concha Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Atticus Finch said: I mean the depths of this guy's embarrassment never ceases. The annual increase to the debt is called.....the deficit. DEBT VS. DEFICITS: WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? The debt is the total amount of money the U.S. government owes. It represents the accumulation of past deficits, minus surpluses. concha gets caught bullshitting, again, and resorts to lazy sophistry that isn't even remotely true. Damn, Andy. Just how fucking stupid and dishonest can you possibly be? From the article (and already posted): FY Deficit (in billions) Debt Increase Deficit/GDP Events 2016 $585 $1,422 3.1% Presidential race 2017 $665 $672 3.4% Trump Tax Act 2018 $779 $1,271 3.8% Deficit spending 2019 $984 $1,203 4.6% Government shutdown 2020 $1,083 $1,181 4.8% Budget before COVID-19 You lose. Again. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: Want me to complete the thought? try......to expose your dishonesty. 1) It's really weird and creepy that you are so desperately dependent on this site that you are the only one of hundreds of members on this site to do this "desperately sift through years-old posts" shit. Regularly. 2) I STILL kick the crap out of you because you aren't smart. And it's FUN. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, concha said: For anyone interested, here's an article about the discussion Andy is trying to dishonestly reference. https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/01/22/the-truth-behind-obamas-job-numbers/ In the Obama years, the unemployment rate kept falling after 2010. That’s great. But the untold story was that the number of people moving from the living room couch into jobs was exceeded by the number who dropped out of the workforce, or, as was the case with millions of 20-somethings, never got a job. The strange thing about the Obama recovery was more jobs and less willing workers. When a person isn’t looking for a job, for whatever reason, they do not get labeled as unemployed. The joke a few years ago was that Obama would shrink the unemployment rate to zero through the magic formula of driving millions out of the workforce. In a world where everyone is living off of welfare or a trust fund, and no one is looking for a job — there are officially no unemployed people. Under Trump, we are experiencing the best of all worlds. Unemployment is down, and the labor force participation rate is finally starting to grow again, albeit still slower than needed. Some 2.3 million more people have entered the workforce under Trump. Part of the rise in the workforce is undoubtedly due to the steady increase in wages, which attracts workers to come off the sidelines. Stephen Moore is a completely discredited clown. He was one of Trump's chief economic advisors. As for the substance of this op-ed, there's not much at all. The steady increase in wages was already happening. Wages Are Increasing, But What's Behind It? The increases are still relatively modest, and the data are still mixed. In October [2016], for example, the Labor Department reported average hourly earnings increased at a 2.8 percent rate — the highest since mid-2009, but wage growth slowed in November. A separate report this month showed the cost of labor — another measure of wage growth — increased especially during the spring of this year. ...... This year, that finally appears to be changing, and Strain and others believe wage growth will continue into next year, chiefly because the supply of labor is declining. The unemployment rate, at 4.6 percent, is near a level economists say is close to a "natural" unemployment rate. That article also talks about the minimum wage increases in several states and municipalities (which you are against) obviously contributing to the rise in wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 This is hilarious. After Trump was elected and took office: Unemployment began to decline after hardly moving for a year or more under Obama. GDP growth improved The stock market boomed Anyone with a measurable IQ can easily verify these simple truths. Only someone as stupid and dishonest as Andy would even attempt to argue them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 17 minutes ago, concha said: And the debt to GDP ratio under Trump barely budged in that time (it grew 5% in Obama's last term, and just 2% under Trump until Covid). Other than that how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 16 minutes ago, concha said: This is what Andy counts as a huge victory. It's a minor one in a long, long history of victories for me against you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 16 minutes ago, concha said: Of course, the actual debate we're having is won (very easily) by me and a ~3,000 point stock market gain. You lie about everything. You routinely get dates, numbers, facts and figures wrong. It's not a one-off. You are incredibly dishonest and/or incompetent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, concha said: Just how fucking stupid and dishonest can you possibly be? Somehow it's my fault that concha doesn't understand the relationship between debt and deficits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: Stephen Moore is a completely discredited clown. He was one of Trump's chief economic advisors. As for the substance of this op-ed, there's not much at all. The steady increase in wages was already happening. Wages Are Increasing, But What's Behind It? The increases are still relatively modest, and the data are still mixed. In October [2016], for example, the Labor Department reported average hourly earnings increased at a 2.8 percent rate — the highest since mid-2009, but wage growth slowed in November. A separate report this month showed the cost of labor — another measure of wage growth — increased especially during the spring of this year. ...... This year, that finally appears to be changing, and Strain and others believe wage growth will continue into next year, chiefly because the supply of labor is declining. The unemployment rate, at 4.6 percent, is near a level economists say is close to a "natural" unemployment rate. That article also talks about the minimum wage increases in several states and municipalities (which you are against) obviously contributing to the rise in wages. https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/354541-labor-market-is-thriving-far-better-under-trump-than-under-obama The author has nothing to do with the MATH behind what happened. Quote During the Obama administration, a major reason the unemployment rate declined was that fewer people were in the labor force because what the BLS calls the labor participation rate continually declined as people gave up the search for a job or retired. For purposes of the official unemployment rate, if you have not looked for a job in the past 30 days, the BLS considers you out of the labor force. Under President Obama, labor participation hit lows last seen in the late 1970s. So rather than a true reflection of labor market strength, the declining unemployment rate was, in great part, a reflection of the declining percentage of people actively looking for work. What we really want to see is a declining unemployment rate with a higher percentage of people working or actively looking for work, indicating a strong and growing economy. Andy isn't good at math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: Other than that how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln? Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: It's a minor one in a long, long history of victories for me against you. You're doing great, Andy. Just keep asking yourself. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: Somehow it's my fault that concha doesn't understand the relationship between debt and deficits. Andy, let me help you continue to embarrass yourself. I'm here for ya, Brah... 😁 FY Deficit (in billions) Debt Increase Deficit/GDP Events 2016 $585 $1,422 3.1% Presidential race 2017 $665 $672 3.4% Trump Tax Act 2018 $779 $1,271 3.8% Deficit spending 2019 $984 $1,203 4.6% Government shutdown 2020 $1,083 $1,181 4.8% Budget before COVID-19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 16 minutes ago, concha said: From the article (and already posted): FY Deficit (in billions) Debt Increase Deficit/GDP Events 2016 $585 $1,422 3.1% Presidential race 2017 $665 $672 3.4% Trump Tax Act 2018 $779 $1,271 3.8% Deficit spending 2019 $984 $1,203 4.6% Government shutdown 2020 $1,083 $1,181 4.8% Budget before COVID-19 You lose. Again. 🤣 Debit increase is sophistry. Something I already mentioned. And this chart doesn't say what you want it to say. FY2017 was Obama's last budget. So unless you are claiming that Trump had higher deficits, and increased the debt more than Obama in that time frame, then you're wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 16 minutes ago, concha said: 1) It's really weird and creepy that you are so desperately dependent on this site that you are the only one of hundreds of members on this site to do this "desperately sift through years-old posts" shit. Regularly. concha always calls his trouncing with the assistance of his own words, "weird and creepy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, concha said: This is hilarious. I know. Reality slaps you in the face and yet here you are still self-owning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, concha said: After Trump was elected and took office: Unemployment began to decline after hardly moving for a year or more under Obama. GDP growth improved The stock market boomed This has all been refuted. Unemployment had been declining for almost a decade GDP growth was basically the same The stock market went up 140% under Obama and about 40% under Trump (pre-COVID-19) In other words, lies, lies and concha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Atticus Finch said: Debit increase is sophistry. Something I already mentioned. And this chart doesn't say what you want it to say. FY2017 was Obama's last budget. So unless you are claiming that Trump had higher deficits, and increased the debt more than Obama in that time frame, then you're wrong. Not sure what debits have to do with things now. You're all over the place. The fact is that the debt burden relative to our economy only made a material move under Trump after Covid hit. Debt-to-GDP: 2012 $16,066 99% Fiscal cliff 2013 $16,738 