While Americans lose their homes, and millions of Americans living on the streets, NYC illegal immigrants protesting for better free food and permanent homes

[FreeBird]

Make this make sense 

 

[GoBigBlack]

That’s quite a dramatic title considering foreclosures are down 34% from 2019. If you’re concerned about Americans losing their homes now, I can’t imagine how enraged you were about it four years ago when it was so much worse.

 

 

[FreeBird]

On 1/31/2023 at 7:00 AM, GoBigBlack said:

That’s quite a dramatic title considering foreclosures are down 34% from 2019. If you’re concerned about Americans losing their homes now, I can’t imagine how enraged you were about it four years ago when it was so much worse.

 

 

 in 2022, up 115 percent from 2021 https://m.youtube.com/shorts/-HGF0l3eZTg

[GoBigBlack]

4 hours ago, FreeBird said:

 in 2022, up 115 percent from 2021

Yeah. Probably because lots of states put restrictions on evictions and foreclosures during COVID. So it’s up from an artificial number. It’s still down from Trump. Not going to address that part?

[GoBigBlack]

Oh, and homelessness is up a whopping 0.3% from 2019. That’s significantly less than the population growth. So you’re bitching about two things here, and both have improved under Biden from where they were with Trump. 

[concha]

I believe a major reason for the "decline" in homelessness in NYC was that they were limiting access to shelters. Homeless folks in shelters is the basis for homeless statistics.  Once restrictions eased, the population spiked back up and appears to be growing. It is now higher than under Trump (70.1k vs 62.7k in January 2020) and is trending up. 

https://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/NYC-Homeless-Shelter-Population-Charts-11-2022.pdf

https://www.nyc.gov/assets/dhs/downloads/pdf/dailyreport.pdf

 

[GoBigBlack]

In NY? Sure, maybe. The national study I’m referencing wasn’t done in 2020 or 2021 due to COVID. So they’re comparing 2019 to 2022, and there was a nationwide increase of a whopping 2,000 homeless people, or 0.3%. I have no doubt you can find specific areas it’s gotten worse, but nationwide the numbers indicate it has not. So the logical conclusion is homeless people went to NYC more than other places during COVID, so the numbers from where they came should be down to compensate for the “spike” there. Is that the case?

[concha]

1 hour ago, GoBigBlack said:

In NY? Sure, maybe. The national study I’m referencing wasn’t done in 2020 or 2021 due to COVID. So they’re comparing 2019 to 2022, and there was a nationwide increase of a whopping 2,000 homeless people, or 0.3%. I have no doubt you can find specific areas it’s gotten worse, but nationwide the numbers indicate it has not. So the logical conclusion is homeless people went to NYC more than other places during COVID, so the numbers from where they came should be down to compensate for the “spike” there. Is that the case?

[GoBigBlack]

6 minutes ago, concha said:

That doesn’t address a single thing in my response.

Is that chart tracking homeless people in NY? Dallas? Rome? London? Again, I’m talking all homeless people in the United States, and that number is close to 600,000. So you’re going to have to expound here if this chart is supposed to mean something.

Whatever the chart tracks, it was trending down until 2017, then started trending up. Which also doesn’t support any case the OP was making. 

[concha]

 

The 0.3% increase is a January of 2022 measurement, apparently.

Clear data over the subsequent year isn't easy to come by, but apparently things have only gotten worse.

As regards what's happened, I can't find anything saying it's thought to be positive. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/15/briefing/homelessness-america-housing-crisis.html

Homeless in America

The homelessness crisis is getting worse.

America’s homelessness problem has the makings of an acute crisis.

Shelters across the U.S. are reporting a surge in people looking for help, with wait lists doubling or tripling in recent months. The number of homeless people outside of shelters is also probably rising, experts say. Some of them live in encampments, which have popped up in parks and other public spaces in major cities from Washington, D.C., to Seattle since the pandemic began.

And inflation is compounding the problem: Rent has increased at its fastest rate since 1986, putting houses and apartments out of reach for more Americans.

 

As regards the previous chart...

Chronic Homelessness

One of the most troubling trends is the continuing surge of individuals experiencing chronic patterns of homelessness. This includes people who have been homeless for more than 12 months or have experienced extended periods of extended homelessness over the past three years.

Currently, about 30 percent of unhoused individuals suffer from these chronic patterns. That number jumped 16 percent over the past two years and has grown by 64 percent since 2016.

In Nevada, Oregon, California, Colorado, and Oklahoma, a third or more of people experiencing homelessness were caught in chronic homelessness. These states had the highest rates of chronic homelessness.

 

 

[concha]

22 minutes ago, GoBigBlack said:

That doesn’t address a single thing in my response.

