NorCalRuss Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 3 hours ago, DevilDog said: Brother you are so correct they don't get prosecuted. They beat the case then magically they get let go by the police force. https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/true-crime/wp/2016/06/22/study-finds-1100-police-officers-per-year-or-3-per-day-are-arrested-nationwide/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDog Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 12 hours ago, NorCalRuss said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/true-crime/wp/2016/06/22/study-finds-1100-police-officers-per-year-or-3-per-day-are-arrested-nationwide/ You are confusing what we are discussing. They do get arrested for Extortion, Sexual assaults and similar type crimes. They don't get arrested and indicted usually for shootings and brutality. This is changing the subject matter sir. What you do show is they are in fact many that are very corrupt and their arrests are usually dealing with them and money crimes. But why are they not held to the same standards for brutatality? https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/18/us/police-involved-shooting-cases/index.html https://www.vox.com/cards/police-brutality-shootings-us/police-use-of-force-convictions https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/why-police-officers-often-aren-t-convicted-using-lethal-force-n619961 https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/09/why_grand_juries_so_rarely_ind.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCalRuss Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 35 minutes ago, DevilDog said: You are confusing what we are discussing. They do get arrested for Extortion, Sexual assaults and similar type crimes. They don't get arrested and indicted usually for shootings and brutality. This is changing the subject matter sir. What you do show is they are in fact many that are very corrupt and their arrests are usually dealing with them and money crimes. But why are they not held to the same standards for brutatality? https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/18/us/police-involved-shooting-cases/index.html https://www.vox.com/cards/police-brutality-shootings-us/police-use-of-force-convictions https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/why-police-officers-often-aren-t-convicted-using-lethal-force-n619961 https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/09/why_grand_juries_so_rarely_ind.html “There were 125 officers charged with murder or non-negligent manslaughter in the seven years of the study, and the Bowling Green researchers have followed the outcomes. Of the 125 cases, 107 have been resolved and 77 of those officers were convicted, a 72 percent conviction rate, the same conviction rate as for officers in all crimes where the outcomes are known. A Justice Department study of state court convictions for all defendants, not just police, found a conviction rate in all felony cases of 68 percent, and a 70 percent conviction rate for murder.” This was in article I posted. I wasn’t changing subject. Police that were prosecuted had higher conviction rate than civilians.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDog Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 1 minute ago, NorCalRuss said: “There were 125 officers charged with murder or non-negligent manslaughter in the seven years of the study, and the Bowling Green researchers have followed the outcomes. Of the 125 cases, 107 have been resolved and 77 of those officers were convicted, a 72 percent conviction rate, the same conviction rate as for officers in all crimes where the outcomes are known. A Justice Department study of state court convictions for all defendants, not just police, found a conviction rate in all felony cases of 68 percent, and a 70 percent conviction rate for murder.” This was in article I posted. I wasn’t changing subject. Police that were prosecuted had higher conviction rate than civilians.... About 20 officers per year according to your Stats. Which again proves they are rarely charged in these incidents. Many people viewed 2015 as a year of reckoning for police, with continued scrutiny of the use of deadly force spurring momentum for reform. In reality, however, the road to accountability remains a long one. That point is clearly reflected in the number of police officers who were convicted on murder or manslaughter charges last year for fatally shooting a civilian in the line of duty. In 2015, that number was zero. And that’s not unusual. No officers were convicted on such charges in 2014 either. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/05/17/us/black-deaths-police.html The tiny number of convictions in fatal police shootings looks even smaller when you consider just how many cases the criminal justice system considers each year. Although there are no reliable government statistics on civilians killed by police, data compiled independently last year by outlets like The Guardian and The Washington Post, or civilian tracker Mapping Police Violence, have led to estimates of roughly 1,000 deadly shootings each year. Of that total, prosecutors and grand juries around the nation each year have determined that around five of these cases involve misconduct worthy of manslaughter or murder charges. And in the end, the criminal justice system typically concludes that only around one shooting each year is consistent with manslaughter or murder. This means the overwhelming majority of police shooting cases are ultimately determined to be justified homicides, in which deadly force was used lawfully, often in what police say was an effort to protect an officer’s safety or to prevent harm to the public. One reason for the lack of prosecution and subsequent conviction begins with the Supreme Court’s legal standard for use of lethal force. According to Graham v. Connor, the