concha Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, Warrior said: Did you change the topic from the 1st post about blacks and the police? If not my post is very on topic. He is an idiot. When someone uses actual facts, he resorts to baseless, meaningless word salad responses. It's as reliable as the sun rising in the east. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 Just now, concha said: And you must have missed when I wrote this: "Today, these events can happen in blue cities, with black police chiefs and even black cops. The cities are far more often than not run by Dems for the better part of a lifetime or more. The story we are asked to believe? It's all systemic. Guess fucking what? Democrats - including black Democrats - are and have been "the system" in these places for decades. And guess who keeps pushing fellow blacks to keep trusting them? Shills like our dear pal Willie. What happened in Memphis is far more in line with the fact that by far the biggest threat to black man in America is another black man." Here was the OP: This incident serves as a reminder and a warning. A reminder that the badge is not here to protect and serve the community and a warning to the youth that the badge is not their friend. Stay away from them, out of their way. The fact is that this shit is rare, unlike what shills like Willie would have you believe. The police keep black-on-black violence down. Poor police situations are not rare. Police shootings, beatings are not the only way of biased policing. how do you think we got to the point of disproportionate drug arrests v drug usage by race? We’ve had this discussion before. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Will Posted January 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 9 minutes ago, Warrior said: Did you change the topic from the 1st post about blacks and the police? If not my post is very on topic. You must read to gain understanding. Have you not been told to not judge a book by its cover? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 19 minutes ago, Warrior said: A couple of the studies highlights for those that don't care to read the link above. In 2015, the Obama Justice Department studied the Philadelphia Police Department’s use of force and determined that white officers were less likely to shoot an unarmed black suspect than were either black or Hispanic officers. Harvard University economist Roland G. Fryer, meanwhile, “didn’t find racial differences in officer-involved shootings” when he studied 1,399 of them in California, Texas, Florida, Colorado, and Washington from 2000 to 2015. “In addition, from Houston only in those same years, we had reports describing situations in which gunfire might have been justified by department guidelines but the cops didn’t shoot,” he wrote in The Wall Street Journal last year. “This is a key piece of data that popular online databases don’t include. “No matter how we analyzed the data, we found no racial differences in shootings overall, in any city in particular, or in any subset of the data.” Then how did they explain the difference in police shootings when broken out as a percentage by race? Did this study confirm that the race by % of the population is consistent to the % of those killed by police? (Ex. Blacks are 13% of the pop and represented 13% of those killed by cops) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Will Posted January 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Poor police situations are not rare. Police shootings, beatings are not the only way of biased policing. how do you think we got to the point of disproportionate drug arrests v drug usage by race? We’ve had this discussion before. It seems as though some people have a problem with relativity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Poor police situations are not rare. Police shootings, beatings are not the only way of biased policing. how do you think we got to the point of disproportionate drug arrests v drug usage by race? We’ve had this discussion before. Liberals believe that police killings of blacks are orders of magnitude beyond what they truly are. There is NOTHING done to combat that narrative. I have no problem addressing legitimate issues regarding reality. But the left does not use reality in the context of AA-police relations. Willie is a counterproductive jackass. When having cops in your neighborhood reduces the likelihood you'll die (most probably at the hands of someone who looks just like you), you can probably count him a friend. Have you seen the ad where an black inner-city mom is talking about how she worries about her son wearing a hoodie and getting shot by a cop? Bullshit. He's more likely to be hit by lightning. The guy who looks alot like her son who lives just around the way however? Literally hundreds of times more likely to hurt her boy. Rare versus REAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Then how did they explain the difference in police shootings when broken out as a percentage by race? Did this study confirm that the race by % of the population is consistent to the % of those killed by police? (Ex. Blacks are 13% of the pop and represented 13% of those killed by cops) More fun with numbers. Introduce who per capita disproportionately commits the most violent crimes and thus invites more police interactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 minute ago, concha said: Liberals believe that police killings of blacks are orders of magnitude beyond what they truly are. There is NOTHING done to combat that narrative. I have no problem addressing legitimate issues regarding reality. But the left does not use reality in the context of AA-police relations. Willie is a counterproductive jackass. When having cops in your neighborhood reduces the likelihood you'll die (most probably at the hands of someone who looks just like you), you can probably count him a friend. Have you seen the ad where an black inner-city mom is talking about how she worries about her son wearing a hoodie and getting shot by a cop? Bullshit. He's more likely to hit by lightning. The guy who looks alot like her son who lives just around the way however? Literally hundreds of times more likely to hurt her boy. Rare versus REAL How can YOU call it bullshit, what is YOUR experience with police interactions in the inner city? do you think cops approach and treat all inner residents fairly and respectfully before assessing their criminal status? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, concha said: More fun with numbers. Introduce who per capita disproportionately commits the most violent crimes and thus invites more police interactions. A violent interaction can occur with a simple crime or routine traffic stop. Whites committed 69% of all crimes (2021 fbi stats) If it was all about what brings proportionate police interactions, then why don’t we see the same amount of drug arrests v usage? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, Horsefly said: How can YOU call it bullshit, what is YOUR experience with police interactions in the inner city? do you think cops approach and treat all inner residents fairly and respectfully before assessing their criminal status? When I've lived there it's been rare (West Philly, Chicago not far from the old Cabrini Green). Being law-abiding helps. And to be fair, not living in and avoiding higher crime areas where cops are going to feel less threatened and are generally treated more respectfully also helps. I think cops are human beings and like any other person they use their knowledge and personal experience. The cop in the low-crime neighborhood where he is thanked for his service and hears "Yes, Officer. No, Officer" is naturally going to interact differently than the cop working a beat in a high-crime area where he is routinely disrespected and viewed as a predator (I'll refer you back to the poll I posted which demonstrates that many liberals view police as predators based a totally false narrative). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Will Posted January 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, concha said: When I've lived there it's been rare (West Philly, Chicago not far from the old Cabrini Green). Being law-abiding helps. And to be fair, not living in and avoiding higher crime areas where cops are going to feel less threatened and are generally treated more respectfully also helps. I think cops are human beings and like any other person they use their knowledge and personal experience. The cop in the low-crime neighborhood where he is thanked for his service and hears "Yes, Officer. No, Officer" is naturally going to interact differently than the cop working a beat in a high-crime area where he is routinely disrespected and viewed as a predator (I'll refer you back to the poll I posted which demonstrates that many liberals view police as predators based a totally false narrative). That false narrative you refer to is the daily black reality of fearing the cops. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 minute ago, concha said: When I've lived there it's been rare (West Philly, Chicago not far from the old Cabrini Green). Being law-abiding helps. And to be fair, not living in and avoiding higher crime areas where cops are going to feel less threatened and are generally treated more respectfully also helps. I think cops are human beings and like any other person they use their knowledge and personal experience. The cop in the low-crime neighborhood where he is thanked for his service and hears "Yes, Officer. No, Officer" is naturally going to interact differently than the cop working a beat in a high-crime area where he is routinely disrespected and viewed as a predator (I'll refer you back to the poll I posted which demonstrates that many liberals view police as predators based a totally false narrative). 😂 this is what we mean by you have no experience, but you feel compelled to “share” anyways. Let me give you a real experience. My 75 , church going, mother in law, in Houston was pulled over a few times by cops for no other reason the sorry pos “suspected” her of hauling drugs! She was dressed in her Sunday best, she drove a nice car so they assumed she was a drug dealer. Yeah, great service to the community. They earned some points with that interaction. Hell, how could one not trust and love them. remember this convo was about trust. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Will Posted January 31, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 43 minutes ago, concha said: He is an idiot. When someone uses actual facts, he resorts to baseless, meaningless word salad responses. It's as reliable as the sun rising in the east. Who is commenting on something they have no personal knowledge of? That is idiotic, furthermore, calling someone that has lived it an idiot is much more......or less. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, Horsefly said: A violent interaction can occur with a simple crime or routine traffic stop. Whites committed 69% of all crimes (2021 fbi stats) If it was all about what brings proportionate police interactions, then why don’t we see the same amount of drug arrests v usage? Blacks make up about 13% of the population. When it comes to crimes like murder, rape, robbery, and assault, they are represented at generally 2x to 4x that percentage. There are 5x to 6x as many whites as blacks in America, yet blacks commit the most murders. There are studies that show that police are actually LESS likely to shoot a black man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, concha said: Blacks make up about 13% of the population. When it comes to crimes like murder, rape, robbery, and assault, they are represented at generally 2x to 4x that percentage. There are 5x to 6x as many whites as blacks in America, yet blacks commit the most murders. There are studies that show that police are actually LESS likely to shoot a black man. Like I said, murders, assaults and rape are not the only criminal interactions that lead to police violence. Tyre that was murdered in TN wasn’t doing any of those things. Neither were folks like philando Castile or Eric Gardner. how can they shoot blacks less when they are the highest percentage of those killed? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 5 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Like I said, murders, assaults and rape are not the only criminal interactions that lead to police violence. Tyre that was murdered in TN wasn’t doing any of those things. Neither were folks like philando Castile or Eric Gardner. how can they shoot blacks less when they are the highest percentage of those killed? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 8 minutes ago, Horsefly said: 😂 this is what we mean by you have no experience, but you feel compelled to “share” anyways. Let me give you a real experience. My 75 , church going, mother in law, in Houston was pulled over a few times by cops for no other reason the sorry pos “suspected” her of hauling drugs! She was dressed in her Sunday best, she drove a nice car so they assumed she was a drug dealer. Yeah, great service to the community. They earned some points with that interaction. Hell, how could one not trust and love them. remember this convo was about trust. How many times? In what area was she? It's a nice catch-22. If police aggressively try to get crime under control in a higher-crime area, then they are nazis. If they don't and crime remains high or worsens, then they don't care because racism or whatever. I'm sure it sucks in certain areas to be one of the law-abiding and still get police attention. Are the cops to blame? Or those who commit the crimes and create the environment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 28 minutes ago, Horsefly said: Like I said, murders, assaults and rape are not the only criminal interactions that lead to police violence. Tyre that was murdered in TN wasn’t doing any of those things. Neither were folks like philando Castile or Eric Gardner. how can they shoot blacks less when they are the highest percentage of those killed? 