Covid Vaccine is killing Folks

[Belly Bob]

On 1/26/2023 at 9:33 AM, On2whls said:

This stuff doesn’t make any news.  Fines are issued, paid, life goes on. ↳

That's not exactly true.  

https://www.reuters.com/article/carefusion-settlement/carefusion-to-pay-40-mln-to-settle-u-s-kickbacks-lawsuit-idUKL2N0KJ1ZQ20140109

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilversel/2014/10/06/kickback-scandal-clouds-12-2b-bd-acquisition-of-carefusion/?sh=32c9f3fc614b

https://www.wbur.org/news/2014/01/27/patient-safety-scandal-carefusion

 

[Belly Bob]

12 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

When you make billions and billions, 44 million here or there is a drop in the bucket. 
  ↳

Pablo Escobar used to let the DEA “find” 20 tons of coke, just so he can push 200  tons with ease.  ↳

Maybe CareFusion made billions and billions on the deal. I don't know. But if I read @On2whls's post correctly, it sounded like the company had to adjust their 401k policy to make up for the losses, which suggests that they didn't make billions and billions on the kickbacks scheme.

Pablo's business model wasn't sustainable.

[Troll]

12 hours ago, Wildcat Will said:

It's not the knowing of things your referenced. Your ideology is flawed. You can't assume any thoughts or opinion is that of a conspiracy theory simply because it is an opinion.

when anyone has an "opinion" of a conspiracy

to which one is not privy,

that "opinion" is  quite simply a "theory" of said conspiracy.

and there is no "ideology" even involved, in your flawed logic confusion.

 

12 hours ago, Wildcat Will said:

The opinions of conspiracy theorist are still opinions, just a conglomerate of opinions that agree with a fringe thought that is not based in reality.

whether your "theories" are "correct" or not, makes no difference...

as they are still just "unproven" theories.

The "reality" is you do not know...

so pointing at others opinions as "incorrect", while ignoring actual reality,  is fairly stupid.

 

PS: Duh... 

 

[Troll]

11 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

With watchdog organizations, disgruntled executives, potential whistleblowers, not to mention the millions of internet sleuths like @Nolebull813 , @FreeBird, and @Troll, it wouldn't be very prudent for Pfizer to sell something which they themselves know is killing so many fetuses, babies, and young athletes that the internet can't stop talking about it.  

Actually poor public health and a dying population, is the best position for a pharmaceutical company to be in...

So the entire basis of this "prudent" argument is incorrect, and the opposite is actually true. 

Maybe you should try being a logic sleuth,

instead of denigrating others, when you have no real response to their points.  

 

 

PS: Funny how you did not deploy the "watchdog organizations, disgruntled executives, potential whistleblowers, not to mention the millions of internet sleuths" defense, as proof of innocence...

...for any other "acts of corruption", like say all the investigations into our ex-president. LOL

 

 

[Troll]

11 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

That's not exactly true.  

https://www.reuters.com/article/carefusion-settlement/carefusion-to-pay-40-mln-to-settle-u-s-kickbacks-lawsuit-idUKL2N0KJ1ZQ20140109

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilversel/2014/10/06/kickback-scandal-clouds-12-2b-bd-acquisition-of-carefusion/?sh=32c9f3fc614b

https://www.wbur.org/news/2014/01/27/patient-safety-scandal-carefusion

 

Yes "PROVEN malfeasance" 

...somehow that does not quite support

your "they wouldn't do that" defense... 

you are depreciating your own argument here, FYI.

🤣 

[On2whls]

15 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

Maybe CareFusion made billions and billions on the deal. I don't know. But if I read @On2whls's post correctly, it sounded like the company had to adjust their 401k policy to make up for the losses, which suggests that they didn't make billions and billions on the kickbacks scheme.

You hit the nail in the head.  

[On2whls]

16 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

That's not exactly true.  

https://www.reuters.com/article/carefusion-settlement/carefusion-to-pay-40-mln-to-settle-u-s-kickbacks-lawsuit-idUKL2N0KJ1ZQ20140109

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilversel/2014/10/06/kickback-scandal-clouds-12-2b-bd-acquisition-of-carefusion/?sh=32c9f3fc614b

https://www.wbur.org/news/2014/01/27/patient-safety-scandal-carefusion

 

What happened with CareFusion is not all that unusual.  Search for issues with Bard, Medtronic…..

[Blueliner]

[Wildcat Will]

5 hours ago, Troll said:

when anyone has an "opinion" of a conspiracy

to which one is not privy,

that "opinion" is  quite simply a "theory" of said conspiracy.

and there is no "ideology" even involved, in your flawed logic confusion.

 

whether your "theories" are "correct" or not, makes no difference...

as they are still just "unproven" theories.

The "reality" is you do not know...

so pointing at others opinions as "incorrect", while ignoring actual reality,  is fairly stupid.

 

PS: Duh... 

 

If one is not privy, one has no opinion on the subject. To consider that one is not privy, relegates that person oblivious to the subject and therefore unable to be a part of any conspiracy.

Damn man, have the years caught up with you?

