DarterBlue Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 hour ago, 15yds4gibberish said: Another part of the problem is that maybe, just maybe, Crime Family Don doesn't fully understand the nuances of trade policy... Can someone please explain to "Tariff Man" the basic fact that consumers, not foreigners, pay tariffs? A tariff is a tax on us. It's not quite that simple. The cost is borne both by the consumer and the countries the tariffs are imposed on. It all depends on the relative elasticity of demand for the products the tariffs are imposed on and the ability of local sources to fill the void with supply. What is fairly certain is that overall demand will probably go down somewhat and prices will probably rise to a degree, but not necessarily by as much as the tariffs imposed. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 2 hours ago, HSFBfan said: I was and darterblue knows I was in. I made some money and got out. I didn't really enjoy the time I was in it. It was a lot of stress and it didnt really move quickly. When I jumped in I had the idea that I could make some money quick and jump out. Didnt happen like that at all. I have interest in a lot of things that I dont involve myself in @ohio waiting for some kind of response lol What you did was a short term trend trade. Something that I do often myself. The thing with trend trading is that you have to be keeping an eye on them and know what you are doing (especially getting out in a losing trade), and that can be stressful to some. However, most investors are long term, or buy and hold investors. Some buy individual stocks like Microsoft and hold on to them for decades as they increase in value. But most buy mutual funds (a collection of stocks through a broker). Not only do investors buy these mutual funds, but most IRAs and 401Ks also contain mutual funds in addition to other investments. So you may be invested in mutual funds if you have either of these. Now there are also instraments called ETFs, that too play a collection of stocks and/or stock indexes like mutual funds but are similar to stocks. They are treated just like the MPX that you bought and sold, but people usually hold on to them for a long time. The two most popular ones have symbols QQQ and SPY. And some are more volatile like TQQQ. For example had you bought a 100 shares of SPY for a total of $8700 in 2009 afer the market crash; your SPY would be worth $27,000 as of today. However if you were bold and bought $8700 of highly leveraged TQQQ on the first day it opened, in 2010, your $8700 investment would be worth $212, 000 as of today. So these investments do add up, and the best part is that you don't need to do any work except buy them after a crash. This is on of the main reasons that the investment class is getting rich, while wage earners are stagnant. However, a word of caution. The market has gone up signicantly in the last 10 years and does not have much room to grow. My suggestion is to wait till we have another market crash like in 2009 before you invest in the market. Then if you wish, buy a no load index mutual fund, like a Magellan S&P 500 fund or one of the ETFs mentioned above and hold on for years as they will double or triple your money or even more as in with the TQQQ. It is something you may want to think about as you start to get yourself established in the future. I'm gonna call it a night, let me or DarterBlue know if you have any questions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 16 hours ago, noonereal said: What's the deal Mr President? Freakin orange mess. the deal is you speak of things that you have no freaking clue about, and try super hard to sound intelligent.....instead you sound just as you speak.....a freaking mess that only sees orange.... 13 hours ago, noonereal said: Trump is gonna collapse this country in many different ways... we know you are hoping.... just as super hard. Be sure to let us know when it collapses, then you might have some real news to spread. 12 hours ago, noonereal said: Muller will be fired. Not quit sure why that has not yet occurred. stroking you crystal balls again? they working a little slow for you today? Keep stroking and maybe you will get there soon.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 16 hours ago, ron169 said: Damn, I lost some money. Tomorrow Ill make it back. If not tomorrow, next week, month, year or decade. Thank god im 20 years from retiring, it allows me not to care about swings in the stock. Im guessing your not as fortunate as me to have a while to make it back. EVERYONE that was paying attention, knew that the market was going to TANK today.... The market trades on Rumors and 'sells' on the actual news... The rumors were strong enough for today, that whether even true or not, the market was going to show it... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 12 hours ago, 15yds4gibberish said: Another part of the problem is that maybe, just maybe, Crime Family Don doesn't fully understand the nuances of trade policy... Can someone please explain to "Tariff Man" the basic fact that consumers, not foreigners, pay tariffs? A tariff is a tax on us. Actually, most tariiffs (including the ones you reference) are designed to prevent unequal trade balances wherein one country dumps product on another, under that countries cost, preventing that countries ability to perform in the market... So it's 'no tax' (as your 'pet name' describes) and NO industry.....or balanced trade... Maybe YOU should actually try to understand the "nuances of trade policy", before you go trying to explain it to everyone else... BTW: if you want to consider it a 'tax' on YOU...then consider it a 'tax' that keeps you from 'selling out' your country....to the cheapest bidder... Yes Nuance expert...that's kind of how it works... