Lakeland is the reason we have super teams in Florida

[Nolebull813]

Super teams meaning teams with multiple impact D1 transfers that no one can compete with outside of other super teams. So back in the day, Lakeland used to beat STA’s head in like a baby seal to the tune of 4 titles and a 5-1 overall postseason record against STA from 1996-2006. 
 

After 2006, STA said NO MAS!!!!! The South Florida teams started stockpiling talent at break neck speed starting with Miami Northwestern. With a collection of future college and NFL talent MNW wins the high school national title. 
 

Then in 2008, STA loaded at every position with a Broward County All Star team, crushes Lakeland and wins the first of their 2 national titles in 3 years. 
 

STA from 1963-2007 won 3 state championships. Then after stocking super teams, they proceed to win 12 state championships from 2008-2023. 
 

Miami Central from 1964-2009 a grand total of ZERO state championships. From 2010-2023 they win NINE titles!!!

Chaminade from 1964-2016 they win 2 titles. From 2017-2023 they win 6!! 
 

American Heritage won zero from 1981-2012 and then 4 titles since. 
 

These are the 4 top teams in Florida the last decade by far. None of these teams were anything before 2006. You can say STA won 3 but that is in 35 years compared to winning 12 of the last 16. 
 

And it’s all thanks to Lakeland

[181pl]

Agreed for most part. Miami northwestern and Booker T. Washington were excellent teams in the mid-2000s, probably better than St. Thomas. MNW especially. But with the 2008 STA super team that marked the point when they surpassed Miami schools  and other sf privates. Miami central has probably been the better team here or there but by and large for the last 15 seasons, St. Thomas is the cream of the crop in Florida outside of your anomaly here or there.  They’ve had occasional close losses to a Miramar or BTW in the regular season, a few oos losses and Lakeland with the Bowman crew but that’s it. 

[954gator]

22 minutes ago, 181pl said:

Agreed for most part. Miami northwestern and Booker T. Washington were excellent teams in the mid-2000s, probably better than St. Thomas. MNW especially. But with the 2008 STA super team that marked the point when they surpassed Miami schools  and other sf privates. Miami central has probably been the better team here or there but by and large for the last 15 seasons, St. Thomas is the cream of the crop in Florida outside of your anomaly here or there.  They’ve had occasional close losses to a Miramar or BTW in the regular season, a few oos losses and Lakeland with the Bowman crew but that’s it. 

BTW better than STA in the 00s?   

[181pl]

BTW,l had a national championship team and they beat STA. So yes. But not overall. Just here and there.

[Atticus Finch]

Remember, Nolebull813 is also the guy who claimed that STA's run would be over in 2017 after the Legislature passed the the law that allowed free transfers between public schools across district lines. They just won their state record 5th state championship in a row.

So it's not surprising to note that his take here is almost entirely inaccurate.

I'll have to go point-by-point on this because his post is so riddled with falsehoods.

[Atticus Finch]

3 hours ago, Nolebull813 said:

After 2006, STA said NO MAS!!!!!

The first graduating class in school history that had double digit (10) D-1A/FBS signees was the class of 2006 which enrolled in the 2002-03 school year. The only two who didn't enroll as Freshmen were Marcus Lind, who moved from overseas, and Brett Swenson, who was a kicker who transferred from Cardinal Gibbons.

The next graduating class (2007) fell just short of double digits with 9. That class only had three that enrolled after their Freshmen year and they were all Sophomores (Wesley Carroll, Leonard Hankerson and Major Wright).

In other words, the two greatest classes in school history, back-to-back, had every single member enrolled by August 2004. So not a single player came after the first of the three straight Lakeland matchups that happened that year.

This is a totally bogus claim.

[Atticus Finch]

4 hours ago, Nolebull813 said:

The South Florida teams started stockpiling talent at break neck speed starting with Miami Northwestern. With a collection of future college and NFL talent MNW wins the high school national title. 

This is what it looks like when you draft a theory first and then search for support for it afterwards.

What does a graduating class at Northwestern have to do with Lakeland? They've never played each other and are several hours apart in totally different media markets.

This is a bizarre claim even for you.