100% Sequester, government shutdown 2014 $17,824 102% QE ended, debt ceiling crisis 2015 $18,151 100% Oil prices fell 2016 $19,573 104% Brexit 2017 $20,245 104% Congress raised the debt ceiling 2018 $21,516 104% Trump tax cuts 2019 $22,719 106% Trade wars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, concha said: https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/354541-labor-market-is-thriving-far-better-under-trump-than-under-obama The author has nothing to do with the MATH behind what happened. The author for the first, Stephen Moore, worked for Trump and this one, Andy Puzder, was a Trump nominee for Secretary of Labor. You couldn't have found more biased commentary than these two. Somehow a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist for the New York Times is a "propagandist" but Stephen Moore and Andy Puzder are just dandy. The Puzder op-ed is also from 2017. He was a shill for pushing Trump Administration talking points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, concha said: Not sure what debits have to do with things now. I know you don't. You're the guy who didn't understand the relationship between debt and deficits. Then, apparently, didn't know what a fiscal year was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, concha said: You're all over the place. Says the guy who lies and then instead of telling the truth pivots his talking points to match his agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: concha always calls his trouncing with the assistance of his own words, "weird and creepy." Well, I'm kinda beating you ike a $2 hooker AND pointing out what a weird and creepy guy you are. Who else is so utterly and desperately dependent on this site that they sift through YEARS of old posts to (as-often-as-not dishonestly) try to make arguments? Answer: YOU, Andy 🤡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, concha said: The fact is that the debt burden relative to our economy only made a material move under Trump after Covid hit. Debt-to-GDP: 2012 $16,066 99% Fiscal cliff 2013 $16,738 100% Sequester, government shutdown 2014 $17,824 102% QE ended, debt ceiling crisis 2015 $18,151 100% Oil prices fell 2016 $19,573 104% Brexit 2017 $20,245 104% Congress raised the debt ceiling 2018 $21,516 104% Trump tax cuts 2019 $22,719 106% Trade wars Remember that time concha lied about the debt-to-GDP ratio? Good times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Atticus Finch said: The author for the first, Stephen Moore, worked for Trump and this one, Andy Puzder, was a Trump nominee for Secretary of Labor. You couldn't have found more biased commentary than these two. Somehow a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist for the New York Times is a "propagandist" but Stephen Moore and Andy Puzder are just dandy. The Puzder op-ed is also from 2017. He was a shill for pushing Trump Administration talking points. What they are stating is simple math, Andy. If you understand labor participation and unemployment formulas, you'd know that. But you are stupid and suck at math. Tell you what Andy, PROVE that much of the unemployment reduction under Obama had nothing to do with people leaving the labor force. Here's one of the country's major Democrat propaganda networks: https://money.cnn.com/2016/02/06/news/economy/obama-us-jobs/ Your Economy Why doesn't 4.9% unemployment feel great? by Heather Long @byHeatherLongFebruary 6, 2016: 9:36 AM ET There are three key reasons why everyone from Main Street to Wall Street isn't cheering 4.9% unemployment. 1. Fewer adults are working Only 62.7% of adult Americans are working. The so-called Labor Force Participation rate hasn't been this low since the late 1970s. The rate measures how many people over age 16 are working or actively seeking work. All day, Andy. ALL DAY. Beating you like a drum is entertaining. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, concha said: What they are stating is simple math, Andy. They were selling an agenda and being purposefully misleading. A Pulitzer Prize winning journalist publishes factual economic data and then asks liberal and conservative economists for their opinion. That was a "left-wing hit piece" and the writer was a "propagandist." You cite two op-eds by Trump lackeys and don't feel even a tinge of irony. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Finch Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, concha said: Here's one of the country's major Democrat propaganda networks: https://money.cnn.com/2016/02/06/news/economy/obama-us-jobs/ Your Economy Why doesn't 4.9% unemployment feel great? by Heather Long @byHeatherLongFebruary 6, 2016: 9:36 AM ET There are three key reasons why everyone from Main Street to Wall Street isn't cheering 4.9% unemployment. 1. Fewer adults are working Only 62.7% of adult Americans are working. The so-called Labor Force Participation rate hasn't been this low since the late 1970s. The rate measures how many people over age 16 are working or actively seeking work. All day, Andy. ALL DAY. Beating you like a drum is entertaining. 🤣 So now concha posts about people's feelings. How cute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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