Lakeland is the reason we have super teams in Florida

[Atticus Finch]

2 hours ago, badrouter said:

Buchholz put up the kind of numbers on offense that suggested they'd also light up Lakeland's defense and yet they didn't,

Yes, STA is like Buchholz.

[181pl]

1 hour ago, Atticus Finch said:

Yes, STA is like Buchholz.

play img pussies

[Nulli Secundus]

On 12/18/2023 at 10:29 AM, Nolebull813 said:

Super teams meaning teams with multiple impact D1 transfers that no one can compete with outside of other super teams. So back in the day, Lakeland used to beat STA’s head in like a baby seal to the tune of 4 titles and a 5-1 overall postseason record against STA from 1996-2006. 
 

After 2006, STA said NO MAS!!!!! The South Florida teams started stockpiling talent at break neck speed starting with Miami Northwestern. With a collection of future college and NFL talent MNW wins the high school national title. 
 

Then in 2008, STA loaded at every position with a Broward County All Star team, crushes Lakeland and wins the first of their 2 national titles in 3 years. 
 

STA from 1963-2007 won 3 state championships. Then after stocking super teams, they proceed to win 12 state championships from 2008-2023. 
 

Miami Central from 1964-2009 a grand total of ZERO state championships. From 2010-2023 they win NINE titles!!!

Chaminade from 1964-2016 they win 2 titles. From 2017-2023 they win 6!! 
 

American Heritage won zero from 1981-2012 and then 4 titles since. 
 

These are the 4 top teams in Florida the last decade by far. None of these teams were anything before 2006. You can say STA won 3 but that is in 35 years compared to winning 12 of the last 16. 
 

And it’s all thanks to Lakeland

I strongly disagree with the statement that these schools weren't anything prior to 2006, with the lone exception of MC.  They were known for being the rockets that couldn't lift off, and anyone with knowledge of Dade football would certainly agree.  Dade has long been a county where players "follow" coaches, lol.  Now it's Central's turn.

American Heritage (Plantation), not to be confused American Heritage (Delray), did make one finals appearance to the tune of a 30-13 drubbing by NFC during the Eagles' run in the 90's.  

Chaminade may have only won 2 titles between 1963-2016, but they have been to the finals 4 times in that same span.  

Now I'm hardly one to defend the Raiders but in this situation, to say the Raiders were nothing prior to 2006 is laughable at best.  First, I have to guess you made a slight error in saying that the Raiders only won 3 state championships from 1963-2007 as I know you keep stats on damn near everything, lol.  Now if you had stopped at 2006 you would be correct but including 2007 actually gives them 4.  For the sake of discussion we'll stop at 2006.  One very important detail that you left out is the fact that when STA embarked on one of the best comebacks in FHSAA history in the 2006 finals, this was the Raider's 10th trip to the big dance.  YES, for the people in the back in the room.  10 times! (91, 92, 96, 97, 99, 00, 01, 04, 05, 06).  I would hardly call a program that goes the the finals 10 times in a 16 years nothing.  To put it in perspective, from to 1963-2006, STA was 3-7 and Hillsborough County was 5-9 during that same period.  Secondly, although Lakeland gets notoriety for the amount of times they not only defeated STA but done so in overwhelming fashion, I'd be remiss to not mention the "OTHER" schools that gave the Raiders lumps, bruises and heartaches: (1991 FWB (39-14), 2000 Pine Forest 34-27 (3OT), 2001 Lincoln (28-20). 

Beginning in 2007, the Raiders have gone 12-1 (Thank Lakeland for that lone loss) in the Finals and regardless of how reclassification goes, you can bet the Raiders will find a way to get there.

STA, Chaminade and AH have matured into the inevitability of their "program building".  That was going to happen with or without Lakeland as Broward (much like Duval) is revered for their private schools and the public schools are, well, anyway....😆:  A special round of applause goes to the FHSAA for making it easier than ever to moonwalk to the show.

[badrouter]

2 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

Yes, STA is like Buchholz.

the QB is. In fact, Johnson is possibly better than Indorf. Otherwise, you're appealing to history and name recognition. And, in that case, do Lakeland and Homestead next

[Atticus Finch]

31 minutes ago, badrouter said:

the QB is. In fact, Johnson is possibly better than Indorf. Otherwise, you're appealing to history and name recognition.

Another "if you say so" moment for badrouter.

