

 

NO I didn't lose a bet to Hurricane Nick. In fact he still hasn't paid off his avatar bet to me.  But I am fair and balanced enough to recognize good performances.

 

 

I can't say there is any team that I would definitively favor over the 2017 MD team. But, there is a case to be made that they aren't as good as some may think.

As has been pointed out, the 2018 and 2019 teams should not be used to make a case for the 2017 team. That said, I am unconvinced the 2017 team was as good or better than 2019. And of course the 2019 team did not win a title (I've said I think they were considerably better-maybe 2 TDs- than the SJB team that knocked them off.)

The 2017 team won at home 35-21 over Gorman. But, Gorman lost at home to a 3-loss Miami Central team. So, while Gorman (and Central) were both really good, a 2-TD win at home over *that* Gorman team is not much in the context of all-time greatest teams. MD beat SJB by 10 points in the first match, but STA beat SJB by six points with one of its weakest teams in the last 18 years. They beat them more decisively in the 2nd game, but it's hard to discern which of the two games was the more accurate outcome. SJB losing to that STA team really weakens the case for MD and SJB.

If I had to pick a best MD team, I think I'd go with 2019.

[Nolebull813]

California, Bruce Rollinson and Mater Dei are so good they won 4 national championships, but only 3 state titles 😂

[HurricaneNick]

5 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

California, Bruce Rollinson and Mater Dei are so good they won 4 national championships, but only 3 state titles 😂

The playoff system was stupid and CIF didn’t have So cal/Nor cal didn’t meet for a state championship until 2006 I believe. 

[Sammyswordsman]

1 hour ago, badrouter said:

I can't say there is any team that I would definitively favor over the 2017 MD team. But, there is a case to be made that they aren't as good as some may think.

As has been pointed out, the 2018 and 2019 teams should not be used to make a case for the 2017 team. That said, I am unconvinced the 2017 team was as good or better than 2019. And of course the 2019 team did not win a title (I've said I think they were considerably better-maybe 2 TDs- than the SJB team that knocked them off.)

The 2017 team won at home 35-21 over Gorman. But, Gorman lost at home to a 3-loss Miami Central team. So, while Gorman (and Central) were both really good, a 2-TD win at home over *that* Gorman team is not much in the context of all-time greatest teams. MD beat SJB by 10 points in the first match, but STA beat SJB by six points with one of its weakest teams in the last 18 years. They beat them more decisively in the 2nd game, but it's hard to discern which of the two games was the more accurate outcome. SJB losing to that STA team really weakens the case for MD and SJB.

If I had to pick a best MD team, I think I'd go with 2019.

*Note in the 2017 game vs. BG, JT Daniels was coming off s sore rotator cuff and was on a very limited pitch count.  Amon Ra did not play either.  (end of note).  MD defense was all over BG, who got a couple lucky break away TD's but could not drive the ball at all

[FootballGuy]

20 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

*Note in the 2017 game vs. BG, JT Daniels was coming off s sore rotator cuff and was on a very limited pitch count.  Amon Ra did not play either.  (end of note).  MD defense was all over BG, who got a couple lucky break away TD's but could not drive the ball at all

Yeah that's cool and all but why wait until they were watered down to finally play them? 

[HurricaneNick]

37 minutes ago, FootballGuy said:

Yeah that's cool and all but why wait until they were watered down to finally play them? 

Watered down. Lmao. We’ve already gone over this.
They had the #1 Linebacker in the country (USC). #1 Tight end in the country (Miami). The #2 Quarterback in the country(UCLA). They also had 2 kids sign with Michigan state. 1 kid sign with Tennessee. 1 kid sign with TCU. 1 kid sign with Washington. 1 kid sign with Nevada. That’s only their senior class. A bunch more D1 guys on that gorman team MD handled. 9 D1 seniors alone is not watered down in the slightest. Probably 20-25 D1 guys on that roster. They won’t play us now so you can call it even. MD has reached out multiple times and heard nothing back. Why are you a gorman fan if you’re from Georgia? You always have a lot to say about gorman, have ties to Vegas? 

