steeler01 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Columbiafan said: I do take stats into account to a extent But I'm not going to make LeBron better than Jordan just because some stats by LeBron are better in a more offensive happy league Defenses have never been better than they are today. The league went away from ISO ball though, which created no player movement. 1 hour ago, Columbiafan said: And honestly can you name 1 team in the east run that LeBron had of 8 straight eastern conference wins that would have been able to beat the bad boy pistons The 2012 Celtics would do just fine, especially in todays rules against that team. With the 80's rules, who would guard Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett in ISO plays? 1 hour ago, Columbiafan said: But realistically speaking, has LeBron faced anyone in this east run at the level of the pistons teams that used to beat Jordan apart? See above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooverOutlaw Posted May 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 This is why LeBron is not a all time great team winner. Jordon built a dynasty at the Bulls. Bird at Boston. Magic at LA. No other greats will put up with LeBron's crap. He does not have ability to unite a group of players long term at a high level. What Bill Russell had LeBron lacks. Other great who have what LeBron lacks Derek Jeter, Larry Bird, Ken Stabler, Wayne Gretzy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler01 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 Can anyone imagine if the NFL had rules that you had to play man on WR's and double team the WR before the play or there would be a penalty for illegal defense? Then in 2001 the NFL said, you can do whatever you want on defense, and people saying that defense before was much better and tougher before the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HooverOutlaw Posted May 31, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, steeler01 said: Defenses have never been better than they are today. The league went away from ISO ball though, which created no player movement. The 2012 Celtics would do just fine, especially in todays rules against that team. With the 80's rules, who would guard Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett in ISO plays? See above 80's rules they would just tackle. The Celtics 0f the 80's and the bad boys pistons would physically beat up LeBron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, steeler01 said: Can anyone imagine if the NFL had rules that you had to play man on WR's and double team the WR before the play or there would be a penalty for illegal defense? Then in 2001 the NFL said, you can do whatever you want on defense, and people saying that defense before was much better and tougher before the rule. No it was tougher because of teams like the pistons would have no problem taking your head off in the paint Doubt players these days could last long getting slammed like they did back then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 9 minutes ago, steeler01 said: Defenses have never been better than they are today. The league went away from ISO ball though, which created no player movement. The 2012 Celtics would do just fine, especially in todays rules against that team. With the 80's rules, who would guard Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett in ISO plays? See above Never been better?? I would like to see who if anyone today would have the balls to go into the paint against bad boy pistons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler01 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, HooverOutlaw said: 80's rules they would just tackle. The Celtics 0f the 80's and the bad boys pistons would physically beat up LeBron. The Pistons physically were using hard fouls, due to the no flagrant fouls. Anyone thinking that Rodman,Sally, Bird, or Johnson are going to beat up Lebron are delusional. The meanest of the bad boys https://youtu.be/-G1_JdvSs3w Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler01 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Columbiafan said: No it was tougher because of teams like the pistons would have no problem taking your head off in the paint Doubt players these days could last long getting slammed like they did back then You keep using one team. So one team and their dirty tactics in the 80s make defenses from the 90s and 80s tougher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 21 minutes ago, steeler01 said: Total yards is longevity. I don't use stats like that to say LBJ is the GOAT. LBJ is the GOAT cause no player influences a basketball game in so many ways like he does/has. Jordan was a scorer first and foremost, and played in the perfect era for his skill set(The illegal defense ISO age). And yet no one can stop comparing LeBron to Jordan Even LeBron biggest fans can't let lebron escape his shadow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, steeler01 said: You keep using one team. So one team and their dirty tactics in the 80s make defenses from the 90s and 80s tougher? It may be illegal now but it was part of the game in that era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler01 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Columbiafan said: Never been better?? I didn't stutter. I just gave a perfect football analogy 1 minute ago, Columbiafan said: I would like to see who if anyone today would have the balls to go into the paint against bad boy pistons Yea, because a guy that's 6'8 260 is going to be bullied by some 6'5 208 pound guy(Dantley). Iso