 

[Atticus Finch]

46 minutes ago, badrouter said:

And, in that case, do Lakeland and Homestead next

I don't care at all about this kind of stuff because I have nothing to prove. The reason why you always have to do this is because Lakeland is constantly trying to get ink off other people.

[badrouter]

18 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

I don't care at all about this kind of stuff because I have nothing to prove. The reason why you always have to do this is because Lakeland is constantly trying to get ink off other people.

How, pray tell, is Lakeland supposedly trying to do this?

Which game(s) from STA's season are supposed to signal to fans that they should be super impressed? 

[Atticus Finch]

3 hours ago, badrouter said:

How, pray tell, is Lakeland supposedly trying to do this?

Do what?

*You* are always trying to get ink for Lakeland off other people because Lakeland never gets it themselves.

Here's an idea. Schedule someone and beat them.

Lakeland hasn't done that in a very long time.

[Atticus Finch]

3 hours ago, badrouter said:

Which game(s) from STA's season are supposed to signal to fans that they should be super impressed? 

As far as I can tell nobody has asked you or anybody else to be super impressed by anything.

Remember, *you* are the one trying to get ink off others. Not me. So you're the one trying to compare Buchholz to STA.

Nobody else is doing this. Just you.

We can probably throw in the other chronically insecure Polk County poster as well. He desperately wants somebody to pay attention to him, too.

[badrouter]

2 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

Do what?

*You* are always trying to get ink for Lakeland off other people because Lakeland never gets it themselves.

Here's an idea. Schedule someone and beat them.

Lakeland hasn't done that in a very long time.

You'd have to explicitly define "someone". And that's the last thing you want to do...because you always want to reserve the right to deny that whoever they schedule and beat is "someone".

A team loaded with Power 5 players in all position groups who loses no game other than Lakeland? They're no one. A team with a defense with 6 starters with Power 5 offers and an elite RB? They're no one. A road game vs. a longtime power with the probable NFL defensive rookie of the year? They're no one. 🤡

[Atticus Finch]

14 hours ago, badrouter said:

You'd have to explicitly define "someone". And that's the last thing you want to do...because you always want to reserve the right to deny that whoever they schedule and beat is "someone".

This is the kind of weasel language that you love to use. First, it's well-known that Lakeland's schedules suck on the regular and that they beat nobody during the regular season. Second, I have no issue defining who those nobodies are.

These are the "best" teams Lakeland has beaten recently.

In 2022, it was 4-loss Osceola (#107).

This year it was 5-loss Bartow (#1117).

The best team Lakeland has beaten in the regular season since the DLS win in 2009 was 3-loss Apopka (#82) in 2021.

There's a reason why you spend the entire offseason trying to convince people that preseason games should count. Lakeland plays so many slapdicks that you need to argue for the value of meaningless games just to get a little bump.

[Atticus Finch]

14 hours ago, badrouter said:

A team loaded with Power 5 players in all position groups who loses no game other than Lakeland? They're no one. A team with a defense with 6 starters with Power 5 offers and an elite RB? They're no one. A road game vs. a longtime power with the probable NFL defensive rookie of the year? They're no one. 🤡

[badrouter]

5 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

This is the kind of weasel language that you love to use. First, it's well-known that Lakeland's schedules suck on the regular and that they beat nobody during the regular season. Second, I have no issue defining who those nobodies are.

These are the "best" teams Lakeland has beaten recently.

In 2022, it was 4-loss Osceola (#107).

This year it was 5-loss Bartow (#1117).

The best team Lakeland has beaten in the regular season since the DLS win in 2009 was 3-loss Apopka (#82) in 2021.

There's a reason why you spend the entire offseason trying to convince people that preseason games should count. Lakeland plays so many slapdicks that you need to argue for the value of meaningless games just to get a little bump.

No. I stated that you do not want to offer the definition of "someone" or "best". And you continue to avoid doing this. Casual observers are left to wonder what things like (#107) and (#82) mean and how they were derived. 

In 2022, they scheduled and beat a team allowed to recruit and house players, which was loaded with Power 5 players in every position group, and which lost zero games to teams not named Lakeland. In 2023, an obvious rebuilding year with a new head coach for the first time in 48 years, they scheduled a team who went unbeaten vs. Dade county teams (won twice over Miami Central) and a team that finished #8 nationally according to the Comp Poll. 

[Atticus Finch]

1 hour ago, badrouter said:

No.

Yes.

[Atticus Finch]

1 hour ago, badrouter said:

I stated that you do not want to offer the definition of "someone" or "best". And you continue to avoid doing this.