landmark 1989 case that established the standard, each “use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight.” The ruling specifically cautions against judging police too harshly for split-second decisions made in “tense, uncertain and rapidly evolving” situations. All of this gives officers plenty of leeway to explain why their actions were legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDog Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 https://www.newsy.com/stories/police-officers-are-rarely-convicted-in-fatal-shootings/ GRAHAM VS. CONNOR PROTECTS THEM. I again support them in most of these cases. But I also don't give them the benefit of the doubt in obvious heinous acts as many others are apt to do and I don't just mean the shootings but the brutal acts as well with no repercussions. It's rare for a police officer to be charged or convicted of a fatal on-duty shooting. According to data from criminologist Philip Stinson, there are close to 1,000 officer-involved shootings in the U.S. each year. Since 2005, 84 officers have been charged with murder or manslaughter in fatal on-duty shootings. Nearly 36 percent have been convicted. Legal experts say convictions are rare because, many times, it's hard to dispute an officer's decision-making in a heated moment. "There's basically a federal standard that was laid down in Graham v. Connor, which is a 1989 U.S. Supreme Court ruling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCalRuss Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 7 minutes ago, DevilDog said: https://www.newsy.com/stories/police-officers-are-rarely-convicted-in-fatal-shootings/ GRAHAM VS. CONNOR PROTECTS THEM. I again support them in most of these cases. But I also don't give them the benefit of the doubt in obvious heinous acts as many others are apt to do and I don't just mean the shootings but the brutal acts as well with no repercussions. It's rare for a police officer to be charged or convicted of a fatal on-duty shooting. According to data from criminologist Philip Stinson, there are close to 1,000 officer-involved shootings in the U.S. each year. Since 2005, 84 officers have been charged with murder or manslaughter in fatal on-duty shootings. Nearly 36 percent have been convicted. Legal experts say convictions are rare because, many times, it's hard to dispute an officer's decision-making in a heated moment. "There's basically a federal standard that was laid down in Graham v. Connor, which is a 1989 U.S. Supreme Court ruling Well I thinks it’s obvious a high number of police shootings are justified so they wouldn’t be prosecuted. There’s very few that are questionable with amount of shootings so that’s why few are prosecuted. But to say they don’t get charged or convicted isn’t accurate. Saying theres 1000 shootings a year and only 84 been charged is representing that those 1000 are questionable shootings. Every shooting that occurs receives an investigation. Then moves on from there if needed. I give cops benefit of doubt until proven wrong I don’t give a pass for any brutality that’s proven and they should be charged.The cases where mistakes are made from split second decisions i side with officers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDog Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, NorCalRuss said: Well I thinks it’s obvious a high number of police shootings are justified so they wouldn’t be prosecuted. There’s very few that are questionable with amount of shootings so that’s why few are prosecuted. But to say they don’t get charged or convicted isn’t accurate. Saying theres 1000 shootings a year and only 84 been charged is representing that those 1000 are questionable shootings. Every shooting that occurs receives an investigation. Then moves on from there if needed. I give cops benefit of doubt until proven wrong I don’t give a pass for any brutality that’s proven and they should be charged.The cases where mistakes are made from split second decisions i side with officers. No doubt shitty job dealing with the worst America has to offer on most days and judged on split second decisions. That's one reason I am in Insurance. Upon retirement in 2002 I went thru the 8 Months process to become a deputy Sheriff in Orange County California and within weeks before the Academy I decided to go in another direction. The 1st 2 years are in the County Jail then after that you can be a Bailiff, Beach Patrol, but most of it is serving warrants as a Deputy Sheriff. Which can be quite violent. Glad I didn't in this current climate. I do hold them to a higher standard than the Riff Raff they deal with regardless of Color. Hell the Shooting of Daniel Shaver (White Male) is one of the most disturbing shootings ever IMHO by the same Mesa Police Department. That department has some issues. Many POC share the same sentiments of this wife. I have much empathy for her. http://www.azfamily.com/story/37053698/widow-of-man-shot-killed-by-ex-mesa-police-officer-speaks-about-verdict-her-family Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCalRuss Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, DevilDog said: No doubt shitty job dealing with the worst America has to offer on most days and judged on split second decisions. That's one reason I am in Insurance. Upon retirement in 2002 I went thru the 8 Months process to become a deputy Sheriff in Orange County California and within weeks before the Academy I decided to go in another direction. The 1st 2 years are in the County Jail then after that you can be a Bailiff, Beach Patrol, but most of it is serving warrants as a Deputy Sheriff. Which can be quite violent. Glad I didn't in this current climate. I do hold them to a higher standard than the Riff Raff they deal with regardless of Color. Hell the Shooting of Daniel Shaver (White Male) is one of the most disturbing shootings ever IMHO by the same Mesa Police Department. That