For the European travelers

[HSFBfan]

Obv this is for posters who have been Europe as I have no been. As anyone been to the death camps from WW2? As a lover of history I have always wanted to go so I was wondering if any of you guys have went and what were thoughts 

[Bormio]

14 minutes ago, HSFBfan said:

Obv this is for posters who have been Europe as I have no been. As anyone been to the death camps from WW2? As a lover of history I have always wanted to go so I was wondering if any of you guys have went and what were thoughts 

Never have, not sure I want to.  Never hear German spoken without thinking “You are the people who did THAT”.  The US has paid a far greater price for the sin of slavery than Germany has for the Holocaust.  They were permitted to say “We didn’t know” and just turn the page.  Bastards!

[HSFBfan]

1 minute ago, Bormio said:

Never have, not sure I want to.  Never hear German spoken without thinking “You are the people who did THAT”.  The US has paid a far greater price for the sin of slavery than Germany has for the Holocaust.  They were permitted to say “We didn’t know” and just turn the page.  Bastards!

It has been like a life long dream to go and see it. Walking through the gates of aushwitz must be so eerie. Like its gotta rock you to your core. They didnt really just walk away and say oops. The nuremburg trials did happen. 

[Bormio]

Just now, HSFBfan said:

It has been like a life long dream to go and see it. Walking through the gates of aushwitz must be so eerie. Like its gotta rock you to your core. They didnt really just walk away and say oops. The nuremburg trials did happen. 

The German people knew.  And closed their eyes.  They did not care.  Those punished by Nuremberg were a tiny few.  Germany became an ally versus the USSR and the Holocaust became a footnote.

[HSFBfan]

Just now, Bormio said:

The German people knew.  And closed their eyes.  They did not care.  Those punished by Nuremberg were a tiny few.  Germany became an ally versus the USSR and the Holocaust became a footnote.

Well yeah Germany wanted a peace deal with the US so that they could put all their resources into fighting the USSR. They had no intention of fighting the US. I understand it's a general statement but some did care about it happening but what were you gonna do oppose Hitler and get yourself killed. It was a no win for the people of Germany. Even Hitler's own generals well some of them did not want to carry out what they were ordered to do but did to save their own ass. Now there were some generals and we know who they are who full embraced Hitler and his policies. 

[Horsefly]

Went to Dachau in Bavaria.  Great learning experience but it did have a dark and gloomy feel to it.  Glad I went, but glad I left.  

[HSFBfan]

11 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Went to Dachau in Bavaria.  Great learning experience but it did have a dark and gloomy feel to it.  Glad I went, but glad I left.  

Had to have been a hell of an experience. Idk how much is left of the original camps but before they are lost to history I gotta get to them. 

[ChimpGrip]

25 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Went to Dachau in Bavaria.  Great learning experience but it did have a dark and gloomy feel to it.  Glad I went, but glad I left.  

How was the travel experience to Bavaria overall? I’m writing a book over Bavaria and I’m creating a Bavarian German dialect dictionary (so I and others can be more native-like speakers of German). I’ll post an excerpt of it here when I’m finished. 

[Horsefly]

34 minutes ago, ChimpGrip said:

How was the travel experience to Bavaria overall? I’m writing a book over Bavaria and I’m creating a Bavarian German dialect dictionary (so I and others can be more native-like speakers of German). I’ll post an excerpt of it here when I’m finished. 

I loved Bavaria, a throw back to old Germany for sure and the sights, sounds and food were excellent.  I lived in Germany for 3 years. It was a good assignment. 

You’ve got to take a trip there.

[ChimpGrip]

8 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

I loved Bavaria, a throw back to old Germany for sure and the sights, sounds and food were excellent.  I lived in Germany for 3 years. It was a good assignment. 

You’ve got to take a trip there.

You lived in Deutschland for three years?!?! Too cool! 

 

I must ask, Sprichst du Deutsch und Boarisch? 

