The Pope abolishes hell

[Bormio]

Tells La Republicca that “it does not exist” and condemned souls just disappear.  Sounds like the Catholic school nuns need to get their ruler out.

[HSFBfan]

2 minutes ago, Bormio said:

Tells La Republicca that “it does not exist” and condemned souls just disappear.  Sounds like the Catholic school nuns need to get their ruler out.

So that hot dog i ate on a friday during lent will not send me to hell lol

[Bormio]

Can’t wait to see the backtracking on this.

[Bormio]

Vatican says it is fake news.  Apparently left-wing news sites in Italy make shit up too.

[TheBlockIsHot]

He needs to abolish right wingers!

[noonereal]

34 minutes ago, Drummer61 said:

The Vatican stated that this source, a 93 year old Athist, misquoted the Pope and  kept "no notes"....to verify......

HolyThursday, I need to visit 3 churches tonight. 

[noonereal]

13 minutes ago, Drummer61 said:

Casino Church.......Pompano Beach, no smoking....

and I am not the good Christian here.... but still, I show respect for my heritage by honoring customs 

 

[Eddyr2]

5 hours ago, Bormio said:

Vatican says it is fake news.  Apparently left-wing news sites in Italy make shit up too.

the "reporter" wasn't doing an interview but was just having a private meeting with the Holy Father...He is know for misquoting the Pope and has admitted to it. And if you read the "quote" it seems more like the pope was saying there was not physical Hell, which is a common thought by Catholic theologians. Beyond that the Holy Father was not speaking "ex cathedra" so even if he did say it, it is not binding.

[World Citizen]

27 minutes ago, Eddyr2 said:

the "reporter" wasn't doing an interview but was just having a private meeting with the Holy Father...He is know for misquoting the Pope and has admitted to it. And if you read the "quote" it seems more like the pope was saying there was not physical Hell, which is a common thought by Catholic theologians. Beyond that the Holy Father was not speaking "ex cathedra" so even if he did say it, it is not binding.

I understand the Catholic Theologians do not believe in a physical hell.  But I would guess, bc I have not taken a poll, that most Catholics (common person) believe in a physical place people go to.  Do you think That is an incorrect guess?  Fascinating topic to me and am interested in your take.  

Thanks.

[Eddyr2]

19 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

I understand the Catholic Theologians do not believe in a physical hell.  But I would guess, bc I have not taken a poll, that most Catholics (common person) believe in a physical place people go to.  Do you think That is an incorrect guess?  Fascinating topic to me and am interested in your take.  

Thanks.

I would say most Catholics understand that Hell and Heaven are not physical places if you explain to them what you mean. Catholic tend to be more "yes and" when it comes to theology, even "common folk"*. If you said "is Hell a real place?" most will say "yes" but if you follow up with "So it's below us and there is fire and the Devil is poking you?" they would most likely answer "No, it not like that. It's isn't here on earth." So even if they don't fully understand what they are saying they are inline with common Catholic theology. 

*by "common folk" i mean Catholics who go to at least weekly Mass. I am not counting someone who left the church at 12 and hasn't been back.

 

[World Citizen]

1 minute ago, Eddyr2 said:

I would say most Catholics understand that Hell and Heaven are not physical places if you explain to them what you mean. Catholic tend to be more "yes and" when it comes to theology, even "common folk"*. If you said "is Hell a real place?" most will say "yes" but if you fallow up with "So it's below us and there is fire and the Devil is poking you?" they would most likely answer "No, it not like that. It's isn't here on earth." So even if they don't fully understand what they are saying they are inline with common Catholic theology. 

*by "common folk" i mean Catholics who go to at least weekly Mass. I am not counting someone who left the church at 12 and hasn't been back.

 

Thank you.  I can agree with what you said.  

Imho or not so humble depending on who you ask, I see religious people in 'general' have an extremely literal view of religious teaching.  Maybe Catholics are inheritanly more open philosophically than say other Christian denominations.  I haven't questioned very many Catholics about these things.  

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

Well good, so that means just hell on earth in the form of marriage. 

[Eddyr2]

19 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

Thank you.  I can agree with what you said.  

Imho or not so humble depending on who you ask, I see religious people in 'general' have an extremely literal view of religious teaching.  Maybe Catholics are inheritanly more open philosophically than say other Christian denominations.  I haven't questioned very many Catholics about these things.  

I can't speak for other Christians but Catholics relay on both "Faith and Reason" (see St Thomas Aquinas and St Augustine). Here is what the Church officially teaches on Hell. As you can see it doesn't not speak about a physical place but someone choosing to live outside of God's love:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2O.HTM

IV. Hell

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."⁶¹⁰ Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.⁶¹¹ To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.⁶¹²Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"⁶¹³ and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"⁶¹⁴

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."⁶¹⁵ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."⁶¹⁶

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."⁶¹⁷

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;⁶¹⁸ for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance":⁶¹⁹

Father, accept this offering

from your whole family.

Grant us your peace in this life,

save us from final damnation,

and count us among those you have chosen.⁶²⁰

 

 

---

610 1 ⇒ Jn 3:14-15.

 

 

611 Cf. ⇒ Mt 25:31-46.


612 Cf. ⇒ Mt 5:22, ⇒ 29; ⇒ 10:28; ⇒ 13:42, ⇒ 50; ⇒ Mk 9:43-48.


613 ⇒ Mt 13:41-42.


614 ⇒ Mt 25:41.


615 Cf. DS 76; 409; 411; 801; 858; 1002; 1351; 1575; Paul VI, CPG # 12.


616 ⇒ Mt 7:13-14.


