What should universities do about systemic racism?

[Atticus Finch]

3 minutes ago, badrouter said:

If extremist views are also the dominant views, then it is totally appropriate to reference those views in an argument on the topic. 

They're not the dominant view though.

You're just totally obsessed with outside-the-mainstream views.

[Belly Bob]

4 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

Again, the Asian experience in this country is totally unrelated to the ancestors of slaves.

You keep trying to pound this square peg into the round hole.

I think that's what you're doing.

History is part of the system. So, Asians don't "just" outperform other groups, like you said. They must be doing better because of some advantage they got from history, in which case it should be corrected for. 

You must not have spent enough time in these sorts of discussions with social critics. 

[Atticus Finch]

2 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

I think that's what you're doing.

You're clearly the one obsessed with this Asian narrative that is both silly and irrelevant to the experience of African-Americans.

[Atticus Finch]

2 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

So, Asians don't "just" outperform other groups, like you said. They must be doing better because of some advantage they got from history, in which case it should be corrected for.  

If so it's an advantage that was gained outside this country many, many centuries ago.

Which, again, makes it unrelated to anything that we're talking about.

[badrouter]

3 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

They're not the dominant view though.

You're just totally obsessed with outside-the-mainstream views.

The views of Black Lives Matter, Ibram Kendi, Ta-nahesi Coates etc are not mainstream?

[Belly Bob]

7 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

You're clearly the one obsessed with this Asian narrative that is both silly and irrelevant to the experience of African-Americans.

No, I never suggested that it was.

I'm trying to explain to you how social criticism works and why Asians have become increasingly vocal in their criticism of social critics. 

[Atticus Finch]

Just now, Belly Bob said:

No, I never suggested that it was.

Then why do you keep talking about it?

[Atticus Finch]

Just now, Belly Bob said:

I'm trying to explain to how social criticism works and why Asians have become increasing vocal in their criticism of social critics. 

OK.

I guess this is interesting in a totally unrelated way.

[Belly Bob]

1 minute ago, Atticus Finch said:

If so it's an advantage that was gained outside this country many, many centuries ago.

Which, again, makes it unrelated to anything that we're talking about.

No, white people gained an advantage outside this country too. They brought it here from Europe. That's not irrelevant at all to understanding systemic injustice. 

You don't know how to be a social critic.

Are you familiar with the ideas of Foucault? 

[badrouter]

Or Robin DiAngelo?

 

[Belly Bob]

22 hours ago, 15yds4gibberish said:

@Belly Bob

Happy Father's Day.

Happy Father's Day to you as well. I hope you had a good one.

I, myself, had a great day. I played with the kids in the morning and then I had a really nice bottle of red and a beef steak with my wife, which for me is like heaven on earth.

A proper reply is coming. I'm working on something else at the moment, and if I replied now, it would be rushed. 

[Atticus Finch]

16 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

No, white people gained an advantage outside this country too. They brought it here from Europe. That's not irrelevant at all to understanding systemic injustice. 

*This* country, the one we're in right now and the one about which this conversation is about, was founded for the benefit of white Europeans who have received the cascading benefits of this fact for generations.

Asians did not build this country for themselves and their progeny. They do no benefit from systemic racism nor did they build the playing field on which this game is played.

This is not difficult to understand if you're a serious person. As long as you keep pushing this Asian narrative you don't qualify as serious.

[Troll]

13 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said:

*This* country, the one we're in right now and the one about which this conversation is about, was founded for the benefit of white Europeans who have received the cascading benefits of this fact for generations. <<<everyone.  👍Slavery had existed for THOUSANDS of years, was global at the time, and it only took one of the youngest countries 100 years to rid the country of it, as one of the leaders in this realm. You could be thankful or you could be bitter, but to think your 💩 way of placing blame is what everyone should be thinking, is  moronic 🤪

This is not difficult to understand if you're a serious person. <<See above 🤓

As long as you keep pushing this Asian narrative you don't qualify as serious.<<no 💩 approval is required, as you are not some qualifying judge 🤣

Hope this helps 👌

[Belly Bob]

3 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

*This* country, the one we're in right now and the one about which this conversation is about, was founded for the benefit of white Europeans who have received the cascading benefits of this fact for generations.

But white Europeans were not able to found a country for themselves because they "just" outperformed other groups. It was owing to systemic injustice.

Whether one's privilege comes from inside or outside the founding of a particular institution is irrelevant. 

3 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

Asians did not build this country for themselves and their progeny. 

Many Asian Americans would disagree.

http://www.cacagny.org/about-us.html

3 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

They do no benefit from systemic racism nor did they build the playing field on which this game is played.

Many antiracists would disagree. 

The argument that America was founded by white Europeans for the benefit of white Europeans, even if sound, does not imply that some groups like Asians and men have been given advantages in this country that other groups like black people and women haven not been given.

You yourself have suggested several times in this thread that Asians have had a different experience in this country than black people. Put your social critic hat on and think through the implications of that. 

[Atticus Finch]

1 minute ago, Belly Bob said:

Many Asian Americans would disagree. 

One trick pony Bob.

That's gotta be your new nickname.

Obsessed with dropping Asians into a discussion that has nothing to do with them.

[Atticus Finch]

3 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

Many antiracist would disagree. 

Great.

Take it up with them.

[Atticus Finch]

3 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

You yourself have suggested several times in this thread that Asians have had a different experience in this country than black people. Put your social critic hat on and think through the implications of that. 

The implications are exactly what I've implied.

[Belly Bob]

On 6/17/2021 at 9:52 PM, Bormio said:

All we do is talk about race and oppression.  I used to think more dialogue was good, I no longer do.  We need to stop talking about this.  It is hurting everyone.  It hurts minorities especially.  You turn off people who are inclined to support your goals.  You create less opportunity, not more. You create more division, not less.  When everything is examined through the prism of race, people stop listening.  I understand people feel they have justified issues.  But at some point, they have to come to grips with the best way to achieve their aims.

 

19 hours ago, badrouter said:

Or Robin DiAngelo?

According to Harvard sociology professor Frank Dubbin, who has been studying 30 years of anti-bias training, there is little evidence that it works and evidence that it may have adverse effects, especially on black people.

A recent meta-study published in the Annual Review of Psychology concludes that "as the study quality goes up, the effect size dwindles."

On the available evidence, it appears that anti-racism training doesn't help and might hurt. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/15/magazine/white-fragility-robin-diangelo.html

[Atticus Finch]

13 minutes ago, Belly Bob said:

On the available evidence, it appears that anti-racism training doesn't help and might hurt. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/15/magazine/white-fragility-robin-diangelo.html

There's also some evidence of the same effect with affirmative action.

[badrouter]

2 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

There's also some evidence of the same effect with affirmative action.

But the two are not one and the same. 

[Atticus Finch]

13 minutes ago, badrouter said:

But the two are not one and the same. 

I didn't say that they were.

[badrouter]

[badrouter]

[Troll]

 

[Troll]