Is that chart tracking homeless people in NY? Dallas? Rome? London? Again, I’m talking all homeless people in the United States, and that number is close to 600,000. So you’re going to have to expound here if this chart is supposed to mean something.

Whatever the chart tracks, it was trending down until 2017, then started trending up. Which also doesn’t support any case the OP was making. 

 

Something to keep in mind... the vast majority of homeless people in this country live in blue states and blue urban areas, and their plight is thus likely more tied to local and state politics than federal.

Here are the 10 states with the most homeless people:

1. California - 161,548
2. New York - 91,271
3. Florida - 27,487
4. Texas - 27,229
5. Washington - 22,923
6. Massachusetts - 17,975
7. Oregon - 14,655
8. Pennsylvania - 13,375
9. Arizona - 10,979
10. Ohio - 10,655

[GoBigBlack]

19 minutes ago, concha said:

 

Something to keep in mind... the vast majority of homeless people in this country live in blue states and blue urban areas, and their plight is thus likely more ties to local and state politics than federal.

Here are the 10 states with the most homeless people:

1. California - 161,548
2. New York - 91,271
3. Florida - 27,487
4. Texas - 27,229
5. Washington - 22,923
6. Massachusetts - 17,975
7. Oregon - 14,655
8. Pennsylvania - 13,375
9. Arizona - 10,979
10. Ohio - 10,655

That still doesn’t address the slower growth in rate of homelessness nationwide over the last three years or the fact that fewer people are having homes foreclosed on today than under Trump in 2019 before COVID.

Those are the points I made and if you have something to share that would suggest otherwise then I’m all ears. Otherwise, your charts don’t really have much to do with the chief, unfounded complaints made by the OP here or by me in my responses to him.

[GoBigBlack]

30 minutes ago, concha said:

 

The 0.3% increase is a January of 2022 measurement, apparently.

Clear data over the subsequent year isn't easy to come by, but apparently things have only gotten worse.

As regards what's happened, I can't find anything saying it's thought to be positive. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/15/briefing/homelessness-america-housing-crisis.html

Homeless in America

The homelessness crisis is getting worse.

America’s homelessness problem has the makings of an acute crisis.

Shelters across the U.S. are reporting a surge in people looking for help, with wait lists doubling or tripling in recent months. The number of homeless people outside of shelters is also probably rising, experts say. Some of them live in encampments, which have popped up in parks and other public spaces in major cities from Washington, D.C., to Seattle since the pandemic began.

And inflation is compounding the problem: Rent has increased at its fastest rate since 1986, putting houses and apartments out of reach for more Americans.

 

As regards the previous chart...

Chronic Homelessness

One of the most troubling trends is the continuing surge of individuals experiencing chronic patterns of homelessness. This includes people who have been homeless for more than 12 months or have experienced extended periods of extended homelessness over the past three years.

Currently, about 30 percent of unhoused individuals suffer from these chronic patterns. That number jumped 16 percent over the past two years and has grown by 64 percent since 2016.

In Nevada, Oregon, California, Colorado, and Oklahoma, a third or more of people experiencing homelessness were caught in chronic homelessness. These states had the highest rates of chronic homelessness.

 

 

No, they’re not from over a year ago. My numbers are from HUD, and they’re from December 2022. Just 4 weeks ago. And if you annualized it, you’re looking at closer to 0.15% increases, aren’t you now? 0.3% was a two-year figure. 

 

A decrease in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016. Then something changed and as you noted it began trending up in 2017. I read there was no 2020 study but the chart suggests there was. Regardless, the increase from 2020 to 2022, a full two years later, was less than the previous two single-year increases on record… by a lot.

[concha]

9 minutes ago, GoBigBlack said:

That still doesn’t address the slower growth in rate of homelessness nationwide over the last three years or the fact that fewer people are having homes foreclosed on today than under Trump in 2019 before COVID.

Those are the points I made and if you have something to share that would suggest otherwise then I’m all ears. Otherwise, your charts don’t really have much to do with the chief, unfounded complaints made by the OP here or by me in my responses to him.

 

I think the info i have provided lends to homelessness growth increasing, in fact (if chronic homelessness is an indicator). And you are missing a whole year, hence my inclusion of the NYT article which claims it is worsening.

As regards foreclosures, it was steadily decreasing since 2010 and is now on the upswing.

https://www.attomdata.com/news/market-trends/foreclosures/attom-year-end-2022-u-s-foreclosure-market-report/#:~:text=Those 324%2C237 properties with foreclosure,of 2.23 percent in 2010.

 

The one things I don't necessarily agree with in the OP is the reference to millions losing their homes. Not sure if that is true (ex. folks having to downgrade, move in with relatives and/or start living on the streets).  But the general point is still true. It is pretty outrageous the way we are kowtowing to and spending on foreigners when there are so many of our fellow citizens who could use a hand.

