HSFBfan Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 I have asked this to people several times but I cant seem to get an answer......Why do we care about Israel so much? Do we get anything from Israel in terms of trade? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: I have asked this to people several times but I cant seem to get an answer......Why do we care about Israel so much? Do we get anything from Israel in terms of trade? The Israelis are on the cutting edge of biotech and computer technology. Wayze (sp?) that gps type thing is an Israeli invention for example. they also are a close military ally and provide intelligence in that region of the world. theyre also a democracy in a barbaric part of the world and, you know, we’re kinda in to supporting that thing wherever we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted March 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, Hardcore Troubador said: The Israelis are on the cutting edge of biotech and computer technology. Wayze (sp?) that gps type thing is an Israeli invention for example. they also are a close military ally and provide intelligence in that region of the world. theyre also a democracy in a barbaric part of the world and, you know, we’re kinda in to supporting that thing wherever we can. I use WAZE all the time. I love that app. So basically are they using the USA as a security blanket? Doesnt Israel have one of the best militaries in the world? Cant they protect themselves?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: I have asked this to people several times but I cant seem to get an answer......Why do we care about Israel so much? Do we get anything from Israel in terms of trade? Read “Start-up Nation”. The Israelis are some of the toughest and smartest SOBs you’ll ever meet. Very entrepreneurial and hardworking, they push constantly and are always starting new business ventures in developing fields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted March 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, Hardcore Troubador said: Read “Start-up Nation”. The Israelis are some of the toughest and smartest SOBs you’ll ever meet. Very entrepreneurial and hardworking, they push constantly and are always starting new business ventures in developing fields. I agree with you so why cant they protect themselves?? Cant we spend less money protecting other countries and than you have more money to fix this country? Didnt the USA start up Israel? Like i said i have a million questions on this relationship and why people care for it so much 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, HSFBfan said: I use WAZE all the time. I love that app. So basically are they using the USA as a security blanket? Doesnt Israel have one of the best militaries in the world? Cant they protect themselves?? Dude do you watch the news? Israel has killed Iranian nuke scientists, launched cyber warfare against Iranian nuke facilities, and will bomb Iran if they feel threatened. All while Obama and Trump have done jack. They don’t need our protection. They know what’s at stake for them in that region of the world if they lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Smdh is all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted March 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hardcore Troubador said: Dude do you watch the news? Israel has killed Iranian nuke scientists, launched cyber warfare against Iranian nuke facilities, and will bomb Iran if they feel threatened. All while Obama and Trump have done jack. They don’t need our protection. They know what’s at stake for them in that region of the world if they lose. Exactly like I said they can protect themselves. They dont need the USA. And i have agreed with everything you have said. I try to stay away from the news. Ill watch fox news for a bit then jump over to fox business then jump over to OANN. How many billions if not trillions of dollars does the United States spend on these relationships with other countries? Our biggest AF base is in Rammstein Germany. How much money does it cost to keep these bases around the world operational? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: I agree with you so why cant they protect themselves?? Cant we spend less money protecting other countries and than you have more money to fix this country? Didnt the USA start up Israel? Like i said i have a million questions on this relationship and why people care for it so much Fair enough. Asking questions is a good start. What are your thoughts in our relationahip with them? Why do you think it’s a big part of our foreign policy? israel was founded after WW2. The US did not start it but did recognize the govt early on along with other nations. But the Israelis and European Jews who immigrated there founded it themselves. Basically carved that thing out of a hostile desert in the middle of a region that wants to wipe them off the map. There was a lot of fighting. It’s also the start of the whole Palestinian conflict. It’s an impressive story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted March 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, Hardcore Troubador said: Fair enough. Asking questions is a good start. What are your thoughts in our relationahip with them? Why do you think it’s a big part of our foreign policy? israel was founded after WW2. The US did not start it but did recognize the govt early on along with other nations. But the Israelis and European Jews who immigrated there founded it themselves. Basically carved that thing out of a hostile desert in the middle of a region that wants to wipe them off the map. It’s an impressive story. I think its ridiculous that we care so much. They have a very good military from what I understand. Some of the best commandos in the world. They can take care of themselves. They seem to be able to take care of Palestine and Iran as you have pointed out and I agreed with those points. Yes i have heard that as well in your second paragraph thanks for the clarification on that point. maybe though thats why they are hated in that part of the country because they carved themselves out of the desert? Was it their land to take? Whose land was it? I believe it was Palestine right? Idk why we spend so much resources over there let Israel take care of their own problems. They have the resources to do it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: I think its ridiculous that we care so much. They have a very good military from what I understand. Some of the best commandos in the world. They can take care of themselves. They seem to be able to take care of Palestine and Iran as you have pointed out and I agreed with those points. Yes i have heard that as well in your second paragraph thanks for the clarification on that point. maybe though thats why they are hated in that part of the country because they carved themselves out of the desert? Was it their land to take? Whose land