Let's haggle about this. Does less than 3 losses work? Does top 100 work? Top 150? Would you prefer I use Massey?

Nothing that I offer would be acceptable to you since you are the king of "because I say so" argumentation.

[Atticus Finch]

1 hour ago, badrouter said:

Casual observers are left to wonder what things like (#107) and (#82) mean and how they were derived. 

I'm open to the argument that those teams aren't actually as good as their ratings and may be overrated.

[Atticus Finch]

1 hour ago, badrouter said:

 In 2022, they scheduled and beat a team allowed to recruit and house players, which was loaded with Power 5 players in every position group, and which lost zero games to teams not named Lakeland.

This is why you're a weasel. You won't tell us the names of these teams because if you did we'd all laugh at you.

If you had a strong argument then you wouldn't have to hide it.

By the way, Clearwater Academy played a slapdash schedule. They played something called Roar Prep. They played TRU Prep Academy twice. They didn't beat a team with less than 4 losses.

The fact that this is your go-to (and you have to hide their identity) is comical.

[Atticus Finch]

1 hour ago, badrouter said:

In 2023, an obvious rebuilding year with a new head coach for the first time in 48 years, they scheduled a team who went unbeaten vs. Dade county teams (won twice over Miami Central) and a team that finished #8 nationally according to the Comp Poll. 

Lost both games by double digits.

But, hey, it's progress.

Going from never scheduling anybody to scheduling them and losing isn't nothing!

[181pl]

img

[badrouter]

4 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

Let's haggle about this. Does less than 3 losses work? Does top 100 work? Top 150? Would you prefer I use Massey?

Nothing that I offer would be acceptable to you since you are the king of "because I say so" argumentation.

First, you'd have to provide your own definition, since you're the one making various claims that I'm arguing over.

As for me, I've already mentioned that Lakeland scheduled, voluntarily, a game with a program who recruits and houses players openly, had Power 5 players in every single position group, won a road game by thirty-one (31) points against a team that played for a South Carolina state title, and lost ZERO games to other teams. I presume you classify them as "nobody".  But, by all means, let us know if the above description suffices to qualify said team as 'somebody'.

I don't think Calpreps, Massey or any other computer-generated national rankings list should be seen as particularly important or meaningful. Any random dummy can see that teams from Florida are severely underrated by calpreps ( I rarely look at Massey and can't say either way for them). 

Whatever criteria you use, it should be stated ahead of time and consistently applied.  

[badrouter]

4 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

I'm open to the argument that those teams aren't actually as good as their ratings and may be overrated.

Like I said, casual observers have no clue what those symbols mean. They wouldn't know if they are rankings or not, where they came from, or how they were derived. I know where they come from, but I am ashamed to say that. 🤣

[badrouter]

4 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

This is why you're a weasel. You won't tell us the names of these teams because if you did we'd all laugh at you.

If you had a strong argument then you wouldn't have to hide it.

By the way, Clearwater Academy played a slapdash schedule. They played something called Roar Prep. They played TRU Prep Academy twice. They didn't beat a team with less than 4 losses.

The fact that this is your go-to (and you have to hide their identity) is comical.

I don't name the team because the entire point of the exchange is to pin you down on objective CRITERIA, rather than appeals to emotion or assumptions.

You also won't name the team(s) that were STA's most impressive wins in 2023.

[Atticus Finch]

16 minutes ago, badrouter said:

First, you'd have to provide your own definition, since you're the one making various claims that I'm arguing over.

OK, let's be generous and say top 200. Either calpreps or Massey.

Deal?

[Atticus Finch]

18 minutes ago, badrouter said:

As for me, I've already mentioned that Lakeland scheduled, voluntarily, a game with a program who recruits and houses players openly, had Power 5 players in every single position group, won a road game by thirty-one (31) points against a team that played for a South Carolina state title, and lost ZERO games to other teams. I presume you classify them as "nobody".  But, by all means, let us know if the above description suffices to qualify said team as 'somebody'.

And we already laughed and gave you a pity acceptance.

I think they're a nobody who plays weird schedules, including playing teams twice in the same year, but you seem very emotional about this so we'll give it to you.

But first you have to actually say their name.

Go ahead.

[Atticus Finch]

20 minutes ago, badrouter said:

I don't think Calpreps, Massey or any other computer-generated national rankings list should be seen as particularly important or meaningful.

Right, because you want to be able to bullshit and present a subjective argument that always favors you.