 

[concha]

11 minutes ago, GoBigBlack said:

No, they’re not from over a year ago. My numbers are from HUD, and they’re from December 2022.

 

 

From the HUD report:

Despite COVID-19-induced economic stressors, increases in rental costs and natural disasters, the overall rate of homelessness remained nearly unchanged.  • 582,462 people experiencing homelessness in January 2022 • There was a slight increase - .3 percent - in overall homelessness since 2020.  

[GoBigBlack]

3 minutes ago, concha said:

 

From the HUD report:

Despite COVID-19-induced economic stressors, increases in rental costs and natural disasters, the overall rate of homelessness remained nearly unchanged.  • 582,462 people experiencing homelessness in January 2022 • There was a slight increase - .3 percent - in overall homelessness since 2020.  

If they calculated January in December or December in December it's an apples to apples comparison. I'm assuming they don't change the way they calculate. 

[GoBigBlack]

20 minutes ago, concha said:

I think the info i have provided lends to homelessness growth increasing, in fact (if chronic homelessness is an indicator). And you are missing a whole year, hence my inclusion of the NYT article which claims it is worsening.

No idea if it's an indicator. As things return to normal after COVID and people start frequenting parks, downtown areas, etc.. the homeless camps have been shut down. It's not a shock that the shelters get overwhelmed, and I would bet that's the single biggest factor. I'd say we can't really conclude anything from the article. 

 

20 minutes ago, concha said:

As regards foreclosures, it was steadily decreasing since 2010 and is now on the upswing.

https://www.attomdata.com/news/market-trends/foreclosures/attom-year-end-2022-u-s-foreclosure-market-report/#:~:text=Those 324%2C237 properties with foreclosure,of 2.23 percent in 2010.

 

That's definitely going to increase. A lot of folks who bought homes with adjustable rates during COVID trying to catch the housing wave or be the next to retire with an Air B&B business are about to see those rates jump. A lot of people are going to get whacked. Hard. I don't know how much impact that has on the numbers.

Don't have time to read it all, but I will. Here's an excerpt from that article --

“Eighteen months after the end of the government’s foreclosure moratorium, and with less than five percent of the 8.4 million borrowers who entered the CARES Act forbearance program remaining, foreclosure activity remains significantly lower than it was prior to the COVID-19 pandemic,” said Rick Sharga, executive vice president of market intelligence at ATTOM. “It seems clear that government and mortgage industry efforts during the pandemic, coupled with a strong economy, have helped prevent millions of unnecessary foreclosures.”

 

20 minutes ago, concha said:

The one things I don't necessarily agree with in the OP is the reference to millions losing their homes. Not sure if that is true (ex. folks having to downgrade, move in with relatives and/or start living on the streets).  But the general point is still true. It is pretty outrageous the way we are kowtowing to and spending on foreigners when there are so many of our fellow citizens who could use a hand.

The general point is still true in the sense that some Americans always have and always will lose their homes. Outside of that, it's crocodile tears coming from a purely partisan place.

I don't disagree that it's outrageous. But, as our good friend Paul Ryan will tell you, these citizens who could use a hand just need to use that hand to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

I'll read the article later, thanks for the info sharing. 

[concha]

5 minutes ago, GoBigBlack said:

If they calculated January in December or December in December it's an apples to apples comparison. I'm assuming they don't change the way they calculate. 

 

I read the HUD methodology. The measurements are done in January of the year being referenced:

"Point-in-Time (PIT) Counts are unduplicated one-night estimates of both sheltered and unsheltered homeless populations. The one-night counts are conducted by CoCs nationwide and occur during the last week in January of each year."

Of note:

"The one-night PIT counts are typically conducted during the last 10 days of January each year. However, because of concerns surrounding the COVID-19 health emergency, 145 CoCs (more than one-third) received waivers in 2022 to conduct the PIT count in late February or early March instead of the last 10 days of January. Many seasonal emergency shelter programs are still in operation during the February and early March months, so those programs would still have reported people served in the sheltered count. However, the sheltered count may have undercounted the number of people who would have been counted had cold weather or warming shelters been open. "

"The effects of the pandemic on the ability to conduct unsheltered counts and on shelter capacity persisted into 2022 in some communities.  Therefore, numbers could still be artificially depressed in 2022 compared with non-pandemic times and should be viewed with caution."

 

And then there's the past 12 months which, again, appear to show a worsening situation.

 

 

[GoBigBlack]

1 minute ago, concha said:

And then there's the past 12 months which, again, appear to show a worsening situation.

