Eddyr2 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Belly Bob said: I agree that the state's job is to protect the basic rights of its citizens. But I don't think anyone has ever thought that human beings have a basic right to bear arms. Rather, the story is supposed to go that we have a basic right to life or safety, which right implies the right to bear arms. But just like all rights, if we're not careful in the way that we articulate and defend them, they can bump up against other rights. If we're not careful in the way we articulate and defend the right to own guns, then that right can bump up against people's basic right to life and safety. So someone might well say that my basic right to life and safety implies all sorts of restrictions on your right to own guns. So framing the discussion in terms of rights doesn't resolve any of the deep issues. The founding fathers that wrote the bill of rights seem to think we had the rights to bear arms. They used that right to found a nation. We as a people have to always be careful with every right. I have the right and freedom to swing my arms as much as I want as I long as i don’t hit anyone. But if I hit someone with my arms and killed them, does that give the State the right to tie everyone’s arms down to protect the “greater good”? As a Nation that basis it’s legal system on innocent “innocent till proven guilty” how do we punish all of society for the horrific actions of evil men? im all for Policy discussions on how best to handle these horrible events. Whether that’s stricter background checks, arming more people schools, stronger enforcements current laws or having the fbi move more quickly on disarming threats, just don’t see how outlaying a type of gun helps. If you are going to outlaw one type gun might as well outlaw and confiscate them all because evil men will just get another gun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: Well, they would if we made different laws, like the laws they made to make those wild west towns less wild, right? My point was that it wasn't safer when we had less gun control, which is the point I thought you were making in your post. Maybe I missed your point. My point was this.....you will never ever control guns. Just like we will never ever control drugs auto accidents or anything else that happens in this country. When you look at our population of 336 million people i believe the number is plus all of the tourists and what not that come here if we lose whatever number we lose a year between shooting auto accident drug overdoes and other untimely deaths its a very small percentage of the population. We waste more money on drug combating and the such in this country. Imagine if we didnt waste that money and put it towards other means such as getting the homeless vets off the street. Putting more money into the VA. We could fix so many worthwhile causes. IF a junkie wants to die on drugs than go die. And yes I can say it like that. I was directly impacted by one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: My point was this.....you will never ever control guns. Just like we will never ever control drugs auto accidents or anything else that happens in this country. When you look at our population of 336 million people i believe the number is plus all of the tourists and what not that come here if we lose whatever number we lose a year between shooting auto accident drug overdoes and other untimely deaths its a very small percentage of the population. We waste more money on drug combating and the such in this country. Imagine if we didnt waste that money and put it towards other means such as getting the homeless vets off the street. Putting more money into the VA. We could fix so many worthwhile causes. IF a junkie wants to die on drugs than go die. And yes I can say it like that. I was directly impacted by one. God Bless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, Eddyr2 said: The founding fathers that wrote the bill of rights seem to think we had the rights to bear arms. They used that right to found a nation. in context, regulated militia ring a bell? and you really think they would write the same thing today? not unless they were satanic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddyr2 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, noonereal said: in context, regulated militia ring a bell? and you really think they would write the same thing today? not unless they were satanic Yes it does. and yes I do. They were students of philosophy and history. they would’ve seen the tragedies of Asia, Europe, Africa and South America in the last century and known first move of a tyrant is to remove arms from their people. They were all self proclaimed Protestant Christians, although evidence has shown that Jefferson was more of a deist. None to my knowledge were satanic. But if times have change and we shouldn’t allow people to have guns anymore, then amend the constitution. The process is laid out pretty clearly in the document itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Eddyr2 said: then amend the constitution. first thing I have seen you post that makes sense I'd just toss he 2nd and forget about it. I'd allow rifles, for troll, because he has some kid of fox infestation that frightens him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Eddyr2 said: Yes it does. and yes I do. They were students of philosophy and history. they would’ve seen the tragedies of Asia, Europe, Africa and South America in the last century and known first move of a tyrant is to remove arms from their people. They were all self proclaimed Protestant Christians, although evidence has shown that Jefferson was more of a deist. None to my knowledge were satanic. But if times have change and we shouldn’t allow people to have guns anymore, then amend the constitution. The process is laid out pretty clearly in the document itself. Nobody in their right minds wants the only people in the country with guns to be the government. Please see Kent State for reference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddyr2 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, noonereal said: first thing I have seen you post that makes sense I'd just toss he 2nd and forget about it. I'd allow rifles, for troll, because he has some kid of fox infestation that frightens him. So you would keep the AR-15? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, Eddyr2 said: So you would keep the AR-15? 