Climate Science as a Religion

[Mickeybern]

 I am a firm believer that everyone has a religion (the human condition requires it). To me the modern environmentalism movement is a religion masquerading as a political movement. It is a religion (as is most Progressivism) of the Godless securalized college educated White.  Patrick Moore who was one of the founders of Geenpeace left the movement 20 years ago over what he claimed it's strident anti-capitalist authoritarian leadership. This movement has all the markings of an organized religion: 1)dogma (you can't argue or discuss) or as they say "Trust the Science" 2)A large and well funded Bureaucracy 3) Clergy (instead of Priests and Ministers we now have Scientists and Doctors) and we are told they are beyond reproach 4)punishment (don't toe the line and you are shunned or canceled as a Non-Believer or irredeemable 5) Salvation (those that believe and follow the catechism are told they are morally superior) or as you eluded to in a previous post "On the right side of history") and finally 6) the complete inability of it's followers to even think about the possible avarice and corruption that all of these supposedly well meaning humans could be partaking. 

I have no problem with science or facts but the quest for facts thru the application of Science needs to be tested and yes debated. These are humans that we are listening to, they make mistakes and are open to temptation. Scientists that have got in the way of this movement/religion have lost their jobs and careers. Michael Moore (rich white socialist) got his documentary canceled because it dared question the validity of what the movement claims to be true. Since we like facts so much here are a few: 1.7 billion people will be added to this world in the next 20 years (mostly in poor countries) and we will burning the same amount of fossil fuels in 2060 than we are now. Good Luck with all the virtual signaling yard signs but nothing is going to change either politically or economically until the technology catches up (and we are not even close).

 

[HawgGoneIt]

Damn interesting take that is going to require a lot of thought to discuss. 

@Mickeybern, I hope you don't mind that I moved this and created a topic from it. It just seemed too interesting to kill outright. Great post even though I don't think I agree with all the points. 

 

[HawgGoneIt]

I'll start from the point of there really can't be much to argue about whether a warming planet is a problem imo. The debate has to go into whether we think as humans we can curtail it by changing our behavior and extend our potential futures on this planet for any length of time. Also it has to touch on whether or not the economic changes required are worth it, if, nobody can definitively say we can curtail it. 

It seems like this issue follows along with most issues as it pertains to science vs. religion. A good many people choose to believe in myth and until something really hits them in their proverbial balls, they just won't get it. 

In reality climate change and human influence upon it is an issue that is moving so slowly that the myth believers won't buy it until its far too late. I see it similar to the covid issue we had where people refused to accept it as a real thing and slowly morphed their belief as people around them died. It wasn't a decade ago that most would argue climate change isn't even real. Now they've morphed mostly into other reasons to fight about it all. The first ice age/extinction level event was believed to have occurred due to the atmosphere become polluted by debris from meteor strikes and apparently happened relatively quickly in the grand scheme of time. This one, we are potentially the meteor that is polluting the atmosphere. 

 

Some people want some level of action to attempt to affect what they see as a threat to humanity, and believe there is a chance something can be done in line with that, albeit a worldwide solution collectively. 

Seems like others "the actual religious types" believe we need to just let it play out. It's not that serious today, and nothing we can do about it anyway because it's just the will of God. 

I believe the latter will get slapped in the face with reality later, and their belief in the science will morph but it will be much too late. 

In the meantime, we'll all let them keep us divided in every way imaginable while they fleece us and look for their escape from a dying planet. We see the billionaire space race going on now. They show us stuff in their right or left hand while they're reaching into our pockets with the other and we're too busy arguing about nonsense to be bothered by it. 

The entire thing may be inevitable no matter what. Another ice age. Sucked into a black hole. Whatever. In general, keeping everyone busy collectively maintains the peace, as we know it, for much longer, else we begin killing each other long before the planet kicks us off. 

At any rate, most likely none of us on here typing stuff out today will be around when this "glacial movement" finally reaches its end. That makes it very easy to just say "fuck it." 

 

[HawgGoneIt]

I'll ease out the back now and pray to some solar panels and ev charging stations. 🙏 

 

It's all a construct of man. Religion. Science. Politics. To question one for being a human construct without questioning them all is interesting. 