was it? I believe it was Palestine right? Idk why we spend so much resources over there let Israel take care of their own problems. They have the resources to do it There was no “Palestine” as such. It’s not like they deposed a Palestinian government and took the country. It was ruled by the British and the Israelis basically told them to F off (that and a few bombs) and started Israel. The whole thing about it not being their land is moot at this point. The Israelis are there. Israel is there. Neither is going anywhere and the Palestinians have to accept that as a starting point and work with that understanding. It’s like if a Lenni Lenape Indian came to your home and said this was my ancestors land I want it back. Or if the Indians said they want manhattan back because we stole it. Like it’s done. You have to move on and work within reality not how you wish the world was. I get it’s easier said than done, but enough is enough already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: I think its ridiculous that we care so much. They have a very good military from what I understand. Some of the best commandos in the world. They can take care of themselves. They seem to be able to take care of Palestine and Iran as you have pointed out and I agreed with those points. Yes i have heard that as well in your second paragraph thanks for the clarification on that point. maybe though thats why they are hated in that part of the country because they carved themselves out of the desert? Was it their land to take? Whose land was it? I believe it was Palestine right? Idk why we spend so much resources over there let Israel take care of their own problems. They have the resources to do it Well you say we “care so much”. What do you mean by that? Serious question looking for concrete examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted March 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Hardcore Troubador said: There was no “Palestine” as such. It’s not like they deposed a Palestinian government and took the country. It was ruled by the British and the Israelis basically told them to F off (that and a few bombs) and started Israel. The whole thing about it not being their land is moot at this point. The Israelis are there. Israel is there. Neither is going anywhere and the Palestinians have to accept that as a starting point and work with that understanding. It’s like if a Lenni Lenape Indian came to your home and said this was my ancestors land I want it back. Or if the Indians said they want manhattan back because we stole it. Like it’s done. You have to move on and work within reality not how you wish the world was. I get it’s easier said than done, but enough is enough already. Well yes when you put it that way I again have to agree with you but I guess Palestine believes they have the right to that land and they will continue to fight for that land. Ill put it this way I love our military i come from military ancestors. And i understand we at one point were the police of the world. But im starting to think that time is starting to end. We need to go back to worrying about our country and not so much what palestine and israel is doing. That is their problem. Everywhere we have been we have left a base. How many billions of dollars to keep our troops supplies and bases operating over there. Like i said I dont want to see a depletion of our military as I see that as a very big mistake But maybe we can bring those troops home and put those bases here in America until they deploy to a place of conflict. Maybe that cant happen logistically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted March 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hardcore Troubador said: Well you say we “care so much”. What do you mean by that? Serious question looking for concrete examples. Its always a talking point. You hear about USA-Israel relations all of the time. Its always in the news. The POTUS and the PM always meet on one platform or another. I just feel like people in this country or at least politically seem to care if this relationship seems strong and going rather than just let it go and say hey were going to worry about the USA and your on your own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: Well yes when you put it that way I again have to agree with you but I guess Palestine believes they have the right to that land and they will continue to fight for that land. Ill put it this way I love our military i come from military ancestors. And i understand we at one point were the police of the world. But im starting to think that time is starting to end. We need to go back to worrying about our country and not so much what palestine and israel is doing. That is their problem. Everywhere we have been we have left a base. How many billions of dollars to keep our troops supplies and bases operating over there. Like i said I dont want to see a depletion of our military as I see that as a very big mistake But maybe we can bring those troops home and put those bases here in America until they deploy to a place of conflict. Maybe that cant happen logistically. It’s a tough part of the world but the Palestinians have a weak hand and play it very badly. They are their own worst enemies in many ways. In all honesty I admit some bias (though I think the Israelis are right anyway) due to my wife being Jewish and her having Israeli family that still lives there outside of Tel Aviv. So when the topic comes up at the Jewish holidays or family comes to visit there are opinions that lean one way but I’ve also read enough on my own to think they happen to be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted March 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, Hardcore Troubador said: It’s a tough part of the world but the Palestinians have a weak hand and play it badly. They are their own worst enemies in many ways. In all honesty I admit some bias (though I think the Israelis are right anyway) due to my wife being Jewish and having Israeli family that still lives there outside of Tel Aviv. So when the topic comes up at the Jewish holidays or family comes to visit there are opinions that lean one way but I’ve also read enough on my own to think they happen to be right. Thats fine. Im not looking on whose side of the palestine israel conflict. Doesnt impact me one bit. Im asking just from a USA Israel relationship. if a country like Israel can take care of their own than please do and we can spend our money on other things. Same thing in Germany. We dont need our AF base there. Germany is big enough to be able to handle their own affairs. Im not attacking Israel in anyway please dont think that but im just saying in a world were most countries have a very sufficient military cant we spend our resources on other things and tell these leaders hey listen we respect you or whatever but you have to do it on your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: Thats fine. Im not