Mater Dei "Mini Dynasty" Team Comparisons

[HurricaneNick]

6 hours ago, MD87 said:

@HurricaneNick, @Bodysurf, @Adam_MD_Alum, @Eddyr2 if you guys have time and could look at the spreadsheet and let me know if you see any mistakes or anyone who got left off, I'd appreciate it.

Great stuff. No mistakes from my first look at it. As surf said, thank you for a great resource! 

[Ararar]

4 hours ago, SoCalFball said:

How many transfers on that list? Lol 

Are transfers illegal now ?

[Adam_MD_Alum]

22 hours ago, Bodysurf said:

I must say I’m impressed. Thanks for the great resource.

Must have been a slow day at work or you are trying to avoid doing work around the house 😂
 

@MD87From a dynasty perspective, excellent work at capturing a big chunk of the key player stats over time. I’d love to see 2 addl rows at the top (under total stars) totaling stars by offense and defense each year.

If the point is to also make the case for best team ever or (best def/off) within a dynasty period, gotta factor for Seniority/depth  

• Experience: # of Senior starters graduating
• Star weighting: 4* Sr comparable to a 5* Jr imo
• o/d-line-depth: hard to measure but important

Personally I think this years MD defense is it’s best ever because of above factors and I’d be curious to see what the numbers say

…curious what the other alums have to say @Eddyr2@HurricaneNick 

[Eddyr2]

On 12/22/2021 at 8:32 AM, MD87 said:

@HurricaneNick, @Bodysurf, @Adam_MD_Alum, @Eddyr2 if you guys have time and could look at the spreadsheet and let me know if you see any mistakes or anyone who got left off, I'd appreciate it.

i come to this site to get way from spreadsheet...76% of my job is excel macros...

[Eddyr2]

21 hours ago, SoCalFball said:

How many transfers on that list? Lol 

about as many as Cen10...

 

[Eddyr2]

19 hours ago, OldTerrapin said:

When programs like these go down it is almost always an implosion from the inside. De-escalation, De-emphasizing,  taking things in a different direction, going back to the mission and purpose of the school are the types of things you will hear. It will happen. always does it's just a matter of when.

that already happened 20 years ago...MD was a massive national program in the 90's that started slipping in 2000...2015 when the "JT Crew" showed up is when things turned around...in fact JT was the player who made MD the school of choice for alot of elite SoCal talent...he was huge down here in the U14/7on world so guys followed him...he wasnt recuited but wanted to go to MD since he was 5...MD fans owe alot to him...to bad USC and George did him dirty...

[dntn31]

1 hour ago, Eddyr2 said:

that already happened 20 years ago...MD was a massive national program in the 90's that started slipping in 2000...2015 when the "JT Crew" showed up is when things turned around...in fact JT was the player who made MD the school of choice for alot of elite SoCal talent...he was huge down here in the U14/7on world so guys followed him...he wasnt recuited but wanted to go to MD since he was 5...MD fans owe alot to him...to bad USC and George did him dirty...

 

It actually started a little before that. After Mater Dei missed the playoffs in 2011 and Rollinson saw what Negro was doing over at SJB, Rollinson went to Negro to talk about how to run a successful HSFB program in the modern age of the internet, youth camps, social media and where practically every game is streamed. Rollinson is on the record saying as much. The rest is, well as they say, history....

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

1 hour ago, dntn31 said:

 

It actually started a little before that. After Mater Dei missed the playoffs in 2011 and Rollinson saw what Negro was doing over at SJB, Rollinson went to Negro to talk about how to run a successful HSFB program in the modern age of the internet, youth camps, social media and where practically every game is streamed. Rollinson is on the record saying as much. The rest is, well as they say, history....

 

2 hours ago, Eddyr2 said:

that already happened 20 years ago...MD was a massive national program in the 90's that started slipping in 2000...2015 when the "JT Crew" showed up is when things turned around...in fact JT was the player who made MD the school of choice for alot of elite SoCal talent...he was huge down here in the U14/7on world so guys followed him...he wasnt recuited but wanted to go to MD since he was 5...MD fans owe alot to him...to bad USC and George did him dirty...

How’s Georgia doing JT dirty?

bgw

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

1 hour ago, dntn31 said:

 

It actually started a little before that. After Mater Dei missed the playoffs in 2011 and Rollinson saw what Negro was doing over at SJB, Rollinson went to Negro to talk about how to run a successful HSFB program in the modern age of the internet, youth camps, social media and where practically every game is streamed. Rollinson is on the record saying as much. The rest is, well as they say, history....