[FootballGuy]

1 hour ago, HurricaneNick said:

Watered down. Lmao. We’ve already gone over this.
They had the #1 Linebacker in the country (USC). #1 Tight end in the country (Miami). The #2 Quarterback in the country(UCLA). They also had 2 kids sign with Michigan state. 1 kid sign with Tennessee. 1 kid sign with TCU. 1 kid sign with Washington. 1 kid sign with Nevada. That’s only their senior class. A bunch more D1 guys on that gorman team MD handled. 9 D1 seniors alone is not watered down in the slightest. Probably 20-25 D1 guys on that roster. They won’t play us now so you can call it even. MD has reached out multiple times and heard nothing back. Why are you a gorman fan if you’re from Georgia? You always have a lot to say about gorman, have ties to Vegas? 

I just wanna hear Sammy's excuse as to why to the "OIAG" team waited until BG graduated the 17 class before playing them. Why was MD so willing and eager to play them then/now instead of when they were running the show from 2014-16? That's all. 

[CaliNorth]

3 hours ago, badrouter said:

I can't say there is any team that I would definitively favor over the 2017 MD team. But, there is a case to be made that they aren't as good as some may think.

As has been pointed out, the 2018 and 2019 teams should not be used to make a case for the 2017 team. That said, I am unconvinced the 2017 team was as good or better than 2019. And of course the 2019 team did not win a title (I've said I think they were considerably better-maybe 2 TDs- than the SJB team that knocked them off.)

The 2017 team won at home 35-21 over Gorman. But, Gorman lost at home to a 3-loss Miami Central team. So, while Gorman (and Central) were both really good, a 2-TD win at home over *that* Gorman team is not much in the context of all-time greatest teams. MD beat SJB by 10 points in the first match, but STA beat SJB by six points with one of its weakest teams in the last 18 years. They beat them more decisively in the 2nd game, but it's hard to discern which of the two games was the more accurate outcome. SJB losing to that STA team really weakens the case for MD and SJB.

If I had to pick a best MD team, I think I'd go with 2019.

Playing a first game of season on the road across the country, and losing to an inferior team , happens all the time at all levels of football . SJB would have killed STA if they played later . They dominated STA overall , but execution was lacking that night . So what .  The big thing for me is to see how they improved during the season . SJB was significantly down in 2017.  Since 2013 , SJB has had 2 seasons where they were not a tier one team , 2014 and 2017 . Top 10 was more like it . The QB controversy went on ,  it seemed, all season  in 2017 .  MD's best win that season was beating a down SJB . Gorman really struggled  early in the year also . Dela in SBG final was as bad a finish to a season for Spartans as any I have witnessed . They had absolutely no  offense , except for their 2 rbs, Robinson and Garrett . Both were injured the last 2 games of season , though Robinson tried to run on a broken foot in SBG ,  coughing up the football 3 times . The qb play was the worst I have  ever seen  for Dela. Wasn't the kid's fault . He was a DB trying to step in because they had no one to run the veer . Passing game was zilch .Dela's secondary that season was also among the worst ever for Spartans . Dela faded bad that season. The reason I bring this up, is , how can you claim to be the greatest when you didn't beat a tier 1 team all year . MD was excellent , no doubt, but to me , I think the 2016 end of season SJB was just as good as MD 2017 . Same with 2018 and 2019 MD .  Then you can ask the same about 2008-2010 STA , 2009-2011 DBP , 2012-2015 Allen , DLS streak teams, etc.  

If I had to pick the best MD team imop , I would say 2017 and 2018 .   MD in 2019 had a good, solid , but not great Defense . I picked up on that very early . Their offense however, was better than 2017 and 2018 imop.

[CaliNorth]

2 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

*Note in the 2017 game vs. BG, JT Daniels was coming off s sore rotator cuff and was on a very limited pitch count.  Amon Ra did not play either.  (end of note).  MD defense was all over BG, who got a couple lucky break away TD's but could not drive the ball at all

But that was what BG was in 2017.  Big plays . They didn't methodically march down the field on anyone . They struggled with a new qb in 2017 and also in 2018 .  They were significantly better as those seasons wore on  though

[Mag44]

26 minutes ago, FootballGuy said:

I just wanna hear Sammy's excuse as to why to the "OIAG" team waited until BG graduated the 17 class before playing them. Why was MD so willing and eager to play them then/now instead of when they were running the show from 2014-16? That's all. 