617 LG 48 # 3; ⇒ Mt 22:13; cf. ⇒ Heb 9:27; ⇒ Mt 25:13, ⇒ 26, ⇒ 30, ⇒ 31 ⇒ 46.


618 Cf. Council of Orange II (529): DS 397; Council of Trent
   (1547):1567.


619 ⇒ 2 Pet 3:9.


620 Roman Missal, EP I (Roman Canon) 88.

[noonereal]

23 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

Maybe Catholics are inheritanly more open philosophically than say other Christian denominations

Trust me, they are not. 

 

[Eddyr2]

33 minutes ago, noonereal said:

Trust me, they are not. 

 

that comment is not open philosophically 

[Bormio]

The Vatican does not say what the error or misquote was.  Really a non-denial denial.  Also the part about souls just disappearing - souls are eternal - whether in heaven or hell.  People are asking “Is the Pope Catholic?”.  A better question would be “Is the Pope Christian?”.

[World Citizen]

4 hours ago, Eddyr2 said:

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."⁶¹⁵ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

Thanks.

I interpret that to say they do believe that hell is a place, just not in this world.  You have to descend to somewhere.  Chief punishment, is the aspect of hell which is the worst part, out of many.  Any type of punishment is going to have aspects of it that are worse than other aspects. 

I wonder if you had all the Bishops and Cardinals and Theologians and asked them the same question, what would they say, behind close doors that is.  Do they believe what they are teaching?  All dogma aside.  I am not expecting you to have answers to this I'm just thinking digitally. 

[World Citizen]

38 minutes ago, Bormio said:

The Vatican does not say what the error or misquote was.  Really a non-denial denial.  Also the part about souls just disappearing - souls are eternal - whether in heaven or hell.  People are asking “Is the Pope Catholic?”.  A better question would be “Is the Pope Christian?”.

Hmmm.  He is one of a small few of leaders who actually tries to live like Christianity teaches.  He does that very humbly and with sincerity.  I do not care what policy the church puts forward or doesn't.  I just see a kind man. 

A more relevant question would be "are Evangelical and Trump supporters Christian?" 

I'll help you.  NO they are not.  Very few are if you go by actions and words. 

 

[Eddyr2]

5 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

Thanks.

I interpret that to say they do believe that hell is a place, just not in this world.  You have to descend to somewhere.  Chief punishment, is the aspect of hell which is the worst part, out of many.  Any type of punishment is going to have aspects of it that are worse than other aspects. 

I wonder if you had all the Bishops and Cardinals and Theologians and asked them the same question, what would they say, behind close doors that is.  Do they believe what they are teaching?  All dogma aside.  I am not expecting you to have answers to this I'm just thinking digitally. 

If hell is a physical place or not is not officially defined so Catholic are allow to disagree on that point. Catholics are a “yes and”  people. I went to a meeting last year with over 200 bishops (3 who are Cardinal, including Cardinal Sarah, look him up) and there is some disagreement on some points. Again in the Catholic Church if something is not officially denied there can be debate as long and that debate doesn’t conflict with something else that is defined.

the point is that hell not something  that God send us too. It’s a choice, we choice to be selfish and to live for ourselves and God allows it. Hell is to be alone, in that way one can experience hell (and heave) on earth. 

Anyways hard to talk about here, easier to explain in person.

here is a better explanation the I can give:

 

[Eddyr2]

54 minutes ago, Bormio said:

The Vatican does not say what the error or misquote was.  Really a non-denial denial.  Also the part about souls just disappearing - souls are eternal - whether in heaven or hell.  People are asking “Is the Pope Catholic?”.  A better question would be “Is the Pope Christian?”.

Yes to both questions.

[World Citizen]

4 minutes ago, Eddyr2 said:

If hell is a physical place or not is not officially defined so Catholic are allow to disagree on that point. Catholics are a “yes and”  people. I went to a meeting last year with over 200 bishops (3 who are Cardinal, including Cardinal Sarah, look him up) and there is some disagreement on some points. Again in the Catholic Church if something is not officially denied there can be debate as long and that debate doesn’t conflict with something else that is defined.  This is what I was getting at was how much room there was to debate ideas.  Thanks.  That sounded like a really interesting meeting.

the point is that hell not something  that God send us too. It’s a choice, we choice to be selfish and to live for ourselves and God allows it. Hell is to be alone, in that way one can experience hell (and heave) on earth. 

Anyways hard to talk about here, easier to explain in person.  That's why I'm careful who I let in my house to talk religion with if I am bored.  There is some smooth talkers out there.  Seriously, I have yet to convert a single one of them. 

here is a better explanation the I can give:

 

   Good stuff brother. 

Another thing.  God gave us free will to choose but if the choice is either God or Hellfire, it really isn't much of a choice.   To me anyway.  It's like "Love me or else" kind of thing and that seems too limiting of Gods mercy and love.   At least the humans I've met can barely love themselves let alone their neighbor and are a mess of contradictions and are ego driven.   My money would be on God's forgiveness than on people making the right choice.  Forever. 

 

 

[Eddyr2]

19 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

   Good stuff brother. 

Another thing.  God gave us free will to choose but if the choice is either God or Hellfire, it really isn't much of a choice.   To me anyway.  It's like "Love me or else" kind of thing and that seems too limiting of Gods mercy and love.   At least the humans I've met can barely love themselves let alone their neighbor and are a mess of contradictions and are ego driven.   My money would be on God's forgiveness than on people making the right choice.  Forever. 

 

 

Some Catholics feel hell is crowded some feel it’s almost empty...no official teaching...I fall inline with the “it's reasonable to hope all men are saved” thought...

 

[noonereal]

4 hours ago, Eddyr2 said:

I fall inline with the “it's reasonable to hope all men are saved”

God Bless.