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 11 hours ago, ohio said: What you did was a short term trend trade. Something that I do often myself. The thing with trend trading is that you have to be keeping an eye on them and know what you are doing (especially getting out in a losing trade), and that can be stressful to some. However, most investors are long term, or buy and hold investors. Some buy individual stocks like Microsoft and hold on to them for decades as they increase in value. But most buy mutual funds (a collection of stocks through a broker). Not only do investors buy these mutual funds, but most IRAs and 401Ks also contain mutual funds in addition to other investments. So you may be invested in mutual funds if you have either of these. Now there are also instraments called ETFs, that too play a collection of stocks and/or stock indexes like mutual funds but are similar to stocks. They are treated just like the MPX that you bought and sold, but people usually hold on to them for a long time. The two most popular ones have symbols QQQ and SPY. And some are more volatile like TQQQ. For example had you bought a 100 shares of SPY for a total of $8700 in 2009 afer the market crash; your SPY would be worth $27,000 as of today. However if you were bold and bought $8700 of highly leveraged TQQQ on the first day it opened, in 2010, your $8700 investment would be worth $212, 000 as of today. So these investments do add up, and the best part is that you don't need to do any work except buy them after a crash. This is on of the main reasons that the investment class is getting rich, while wage earners are stagnant. However, a word of caution. The market has gone up signicantly in the last 10 years and does not have much room to grow. My suggestion is to wait till we have another market crash like in 2009 before you invest in the market. Then if you wish, buy a no load index mutual fund, like a Magellan S&P 500 fund or one of the ETFs mentioned above and hold on for years as they will double or triple your money or even more as in with the TQQQ. It is something you may want to think about as you start to get yourself established in the future. I'm gonna call it a night, let me or DarterBlue know if you have any questions. I have no questions as I will never invest in the market again. I have no issue talking about it but I'll never put my money in it again. It's a waste of time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 23 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: I have no questions as I will never invest in the market again. I have no issue talking about it but I'll never put my money in it again. It's a waste of time That's fine if you don't want to play the Vegas game feeling 'short stacked'.... But to think that would degrade the value of 'investment' and such..... would be a very bad takeaway from the experience. One of the 'upsides' of the market, Is that it does allow the masses easy access to investment, in many cases on par and similar to the same opportunities as the big boys... Of course money runs towards intelligence....and away from stupidity......a good thing to remember, if you are going to roll the dice... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Just now, Troll said: That's fine if you don't want to play the Vegas game feeling 'short stacked'.... But to think that would degrade the value of 'investment' and such..... would be a very bad takeaway from the experience. One of the 'upsides' of the market, Is that it does allow the masses easy access to investment, in many cases on par and similar to the same opportunities as the big boys... Of course money runs towards intelligence....and away from stupidity......a good thing to remember, if you are going to roll the dice... This would be my advice if you wanna make money and you can somewhat control it bet on the horses. You can double or triple your money in about 90 seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarterBlue Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 29 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: I have no questions as I will never invest in the market again. I have no issue talking about it but I'll never put my money in it again. It's a waste of time That is patently false. My "trading account" is approximately $500,000. About 75% of that (after accounting for withdrawals) is from trading gains and dividends. Yes, this is over a 28 year period. But in the last five years I have withdrawn more than $100,000 from these accounts to finance "retirement" spending and help pay for my son's marriage in China, as well as give the couple a small start in life. What is true, is that it is very HARD WORK. Now if you are not willing to work hard at it, then you are totally correct: it is not for you! 1 minute ago, Troll said: Of course money runs towards intelligence....and away from stupidity......a good thing to remember, if you are going to roll the dice... Bingo!