ball, would leave the paint wide open 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, steeler01 said: You keep using one team. So one team and their dirty tactics in the 80s make defenses from the 90s and 80s tougher? And the fact of the matter is i use that one team because I don't need to use any others to make my argument Fact of matter is none of these east teams LeBron has beaten would have been able to beat those 80s pistons in a 7 game series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler01 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Columbiafan said: It may be illegal now but it was part of the game in that era It was legal up until 91. Yet, you keep using them as a staple of Jordan's era. He didn't beat the Pistons during that timeframe. You use the 90's and this rough defense, and the rules you cite aren't even legal in that timeframe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler01 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Columbiafan said: And the fact of the matter is i use that one team because I don't need to use any others to make my argument Fact of matter is none of these east teams LeBron has beaten would have been able to beat those 80s pistons in a 7 game series I just gave you a team with 3 sure shot HOF and one other that is on the border that would have a great chance at beating the Pistons. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, steeler01 said: It was legal up until 91. Yet, you keep using them as a staple of Jordan's era. He didn't beat the Pistons during that timeframe. You use the 90's and this rough defense, and the rules you cite aren't even legal in that timeframe. The dominate pistons teams were prior to 91, in fact did they even win a championship in the 90s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler01 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 Give me a team in the EAST in the 90's tougher than the 2012 Celtics. Hell give me a team in the 90s NBA better than the 2011 Mavericks, 2012 Thunder, 2013-2014 Spurs, and the 2015-2018 Warriors. Anyone that says the Knicks is an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler01 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Columbiafan said: The dominate pistons teams were prior to 91, in fact did they even win a championship in the 90s Exactly, yet, you are using this team to prop up toughness in the 90s, and the defense of the 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, steeler01 said: Give me a team in the EAST in the 90's tougher than the 2012 Celtics. Hell give me a team in the 90s NBA better than the 2011 Mavericks, 2012 Thunder, 2013-2014 Spurs, and the 2015-2018 Warriors. Anyone that says the Knicks is an idiot. 96-98 bulls for one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, steeler01 said: I just gave you a team with 3 sure shot HOF and one other that is on the border that would have a great chance at beating the Pistons. . 2012 Celtics? Did they still have Ray Allen or was this the year Ray Allen won a ring with the heat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler01 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Columbiafan said: 96-98 bulls for one Give me a team that's not the Bulls I'll add. Since were using opponents of each teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler01 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Columbiafan said: 2012 Celtics? Did they still have Ray Allen or was this the year Ray Allen won a ring with the heat Yes they had him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeler01 Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 Here's your top teams Top of my head starting units Supersonics Kemp Payton Sam Perkins Detlef Schrempf Kendall Gill Suns Kevin Johnson Barkley Majerle Oliver Miller Danny AInge Blazers Buck Williams Terry Porter Clyde Drexler Duckworth Other guy escapes me Knicks Oakley Ewing Starks Mason Ward I think Rockets Olajuwon Thorpe Vernon Maxwell Mario Ellie Sam Cassell 2nd time they added Clyde and lost Vernon Maxwell Heat Tim Hardaway Zo Mourning Voshon Leonard 2 other players Magic(Lost to them, and then added Rodman) O' Neal Penny Hardaway Dennis Scott Horace Grant Last guy escapes me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbiafan Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, steeler01 said: Here's your top teams Top of my head starting units Supersonics Kemp Payton Sam Perkins Detlef Schrempf Kendall Gill Suns Kevin Johnson Barkley Majerle Oliver Miller Danny AInge Blazers Buck Williams Terry Porter Clyde Drexler Duckworth Other guy escapes me Knicks Oakley Ewing Starks Mason Ward I think Rockets Olajuwon Thorpe Vernon Maxwell Mario Ellie Sam Cassell 2nd time they added Clyde and lost Vernon Maxwell Heat Tim Hardaway Zo Mourning Voshon Leonard 2 other players Magic(Lost to them, and then added Rodman) O' Neal Penny Hardaway Dennis Scott Horace Grant Last guy escapes me Several good squads there It's the definition of talent being spread out, these days their only a few good teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
954gator Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 Have a feeling it'll go to 7. I dunno just a hunch $$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
954gator Posted May 31, 2018 Report Share Posted May 31, 2018 14 minutes ago, steeler01 said: Magic(Lost to them, and then added Rodman) O' Neal Penny Hardaway Dennis Scott Horace Grant Last guy escapes me The infamous choke on the line... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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