department has some issues. Many POC share the same sentiments of this wife. I have much empathy for her. http://www.azfamily.com/story/37053698/widow-of-man-shot-killed-by-ex-mesa-police-officer-speaks-about-verdict-her-family Ya bro, I honestly don’t think many understand what cops go thru on a daily basis. They deal with real world crazy shit. Some do make mistakes and some are assholes. When we got laid off last year my boss moved to Florida where he bought a nice house and land in NorthWest Florida dirt cheap. He spent 6 months here in Cali training for test. When he went to dept in Florida they told him salary was $35,000 or something extremely low close for that. . He walked out that day and said, “ no way I’m walking around with gun on hip and target on my back for minimum wage” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevilDog Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, NorCalRuss said: Ya bro, I honestly don’t think many understand what cops go thru on a daily basis. They deal with real world crazy shit. Some do make mistakes and some are assholes. When we got laid off last year my boss moved to Florida where he bought a nice house and land in NorthWest Florida dirt cheap. He spent 6 months here in Cali training for test. When he went to dept in Florida they told him salary was $35,000 or something extremely low close for that. . He walked out that day and said, “ no way I’m walking around with gun on hip and target on my back for minimum wage” I don't blame him. At the time in 2002 the starting salary in Orange County, Ca for D.S. was $53,000.00. Would have been nice along with my Military Pension and the 75% of Salary they offered after 20 years. I would have had about 4 years left to go for that. But when I got back on base after my 5th trip up there for the process. My young Sergeant said Gunny you know what would suck is after about a 1yr after you retire some punk kills you on the street. I sat down that night and said do I want to deal with the worst people for the next 20 years and is it worth it. Bear in Mind many former Military guys were telling me man you can retire again in 20 at about 58 or 60 and be set as that is what they were doing. The money was great in Cali even with the high cost of living. But I came to Dallas and thought why not here. They told me 34,000 to start and I walked out. No dummy I know being a Deputy Sheriff is safer than a City Cop. Yet they paid much less. I don't blame your old boss. I have 2 cops in the family. One in Los Angeles and the other a Retired Richomd, Ca cop. Both terrible places. The retired Richmond Cop is a former Marine Vietnam POW. Who's finger tips are messed up because he told me the VC tied his hands to boards and they walked back and forth on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCalRuss Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 2 hours ago, DevilDog said: I don't blame him. At the time in 2002 the starting salary in Orange County, Ca for D.S. was $53,000.00. Would have been nice along with my Military Pension and the 75% of Salary they offered after 20 years. I would have had about 4 years left to go for that. But when I got back on base after my 5th trip up there for the process. My young Sergeant said Gunny you know what would suck is after about a 1yr after you retire some punk kills you on the street. I sat down that night and said do I want to deal with the worst people for the next 20 years and is it worth it. Bear in Mind many former Military guys were telling me man you can retire again in 20 at about 58 or 60 and be set as that is what they were doing. The money was great in Cali even with the high cost of living. But I came to Dallas and thought why not here. They told me 34,000 to start and I walked out. No dummy I know being a Deputy Sheriff is safer than a City Cop. Yet they paid much less. I don't blame your old boss. I have 2 cops in the family. One in Los Angeles and the other a Retired Richomd, Ca cop. Both terrible places. The retired Richmond Cop is a former Marine Vietnam POW. Who's finger tips are messed up because he told me the VC tied his hands to boards and they walked back and forth on them. I have lot of cop friends out here and they all make over 100k. It’s a good living but 100k only goes so far in Cali plus the other negatives of cop life attached. Most are planning to retire ASAP because they don’t like where the job has went over last decade. They’re perceived as enemy by many and it’s just not true. Theres lot of “shithole” areas in Cali and they deal with some “bad hombres” My buddies dad was a rat in Vietnam for Marines. He looks like he’s 55 today but in his 70s. He was my baseball coach on travel team back in the day and we knew not to question anything he said. All 5 ft nothing of him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberalDonaldTrump Posted June 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 2 hours ago, NorCalRuss said: I have lot of cop friends out here and they all make over 100k. It’s a good living but 100k only goes so far in Cali plus the other negatives of cop life attached. Most are planning to retire ASAP because they don’t like where the job has went over last decade. They’re perceived as enemy by many and it’s just not true. Theres lot of “shithole” areas in Cali and they deal with some “bad hombres” My buddies dad was a rat in Vietnam for Marines. He looks like he’s 55 today but in his 70s. He was my baseball coach on travel team back in the day and we knew not to question anything he said. All 5 ft nothing of him. You think these cops like going home after they were just on the scene where a 5 year old got shot in the face because of some gang shit!!! fuck that shit fucks them up so when they see people doing illegal shit of course thier gonna fuck them up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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