You make it sound like Rollo and Negro sauntered over to the Starbucks and Negro pulled out the blueprint for success. 
 

bgw

[dntn31]

11 minutes ago, BUFORDGAWOLVES said:

You make it sound like Rollo and Negro sauntered over to the Starbucks and Negro pulled out the blueprint for success. 
 

bgw

Could well be, but it more than likely involved alcohol and view of the Pacific Ocean.

[Eddyr2]

3 hours ago, dntn31 said:

 

It actually started a little before that. After Mater Dei missed the playoffs in 2011 and Rollinson saw what Negro was doing over at SJB, Rollinson went to Negro to talk about how to run a successful HSFB program in the modern age of the internet, youth camps, social media and where practically every game is streamed. Rollinson is on the record saying as much. The rest is, well as they say, history....

the "ground up" post 2011 rebuild was the starting point of the turn around but JT going to MD was the turning point 

[MD87]

7 hours ago, Adam_MD_Alum said:

@MD87From a dynasty perspective, excellent work at capturing a big chunk of the key player stats over time. I’d love to see 2 addl rows at the top (under total stars) totaling stars by offense and defense each year.

If the point is to also make the case for best team ever or (best def/off) within a dynasty period, gotta factor for Seniority/depth  

• Experience: # of Senior starters graduating
• Star weighting: 4* Sr comparable to a 5* Jr imo
• o/d-line-depth: hard to measure but important

Personally I think this years MD defense is it’s best ever because of above factors and I’d be curious to see what the numbers say

…curious what the other alums have to say @Eddyr2@HurricaneNick 

Totally agree with everything you wrote.  If I had wanted to get really technical, I should have (if it's even possible to track down such info), on the spreadsheet, made sure that the number of stars a player had, was accurate based on the year (as you wrote: "star weighting").  Players will sometimes gain or lose a star over time, and I wish I had the data to incorporate that information into the spreadsheet.  

Excellent suggestion about the additional rows for total offense and defense stars.  Rather than add them both to the top, I added offense above the offensive positions, and defense above the defensive positions.  Fascinating to note that we were very offense-heavy in 2016 and 2017, and very defense-heavy the past two seasons.

[Adam_MD_Alum]

16 hours ago, MD87 said:

Totally agree with everything you wrote.  If I had wanted to get really technical, I should have (if it's even possible to track down such info), on the spreadsheet, made sure that the number of stars a player had, was accurate based on the year (as you wrote: "star weighting").  Players will sometimes gain or lose a star over time, and I wish I had the data to incorporate that information into the spreadsheet.  

Excellent suggestion about the additional rows for total offense and defense stars.  Rather than add them both to the top, I added offense above the offensive positions, and defense above the defensive positions.  Fascinating to note that we were very offense-heavy in 2016 and 2017, and very defense-heavy the past two seasons.

Again, excellent work. I get this whole exercise is prob annoying/excruciating for any non-MD alum but I dig it. So, back to the whole best team ever and best O/D. 

Its hard to argue 2017 isn’t the best MD champ ever and perhaps the best MD Offense ever, despite 1 less star compared to 2016 runner-up. 2019 arguably had a better O, but feel like you gotta take down the Ship to make that claim..

…part of what makes claim of best MD Defense ever tougher to answer (yes, all subjective and I was there/saw the ‘96 team). I wish the 2000 team had a chance to compete. I say 2021 was best D ever…so deep, strong upfront, best LBs and best secondary (even w/ Domani injured). And, took down Natty.

Excluding 1st game w/ Servite, they stifled teams w/ prolific offenses, shutdown both run/pass…I’ve never seen a more dominant D than 2021, and they were Senior-heavy (definitely will miss those guys next year).  
 

 

[MD87]

On 12/24/2021 at 9:41 AM, Adam_MD_Alum said:

Again, excellent work. I get this whole exercise is prob annoying/excruciating for any non-MD alum but I dig it. So, back to the whole best team ever and best O/D. 

Its hard to argue 2017 isn’t the best MD champ ever and perhaps the best MD Offense ever, despite 1 less star compared to 2016 runner-up. 2019 arguably had a better O, but feel like you gotta take down the Ship to make that claim..