Very hard to time schedules..,,,,Not as easy as many think...

[badrouter]

2 hours ago, HurricaneNick said:

Watered down. Lmao. We’ve already gone over this.
They had the #1 Linebacker in the country (USC). #1 Tight end in the country (Miami). The #2 Quarterback in the country(UCLA). They also had 2 kids sign with Michigan state. 1 kid sign with Tennessee. 1 kid sign with TCU. 1 kid sign with Washington. 1 kid sign with Nevada. That’s only their senior class. A bunch more D1 guys on that gorman team MD handled. 9 D1 seniors alone is not watered down in the slightest. Probably 20-25 D1 guys on that roster. They won’t play us now so you can call it even. MD has reached out multiple times and heard nothing back. Why are you a gorman fan if you’re from Georgia? You always have a lot to say about gorman, have ties to Vegas? 

Let's not get ridiculous here. 🤡

[badrouter]

52 minutes ago, CaliNorth said:

Playing a first game of season on the road across the country, and losing to an inferior team , happens all the time at all levels of football . SJB would have killed STA if they played later . They dominated STA overall , but execution was lacking that night . So what .  The big thing for me is to see how they improved during the season . SJB was significantly down in 2017.  Since 2013 , SJB has had 2 seasons where they were not a tier one team , 2014 and 2017 . Top 10 was more like it . The QB controversy went on ,  it seemed, all season  in 2017 .  MD's best win that season was beating a down SJB . Gorman really struggled  early in the year also . Dela in SBG final was as bad a finish to a season for Spartans as any I have witnessed . They had absolutely no  offense , except for their 2 rbs, Robinson and Garrett . Both were injured the last 2 games of season , though Robinson tried to run on a broken foot in SBG ,  coughing up the football 3 times . The qb play was the worst I have  ever seen  for Dela. Wasn't the kid's fault . He was a DB trying to step in because they had no one to run the veer . Passing game was zilch .Dela's secondary that season was also among the worst ever for Spartans . Dela faded bad that season. The reason I bring this up, is , how can you claim to be the greatest when you didn't beat a tier 1 team all year . MD was excellent , no doubt, but to me , I think the 2016 end of season SJB was just as good as MD 2017 . Same with 2018 and 2019 MD .  Then you can ask the same about 2008-2010 STA , 2009-2011 DBP , 2012-2015 Allen , DLS streak teams, etc.  

If I had to pick the best MD team imop , I would say 2017 and 2018 .   MD in 2019 had a good, solid , but not great Defense . I picked up on that very early . Their offense however, was better than 2017 and 2018 imop.

This is one of the more overused rhetorical tricks in the book. How much of it was true improvement, and how much was just not having to play stout defenses later in the season?

[HurricaneNick]

5 minutes ago, badrouter said:

Let's not get ridiculous here. 🤡

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&Position=DUAL 
 

🤡 

[CaliNorth]

6 minutes ago, badrouter said:

This is one of the more overused rhetorical tricks in the book. How much of it was true improvement, and how much was just not having to play stout defenses later in the season?

Following SJB as you do , They seem to me to get it together later in season rather than early . Offenses usually lag behind defenses early on .  2017, after deciding on a qb., SJB  did get better, but not tier 1 better . I don't know about STA that year, but watching that first game between the 2 , SJB was clearly the better team . 

[FootballGuy]

59 minutes ago, Mag44 said:

Very hard to time schedules..,,,,Not as easy as many think...

BG (from what I hear) was always looking for games during that 3 year run. You mean to tell me MD wasn't available AT ALL during that span? Especially in 16

[badrouter]

45 minutes ago, HurricaneNick said:

https://247sports.com/Season/2018-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&Position=DUAL 
 

🤡

He's not among the top 50 QBs in that class in reality. And he had little to no playing experience at the time he played MD.