looking on whose side of the palestine israel conflict. Doesnt impact me one bit. Im asking just from a USA Israel relationship. if a country like Israel can take care of their own than please do and we can spend our money on other things. Same thing in Germany. We dont need our AF base there. Germany is big enough to be able to handle their own affairs. Im not attacking Israel in anyway please dont think that but im just saying in a world were most countries have a very sufficient military cant we spend our resources on other things and tell these leaders hey listen we respect you or whatever but you have to do it on your own. Thing is those bases aren’t there really to protect Germany as an example or anywhere else, at least not since the USSR fell. We have those bases to protect American interests and project American power. Bases in Germany or the Middle East allow us to get forces there quickly in case we need to instead of flying from Andrews Air Force Base in the US. Also if troops are injured it’s easier to get them to Germany than the US from the Middle East. we are the worlds largest economy so allowing us to have naval bases in the pacific for example let us protect the sea lanes for shipping and American business in the face of Chinese aggression (like when they want to build and claim those fake islands in the South China Sea and potentially disrupt commerce). Or when the Iranians try and shut down oil from the gulf that we and the world need (remember how integrated the economy is). An oil crisis for example may harm Europe worse than us, but that also harms American business and affects real peoples jobs). what did Jack Nicholson’s character say in “The Departed?” “Heavy lies the crown?” You’re damn right, and we’re the king. Be proud! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted March 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, Hardcore Troubador said: Thing is those bases aren’t there really to protect Germany as an example or anywhere else. We have those bases to protect American interests and protect American lower. Bases in Germany or the Middle East allow us to get forces there quickly in case we need to instead of flying from Andrews Aor Force Base in the US. Also if Tripp’s are injured it’s easier to get them to Germany than the IS from the Middle East. we are the worlds largest economy so allowing us to have naval bases in the pacific for example let us protect the sea lanes for shipping and American business in the face of Chinese aggression (like when they want to build and claim those fake islands in the South China Sea and potentially disrupt commerce). Or when the Iranians try and shut down oil from the gulf that we and the world need (remember how integrated he coming is). An oil crisis for example may harm Europe but that also harms American business and affects real peoples jobs). So basically its all logistics. And what i was implying cant be done. Thats fine. At least their is a rationale reason as to why we spend billions on these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan in daytona Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: I have asked this to people several times but I cant seem to get an answer......Why do we care about Israel so much? Do we get anything from Israel in terms of trade? The Jewish lobby in the U.S. is as strong as any. Many influential and wealthy Americans are of Jewish descent and don't shy away from letting their feelings known to our policymakers. They also have a western style democracy , not unlike ourselves, in a sea of totalitarian and often brutally conservative Moslem regimes. They give us a stable toehold in an area of great oil wealth. This alone can't be under valued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted March 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 minute ago, dan in daytona said: The Jewish lobby in the U.S. is as strong as any. Many influential and wealthy Americans are of Jewish descent and don't shy away from letting their feelings known to our policymakers. They also have a western style democracy , not unlike ourselves, in a sea of totalitarian and often brutally conservative Moslem regimes. They give us a stable toehold in an area of great oil wealth. This alone can't be under valued. Yeah i know. Look at Schumer. I bet you more than some people have a very big problem with this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 minute ago, HSFBfan said: So basically its all logistics. And what i was implying cant be done. Thats fine. At least their is a rationale reason as to why we spend billions on these things. Yeah I saw your earlier post. You were correct. More than just logistics though, there are real vital interests at stake in keeping those troops there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted March 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, Hardcore Troubador said: Yeah I saw your earlier post. You were correct. More than just logistics though, there are real vital interests at stake in keeping those troops there. One of the biggest problems at least how i look at is is how interconnected this world is. Leaders need to worry about their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardcore Troubador Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: One of the biggest problems at least how i look at is is how interconnected this world is. Leaders need to worry about their own. Yes I do agree that we’re often sold out by lazy politicians who don’t always have our best interests at heart. But you can’t turn back the clock either. Like with the Palestinian land dispute - the world is what it is not what you want it to be. Hell, even Trump has business interests on the Middle East and “That Country That Shall Not Be Named.” Technology, travel, etc. makes for a global economy and community. Gotta find your place in it and work hard and you’ll be ok 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted March 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 Just now, Hardcore Troubador said: Yes I agree. But you can’t turn back the clock either. Like with the Palestinian land dispute - the world is what it is. Technology, travel, etc. makes for a global economy and community. Gotta find your place in it and work hard and you’ll be ok 👍 I think your screwed no matter what and if your telling me this is how the world is and will only get worse future generations are absolutely screwed in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted March 5, 2018 Report Share Posted March 5, 2018 56 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: I use WAZE all the time. I love that app. So basically are they using the USA as a security blanket? Doesnt Israel have one of the best militaries in the world? Cant they protect themselves?? doesn't it get lost to often? My Waze did so I scraped it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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