…part of what makes claim of best MD Defense ever tougher to answer (yes, all subjective and I was there/saw the ‘96 team). I wish the 2000 team had a chance to compete. I say 2021 was best D ever…so deep, strong upfront, best LBs and best secondary (even w/ Domani injured). And, took down Natty.

Excluding 1st game w/ Servite, they stifled teams w/ prolific offenses, shutdown both run/pass…I’ve never seen a more dominant D than 2021, and they were Senior-heavy (definitely will miss those guys next year).  
 

 

I really appreciate the feedback.  By the way, I realized that I neglected to include McGrath and Stonehouse in the overall star ranking for the '16 team, which increased that total to an incredible 96*.  As I'm going strictly by 247 (or Rivals if there's no 247 data), it's too bad that they didn't rate Lopez or Meyer as I have to imagine they'd both be in the 3* range, too.  Which would bolster the 2017-2021 teams' overall rating, but again, going strictly by the numbers.

[MD87]

On 12/24/2021 at 9:41 AM, Adam_MD_Alum said:

Again, excellent work. I get this whole exercise is prob annoying/excruciating for any non-MD alum but I dig it. So, back to the whole best team ever and best O/D. 

Its hard to argue 2017 isn’t the best MD champ ever and perhaps the best MD Offense ever, despite 1 less star compared to 2016 runner-up. 2019 arguably had a better O, but feel like you gotta take down the Ship to make that claim..

…part of what makes claim of best MD Defense ever tougher to answer (yes, all subjective and I was there/saw the ‘96 team). I wish the 2000 team had a chance to compete. I say 2021 was best D ever…so deep, strong upfront, best LBs and best secondary (even w/ Domani injured). And, took down Natty.

Excluding 1st game w/ Servite, they stifled teams w/ prolific offenses, shutdown both run/pass…I’ve never seen a more dominant D than 2021, and they were Senior-heavy (definitely will miss those guys next year).  
 

 

Also realized I left Marceese off the spring '21 team, along with Terrance Caldwell, which shot that team up to 96*, tied with '16.  Also added Terrance to the all-time total (#73), and OL (#10), lists.

[Duckburghsfinest1987]

since MD and Bosco became the national powerhouses they are now, hasn't Bosco gotten more transfers than MD has?

[MD87]

17 hours ago, Duckburghsfinest1987 said:

since MD and Bosco became the national powerhouses they are now, hasn't Bosco gotten more transfers than MD has?

Wouldn't surprise me, but that research'll have to wait for another day. 😉

[MD87]

@HurricaneNick@Adam_MD_Alum @Bodysurf @Eddyr2 Gentlemen, the spreadsheet (click here) is now as complete as it reasonably can be for the moment.  For thoroughness, I went name by name on each roster and, in cases where there was a question whether a kid played on varsity that particular year, I checked their hudl videos.  Some were judgment calls, of course, but I generally left off "starred" kids who only played during garbage time during their earlier seasons on varsity.  In other words, if you were a starter or played regularly before garbage time, you were considered part of that season's team.

Needless to say, this past season's team's rankings are not set in stone, as we all know a number of those guys (Tanner Williams, Ajon, Jordon and a bunch of OL and DL guys) will get their stars (and some guys (DeAndre, Aydin, Zabien, et al) may well get a 5th star), at which point I'll update the spreadsheet.  To reiterate a point I made earlier, I wish I had been keeping track of the evolution of guys' star ratings so that I could rank them according to the number of stars they actually had during that season, rather than their final star ranking.  If you know where to find that info, please let me know.

It was interesting going back and discovering that I had left off guys that were only on the team one or two seasons, such as Titus Toler, Zion Alefosio, Syrr Barnes and Josh Lorick.  Because they ended up on other teams, I missed them the first time around.  I had also forgotten that Leutele started at MD, went to the Anaheim school, and then came back.

As you will  notice, I also added fields for number of 5 stars, 4 stars, etc on each team, and the number of "starred" players on each team.  A reminder, too, that I use gold, silver and bronze in most categories to make it easy to identify first, second and third in a particular category.

Lastly, you can click here for the ranked lists of all MD players during the mini-dynasty, and by position.  

Next project: expanding the spreadsheet to include the earlier years up until the beginning of the 247 era.  Stay tuned....