[HurricaneNick]

5 hours ago, badrouter said:

He's not among the top 50 QBs in that class in reality.

What in the world what a dog shit take 😂 He’s a little over 100 yards away from passing Troy aikman on UCLA’s all time passing list. He’ll get drafted in the early rounds this next year. These guys had him potentially in the top 10 QB’s of LAST YEARS draft class. If he gets the accuracy down and makes better decisions with the ball he’ll go early. 
https://www.bluechipscouting.com/articles/2020/7/13/planting-the-flag-dorian-thompson-has-tools-to-be-top-10-qb-in-2021-class 

Kid got screwed by the pandemic only getting 6 games. There are 50 quarterbacks in the 2018 class better than him? Absurd. 

[HurricaneNick]

⬇️

 

prostyle and dual threat rankings. He’s listed at #4. He’s performed better than half of the top 11 thus far. 

[Sammyswordsman]

3 hours ago, CaliNorth said:

Playing a first game of season on the road across the country, and losing to an inferior team , happens all the time at all levels of football . SJB would have killed STA if they played later . They dominated STA overall , but execution was lacking that night . So what .  The big thing for me is to see how they improved during the season . SJB was significantly down in 2017.  Since 2013 , SJB has had 2 seasons where they were not a tier one team , 2014 and 2017 . Top 10 was more like it . The QB controversy went on ,  it seemed, all season  in 2017 .  MD's best win that season was beating a down SJB . Gorman really struggled  early in the year also . Dela in SBG final was as bad a finish to a season for Spartans as any I have witnessed . They had absolutely no  offense , except for their 2 rbs, Robinson and Garrett . Both were injured the last 2 games of season , though Robinson tried to run on a broken foot in SBG ,  coughing up the football 3 times . The qb play was the worst I have  ever seen  for Dela. Wasn't the kid's fault . He was a DB trying to step in because they had no one to run the veer . Passing game was zilch .Dela's secondary that season was also among the worst ever for Spartans . Dela faded bad that season. The reason I bring this up, is , how can you claim to be the greatest when you didn't beat a tier 1 team all year . MD was excellent , no doubt, but to me , I think the 2016 end of season SJB was just as good as MD 2017 . Same with 2018 and 2019 MD .  Then you can ask the same about 2008-2010 STA , 2009-2011 DBP , 2012-2015 Allen , DLS streak teams, etc.  

If I had to pick the best MD team imop , I would say 2017 and 2018 .   MD in 2019 had a good, solid , but not great Defense . I picked up on that very early . Their offense however, was better than 2017 and 2018 imop.

You are being way to harsh on MD Schedule.

Another team that is talked very highly about is 2008 STA who had an OOS win over Elder, albeit they trailed 0-10 early, and their only sig win was Lakeland (which = SJB for MD).   Other than that MD had a much tougher schedule.

The 2017 MD team ran a schedule consisting of 5 teams that lost only 1 other game or less other than to MD.  Including 2 other states champions.

[Mag44]

9 hours ago, FootballGuy said:

BG (from what I hear) was always looking for games during that 3 year run. You mean to tell me MD wasn't available AT ALL during that span? Especially in 16

Conflicting dates...??  I've see how hard this can beby talking to an AD at Bosco when they were really good.......

[Atticus Finch]

19 hours ago, HurricaneNick said:

They won’t play us now so you can call it even. MD has reached out multiple times and heard nothing back. 

But why would Mater Dei want to play them now?

[Atticus Finch]

10 hours ago, CaliNorth said:

 I don't know about STA that year, but watching that first game between the 2 , SJB was clearly the better team . 

Agreed but STA's defense was so good that they could beat St. John Bosco anytime they played.

 

[Atticus Finch]

7 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

You are being way to harsh on MD Schedule.

I, on the other hand, was totally accurate hence why you cower in fear and avoid responding.

[Atticus Finch]

7 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Another team that is talked very highly about is 2008 STA who had an OOS win over Elder, albeit they trailed 0-10 early, and their only sig win was Lakeland (which = SJB for MD).   Other than that MD had a much tougher schedule.

Nobody compared 2017 Mater Dei to anybody else.

This thread is about that team and that team alone.