[Horsefly]

10 minutes ago, ChimpGrip said:

You lived in Deutschland for three years?!?! Too cool! 

 

I must ask, Sprichst du Deutsch und Boarisch? 

We learned a little, but not boarisch.  We lived in the Rhineland palatinate region, the bulk of the US military community. 

I wish we were able to come back to the states and hone the language skills, but just like our Flemish and Turkish, it was lost once we came back stateside.  Altogether we spent 8 years abroad. (3: Belgium, 3:germany, 2:turkey) 

 

[Hardcore Troubador]

3 hours ago, HSFBfan said:

Well yeah Germany wanted a peace deal with the US so that they could put all their resources into fighting the USSR. They had no intention of fighting the US. I understand it's a general statement but some did care about it happening but what were you gonna do oppose Hitler and get yourself killed. It was a no win for the people of Germany. Even Hitler's own generals well some of them did not want to carry out what they were ordered to do but did to save their own ass. Now there were some generals and we know who they are who full embraced Hitler and his policies. 

Very true.  They all should have opposed it, but living in that totalitarian society and standing up to it is easier said than done.  Like you said even many generals, who we all expect to be willing to sacrifice their lives if need be for what’s right, caved when faced with the decision to go against Hitler.

[HSFBfan]

8 minutes ago, Hardcore Troubador said:

Very true.  They all should have opposed it, but living in that totalitarian society and standing up to it is easier said than done.  Like you said even many generals, who we all expect to be willing to sacrifice their lives if need be for what’s right, caved when faced with the decision to go against Hitler.

Well people are out to save their own necks. And opposing Hitler usually wouldnt keep yourself alive for too long

[ohio]

4 hours ago, Bormio said:

The German people knew.  And closed their eyes.  They did not care.

I was under the impression that most did not know, except the ones living close to the camps.  Even those may or may not have know about gas chambers and torture.

This video shows German civilian locals visiting the camps for the first time,  Be warned its graphic.

 

 

 

 

[AztecPadre]

41 minutes ago, ohio said:

I was under the impression that most did not know, except the ones living close to the camps.  Even those may or may not have know about gas chambers and torture.

This video shows German civilian locals visiting the camps for the first time,  Be warned its graphic.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this.  Found a cool channel to watch old news reels.  Critical Past. 

[Bormio]

The German people were complicit.  They knew, they did not think the lives of Jews were worth a fuss.  Everyone knew, the Jews knew what being taken meant.  Just as slavery is a stain on our country, the Holocaust should follow Germany for generations.

[HSFBfan]

29 minutes ago, Bormio said:

The German people were complicit.  They knew, they did not think the lives of Jews were worth a fuss.  Everyone knew, the Jews knew what being taken meant.  Just as slavery is a stain on our country, the Holocaust should follow Germany for generations.

Hitler did serve up the Jews to the germans as a root of their whole problems and some of the german people really did eat it up. Now do I think that the german people knew that they were being sent to their death idk about that. I think some knew and others were worried about staying alive themselves. 

I have a question why does this country have to be stained by slavery when there were many countries that used slavery? Do they get a stain as well? Or is it just the USA? 

See I think we look at issues of slavery from a moral or ethical bounds not by legality or the business aspect of it. We as a country did not do slavery alone. I'm sure if we look at the numbers it was a multi million dollar industry even in the 1800s america. Egypt and Rome were built on slaves. Japan had slaves. There are still slaves today. My whole point again is does America have to be the only country bearing that stain? 

[Bormio]

26 minutes ago, HSFBfan said:

Hitler did serve up the Jews to the germans as a root of their whole problems and some of the german people really did eat it up. Now do I think that the german people knew that they were being sent to their death idk about that. I think some knew and others were worried about staying alive themselves. 

I have a question why does this country have to be stained by slavery when there were many countries that used slavery? Do they get a stain as well? Or is it just the USA? 

