Troll Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 Horse and I breached a subject the other day, and I mentioned Jordan Peterson. A recently very controversial figure. For those that have not heard of him, or where much of the more modern forms of 'Open Dialogue' have been openly debated on the web (as opposed to the network programming), I found a much better 'clip' (term used loosely LOL). It's from the perspective of a journalist who brought some of this internet movement to light...….I gives a broader perspective of what is currently happening to the state of our debates, and was thinking it's probably better to view something like this first, before diving nose first into a lot of the flame war reactions you can find on the web....regarding Peterson. It's a little longer, long like most in this realm, but under an hour and worth the watch (when you have the time to think)… Figured with the depth of this topic, deserved it's own thread......and think that many here could find something worth discussing, with this as a pretty good 'jumping off' point...🤣 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarterBlue Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 I will look at it tonight, as I like to think I have an open mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, Troll said: Horse and I breached a subject the other day, and I mentioned Jordan Peterson. A recently very controversial figure. For those that have not heard of him, or where much of the more modern forms of 'Open Dialogue' have been openly debated on the web (as opposed to the network programming), I found a much better 'clip' (term used loosely LOL). It's from the perspective of a journalist who brought some of this internet movement to light...….I gives a broader perspective of what is currently happening to the state of our debates, and was thinking it's probably better to view something like this first, before diving nose first into a lot of the flame war reactions you can find on the web....regarding Peterson. It's a little longer, long like most in this realm, but under an hour and worth the watch (when you have the time to think)… Figured with the depth of this topic, deserved it's own thread......and think that many here could find something worth discussing, with this as a pretty good 'jumping off' point...🤣 I’ll watch it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted November 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 Just now, DarterBlue said: I will look at it tonight, as I like to think I have an open mind. Journalism well done is harder to find these days....this is more like 'real' journalism, and does a decent job of giving the current lay of the land and what some others are doing, and like I said....it just seemed like a good jumping off point. You should enjoy it.... it provokes thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted November 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Horsefly said: I’ll watch it... The clip from the other day did not seem to be right at all, for an introduction to the 'Intellectual Dark Web' …😎.. While there is never a truly balanced approach, this author provides a good 'lay of the land'..... I just thought …. should probably set the stage ..... before we would be able to discuss the players/actors positions...👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted November 13, 2018 Report Share Posted November 13, 2018 51 minutes ago, Troll said: Horse and I breached a subject the other day, and I mentioned Jordan Peterson. A recently very controversial figure. For those that have not heard of him, or where much of the more modern forms of 'Open Dialogue' have been openly debated on the web (as opposed to the network programming), I found a much better 'clip' (term used loosely LOL). It's from the perspective of a journalist who brought some of this internet movement to light...….I gives a broader perspective of what is currently happening to the state of our debates, and was thinking it's probably better to view something like this first, before diving nose first into a lot of the flame war reactions you can find on the web....regarding Peterson. It's a little longer, long like most in this realm, but under an hour and worth the watch (when you have the time to think)… Figured with the depth of this topic, deserved it's own thread......and think that many here could find something worth discussing, with this as a pretty good 'jumping off' point...🤣 Never read his books but have heard some of his lectures and Q&A on YouTube. He’s not really that controversial; it’s unfortunately more a sign of the times went live in that his psychological suggestions on how to bring order in your life (esp. for young men) are viewed as being controversial. Some of what he says is insightful and worth considering on the subject. His stance on “compelled speech” re: transgender pronounsis what made him the lightning rod he is today; and I find he can be a bit of a knowing provocateur in some of what he says. Worth a listen to, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarterBlue Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 19 hours ago, Troll said: Horse and I breached a subject the other day, and I mentioned Jordan Peterson. A recently very controversial figure. For those that have not heard of him, or where much of the more modern forms of 'Open Dialogue' have been openly debated on the web (as opposed to the network programming), I found a much better 'clip' (term used loosely LOL). It's from the perspective of a journalist who brought some of this internet movement to light...….I gives a broader perspective of what is currently happening to the state of our debates, and was thinking it's probably better to view something like this first, before diving nose first into a lot of the flame war reactions you can find on the web....regarding Peterson. It's a little longer, long like most in this realm, but under an hour and worth the watch (when you have the time to think)… Figured with the depth of this topic, deserved it's own thread......and think that many here could find something worth discussing, with this as a pretty good 'jumping off' point...