NorCalRuss Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 5 hours ago, Horsefly said: The unfortunate truth is this action jeopardizes the stability of our military industrial complex. We (military) justify our existence from the threat of war or actual conflict. Casualties, unfortunately, are only seen as a tolerable loss in achieving that stability. Never liked the expected casualty or tolerable loss section in SITREPS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Belly Bob said: If only Darth Vader hadn't had that moment of 'moral weakness', he may have been as 'morally admirable' as Hitler. Don't think I typed 'admirable' anywhere.... and did not infer such... If you wanted to go that direction....admirable would be in actually achieving (whatever) goals you seek...(not just sticking to them) and any 'moral' (pun) taken away would have to be that any moralistic people better make darn sure that their goals are set straight...if you were going to infer one... Just my way of thinking on it... ...and for all the 'shock values' added in for Hitler name-drops, mine is simply for thought, and find it common that people cannot even view realistic causes or see the whole picture, when detesting a personality..... Thus the (appropriate) response....given the poster and comments... I did like the Spaceballs reference tho...😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, Troll said: Don't think I typed 'admirable' anywhere.... and did not infer such... If you wanted to go that direction....admirable would be in actually achieving (whatever) goals you seek...(not just sticking to them) and any 'moral' (pun) taken away would have to be that any moralistic people better make darn sure that their goals are set straight...if you were going to infer one... Just my way of thinking on it... ...and for all the 'shock values' added in for Hitler name-drops, mine is simply for thought, and find it common that people cannot even view realistic causes or see the whole picture, when detesting a personality..... Thus the (appropriate) response....given the poster and comments... I did like the Spaceballs reference tho...😁 I guess it would have been admirable if Hitler had achieved (all of?) his goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 44 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: I guess it would have been admirable if Hitler had achieved (all of?) his goals. Well you could definitely learn something from someone who manages to take over the world...wouldn't you say? Whether you were looking to achieve your own goals, or not. Not sure why you keep trying to inject 'admirable' next to Hitler (or suggest that for me)….. Calling it as you see it, or as it really is...in no way shape or form, indicates that this would be desired. Maybe it was the context or syntax....think "even Hitler had more morals than you"....maybe that will help... dunno. At some point you may realize that "Moralistic" is neither inherently 'good' nor inherently 'bad'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 25 minutes ago, Troll said: Well you could definitely learn something from someone who manages to take over the world...wouldn't you say? Whether you were looking to achieve your own goals, or not. Not sure why you keep trying to inject 'admirable' next to Hitler (or suggest that for me)….. Calling it as you see it, or as it really is...in no way shape or form, indicates that this would be desired. Maybe it was the context or syntax....think "even Hitler had more morals than you"....maybe that will help... dunno. At some point you may realize that "Moralistic" is neither inherently 'good' nor inherently 'bad'... Sorry, you said that achieving your goals, whatever they happen to be, would be admirable. Did you want to take that back now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted December 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 2,200 US troops in Syria - mostly in a training role. And to remove them is going to lead to the end of US policy and strength as we know it. I think some want 150,000 troops and a war with Russia and Iran. And Trump is the nuts one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bormio said: 2,200 US troops in Syria - mostly in a training role. And to remove them is going to lead to the end of US policy and strength as we know it. I think some want 150,000 troops and a war with Russia and Iran. And Trump is the nuts one. They were screaming that he was gonna start a war now he takes our troops and brings them home and they scream some more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted December 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 Just now, HSFBfan said: They were screaming that he was gonna start a war now he takes our troops and brings them home and they scream some more. If Trump is for it, they are by definition against it. Trump needs to take advantage of that. Start agreeing to all their ideas, and they will suddenly become Hayek and Friedman all wrapped into one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bormio said: If Trump is for it, they are by definition against it. Trump needs to take advantage of that. Start agreeing to all their ideas, and they will suddenly become Hayek and Friedman all wrapped into one. Yep that's one way of going. Or just shut it down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 31 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: Sorry, you said that achieving your goals, whatever they happen to be, would be admirable. Did you want to take that back now? Absolutely not. and You can play semantics all night...but that's a piss poor strategy... Achieving your goals (in my book) is admirable... WHAT your goals ARE (not withstanding), can also be 'morally based' in many.....such as Hitler. Yes a lesson on Morals, good and bad. as other's morals could easily be called If you are trying to somehow prove that I could find some 'good' in Hitler ftw, no need, as I easily could...and could easily admit. But that is certainly not the bar set here with Nooner... and Hilter certainly was moralistic..... was he not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 21, 2018 Report Share Posted December 21, 2018 Trump gonna start a war omg Trump brings troops home.....omg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 51 minutes ago, Troll said: Absolutely not. and You can play semantics all night...but that's a piss poor strategy... Achieving your goals (in my book) is admirable... WHAT your goals ARE (not withstanding), can also be 'morally based' in many.....such as Hitler. Yes a lesson on Morals, good and bad. as other's morals could easily be called If you are trying to somehow prove that I could find some 'good' in Hitler ftw, no need, as I easily could...and could easily admit. But that is certainly not the bar set here with Nooner... and Hilter certainly was moralistic..... was he not? I'm not playing semantics and I don't have a strategy. I'm just trying to figure what your view is and whether it has anything going for it. The more you write, the less clear it is. My notes say that you can only define "good" and "bad" in terms of one's desires, and that it is admirable to achieve one's goals, even if they're morally based or 'morally based'. So, trying to exterminate the Jews was by definition good, since Hitler desired it, and that if he had achieved that goal, then it would have been admirable, since it's admirable to achieve one's goals. Is that playing semantics, or is that logic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Belly Bob said: I'm not playing semantics and I don't have a strategy. I'm just trying to figure what you're view is and whether it has anything going for it. The more you write, the less clear it is. My notes say that you can only define "good" and "bad" in terms of one's desires, and that it is admirable to achieve one's goals, even if they're morally based or 'morally based'. So, trying to exterminate the Jews was by definition good, since Hitler desired it, and that if he had achieved that goal, then it would have been admirable, since it's admirable to achieve one's goals. Is that playing semantics, or is that logic? You are cross tying your references... Let's slow the roll... 