 

[Troll]

4 minutes ago, Wildcat Will said:

If one is not privy, one has no opinion on the subject. <<Sums up all yer opinions on politics and the government there then now don't it. LOLOL To consider that one is not privy, relegates that person oblivious to the subject and therefore unable to be a part of any conspiracy. <<tangential word salad does not excuse your F ups (and nobody ever claimed that the general  "public", was ever part of any government "conspiracy", you idiot🤪)...hope this helps 👍

Damn man, the years caught up with me! <<fify 👌

 

 

[Belly Bob]

12 hours ago, On2whls said:

What happened with CareFusion is not all that unusual.  Search for issues with Bard, Medtronic….. ↳

wikipedia has a running list

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_off-label_promotion_pharmaceutical_settlements

The DOJ pinched Pfizer for $2.3 billion in 2009 just for (allegedly) promoting the use of certain drugs for purposes not approved by the FDA. Whistleblowers again. The harm to consumers was that Medicare and Medicaid do not reimburse for off-label prescriptions. So they had to pay full price.

I imagine it would've been worse for Pfizer if they had knowingly sold drugs that killed people. 

[Belly Bob]

18 hours ago, Troll said:

Actually poor public health and a dying population, is the best position for a pharmaceutical company to be in... ↳

So the entire basis of this "prudent" argument is incorrect, and the opposite is actually true.  ↳

That wasn't the basis of the "prudent" argument at all. 

The basis of the argument is that it's not good business to sell drugs that don't work. The reason Big Pharma supplanted the Chinese herbal remedy shops and the snake oil salesmen of the 18th and 19th centuries is that Big Pharma's products do what they claim to do. 

[Belly Bob]

17 hours ago, Troll said:

when anyone has an "opinion" of a conspiracy ↳

to which one is not privy, ↳

that "opinion" is  quite simply a "theory" of said conspiracy. ↳

If that's how language worked, then Guinea pigs would be pigs from Guinea and the Holy Roman Empire of the 17th century would be holy, Roman, and an empire. 

It's a little odd, though not surprising, that you've taken it upon yourself to advocate the view that a skeptic of a conspiracy theory is, for that very reason, a conspiracy theorist. 

[Wildcat Will]

12 hours ago, Troll said:

 

My opinion is my opinion. In no way can it be pigeon-holed to your satisfaction. You assignment of my thoughts to your perceived notion of an idea or thought , does not make my opinion part of any conspiracy that you imagine.

Your logic is flawed.

Maybe I should put some dressing on that salad so as to make it easily recognizable to your young eyes. To note, there was no particular mention of anyone,. The general public is where the conspiracy lies, is it not? Or is it a small section of society, hanging out on the fringes of society, taking stock in the opposite of all that is documented as fact?

[Troll]

13 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

That wasn't the basis of the "prudent" argument at all. <<no, it's what you missed 👍

The basis of the argument is that it's not good business to sell drugs that don't work. <<"big business" does NOT = "good busines" LOLOL...but nice try. 👌The reason Big Pharma supplanted the Chinese herbal remedy shops and the snake oil salesmen of the 18th and 19th centuries is that Big Pharma's products do what they claim to do. <<git yer blanket here folks, we got the best blankets ever, they COVER EVERYTHING and we mean EVERYTHING...LOLOL...surely you can do better...☹️ 

 

13 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

If that's how language worked, then Guinea pigs would be pigs from Guinea and the Holy Roman Empire of the 17th century would be holy, Roman, and an empire. <<you must have never been fluent in "pig-latin", didn't you learn anything from that as a child?  apparently not. 🤷‍♂️

It's a little odd, though not surprising, that you've taken it upon yourself to advocate the view that a skeptic of a conspiracy theory is, for that very reason, a conspiracy theorist. <<creating extremely poor and false sentences and  then trying to attribute and apply them to me, is a purely weakling tactic for those that are inept in their own argument, though not surprising...lol...the "skeptic in yer mind" is not a "conspiracy theorist" because he is a skeptic, DUH, it's because (not being IN on the conspiracy) he can ONLY THEORIZE on what he does NOT KNOW about said conspiracy.  Hope this helps  👍

   

PS: Pig latin says: you can't project from the future who you think is right vs wrong, and then apply it to yer mangled definition of a word today...go figure.

 

BTW: gonna have to start dumbing shiat down fer u......you must be slipping, you are normally much sharper than here.  

 

[Troll]

13 hours ago, Wildcat Will said:

My opinion is 💩

fify 👍

[On2whls]

17 hours ago, Belly Bob said:

I imagine it would've been worse for Pfizer if they had knowingly sold drugs that killed people. 

I have my own personal reasons to not trust them.  

[GoBigBlack]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/since-covid-more-young-people-214708021.html
 

Cliffnotes for those who can’t read more than a headline — it’s not the vaccine.

[Bormio]

So Fauci admits the vaccines were much less effective than advertised and that they knew it.  In other words, the sell job was total BS.  Covid has destroyed the credibility of American medicine in the eyes of millions for a generation or more.  Fauci’s place in history belongs with the eugenics crowd.  At least they believed what they were saying.