[Duckburghsfinest1987]

the wikipedia page for HS football national championships, it was not that long ago, i remember previously, for DLS, it said they had only won it 7 times, but the updated page says 12, and for MD, it says 6 instead of 5, which includes the 2020 season, and even one for LB Poly, which it says just once for them, in 2000:

High School Football National Championship - Wikipedia

[Adam_MD_Alum]

On 1/1/2022 at 6:17 PM, Duckburghsfinest1987 said:

the wikipedia page for HS football national championships, it was not that long ago, i remember previously, for DLS, it said they had only won it 7 times, but the updated page says 12, and for MD, it says 6 instead of 5, which includes the 2020 season, and even one for LB Poly, which it says just once for them, in 2000:

High School Football National Championship - Wikipedia

When I was at MD, USA Today ranking was the only one Rollo took seriously. Maxpreps was less big/National back then. I do feel like most of the algo-rankings are a lil tilted in CA-favor with 3 juggernauts in So-cal (Cent10, not one-time #3 Sprite/Anaheim). That said, easiest way to change that is to travel/step-up and prove your state is otherwise. 

[MD87]

@Adam_MD_Alum @HurricaneNick @Bodysurf @Eddyr2 MD homers, just an FYI that the spreadsheet has been updated with the new 247 data for the classes of '23 and '24.  Fall 2021 national champs is now complete, minus Jordon Davison, whose stars and number totals aren't out yet.  Fall 2021 sure to go up 4 or 5 points when that happens, though.  Spring 2021 and Fall 2021 are top 3 at every position during the mini dynasty, except for WR, which was strongest from 2016-2018, interestingly enough.  The last two teams have been ridiculously talented, as you will see.  Enjoy.

[CaliNorth]

On 12/22/2021 at 1:23 PM, On2whls said:

 

It’s not necessarily the volume of transfers but the quality.  The two star guys don’t make that much difference.  But, it’s not just transfers that have helped to shape the beast.  With the recent success of the program, it’s become much easier to influence athletes to apply to MD.  Some just want to join a winner and others are guided in that direction by folks not directly associated with the program, but whose interests are related.  Nobody is stupid enough to recruit actively, but the “passive” underground railway is very active.  As long as they don’t do anything CIF can charge them with, MD will continue to bolster their roster unabated.  Sooner or later though, someone’s gonna slip up.  It will have to be egregious and easily proven though, because MD has access to more than enough money to defend it’s practices.   

That is about the best summation of what is happening at MD that I have heard . Well said

[Ararar]

When Rollo retires the beast will probably be put down as well

[CaliNorth]

On 12/22/2021 at 2:46 PM, On2whls said:

To answer your first question no, not specific to that.  Mater Dei has long been tolerant to LGBT concerns and has allowed for gay students to flourish for some time now. It has more to do with unequal treatment of students for the same behaviors based on differences in social background and experience.  
 

Regarding academics, sure MD will continue to have students that excel.  But I know of four fairly recent graduates from my wife’s family that went directly into the workforce and are doing in truth, below average relative to their peers.   Those who graduated some time back, went directly to college and are doing better than average.  At no time in history do I think parents of non-gifted athletes have to consider the “value” of an MD education relative to public school education more than for the current state.  MD has become less the equivalent of let’s say a Stanford or Notre Dame, than an Oklahoma or Ohio State.  Now, to be fair, there are more TL students than ever opting for a couple years of junior college first, before attending university according to a friend I know that works at a local juco, so the trend is greater than just MD.

My experience with DLS lines up with your academic analysis of MD , and probably most Catholic schools . I think the reputation of being better academically better  than publics  ( I'm not talking inner city , ghetto schools ) is overrated . A Lot of times parents will want to send a child that is having difficulties academically or other wise , to the Catholic school for better discipline and a more hands on approach . At DLS I know that if you are failing , cutting class , etc., the admin will quickly be in touch with parents . Most publics , students get  get nowhere near the level of attention as they do at the Catholic . Students can  easily fall by the wayside at publics . Catholics thereby are able to get most of their students through graduation with a fairly good, well rounded education . 

However , if a student is motivated with typically " Both " parents behind him , and sports is not the only criteria , one can get a higher level of academic education at the publics , or at least as good as that of the catholic . They simply have more higher level classes that are offered at the public if one is motivated and wants to succeed at the higher levels . It all depends on the students desire to how much he wants to succeed academically . So for a lot of kids, maybe the Catholic is the way to go . For the more motivated and higher achievers , Publics may be the better path academically . 

[Bodysurf]

55 minutes ago, Ararar said:

When Rollo retires the beast will probably be put down as well

You must not know the alumni and fan base well if you think we are going to let that happen.