[Atticus Finch]

4 hours ago, Nolebull813 said:

Then in 2008, STA loaded at every position with a Broward County All Star team, crushes Lakeland and wins the first of their 2 national titles in 3 years. 

The 2008 team was not loaded at every position. At least not like you're claiming. If nobody could compete with that team than it was because it was just a special group of players/coaches/circumstances.

A lot of Ivy Leaguers and just some really good high school players on that team.

[Atticus Finch]

4 hours ago, Nolebull813 said:

STA from 1963-2007 won 3 state championships. Then after stocking super teams, they proceed to win 12 state championships from 2008-2023. 

This is how you lie with numbers.

STA won *4* state championships from *1992* to 2007.

They then won *11* from 2008 to 2023.

[Atticus Finch]

4 hours ago, Nolebull813 said:

Miami Central from 1964-2009 a grand total of ZERO state championships. From 2010-2023 they win NINE titles!!!

Chaminade from 1964-2016 they win 2 titles. From 2017-2023 they win 6!! 

American Heritage won zero from 1981-2012 and then 4 titles since. 

Again, it's just really bizarre to link these to Lakeland. It's also a clear rewriting of history.

Central just wrested away a bunch of kids that would have gone to Northwestern. Then they hired their coach (Roland Smith). It has see-sawed back and forth like that since.

Chaminade won 2 titles in 2003 and 2005. Then their administration neutered the football program likely because the parents of the Nativity and Little Flower kids complained about the transfers and move-ins. Then in 2016 they got serious again and hired Dameon Jones to make them competitive.

American Heritage has always been an athletic powerhouse. They had just never won in football before really starting to take it seriously in the late 2000's. They just hired a bunch of South Florida football stars (Jeff Dellenbach, Mike Rumph, Patrick Surtain) to elevate the program.

Just no truth whatsoever to anything you're saying.

[Atticus Finch]

4 hours ago, Nolebull813 said:

These are the 4 top teams in Florida the last decade by far. None of these teams were anything before 2006. You can say STA won 3 but that is in 35 years compared to winning 12 of the last 16. 

This is one of my favorite claims that you made.

STA had 10 state championship appearances after the 2006 season. I believe that was the record at the time.

But they were "nobody."

😄

[Atticus Finch]

2 hours ago, 181pl said:

Agreed for most part.

You can always count on 181pl to enthusiastically agree with a totally inaccurate post.

[Atticus Finch]

1 hour ago, 181pl said:

BTW,l had a national championship team and they beat STA. So yes. But not overall. Just here and there.

BTW is 1-3 all-time vs. STA and the one win was by one play in 2016.

What are you talking about?

[181pl]

STA did not play booker T when they came on like gangbusters from say 2005 to 2008 or nine. Then BTW goes 42-1 with three straight state championships and a national title between 2012 and 2014. So see what you want, but Booker T. was a heck of a program. I would favor those teams over STA from 06 and 07 and in 2012-2014. 

[Atticus Finch]

3 minutes ago, 181pl said:

So see what you want, but Booker T. was a heck of a program. 

I never said they weren't. 

I just corrected you and asked what the hell you were talking about.

[badrouter]

Lakeland never had THAT many transfers in the 2000s. They had a couple high impact transfers. But, it was literally...a couple. Not 10 or 20 or 30 like is now common.

Regardless, I think all of this can be attributed to Lebron James, Chris Bosh and Dewayne Wade (the Miami Heat super teams following "the decision"); John Calipari at Kentucky and lastly AAU/youth league basketball. Those folks popularized the idea of super teams; it doesn't matter that they were in a different sport.

Recruiting and "super teams" are ubiquitous because the very idea is highly popular with players and parents alike. To end or significantly reduce the phenomenon, it'd have to become much less popular. I have no idea how to get to that point, or if it's even poosible.

[badrouter]

As long as "super teams" are popular, the schools located near the greatest density of talent- metro South Florida is that- will have a major leg up whether they are public or private. The advantage the private schools (the biggest and best, anyway) have is they attract highly motivated families, largely in part because they don't tolerate milieu-destroying behaviors that public schools are required by law to tolerate.*

*They are required by law to tolerate such behaviors because the law requires kids up to a certain age to be in some school, somewhere at all times and no matter what. A kid who punches their teacher in the face may be "expelled" from that school, but they HAVE to turn up at another school and quickly.