[FreeBird]

13 minutes ago, Bormio said:

So Fauci admits the vaccines were much less effective than advertised and that they knew it.  In other words, the sell job was total BS.  Covid has destroyed the credibility of American medicine in the eyes of millions for a generation or more.  Fauci’s place in history belongs with the eugenics crowd.  At least they believed what they were saying.

 

[On2whls]

1 hour ago, Bormio said:

So Fauci admits the vaccines were much less effective than advertised and that they knew it.  In other words, the sell job was total BS.  Covid has destroyed the credibility of American medicine in the eyes of millions for a generation or more.  Fauci’s place in history belongs with the eugenics crowd.  At least they believed what they were saying.

I don’t think people understand what went into developing the vaccines years ago, the amount of trials that were required, and the time necessary to make effective evaluations of vaccine efficacy.   The Covid vaccines were fast tracked with a relatively new  (mRNA) approach.  Efficacy predictions, we’re just that, predictions made off of relatively little data compiled in a very short period of time.  I think it was a naive thought that simply removing red tape to speed the process up would result in a reliable product.  To that end,  Fauci is guilty of wavering and trying to taper his responses to align with what the government wanted people to hear.  
 

In hindsight, more deaths could probably have been prevented if FDA allowed more widespread use of novel treatments using already approved combinations of drugs while the vaccines were given more time in development.  
 

Using advanced technology to predict outcomes doesn’t always work well given the complexity of biological systems and the multitude of interactions and possible outcomes. 
 

The big winner in all this?  Big Pharma became very wealthy in a short period of time peddling a product that everyone wanted to work, whilst given immunity to litigation for product failure.  

[Bormio]

7 minutes ago, On2whls said:

I don’t think people understand what went into developing the vaccines years ago, the amount of trials that were required, and the time necessary to make effective evaluations of vaccine efficacy.   The Covid vaccines were fast tracked with a relatively new  (mRNA) approach.  Efficacy predictions, we’re just that, predictions made off of relatively little data compiled in a very short period of time.  I think it was a naive thought that simply removing red tape to speed the process up would result in a reliable product.  To that end,  Fauci is guilty of wavering and trying to taper his responses to align with what the government wanted people to hear.  
 

In hindsight, more deaths could probably have been prevented if FDA allowed more widespread use of novel treatments using already approved combinations of drugs while the vaccines were given more time in development.  
 

Using advanced technology to predict outcomes doesn’t always work well given the complexity of biological systems and the multitude of interactions and possible outcomes. 
 

The big winner in all this?  Big Pharma became very wealthy in a short period of time peddling a product that everyone wanted to work, whilst given immunity to litigation for product failure.  

Fauci is guilty of telling people things he either knew or believed were not true - repeatedly.  
 

If you want people to believe you, you damn well better be truthful with them.

[On2whls]

2 hours ago, Bormio said:

Fauci is guilty of telling people things he either knew or believed were not true - repeatedly.  
 

If you want people to believe you, you damn well better be truthful with them.

That might be true if he was purely a medical professional, but he’s as much a politician, as he is a doctor.  We pay politicians to lie and often re-elect them.  Politicians could give a fuck whether we believe them or not. 

[World Citizen]

16 hours ago, On2whls said:

I don’t think people understand what went into developing the vaccines years ago, the amount of trials that were required, and the time necessary to make effective evaluations of vaccine efficacy.   The Covid vaccines were fast tracked with a relatively new  (mRNA) approach.  Efficacy predictions, we’re just that, predictions made off of relatively little data compiled in a very short period of time.  I think it was a naive thought that simply removing red tape to speed the process up would result in a reliable product.  To that end,  Fauci is guilty of wavering and trying to taper his responses to align with what the government wanted people to hear.  

Don't you mean what Trump wanted people to know...or not know?  Don't remember any wavering but do remember his responses included new information as it became available.  
 

In hindsight, more deaths could probably have been prevented if FDA allowed more widespread use of novel treatments using already approved combinations of drugs while the vaccines were given more time in development.

Is it possible that even more lives could have been saved if Trump didn't try to dismiss and even mock people who said we are in a pandemic?  He discouraged the wearing of masks, did all he could to ignore a pandemic when he knew we were in one.  Hell he even had rallies, seemingly every other day, with people refusing to wear masks bc it became a political decision and not a health and science one.  

It was such a typical Trump response and it one can count of him responding this way.  Make a horrible thing and turn it into a much worse thing.  Cost him the Presidency IMO.  All he had to do was listen to people who knew more than he did and get the hell out of the way.  

Using advanced technology to predict outcomes doesn’t always work well given the complexity of biological systems and the multitude of interactions and possible outcomes. 
 

The big winner in all this?  Big Pharma became very wealthy in a short period of time peddling a product that everyone wanted to work, whilst given immunity to litigation for product failure.  

 

[On2whls]

9 hours ago, World Citizen said:

 

Okay, I give up, you know all the answers.   Trump is totally responsible for the pandemic, even the deaths under Biden.  The vaccines have an impeccable record and brought Covid to a screeching halt.  Faucci NEVER once contradicted himself.  We just need to keep pumping vaccine into our children so that they never get Covid which is surely a death sentence.  MSM has been 100% right on all things Covid.  What did I miss?