See I think we look at issues of slavery from a moral or ethical bounds not by legality or the business aspect of it. We as a country did not do slavery alone. I'm sure if we look at the numbers it was a multi million dollar industry even in the 1800s america. Egypt and Rome were built on slaves. Japan had slaves. There are still slaves today. My whole point again is does America have to be the only country bearing that stain? 

America was one of the last civilized countries to have slavery.  And we had to suffer through a horrible Civil War to end it.  Finally it was a country founded on the principles of God-given rights - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - while at the same time permitting the owning of slaves.

[HSFBfan]

13 minutes ago, Bormio said:

America was one of the last civilized countries to have slavery.  And we had to suffer through a horrible Civil War to end it.  Finally it was a country founded on the principles of God-given rights - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - while at the same time permitting the owning of slaves.

It was also one of the latest civilized countries to be formed. Yeah the civil war was certainly awful. No denying that. 

But you didn't answer my question? Is it only America that has a stain? Or r you gonna count every country that had slaves because that's a lot of countries. I think considering slavery was outlawed what 150 years ago give or take and in ending it 600k Americans died we remember obv but can we as a society get over it so to speak. We are not gonna change what happened. It was part of society. It was part of business and it was big money. 

 

[Horsefly]

14 minutes ago, HSFBfan said:

It was also one of the latest civilized countries to be formed. Yeah the civil war was certainly awful. No denying that. 

But you didn't answer my question? Is it only America that has a stain? Or r you gonna count every country that had slaves because that's a lot of countries. I think considering slavery was outlawed what 150 years ago give or take and in ending it 600k Americans died we remember obv but can we as a society get over it so to speak. We are not gonna change what happened. It was part of society. It was part of business and it was big money. 

 

In what ways do you think we aren’t over it and haven’t moved on?  

  It’s not as if there are reparations being handed out either to remind us of the pain of slavery.    

[Bormio]

6 minutes ago, HSFBfan said:

It was also one of the latest civilized countries to be formed. Yeah the civil war was certainly awful. No denying that. 

But you didn't answer my question? Is it only America that has a stain? Or r you gonna count every country that had slaves because that's a lot of countries. I think considering slavery was outlawed what 150 years ago give or take and in ending it 600k Americans died we remember obv but can we as a society get over it so to speak. We are not gonna change what happened. It was part of society. It was part of business and it was big money. 

 

What makes it so problematic for us is that our country was founded in opposition to tyranny and our founding fathers eloquently wrote about individual rights, while denying those very rights to the slaves here.  We did right the wrong, but our nation paid a heavy price that continues to the present time.  Our founding fathers were great men and they did much good - but they failed in this one very big area.

[NorCalRuss]

8 hours ago, Horsefly said:

I loved Bavaria, a throw back to old Germany for sure and the sights, sounds and food were excellent.  I lived in Germany for 3 years. It was a good assignment. 

You’ve got to take a trip there.

K-town?

[Horsefly]

Just now, NorCalRuss said:

K-town?

Yes sir

[NorCalRuss]

1 minute ago, Horsefly said:

Yes sir

My sister was there in the late 80s. CID. She loved it and the train that traveled thru all the bordering countries. I was in Germany 4 different times but all short periods while heading to or returning from sand box. I didn’t like it either time but didn’t get to see much. My AA brothers loved being stationed there... I’m sure you know why. I remember Coke Colas where very expensive and very small, warm beer and lot of snow smelled like mildew. 

[Horsefly]

2 minutes ago, NorCalRuss said:

My sister was there in the late 80s. CID. She loved it and the train that traveled thru all the bordering countries. I was in Germany 4 different times but all short periods while heading to or returning from sand box. I didn’t like it either time but didn’t get to see much. My AA brothers loved being stationed there... I’m sure you know why. I remember Coke Colas where very expensive and very small, warm beer and lot of snow smelled like mildew. 

😂.   I knew a lot of folks that were stationed in GE and stayed there.  Overall, it was my third favorite assignment behind Belgium and San Pedro, CA.