[Mickeybern]

12 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said:

I'll start from the point of there really can't be much to argue about whether a warming planet is a problem imo. The debate has to go into whether we think as humans we can curtail it by changing our behavior and extend our potential futures on this planet for any length of time. Also it has to touch on whether or not the economic changes required are worth it, if, nobody can definitively say we can curtail it. 

It seems like this issue follows along with most issues as it pertains to science vs. religion. A good many people choose to believe in myth and until something really hits them in their proverbial balls, they just won't get it. 

In reality climate change and human influence upon it is an issue that is moving so slowly that the myth believers won't buy it until its far too late. I see it similar to the covid issue we had where people refused to accept it as a real thing and slowly morphed their belief as people around them died. It wasn't a decade ago that most would argue climate change isn't even real. Now they've morphed mostly into other reasons to fight about it all. The first ice age/extinction level event was believed to have occurred due to the atmosphere become polluted by debris from meteor strikes and apparently happened relatively quickly in the grand scheme of time. This one, we are potentially the meteor that is polluting the atmosphere. 

 

Some people want some level of action to attempt to affect what they see as a threat to humanity, and believe there is a chance something can be done in line with that, albeit a worldwide solution collectively. 

Seems like others "the actual religious types" believe we need to just let it play out. It's not that serious today, and nothing we can do about it anyway because it's just the will of God. 

I believe the latter will get slapped in the face with reality later, and their belief in the science will morph but it will be much too late. 

In the meantime, we'll all let them keep us divided in every way imaginable while they fleece us and look for their escape from a dying planet. We see the billionaire space race going on now. They show us stuff in their right or left hand while they're reaching into our pockets with the other and we're too busy arguing about nonsense to be bothered by it. 

The entire thing may be inevitable no matter what. Another ice age. Sucked into a black hole. Whatever. In general, keeping everyone busy collectively maintains the peace, as we know it, for much longer, else we begin killing each other long before the planet kicks us off. 

At any rate, most likely none of us on here typing stuff out today will be around when this "glacial movement" finally reaches its end. That makes it very easy to just say "fuck it." 

 

The problem is we were told that ice age was coming all through the 1970's, we were told about the Population Bomb by Dr. Paul Ehrlich calling for worldwide mass famine in the 1980's (population exploded and extreme poverty has plummeted globally...Those on the environmental left don't want us to do a cost/benefit analyses on all these programs that we were are being told are going to supposedly help mitigate this catastrophe (after all can we really put a price tag on saving the world)  it is an open ended fleecing of the treasury. Forget the Environmental lobby, it's the billionaire class of Bloomberg,Branson,Fink and their lot that control all the renewable companies and infrastructure and are gorging themselves on government subsidies and pushing for government regulation of fossil fuels in order to make their inferior product cost competitive. The developing world (where much of the globe's population resides) will never accept these draconian measures being drawn up by the US and Europe. All this is rich people talking to each other. It's become a political farce and an economic fleecing.

[DBP66]

1 minute ago, Mickeybern said:

The problem is we were told that ice age was coming all through the 1970's, we were told about the Population Bomb by Dr. Paul Ehrlich calling for worldwide mass famine in the 1980's (population exploded and extreme poverty has plummeted globally...Those on the environmental left don't want us to do a cost/benefit analyses on all these programs that we were are being told are going to supposedly help mitigate this catastrophe (after all can we really put a price tag on saving the world)  it is an open ended fleecing of the treasury. Forget the Environmental lobby, it's the billionaire class of Bloomberg,Branson,Fink and their lot that control all the renewable companies and infrastructure and are gorging themselves on government subsidies and pushing for government regulation of fossil fuels in order to make their inferior product cost competitive. The developing world (where much of the globe's population resides) will never accept these draconian measures being drawn up by the US and Europe. All this is rich people talking to each other. It's become a political farce and an economic fleecing.

you got the argument from the right down....economics vs. risk of being wrong. Most climate scientist agree the world is warming and weather patterns are changing. You just had 13 tornados in N.J. during that last storm!?!...that's crazy and should open your eyes IMO. We only get one shot at getting this right...why not error on the side of caution vs. being at an economic disadvantage....all the money in the world can't save any country from global warming. We all sink and swim together.