🤣 There was nothing in the video that I take huge issue with. I had heard of Mr. Peterson before, but have never listened to him nor have I read any of the critiques of what he has to say, as that would be putting the cart before the horse. I may further acquaint myself with him, as he seems, at the very least, to be intelligent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted November 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 hour ago, DarterBlue said: There was nothing in the video that I take huge issue with. I had heard of Mr. Peterson before, but have never listened to him nor have I read any of the critiques of what he has to say, as that would be putting the cart before the horse. I may further acquaint myself with him, as he seems, at the very least, to be intelligent. He is just one of several of a new breed of "internet thinkers".... Taken as a group, and as varied as any, you can learn a lot from their exchanges....they tend to be of a better variety than say...here LOL. I don't think that I will ever agree (or disagree) 100% with any of them, but that should be expected. Some may not like these types of debates as many topics are covered in what seems like a totally non-empathetic way, but sometimes that approach is what is missing. Like say the other post that related to Race and IQ.....My immediate visceral reaction was one, that if two Ashkenazi Jews want to discuss IQ realities with regards to race and ethnicity, I would want to point out to them that if they think that just because genetics plays the major role, that they are somehow uniquely 'superior', then ask themselves how culling a few million off (in actuality) the bottom recently would have effected any prideful average??? If that is how you claim your better 'average' then I am not so sure that I would want that 'status symbol'. Of course that would be non-empathetic.....but does that not color in the reality of the picture more clearly? Especially when the only 'environmental factors' brought to the PC IQ debate, are of the breastfeeding and child beating variety? Is such non-empathetic debate better said or not said, if you are going to try and tackle complex issues regarding such issues... or is reality not valid in such debates, as some suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarterBlue Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Troll said: He is just one of several of a new breed of "internet thinkers".... Taken as a group, and as varied as any, you can learn a lot from their exchanges....they tend to be of a better variety than say...here LOL. I don't think that I will ever agree (or disagree) 100% with any of them, but that should be expected. Some may not like these types of debates as many topics are covered in what seems like a totally non-empathetic way, but sometimes that approach is what is missing. Like say the other post that related to Race and IQ.....My immediate visceral reaction was one, that if two Ashkenazi Jews want to discuss IQ realities with regards to race and ethnicity, I would want to point out to them that if they think that just because genetics plays the major role, that they are somehow uniquely 'superior', then ask themselves how culling a few million off (realistically) the bottom recently would have effected the average??? If that is how you claim your better 'average' then I am not so sure that I would want that 'status symbol'. Of course that would be non-empathetic.....but does that not color in the reality of the picture more clearly? Especially when the only 'environmental factors' brought to the PC debate, are of the breastfeeding and child beating variety? Is such non-empathetic debate better said or not said, if you are going to try and tackle complex issues regarding such issues... or is reality not valid in such debates, as some suggest? 1. I would hope they were. Many of the discussions here are pretty sad when you consider the backgrounds of the participants. 2. As you say that should be expected. Even Mao, espoused the need for 1000 flowers to bloom. 3. That is a pretty heavy price to pay. 4. Reality is always valid. However, one's interpretation of such is often at variance with the very reality itself. Part of our problem is the need to feed one's ego. Thus, we don't argue from the perspective of a "quest for truth," rather the whole purpose is to beat the other team or individual. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted November 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, DarterBlue said: 1. I would hope they were. Many of the discussions here are pretty sad when you consider the backgrounds of the participants. 2. As you say that should be expected. Even Mao, espoused the need for 1000 flowers to bloom. 3. That is a pretty heavy price to pay. 4. Reality is always valid. However, one's interpretation of such is often at variance with the very reality itself. Part of our problem is the need to feed one's ego. Thus, we don't argue from the perspective of a "quest for truth," rather the whole purpose is to beat the other team or individual. 100% agreement here....the Bolded should be …..well.....bolded. there must be some other issues we can disagree upon 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
15yds4gibberish Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 1 hour ago, DarterBlue said: ....Thus, we don't argue from the perspective of a "quest for truth," rather the whole purpose is to beat the other team or individual. Pretty much this. But also worth noting, if we are honest, it is astonishingly hard to hold ourselves accountable to the quest. But try we must... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Citizen Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 2 hours ago, 15yds4gibberish said: Pretty much this. But also worth noting, if we are honest, it is astonishingly hard to hold ourselves accountable to the quest. But try we must... If we are honest? Are we still doing that? Kind of trite and old fashioned isn't it? That doesn't sound like a recipe for winning. Seriously though, it is very hard, esp when who you are talking too starts off by making assumptions and attacks a position you have not yet made. Hard to have a discussion of ideas and opinions when insulted. As happens with a few of us on this forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted November 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 11 minutes ago, World Citizen said: If we are honest? <now you got it LOL. Are we still doing that?<Some people yes, others...not so much. Kind of trite and old fashioned isn't it? < why yes it is...you don't se this as a negative do you?. That doesn't sound like a recipe for winning. <sounds like a better one to me, than the one you have proposed... Seriously though, it is very hard, esp when who you are talking too starts off by making assumptions and attacks a position you have not yet made. <or assumptions you have not backed up Hard to have a discussion of ideas and opinions when insulted. <sounds like a personal problem. As happens with a few of us on this forum. <hope you are not saying to you more than most.... Some day you might learn that many people will retort in like kind... If you don't like the 'attitude'...….check yours first... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Citizen Posted November 14, 2018 Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, Troll said: Some day you might learn that many people will retort in like kind... If you don't like the 'attitude'...….check yours first... Case in point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted November 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, World Citizen said: Case in point. Yes indeed, if you read it, you would have already realized that it was supposed to be... EGO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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