noonereal Posted January 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hardcore Troubador said: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.” china seems to be doing just fine understand, it's not so much the style economy employed, it's more about the safe guards put in place and of course, right time and place. Capitalism in it's purest state is a disaster for the average Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, noonereal said: why are you concerned about who is going to pay for it but not about who is gonna pay for the 1.4 trillion tax cut? Agreed. Tax rates aren’t that high historically speaking and even lower when you consider the loopholes (perfectly legal) available to the top earners who make their money outside of typical salaries like us schmoes. Should have kept the taxes the same and focused on regulatory reform agency by agency (repeal, agency rulemaking reform, congress reasserting delegated lawmaking authority) to create a better business environment while keeping taxes as they are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hardcore Troubador said: Agreed. I think it was Thatcher who said that “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.” Sanders’ political and policy views are a house of cards. They’ll fall on their own if you press hard enough. But compared to Trump he at least is consistent. To paraphrase another famous wit “say what you will about the tenets of [...] socialism, at least its an ethos.” But you won’t find me singing hosanas for Cheeto Jesus either. The Master Negotiator®️©️™️ couldn’t negotiate his way out of a paper bag. Like i said I love Trump. Does he have flaws yes but I love the way he does business and he does stand his ground. Sanders touted free education and i dont think he ever stated how he was gonna pay the 75 billion a year. He wanted more regulations on businesses killing more jobs. How is that good?? Trump is cutting red tape daily. Sanders proposed the 1T dollar infrastructure and guess what Trump is going after the same thing. So obv that is needed. But itll depend on whose paying for it or how it is being paid for I guess is the better question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, noonereal said: china seems to be doing just fine understand, it's not so much the style economy employed, it's more about the safe guards put in place and of course, right time and place. Capitalism in it's purest state is a disaster for the average Joe. People in Pinochet’s Chile would agree about unfettered capitalism! But i wouldn’t call China a socialist country anymore in any meaningful sense. Authoritarian State Capitalist perhaps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hardcore Troubador said: People in Pinochet’s Chile would agree about unfettered capitalism! Despite the rich-poor gap there, Chileans enjoy arguably the highest standard of living in Latin America. It's that way because of Pinochet's reforms and a drastic increase since the days of Casto-friend Salvador Allende's socialist misery state. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, concha said: Despite the rich-poor gap there, Chileans enjoy arguably the highest standard of living in Latin America. It's that way because of Pinochet's reforms and a drastic increase since the days of Casto-friend Salvador Allende's socialist misery state. That’s interesting about Chile. I’ll have to read a bit more about it. More wealthy than Uruguay? I was in the latter on vacation two years ago. Very impressed with Montevideo and punta del este. Infrastructure, cleanliness, decent roads, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Hardcore Troubador said: That’s interesting about Chile. I’ll have to read a bit more about it. More wealthy than Uruguay? I was in the latter on vacation two years ago. Very impressed with Montevideo and punta del este. Btw anyone know what happened with Bernies wife?? she was getting sued for like 10 million dollars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted January 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hardcore Troubador said: People in Pinochet’s Chile would agree about unfettered capitalism! But i wouldn’t call China a socialist country anymore in any meaningful sense. Authoritarian State Capitalist perhaps. you would call it? you are making my point. the base economic theory employed is of less importance than is the consideration for the greater good. Both a capitalistic base or socialistic base economy can be rewarding for the masses. Our capitalistic economy is hardly capitalistic as China's socialist economy is hardly socialistic. It's getting away from the extremes of both theories that allow both bases template to thrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted January 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, concha said: Despite the rich-poor gap there, Chileans enjoy arguably the highest standard of living in Latin America. how is that calculated? Seriously. Median, average, subjective criteria weighed in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, noonereal said: you would call it? you are making my point. the base economic theory employed is of less importance than is the consideration for the greater good. Both a capitalistic base or socialistic base economy can be rewarding for the masses. Our capitalistic economy is hardly capitalistic as China's socialist economy is hardly socialistic. It's getting away from the extremes of both theories that allow both bases template to thrive. As you say I think we are both saying the same thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, noonereal said: how is that calculated? Seriously. Median, average, subjective criteria weighed in? Why don't you go research it on your own? You'll get to learn. It won't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted January 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, concha said: Why don't you go research it on your own? You'll get to learn. It won't hurt. Stupid me, I show you too much respect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aZjimbo Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 The guy is a freaking socialist. Fits right in with hussein barry and the rest of the democratic party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted January 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, aZjimbo said: The guy is a freaking socialist. Fits right in with hussein barry and the rest of the democratic party. conha is an a-hole but I would not call him a socialist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aZjimbo Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, noonereal said: conha is an a-hole but I would not call him a socialist Not talking about concha obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlockIsHot Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, aZjimbo said: Not talking about concha obviously. You are a socialist, liberal, snow flake @aZjimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aZjimbo Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 Just now, TheBlockIsHot said: You are a socialist, liberal, snow flake @aZjimbo Yep. That's me to a T. Lmao! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted January 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, TheBlockIsHot said: You are a socialist, liberal, snow flake @aZjimbo nah, he's your run of the litter dessert dweller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlockIsHot Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, noonereal said: nah, he's your run of the litter dessert dweller Total douche canoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarterBlue Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, noonereal said: He insures Trump 7 more years. His message is horrible, running around yelling "free education" for example. Sometimes it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Bernie would give Trump to many anti Bernie votes from moderates who will decide the election. Bernie supporters, in many respects, are suffering from the same maladies that many Trump supporters are. The difference between Trump and Bernie supporters has more to do with individualism versus cooperative solutions. Aside from this, their attraction to either candidate is driven by the same economic forces. The maladies from these economic forces have been brought about under the watch of both mainstream Republican and Democrat Administrations. The include the wholesale offshoring of good, blue collar jobs, stagnation in wages on the lower end, and the retrenchment in benefits offered for full time work. Bernie and Trump supports are reflecting a cry for help. Now there is a great difference between Sanders and Trump. One is decent and has stuck to his positions over the years. The other is a charlatan who has only one core belief: his own personal self enrichment. Now it is probably true that Bernie's policies would not work in the USA. And, it's not because of the countries size. Size has noting to do with it. Rather, the two most important reasons his policies would fail, lie in: A. The overall culture of Americans (rugged individualism, a belief in very limited government, etc.), and B. The fact that the USA is probably the most diverse population on the planet contained within one national border. As one of my sons puts it, you have a lot more empathy for kith and kin than for the stranger. And that is the root of the reason that Norway's policies, which are close to what Bernie advocates, work well in Norway but would not work here. Norway is not just "very white" but most Norwegians have lived in that geographic area for thousands of years. It does not have a large population of Slavs, Italians and Brits within its borders. It is largely populated by "Norwegians." And for that reason, coupled with far more humane social policies, we would never again get mass migration of Norwegians to the USA, regardless of Trump's preferences. Regarding your last paragraph, I don't think you have anything to fear from another Bernie run. I am pretty sure he won't make another bid. On the other hand, his voice is a welcome presence to me. It keeps Democrats honest to some degree. For if Trump is to be replaced by some corporate Democrat Administration, I would just as soon have a more temperate Republican at the helm (as long as its not Trump). If the USA is to avoid the DJT's of the future, certain issues plaguing the working and middle classes of America need to be addressed. Or the next time we may well get a competent person with Trump like autocratic tendencies in charge. And that would be a catastrophe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, DarterBlue said: Bernie supporters, in many respects, are suffering from the same maladies that many Trump supporters are. The difference between Trump and Bernie supporters has more to do with individualism versus cooperative solutions. Aside from this, their attraction to either candidate is driven by the same economic forces. The maladies from these economic forces have been brought about under the watch of both mainstream Republican and Democrat Administrations. The include the wholesale offshoring of good, blue collar jobs, stagnation in wages on the lower end, and the retrenchment in benefits offered for full time work. Bernie and Trump supports are reflecting a cry for help. Now there is a great difference between Sanders and Trump. One is decent and has stuck to his positions over the years. The other is a charlatan who has only one core belief: his own personal self enrichment. Now it is probably true that Bernie's policies would not work in the USA. And, it's not because of the countries size. Size has noting to do with it. Rather, the two most important reasons his policies would fail, lie in: A. The overall culture of Americans (rugged individualism, a belief in very limited government, etc.), and B. The fact that the USA is probably the most diverse population on the planet contained within one national border. As one of my sons puts it, you have a lot more empathy for kith and kin than for the stranger. And that is the root of the reason that Norway's policies, which are close to what Bernie advocates, work well in Norway but would not work here. Norway is not just "very white" but most Norwegians have lived in that geographic area for thousands of years. It does not have a large population of Slavs, Italians and Brits within its borders. It is largely populated by "Norwegians." And for that reason, coupled with far more humane social policies, we would never again get mass migration of Norwegians to the USA, regardless of Trump's preferences. Regarding your last paragraph, I don't think you have anything to fear from another Bernie run. I am pretty sure he won't make another bid. On the other hand, his voice is a welcome presence to me. It keeps Democrats honest to some degree. For if Trump is to be replaced by some corporate Democrat Administration, I would just as soon have a more temperate Republican at the helm (as long as its not Trump). If the USA is to avoid the DJT's of the future, certain issues plaguing the working and middle classes of America need to be addressed. Or the next time we may well get a competent person with Trump like autocratic tendencies in charge. And that would be a catastrophe. This DJT seems to be working very very well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarterBlue Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, HSFBfan said: This DJT seems to be working very very well Is that all you've got? Dream on son, dream on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 minute ago, DarterBlue said: Is that all you've got? Dream on son, dream on. Do you want me to list all of the reason why hes working...I believe I have done so in many posts. If these memos are as big as they are making them out to be Trump will gain even more votes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarterBlue Posted January 19, 2018 Report Share Posted January 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: Do you want me to list all of the reason why hes working...I believe I have done so in many posts. If these memos are as big as they are making them out to be Trump will gain even more votes Yes, it would be a good mental exercise for you. Gotta tighten up and grow the muscles if your going to lose weight and look and feel good. The brain is mostly muscle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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