[HawgGoneIt]

Just now, Mickeybern said:

The problem is we were told that ice age was coming all through the 1970's, we were told about the Population Bomb by Dr. Paul Ehrlich calling for worldwide mass famine in the 1980's (population exploded and extreme poverty has plummeted globally...Those on the environmental left don't want us to do a cost/benefit analyses on all these programs that we were are being told are going to supposedly help mitigate this catastrophe (after all can we really put a price tag on saving the world)  it is an open ended fleecing of the treasury. Forget the Environmental lobby, it's the billionaire class of Bloomberg,Branson,Fink and their lot that control all the renewable companies and infrastructure and are gorging themselves on government subsidies and pushing for government regulation of fossil fuels in order to make their inferior product cost competitive. The developing world (where much of the globe's population resides) will never accept these draconian measures being drawn up by the US and Europe. All this is rich people talking to each other. It's become a political farce and an economic fleecing.

I think we can agree here.

For me though, it becomes pick your billionaire poison, right? 

If it's not Bloomberg, Branson and Fink gobbling it all up, it's, Swiger, The Vanguard Group, Standard Oil or etc. Which group do we just love getting into our pockets the most? The one's that we've been letting do it since the 1800s or these relative newbies? Do any of them actually have our best interest in mind? I doubt it. 

So I do totally agree. I watch how the government subsidizes farmers, poor people, billionaire space races, big pharma, oil companies, etc., and it always answers my question about why people fight so hard to get into office. Lol 

 

 

[RedZone]

1 hour ago, HawgGoneIt said:

In reality climate change and human influence upon it is an issue that is moving so slowly that the myth believers won't buy it until its far too late.

This!

 

[RedZone]

This country is only 245 years old.........anyone that thinks it will look the same in 50-100 years just isn't thinking.

We will be responsible for some of that change while most of it is totally out of our hands.

Ignoring both for the sake of ignoring it is foolish.

 

[Nolebull813]

Do your part!!!

 

[Troll]

13 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

Damn interesting take that is going to require a lot of thought 

 

12 hours ago, HawgGoneIt said:

I'll start from the point of there really can't be much to argue about whether a warming planet is a problem imo. The debate has to go into whether we think as humans we can curtail it by changing our behavior and extend our potential futures on this planet for any length of time. Also it has to touch on whether or not the economic changes required are worth it, if, nobody can definitively say we can curtail it. 

It seems like this issue follows along with most issues as it pertains to science vs. religion. A good many people choose to believe in myth and until something really hits them in their proverbial balls, they just won't get it. 

In reality climate change and human influence upon it is an issue that is moving so slowly that the myth believers won't buy it until its far too late. I see it similar to the covid issue we had where people refused to accept it as a real thing and slowly morphed their belief as people around them died. It wasn't a decade ago that most would argue climate change isn't even real. Now they've morphed mostly into other reasons to fight about it all. The first ice age/extinction level event was believed to have occurred due to the atmosphere become polluted by debris from meteor strikes and apparently happened relatively quickly in the grand scheme of time. This one, we are potentially the meteor that is polluting the atmosphere. 

 

Some people want some level of action to attempt to affect what they see as a threat to humanity, and believe there is a chance something can be done in line with that, albeit a worldwide solution collectively. 

Seems like others "the actual religious types" believe we need to just let it play out. It's not that serious today, and nothing we can do about it anyway because it's just the will of God. 

I believe the latter will get slapped in the face with reality later, and their belief in the science will morph but it will be much too late. 

In the meantime, we'll all let them keep us divided in every way imaginable while they fleece us and look for their escape from a dying planet. We see the billionaire space race going on now. They show us stuff in their right or left hand while they're reaching into our pockets with the other and we're too busy arguing about nonsense to be bothered by it. 

The entire thing may be inevitable no matter what. Another ice age. Sucked into a black hole. Whatever. In general, keeping everyone busy collectively maintains the peace, as we know it, for much longer, else we begin killing each other long before the planet kicks us off. 

 

As far your cost/benefit analysis... it does not work...15k per year per person (60k for a family of four) for the next 30 years, for the benefit of a projected 1/2 degree Celsius reduction.  Worth it? 

That won’t avoid any catastrophe anyhoo 

and if you need to know the actual projections on how the catastrophe will unfold you can read up on your Einstein catastrophism 🤓 ...you know...the original catastrophist. 

Current projections place the events hitting in the mid 2030’s. NOT talking propaganda here, we talking ACTUAL science now. LoL   But you will never get there if you even entertain the idea that man is in the drivers seat...

... because he is not 

⛄️