I disagree with what they said and I’m betting they’re more likely overstated this year, specifically. But there are a number of factors at play that could drastically influence it in either direction.
 

I’m not trying to split hairs here, the entire point is that the outrage isn’t rooted in reality. So at this point he’s pissed because homelessness might be increasing and more people might be foreclosed on. But he can’t really know for sure. Better to err on the side of caution and let those emotions rip, I suppose.

[concha]

Just now, GoBigBlack said:

I disagree with what they said and I’m betting they’re more likely overstated this year, specifically. But there are a number of factors at play that could drastically influence it in either direction.
 

I’m not trying to split hairs here, the entire point is that the outrage isn’t rooted in reality. So at this point he’s pissed because homelessness might be increasing and more people might be foreclosed on. But he can’t really know for sure. Better to err on the side of caution and let those emotions rip, I suppose.

 

The average Americans' buying power is down what? Over 10% in the last 12 months? Yet you have serious doubts about homelessness and foreclosures increasing? OK, man...

 

And again, isn't the heart of his point that there are lots of problems faced by actual citizens yet we are spending money we don't really have on foreigners and while they spit in our faces demanding first-class freebies?

 

 

[GoBigBlack]

31 minutes ago, concha said:

Yet you have serious doubts about homelessness and foreclosures increasing? OK, man...

Maybe you missed it, but no, I don’t. I said this in response to you regarding foreclosure rates —

54 minutes ago, GoBigBlack said:

That's definitely going to increase.

And I have zero doubts about homelessness increasing as long as the population continues to do so.

[concha]

3 minutes ago, GoBigBlack said:

Maybe you missed it, but no, I don’t. I said this in response to you regarding foreclosure rates —

And I have zero doubts about homelessness increasing as long as the population continues to do so.

 

You don't think over the last several months it is sensible to predict that homelessness has increased disproportionately compared to population growth?

 

[GoBigBlack]

1 minute ago, concha said:

 

You don't think over the last several months it is sensible to predict that homelessness has increased disproportionately compared to population growth?

 

Sure it is. It also grew disproportionately (low) compared to population growth the last two years. I think that number is artificially low and anything coming out anytime soon will be artificially high. I also think we’ll have to be a few years removed from anything pandemic related before we get an accurate picture of a lot of things. 
 

Also, the average American put themselves in a bad situation. Have you seen the savings rates during the pandemic along with post-pandemic credit utilization and spending? $1 trillion of pandemic savings spent. And before you say “price of eggs,” look at luxury goods spending. It’s ludicrous. If we have a recession one of the factors triggering it will be that people don’t have money left to spend. Their paychecks are going toward their new boats.

 

[concha]

1 minute ago, GoBigBlack said:

Sure it is. It also grew disproportionately (low) compared to population growth the last two years. I think that number is artificially low and anything coming out anytime soon will be artificially high. I also think we’ll have to be a few years removed from anything pandemic related before we get an accurate picture of a lot of things. 
 

Also, the average American put themselves in a bad situation. Have you seen the savings rates during the pandemic along with post-pandemic credit utilization and spending? $1 trillion of pandemic savings spent. And before you say “price of eggs,” look at luxury goods spending. It’s ludicrous. If we have a recession one of the factors triggering it will be that people don’t have money left to spend. Their paychecks are going toward their new boats.

 

 

Even HUD warns that 2021 is likely undercounted. Citations have been provided already.

And yes, the average American is not a financially responsible genius.

New boats?

Try the much more mundane things like the latest Jordans, team hats and jerseys, flat screens, the best iPhones, constant eating out etc. Or buying a new car when the old one works fine or instead of a used one? The $$$ flushed down the schneid on the new Xbox or PS5?

 

[GoBigBlack]

1 hour ago, concha said:

 

Even HUD warns that 2021 is likely undercounted. Citations have been provided already.

And yes, the average American is not a financially responsible genius.

New boats?

Try the much more mundane things like the latest Jordans, team hats and jerseys, flat screens, the best iPhones, constant eating out etc. Or buying a new car when the old one works fine or instead of a used one? The $$$ flushed down the schneid on the new Xbox or PS5?

 

Yeah that’s entirely possible. I’m far from an expert on homelessness and I’m using things HUD wouldn’t as my reasoning. It’s not an uneducated guess, but a guess nonetheless. I’m fine being wrong sometimes. But I don’t think I’m in disagreement with HUD. I think I said my opinion is it was artificially low. If I misstated it before, that’s my opinion.

And yeah, can’t get by in life without 30 pairs of Jordans. “New boat” was meant as an all-encompassing term covering a multitude of products people buy but never should and can’t afford. Those who have saved and been responsible should be coming up on a lot of good opportunities in the near future.