'Admirable' is your term, not mine....but as brought in here, I indicated that 'success' would be something you could possibly tie that term to....but again (as not even success), it does not apply here... Now 'Morals' are indeed only good or bad, based on the eye of the beholder. And yes, even genocide is considered 'good' by eugenicists ....but bad by you. …..see how that works? Great topic to breach, but probably the wrong thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 17 minutes ago, Troll said: You are cross tying your references... Let's slow the roll... 'Admirable' is your term, not mine....but as brought in here, I indicated that 'success' would be something you could possibly tie that term to....but again (as not even success), it does not apply here... Now 'Morals' are indeed only good or bad, based on the eye of the beholder. And yes, even genocide is considered 'good' by eugenicists ....but bad by you. …..see how that works? Great topic to breach, but probably the wrong thread... I understand that different people can have different opinions on whether something is good or not, just like they can have different opinions on whether something is admirable or not, just like they can have different opinions on whether something is successful or not, just like they can have different opinions on whether the Earth is flat or not, just like they can have different opinions on whether or the extent to which human beings contribute to climate change. I understand that people disagree. But I thought that you were trying to say something more than that. I thought you were trying to say that "good" def. = "what one desires" and "admirable" def. = "achieving one's goals." My apologies if I misunderstood you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 56 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: I understand that different people can have different opinions on whether something is good or not, just like they can have different opinions on whether something is admirable or not, just like they can have different opinions on whether something is successful or not, just like they can have different opinions on whether the Earth is flat or not, just like they can have different opinions on whether or the extent to which human beings contribute to climate change. I understand that people disagree. But I thought that you were trying to say something more than that. I thought you were trying to say that "good" def. = "what one desires" and "admirable" def. = "achieving one's goals." My apologies if I misunderstood you. all good, think the issue is that this Hitler=Moral deal is really meant for the bigger discussion as you point out....and I used that sledgehammer to tap in a thumbtack... as used it was overkill, but you picked up on the nuances, as that is what the juxtaposition is supposed to force people to do... But I think I just objected to the term 'admirable' as being projected 'on me' …..instead of just a point of discussion. Was only trying to show the difference there.....not get lost in an opinion debate. That is one item I still think unsettled in our posts.... opinions...….In general, I think it unwise to dismiss opinions of other, even if in disagreement.....otherwise when the next eugenics push (or terrorist, etc.) rolls around, then you can at the very least recognize it for what it is....instead of ignorantly dismissing it prior... That's something nooner always tries to do....even got some silly homemade quotes about how your opinions are not valid if they don't fit his set of facts 🙄….probably why I dropped the H=M napalm on him, and not you. At least I think you are smart enough to understand that opinion stuff, others not so much... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bormio Posted December 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 Apparently Trump made his decision when he asked Bolton about continued military presence in Syria “ Why?”. Bolton could not give a cogent answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I AM IRONMAN Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 18 hours ago, HSFBfan said: They were screaming that he was gonna start a war now he takes our troops and brings them home and they scream some more. Speaking of screaming where is 66? Maybe getting some fresh air and Xmas spirit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, I AM IRONMAN said: Speaking of screaming where is 66? Maybe getting some fresh air and Xmas spirit! Hopefully somewhere getting help lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I AM IRONMAN Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 22, 2018 Report Share Posted December 22, 2018 To all the people who wanna argue....here you go....Turkey is gonn take care of ISIS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 3 hours ago, HSFBfan said: To all the people who wanna argue....here you go....Turkey is gonn take care of ISIS Not to argue....But Turkey has never respected borders much...… So while they are a good choice to do it....I would not take my eye off the ball there.... and maybe not the 'best' of news to come out of this... just sayin'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarterBlue Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 On 12/20/2018 at 8:23 PM, Bormio said: And moving to do the same in Afghanistan. Will piss off his domestic allies, and led to Mattis exiting. But is it not time? Will he get credit from the left? I credit the policy, but not the way it was done. You can't hire people and then totally disrespect them. This is not the Trump Organization it is the Government of the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 On 12/21/2018 at 12:27 PM, Belly Bob said: If only Darth Vader hadn't had that moment of 'moral weakness', he may have been as 'morally admirable' as Hitler. Darth Vader has no weakness... well except.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Troll said: Not to argue....But Turkey has never respected borders much...… So while they are a good choice to do it....I would not take my eye off the ball there.... and maybe not the 'best' of news to come out of this... just sayin'... Well see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted December 23, 2018 Report Share Posted December 23, 2018 37 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: Well see With all your studying of Hitler and all.. ...did you ever learn who taught him how to execute a Holocaust ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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