DarterBlue Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 That no one has started a thread on the fact it now appears that three other Broward Sheriff's deputies, in addition to the School Resource Officer, seemed to have not entered Building 12 for several critical minutes during the carnage last week. I have my own thoughts on this, but am curious to hear what others have to say, if anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thc6795 Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 It is disgusting but not surprising. These are the kind of cowsrds you have entering the force now. Being police isn't worth it anymore. You have mayors and attorney general's who don't support them. The media blasts them. So good qualified people say fuck it. So you get cowards like these four or police who shoot unarmed citizens. That join the force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcaptiron Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 I think there was discussion on it immediately on the 'security guard thread.... I know drummer wants that sheriff fired because he's a lefteeee.....(meme's with Hildabeast and all) LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarterBlue Posted February 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 3 hours ago, dbcaptiron said: I think there was discussion on it immediately on the 'security guard thread.... I know drummer wants that sheriff fired because he's a lefteeee.....(meme's with Hildabeast and all) LOL Ah ha ... I see, the last five or six posts in that thread were devoted to this. And the responses were more or less as I expected they would be. In my opinion and it's opinion only, they miss the point. I will give you my two cents here. In the case of the one guy, the school resource officer, I said I would not condemn him. My reason was simple. People sometimes make bad decisions when confronted with very stressful, unusual circumstances. This, I believe happens regardless of training. In a situation where you know a certain course of action will likely result in the termination of your own life, I can totally understand why a single individual may make the wrong decision, the one he was not trained to make. It is, to my way of thinking, not simply a matter of cowardice, but more so making a very quick decision in the face of "monumental" stress. However, when multiple individuals who should know better make similarly bad decisions, it is indicative of something else. In the other thread, I alluded to the fact that the USA is now, in greater or lesser degrees, depending on location, an I and ME place, not an US and WE one. When this attitude permeates, when it becomes the dominant cultural attribute, things have a tendency of falling apart. For when it is "every man for himself", selflessness (which is required in situations of heroism) quickly vanishes as the morning mist inevitably cedes to the sun. Of course, as Santayana once mused, "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it ..." So it surprises me little that no one seems to recognize this (or perhaps it is lack of acknowledgement and not recognition). My own conclusion is that we are in a bad place, a place where if there is no change of the ship's direction, we must eventually sail off the cliff. I am not particularly optimistic, for to use the title of a song from the 1980's (it was sung by a progeny of Marley), we are: Tomorrow People ... I believe one of its lyrics went ... "where is your past, how long can it last ..." We live in interesting times. Selfishly from my perspective, I am around to see them in the twilight of my life. For while I believe I am still of sound mind and body, my best years have surely past. It is for the youth I grieve, for surely they did not bargain for this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcaptiron Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, DarterBlue said: Ah ha ... I see, the last five or six posts in that thread were devoted to this. And the responses were more or less as I expected they would be. In my opinion and it's opinion only, they miss the point. I will give you my two cents here. In the case of the one guy, the school resource officer, I said I would not condemn him. My reason was simple. People sometimes make bad decisions when confronted with very stressful, unusual circumstances. This, I believe happens regardless of training. In a situation where you know a certain course of action will likely result in the termination of your own life, I can totally understand why a single individual may make the wrong decision, the one he was not trained to make. It is, to my way of thinking, not simply a matter of cowardice, but more so making a very quick decision in the face of "monumental" stress. However, when multiple individuals who should know better make similarly bad decisions, it is indicative of something else. In the other thread, I alluded to the fact that the USA is now, in greater or lesser degrees, depending on location, an I and ME place, not an US and WE one. When this attitude permeates, when it becomes the dominant cultural attribute, things have a tendency of falling apart. For when it is "every man for himself", selflessness (which is required in situations of heroism) quickly vanishes as the morning mist inevitably cedes to the sun. Of course, as Santayana once mused, "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it ..." So it surprises me little that no one seems to recognize this (or perhaps it is lack of acknowledgement and not recognition). My own conclusion is that we are in a bad place, a place where if there is no change of the ship's direction, we must eventually sail off the cliff. I am not particularly optimistic, for to use the title of a song from the 1980's (it was sung by a progeny of Marley), we are: Tomorrow People ... I believe one of its lyrics went ... "where is your past, how long can it last ..." We live in interesting times. Selfishly from my perspective, I am around to see them in the twilight of my life. For while I believe I am still of sound mind and body, my best years have surely past. It is for the youth I grieve, for surely they did not bargain for this. I understand what you are saying with regard