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Just now, DarterBlue said: That is patently false. My "trading account" is approximately $500,000. About 75% of that (after accounting for withdrawals) is from trading gains and dividends. Yes, this is over a 28 year period. But in the last five years I have withdrawn more than $100,000 from these accounts to finance "retirement" spending and help pay for my son's marriage in China, as well as give the couple a small start in life. What is true, is that it is very HARD WORK. Now if you are not willing to work hard at it, then you are totally correct: it is not for you! Bingo!! Like I said complete waste of time. You took 28 years to make whatever money you made. If I'm gonna invest in something I would like an immediate return on my money. Like I said bet on the horses. You can easily triple your money in about 10 minutes if you know what your doing and what your looking at. The market you have no control over. Its gonna do whatever it Is its gonna do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, DarterBlue said: What is true, is that it is very HARD WORK. Now if you are not willing to work hard at it, then you are totally correct: it is not for you! Bingo!! I was going to flat out tell you to short hard yesterday....Did you even note my thought???🤔 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueliner Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Troll said: the deal is you speak of things that you have no freaking clue about, and try super hard to sound intelligent.....instead you sound just as you speak.....a freaking mess that only sees orange.... we know you are hoping.... just as super hard. Be sure to let us know when it collapses, then you might have some real news to spread. stroking you crystal balls again? they working a little slow for you today? Keep stroking and maybe you will get there soon.... These statements are common. It’s the “ you just wait and see defense/offense” ...depending on the argument. Been happening for over two years now. DBP is the master at making these statements than falling on his face when NONE of them actually come true. Nor and Bigdrop are close seconds. Among so many other dooozies, we’re still waiting for the nuclear holicaust Trump was gonna start with N. Korea.🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Blueliner said: These statements are common. It’s the “ you just wait and see defense/offense” ...depending on the argument. Been happening for over two years now. DBP is the master at making these statements than falling on his face when NONE of them actually come true. Nor and Bigdrop are close seconds. Among so many other dooozies, we’re still waiting for the nuclear holicaust Trump was gonna start with N. Korea.🤣 Most people turn red.... or sometimes even purple.... When they hold their breath... Some people just turn...well...orange.. Like their favorite fruit... Pumpkin's!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarterBlue Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, Troll said: I was going to flat out tell you to short hard yesterday....Did you even note my thought???🤔 I never closed the PUTS. Reason? Despite the strong six day rally, the averages were still below their November peak which were below their October peak. So, all the major indices by the way I define it are still in a downtrend. Now this downtrend is not as pronounced as it was the day after Thanksgiving, but based on my rules it was still intact and, therefore, the short position did not need to be covered. For the first time since I initiated the trade, the position was in the red as of Monday's close. But that was quickly corrected Tuesday. To my way of thinking the next four trading days (through next Tuesday), should define whether this weakness is over for the intermediate term or whether the downtrend is still clearly intact. Being a position trader (trend trader), I have to make this play out before I take further action. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarterBlue Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 22 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: This would be my advice if you wanna make money and you can somewhat control it bet on the horses. You can double or triple your money in about 90 seconds. What you are not understanding is that in the markets, if you possess a degree of skill, you can attain a positive expectation for each trade or investment you make. In the lingo of statistics, you expected win is > 0. In the world of horse racing, it is hard to have an expected win >0, as the house takes too much off the top prior to calculating the odds on each pony. Thus to be successful with the horses, you need very reliable inside information plus the discipline to stay on the sidelines when you do not have this information. I am not saying it cannot be done, but it actually takes more skill than being successful in the market. Take this from someone who has played both games with a degree of success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, DarterBlue said: I never closed the PUTS. Being a position trader (trend trader), I have to make this play out before I take further action. Good for you...👍 Funny thing with trend trading....I did it a bunch...but never got so deep as to invest in the downside... Always thought it was more fun (and harder) to predict the up spikes... Never felt like I was taking advantage or anything...betting on the house side... Markets, or individual stocks etc., can be much more easily manipulated downward...than vice versa... just food for thought, no ill intentions... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, DarterBlue said: What you are not understanding is that in the markets, if you possess a degree of skill, you can attain a positive expectation for each trade or investment you make. In the lingo of statistics, you expected win is > 0. In the world of horse racing, it is hard to have an expected win >0, as the house takes too much off the top prior to calculating the odds on each pony. Thus to be successful with the horses, you need very reliable inside information plus the discipline to stay on the sidelines when you do not have this information. I am not saying it cannot be done, but it actually takes more skill than being successful in the market. Take this from someone who has played both games with a degree of success. I've done well with the ponies. If I had a bigger cashflow I could do very well. You dont need inside information. You have to find the bias on the track. Look at jockeys win %. Its a big insight into how the track works. Every track has some sort of a bias. Some more than others. Take belmont I can't figure out that track so I stay away. Meadowlands and monmouth I do very well at. If someone gave me a 1000 dollars I bet anything I would walk out of the track with a good profit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, DarterBlue said: What you are not understanding is that in the markets, if you possess a degree of skill, you can attain a positive expectation for each trade or investment you make. In the lingo of statistics, you expected win is > 0. In the world of horse racing, it is hard to have an expected win >0, as the house takes too much off the top prior to calculating the odds on each pony. Thus to be successful with the horses, you need very reliable inside information plus the discipline to stay on the sidelines when you do not have this information. I am not saying it cannot be done, but it actually takes more skill than being successful in the market. Take this from someone who has played both games with a degree of success. In laymen's terms... Over time.. you average a return net gain in the market...vs a mathematically guaranteed return loss on the horses... So basically the 'better odds' argument is a falsehood...or down in flames... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: I've done well with the ponies. If I had a bigger cashflow I could ….. This may be true ….then good for you too LOL... But this is EXACTLY where the point of money following 'intelligence' comes into play... ...nothing to do with odds..... Of course it should be easier to see how some could apply what you say to the 'market' …… Any 'trend' trader is not actually playing for or against the house.....he's playing the 'audience'... Smart grasshopper.... ….and I have always played the market as a 'contrarian'... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Troll said: This may be true ….then good for you too LOL... But this is EXACTLY where the point of money following 'intelligence' comes into play... ...nothing to do with odds..... Of course it should be easier to see how some could apply what you say to the 'market' …… Any 'trend' trader is not actually playing for or against the house.....he's playing the 'audience'... Smart grasshopper.... ….and I have always played the market as a 'contrarian'... See horse players esp ones that are new to the track get caught up in the tote board and it's so funny to hear. While the track is screwing you with you to get people to bet equal across the board. I have a little bit of a system that I have proven to multiple people that it works. And it's such a simple system. I took my brother to the meadowlands we won something like 6 out of 7 races and we left because people were catching on that we would win every race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: If someone gave me a 1000 dollars I bet anything I would walk out of the track with a good profit If true....then you are wasting your time at the track... Series 7's are easy to get, and if you can put up with 'sales' for a bit, you would do well applying that same type of intelligence to the market... ...oh...and better odds...🤣 Just sayin'...👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Troll said: If true....then you are wasting your time at the track... Series 7's are easy to get, and if you can put up with 'sales' for a bit, you would do well applying that same type of intelligence to the market... ...oh...and better odds...🤣 Just sayin'...👍 Please explain more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Just now, HSFBfan said: Please explain more . Series 7 is essentially the license to be able to sell stock... Sales jobs are just that....and that is generally the entry pathway to wall street... ….and basically where you live, if you have a series seven, you have a commute and a job... Sure would suck for a few years, but if you can decipher track odds verses reality and be able to call the difference out enough to top the mathematical odds, then you could probably do very well on wall street... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Troll said: . Series 7 is essentially the license to be able to sell stock... Sales jobs are just that....and that is generally the entry pathway to wall street... ….and basically where you live, if you have a series seven, you have a commute and a job... Sure would suck for a few years, but if you can decipher track odds verses reality and be able to call the difference out enough to top the mathematical odds, then you could probably do very well on wall street... Yeah its not something I'm interested in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, HSFBfan said: Yeah its not something I'm interested in. Certainly understandable.....went for an interview in Manhattan...… …...ONCE! …..🤣 . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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