🤔 don't be a dope thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcaptiron Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, noonereal said: first thing I have seen you post that makes sense I'd just toss he 2nd and forget about it. I'd allow rifles, for troll, because he has some kid of fox infestation that frightens him. I also happen to own a horse farm, so what happens if a horse injures itself and needs to be put down quickly, how do you suggest i do that? Do you not understand that guns are also tools? And the fear I have for Coyotes (or the 'intellectually dishonest' fox ) is certainly not for myself, but for any young child who might happen to be walking 10 feet from my back door where I was attacked. You really just are FOS aren't you...guess you have nothing of substance to really add. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, dbcaptiron said: I also happen to own a horse farm, so what happens if a horse injures itself and needs to be put down quickly, how do you suggest i do that? Do you not understand that guns are also tools? And the fear I have for Coyotes (or the 'intellectually dishonest' fox ) is certainly not for myself, but for any young child who might happen to be walking 10 feet from my back door where I was attacked. You really just are FOS aren't you...guess you have nothing of substance to really add. you know, you are in no small way delusional what do you do with the horses? seriously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddyr2 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, noonereal said: don't be a dope thanks be specific and don’t uncut your own argument. your welcome! 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcaptiron Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, noonereal said: you know, you are in no small way delusional what do you do with the horses? seriously I don't do anything with the horses (except ride some occaissionaly), they are not mine, I rent out the stables. Seriously As stated earlier my 'iron horses' are in the barn, not the stables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, dbcaptiron said: I don't do anything with the horses (except ride some occaissionaly), they are not mine, I rent out the stables. Seriously As stated earlier my 'iron horses' are in the barn, not the stables. lots of stables up here no train farms though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 You know whats killing your kids.....weak minded individuals who dont seem to be able to handle the world in which we live. So instead of just killing themselves they take out 20 people and than themselves 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcaptiron Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 17 minutes ago, noonereal said: lots of stables up here no train farms though Yes, many stables around here also...such a nice diversion. yet somehow when confronted with a valid point, you skate away from the query.... Now that the pleasantries are out of the way, maybe you can find it within yourself to actually address the actual issue... 36 minutes ago, dbcaptiron said: I also happen to own a horse farm, so what happens if a horse injures itself and needs to be put down quickly, how do you suggest i do that? Do you not understand that guns are also tools? and try not to skate to far away....you're not very good at it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, dbcaptiron said: somehow when confronted with a valid point, you skate away from the query. don't be a jerk off, I am done with you I gave you three different chances over the last couple months, you just can't grow up so I am done. If you want to make small talk, fine. Otherwise, nada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, Drummer61 said: Has merit...If you look at all the shooters, not only weak and outcasts, but have mental issues and I believe all were or should have been on meds...I agree...Yes.. medication is not the answer to everything. Another narrative that is thrown out way too much in our society. How about this?? a simple conversation between parent and child. Or between caregiver if parents are dead. I know parents dont always understand trust me ive been thru this during my own life time but you say it enough and loud enough they will listen and they will back off. My parents dont always agree with me but they will listen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, Drummer61 said: Don't compare, your cut from far better cloth..These were talking about should all have been under strict care or in institutions.. Unfortunately they have stripped the money from mental institutions and have closed a ton of them. Stated that they are inhuman or whatever the correct term is and instead of locking nutjobs up for life we have turned them loose on the streets to become homeless and create issues for the whole world. There is no reason as to why mental institutions should not be reopened. Jail is not the place for people with mental issues before they do something wrong. They should be locked up in a mental facility where they will be on proper meds if need be and be monitored at all times. IF medication is not warranted they can at least speak to a therapist at the facility. Yes i understand there is functioning mental issue people and im not saying throw them all in some institution but there are some that cannot be on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 12, what is a your definition of a weak minded individual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcaptiron Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 27 minutes ago, noonereal said: don't be a jerk off, I am done with you I gave you three different chances over the last couple months, you just can't grow up so I am done. If you want to make small talk, fine. Otherwise, nada. Yes I'm the biggest jerk off here for requesting that you speak on point instead of diverting and skating away when confronted with valid points on topic... Skate away, skate away, skate away..... in the most 'mature' fashion that you can muster..... Everyone sees you for what you are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noonereal Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, dbcaptiron said: I'm the biggest jerk off here something else we agree on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 We have some common sense.....a new bill to get rid of GUN FREE ZONES http://www.oann.com/fla-state-lawmakers-propose-bill-to-reverse-gun-free-zone-laws-in-schools/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcaptiron Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, dbcaptiron said: I also happen to own a horse farm, so what happens if a horse injures itself and needs to be put down quickly, how do you suggest i do that? Do you not understand that guns are also tools? Don't worry Nooner, you can still 'attempt' to actually address point and policy when you return from your meltdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbcaptiron Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, noonereal said: something else we agree on your white flag is noted.....not that it will do you any good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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