[Nolebull813]

2 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

Remember, Nolebull813 is also the guy who claimed that STA's run would be over in 2017 after the Legislature passed the the law that allowed free transfers between public schools across district lines. They just won their state record 5th state championship in a row.

So it's not surprising to note that his take here is almost entirely inaccurate.

I'll have to go point-by-point on this because his post is so riddled with falsehoods.

I don’t remember saying their run will end. I do remember saying that the publics will finally be able to play by the same rules as the privates. 
 

The biggest gripe was privates can get kids from an unlimited area, whereas the public’s could only play with their zoned neighborhood kids. I know some schools got transfers via school choice and magnet programs, but the new law allowed public’s to not be handcuffed. 
 

Kinda funny 2017 is the year you mention, and 2018 was the year Lakeland pummeled STA for a 5th time in the finals 

[Nolebull813]

I just think it’s funny the rise of super teams started the year after Lakeland went on their historic run of 3 straight titles, 50 plus game winning streak and beat STA all 3 titles in the finals 

[Nolebull813]

1 hour ago, Atticus Finch said:

This is one of my favorite claims that you made.

STA had 10 state championship appearances after the 2006 season. I believe that was the record at the time.

But they were "nobody."

😄

Appearances is code for getting beat by Lakeland so many times something has got to give. The formula worked. You guy almost have as much as Washington,SD, Lol

[Atticus Finch]

10 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

whereas the public’s could only play with their zoned neighborhood kids. 

This was never true and is clearly contradictory to the very claims you made in *this* thread about Central and Northwestern.

[Atticus Finch]

11 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

Kinda funny 2017 is the year you mention, and 2018 was the year Lakeland pummeled STA for a 5th time in the finals 

What does this have to do with anything? Lakeland has proven that once a decade they can awaken from their slumber and have a team that can beat STA. But only if they're undefeated and one of the best teams in school history. Otherwise, they don't show up.

[Atticus Finch]

11 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

I just think it’s funny the rise of super teams started the year after Lakeland went on their historic run of 3 straight titles, 50 plus game winning streak and beat STA all 3 titles in the finals 

But it didn't.

You were proven wrong.

Even if it did you'd still not know the difference between correlation and causation.

Either way you're flailing to make a point.

[Atticus Finch]

20 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

Appearances is code for getting beat by Lakeland so many times something has got to give. The formula worked. You guy almost have as much as Washington,SD, Lol

Had a losing record (3-4) against everybody else, too. So it wasn't just a Lakeland thing even though you desperately want it to be.

[badrouter]

2 hours ago, Atticus Finch said:

What does this have to do with anything? Lakeland has proven that once a decade they can awaken from their slumber and have a team that can beat STA. But only if they're undefeated and one of the best teams in school history. Otherwise, they don't show up.

You're really just talking about 2012-2016. Before that, they were a major player every year (1996-2011). After that, with the school choice changes that were implemented ahead of the 2017 season, I'd argue there were five different seasons where Lakeland would have been capable of beating STA.

2017: Lakeland choked vs. Plant, but STA had its weakest team of the last 20 years.

2018: Lakeland beat STA by two touchdowns

2019: Lakeland had a huge transfer pull and added a Power 5 deep threat at WR to compliment Bowman while STA had a soph QB. STA would be favored, but only in retrospect and only by a modest enough margin that everyone would still have acknowledged Lakeland could've conceivably won.

2022: Even Larry Blustein agrees that Lakeland had the best defense in the state. Two Power 5 OLs to go with two Power 5 WRs would've given them the chance to get enough done to win a game

2023: Lakeland had the weapons to score points on anyone (both Norland and SJP had the most points scored against them by Lakeland). STA would've piled up the points, too. But, as we saw with Buchholz, if the QB run game isn't a threat, the defense was able to hang in a little better than they did against arguably the two most prolific dual-threat QBs in the country. STA being defeated at home by Cocoa, and narrowly beating Homestead, reveals the Raiders weren't in vintage form this season. Lakeland played the tougher schedule, and was severely impacted by injuries and suspension throughout the season.