1) Even across all crimes in the FBI list, blacks are at double their representation in the population as a whole. 2) I am not claiming police are perfect. They are human and imperfect. And some, like any other person, are assholes and even evil. Of the cases you mention, just one appears to have been a situation where the cops were just out looking to cause harm. Philando Castile died as a result of not following repeated police commands after it was known there was a gun in the vehicle. The cop was found innocent of wrongdoing. Eric Gardner did not obey lawful commands and resisted the police if memory serves. He has underlying medical issues also. It was a silly escalation over cigarettes. In the end these things are RARE. How many such instances over how many years? How many black Americans are there? Forty to forty-five million? Again, in any given year an unarmed black man is more likely to be struck by lightning than be shot and killed by a cop. 3) You are free to look it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 11 hours ago, Horsefly said: What fallacy? ↳ The genetic fallacy. It consists in the inference from something's having a property in the past or in its origins to its having that same property now. That's why I encouraged you to consider the Democratic Party. Unless I'm missing your point, you make the inference several times, including here 👇 11 hours ago, Horsefly said: who do you think enforced racist segregation laws and Jim Crow in this country? ↳ and here 👇 7 hours ago, Horsefly said: Policing in America was partially developed from slave patrols and then used to uphold americas apartheid system for almost a 100 years. That’s America’s reality. and @Wildcat Will makes it here 👇 2 hours ago, Wildcat Will said: Obama was not here in 1619 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 19 minutes ago, concha said: How many times? In what area was she? It's a nice catch-22. If police aggressively try to get crime under control in a higher-crime area, then they are nazis. If they don't and crime remains high or worsens, then they don't care because racism or whatever. I'm sure it sucks in certain areas to be one of the law-abiding and still get police attention. Are the cops to blame? Or those who commit the crimes and create the environment? It was more than once, but once is enough! she fit no damn profile. It was harassment. If you had anyone that you valued in the black community you’d understand. My MIL is not a stat or a graph on a chart (which is all you can relate to) That’s why willies caution was not for YOU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Horsefly said: do you think cops approach and treat all inner residents fairly and respectfully before assessing their criminal status? ↳ That would be a foolish policy, which you seem to acknowledge here 👇 59 minutes ago, Horsefly said: My 75 , church going, mother in law, in Houston was pulled over a few times by cops for no other reason the sorry pos “suspected” her of hauling drugs! Otherwise, why would her being 75 be at all relevant to your story? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, Horsefly said: It was more than once, but once is enough! she fit no damn profile. It was harassment. If you had anyone that you valued in the black community you’d understand. My MIL is not a stat or a graph on a chart (which is all you can relate to) That’s why willies caution was not for YOU. I can relate to the fact that in certain areas of the country, the crime rates drive certain police behaviors. If I was a law-abiding resident of such a community and my law-abiding relative was stopped by the police I would not be pleased. But the underlying question of whether said relative was stopped for the hell of it or because there is lots of crime and thus heavier and more aggressive policing still remains. Perhaps you'll take a shot at the question Willie dodged. In many inner city higher crime neighborhoods in this country, do the police with their low pay and lack of respect and appreciation nevertheless tend to reduce crime and save lives or the opposite? These were Willie's words: "...the badge is not here to protect and serve the community" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 12 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: The genetic fallacy. It consists in the inference from something's having a property in the past or in its origins to its having that same property now. That's why I encouraged you to consider the Democratic Party. Unless I'm missing your point, you make the inference several times, including here 👇 and here 👇 and @Wildcat Will makes it here 👇 I offered historical context on why there was mistrust for cops. why and when do you think that gap closed? What national policing reformation took place to restore that confidence since segregation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted January 31, 2023 Report Share Posted January 31, 2023 11 hours ago, Horsefly said: What fallacy? do you know my personal experience or others experience with policing? There's also the fallacy of anecdotal evidence, which you seem to commit several more times, including here 👇 1 hour ago, Horsefly said: what is YOUR experience with police interactions in the inner city? and which @Wildcat Will seems to commit several times, including here 👇 2 hours ago, Wildcat Will said: That is your experience. ↳ If we want to prove @Wildcat Will's original thesis, that "the badge is not here to protect and serve the community" and that "the badge is not the friend of the youth," then you're going to have to do a lot more than appeal to personal experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted February 1, 2023 Report Share Posted February 1, 2023 12 minutes ago, Horsefly said: I offered historical context on why there was mistrust for cops. why and when do you think that gap closed? What national policing reformation took place to restore that confidence since segregation? Here's a broad overview. It mentions major reform efforts in every decade from the 60s onward. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_reform_in_the_United_States Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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