to the security guard, and the empathy you show is honorable. But the way I see it, Is that it is those very same 'monumental moments of stress' (where ones true character is tested and revealed) where it is the MOST important to 'do the right thing'. I consider the 'right thing' to be the 'unselfish' thing, especially where lives hang in the balance. I don't condemn the man for having failed, but DO condemn his actions. To offer empathy without first condemning those actions, promotes that very same I/we chasm you bemoan. I think it very possible to do both, and very important to note the difference. I stated in another thread that I am a full on optimist, just because I find myself living a happier life that way. I think one of the reasons you and I have tangled in the past is because of the pessimistic views you repeat here. I hear stuff like this all the time, and it can be hard to try and not let it get you down. But I usually respond to pessimists with something like this...Do you believe you are a good person in this world? Not talking about perfect or always good, but on a whole. If you do and you don't believe your the 'best person in the world' then there are others out there who are just as good. . The world has always had 'bad actors' in it, and unfortunately this is the part that will never change. But the flipside is that logically the world will always have good actors as well.....look for the flipside....they are there. Find and befriend them, and you will find a better, happier place. It is the most important decision you can make in your daily life. You can grieve for the for the future and the children, as you think the trajectory is downhill, but it is at it has always been, a world of good and bad. The children will grow up and make their own way. If you worry about them, then keep them close and teach them this, and lead by example. Surprisingly even the youngest child can understand this concept, and the results will speak for themselves. About the best advise I could offer... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBP66 Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 9 hours ago, DarterBlue said: That no one has started a thread on the fact it now appears that three other Broward Sheriff's deputies, in addition to the School Resource Officer, seemed to have not entered Building 12 for several critical minutes during the carnage last week. I have my own thoughts on this, but am curious to hear what others have to say, if anything. and no mention of this when Wayne Lapiere gave his red meat speech at CPAC convention....humm...he must have forgot that the "good guy with a gun" was there the whole time....what now Wayne/NRA?.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 9 hours ago, thc6795 said: These are the kind of cowsrds you have entering the force now. always were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 34 minutes ago, dbcaptiron said: I understand what you are saying with regard to the security guard, and the empathy you show is honorable. But the way I see it, Is that it is those very same 'monumental moments of stress' (where ones true character is tested and revealed) where it is the MOST important to 'do the right thing'. I consider the 'right thing' to be the 'unselfish' thing, especially where lives hang in the balance. I don't condemn the man for having failed, but DO condemn his actions. To offer empathy without first condemning those actions, promotes that very same I/we chasm you bemoan. I think it very possible to do both, and very important to note the difference. exactly correct see, if you adult you can contribute positively Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarterBlue Posted February 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 38 minutes ago, dbcaptiron said: I consider the 'right thing' to be the 'unselfish' thing, especially where lives hang in the balance. I don't condemn the man for having failed, but DO condemn his actions. To offer empathy without first condemning those actions, promotes that very same I/we chasm you bemoan. The reason for my pessimism is simple. We need only look at our current leadership to see it. And by this, I am not just pointing at the current occupant of the White House, who I regard more as a symptom rather than the cause of our decay. It is very difficult to hold average people to the highest standards when those at the top exhibit no standards of decency at all. Leadership starts, at the top. Things break down when it is lacking ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcaptiron Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, DarterBlue said: The reason for my pessimism is simple. We need only look at our current leadership to see it. And by this, I am not just pointing at the current occupant of the White House who I regard more as a symptom rather than the cause of our decay. It is very difficult to hold average people to the highest standards when those at the top exhibit no standards of decency at all. You are looking to the wrong people.....Look to yourself and those around you. Start and go on from there. Set the standards for yourself that you believe and prefer others follow. Those at 'the top' can never prevent you from doing this, and in the end you might find that the question then becomes.... who is 'really' on top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarterBlue Posted February 25, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 1 hour ago, dbcaptiron said: I think one of the reasons you and I have tangled in the past is because of the pessimistic views you repeat here. It is one of the reasons. You and I have totally different life experiences. This colors, if you will, our respective views of the world. But it is not the only basis for our differences. I have survived to my current age largely because I have always been a realist; I view the world as it is, not as I would like it to be. You don't grow old growing up in a ghetto if you are unable to do this. You have probably had the luxury of being able to get by without doing so ... as Kipling said, "East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet ..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 Sadly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcaptiron Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 25 minutes ago, DarterBlue said: It is one of the reasons. You and I have totally different life experiences. This colors, if you will, our respective views of the world. But it is not the only basis for our differences. I have survived to my current age largely because I have always been a realist; I view the world as it is, not as I would like it to be. You don't grow old growing up in a ghetto if you are unable to do this. You have probably had the luxury of being able to get by without doing so ... as Kipling said, "East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet ..." Did you say you were from Jamaica, or was that someone else? If it was you, then I can tell you that I have been to those ghettos and understand. If you are from mainland USA, then I would put the ghetto of my younger years against yours for a 'who's was worse' comparison any day.... They have made movies of it, the principles in school and even the statues had to carry baseball bats... I have not lost touch either...I will be there tomorrow night. Just an fyi. as I am not trying to 1 up you here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 I honestly believe ALL security personnel (whatever guarded) should be armed with AR-15s.and trimmed with all the tactical gear. Someone tell me why they shouldn't be? Bounty Hunters look more intimidating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat_Scratch Posted February 26, 2018 Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 You can't really blame people for being who they are in a crisis. The 3 personality types in a sudden life threatening situation. Fight, flight or fright. The Fight will take action immediately by evaluation of threat, contain, then take control if possible. The football coach is an example, even though he was shot. The Flight will run or seek cover as an escape, most likely surviving the attack. And the fright personality is the type that end up in the hospital or morgue. They are frozen by fright and rarely are able to seek shelter or run in time to avoid injury. The guard probably was not trained in tactics when engage in a fire fight. The cops have no excuse unless they were trying to figure out how to contain the situation but failed to find or see the shooter. In any case. Put yourselves in their situation and what do you do? Do you know who you hope to be, or do you know who you really are? Remember, it doesn't do anyone any good to rush into a firefight to become wounded or killed. Your best move is to find the shooter and try to find a way to stop him without being shot. It's just not as easy as we want to think it is. The attacker has all the advantages but one, he doesn't know who is going to buck him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcaptiron Posted February 26, 2018 Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 On 2/25/2018 at 8:02 AM, DarterBlue said: It is one of the reasons. You and I have totally different life experiences. This colors, if you will, our respective views of the world. But it is not the only basis for our differences. I have survived to my current age largely because I have always been a realist; I view the world as it is, not as I would like it to be. You don't grow old growing up in a ghetto if you are unable to do this. You have probably had the luxury of being able to get by without doing so ... as Kipling said, "East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet ..." Darter I hope you don't take this as me belaboring any point or banging a drum to much, but I had to revisit this point as having just got back from my old stomping grounds... ..You see in my travels i visited an 'old friend' (who happens to be very much stuck in the past ). And while we were hanging out, his very old playlist belted out this tune ...and i was reminded of your pessimism. It is a very good song (and I'm not pigeonholing myself as a leftist as saying that)...and figuring that since I have not heard it in years, i though it might be appropriate to share....as many younger people, may have never heard this 'song' This is vintage 1987 (Reagan I believe) and as 30+ years old speaks to your pessimistic view of trajectory i think it may show how things (maybe ying/yang balance for lack of a better reference) have always been the same, as in same struggles for balance in the next generations in many regards.....as the song still has resonance today for many.... It does tie into some of the better points we discussed about children....and where does that lead...which is all good, I hope....enjoy... Of course i also thought of nooner (a favorite poster/ragdoll victim of late) given the location and his affection for my place , and being a true follower of music (think he's heard this one before??LOL) . I will probably not bang this pessimism drum any further, (you can play it on loop like any good Marley song if you must), and nooner Ill let you off on that drum as well, since you finally admitted you're 'slightly left' of center LOL . DD should take note, Look at dem white boys, just belting it out in an era where 'first ladies' preached all the evils of those 'Evil Heavy Metal' monsters, causing all those kids to commit suicide....... (yes this is in fact Metal) I think even drummer can appreciate the 'history' in this song... and for everyone else (long trip and i don't want to be) please consider the fact, I found it strikingly poignant (or sheer coincidence ?) how the artist uses an eye roll in that instant... (2:10)..... My 'hot take' on that? Whatever you 'believe'.......'his message' still stands.... cheers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted February 26, 2018 Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 11 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said: It's all starting to make sense now...you're only as good as the company you keep. How young are you, gardenball? 8, maybe 9? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted February 26, 2018 Report Share Posted February 26, 2018 Another sick burn by Herr Chipmunk. #rekt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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