zulu1128 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 23 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: How so. If someone gets charged with domestic violence (non-felony) do the storm troopers come to their house and take their shotgun? Nope. As a matter of fact, even if you get charged with a felony they don't come and take your gun. They just tell you that you can't legally have one anymore or buy a new one. So, it's not patently false. They take your license when you get convicted of DUI or get too many points for speeding etc. It is patently false. If you commit a felony, you forfeit your right to own a gun. Pretty simple. If you continue to do so, it’s a violation of the law. There are plenty of examples of felons having their firearms confiscated. Also, there is no “right” to have a drivers license, FWIW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted February 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: This thread was asking a simple question. Man, it was simple and NOT one legit answer. Just a bunch of the normal BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, RedZone said: Any 18-year-old can purchase an AR-15 with a 3 minute background check. Don't even have to have the background check if you are buying from a gun show or individual private sale or online service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddyr2 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: This thread was asking a simple question. You loonies turned it into an outlaw the AR-15 thread. correct. My fault. the AR-15 came up when i asked for polices ideas. I am not loonie in fact rational to a fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: Don't even have to have the background check if you are buying from a gun show or individual private sale or online service. Not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, zulu1128 said: It is patently false. If you commit a felony, you forfeit your right to own a gun. Pretty simple. If you continue to do you, it’s a violation of the law. There are plenty of examples of felons having their firearms confiscated. Also, there is no “right” to have a drivers license, FWIW. You should have just posted the last line. The rest is all fluff. The dogs do not come and take your gun like they would your license. Not all violent crimes are felonies, so violent offenders are still allowed to purchase and own firearms. The only way that I have ever heard of a felon having their firearm confiscated was if they got caught with it in some capacity later after their felony was adjudicated. As an aside, how do we even reconcile infringing on a felon's second amendment rights? I must have missed the part in the second amendment that mentioned "except for felons". In other words, where there is a will to infringe on a person's second amendment rights, there is a way, without amending or scrapping the second amendment. Much the same as prohibiting people from fully autos and other arms. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 13 minutes ago, RedZone said: It's easier and much less work just to buy an AR-15, dave lee. How many of your tribe do you think I could take out before you "get" me? Probably not many. That said, your third random deflection in your own dumb thread is noted. 13 minutes ago, RedZone said: Any 18-year-old can purchase an AR-15 with a 3 minute background check. Seems reasonable and I'm pretty sure that's what the drafters had in mind. I doubt the drafters had any background check in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, Eddyr2 said: deaths from "guns' and "cars" about the same. Dude to technology updates in safety car deaths are way down in 1994. But that being said the vast majority of gun deaths are either suicide or accidents. murder is only about 30% of all gun deaths. 80% of gun deaths are committed using hand guns not a AR-15. it's all bad but the point is why just stop at the AR-15? how about hand guns? and if we get rid of guns why not cars? I don't want to put words into Max's mouth, but I think you're missing his point. I think he's asking whether the same number of people are murdered by guns as are murdered by cars. I like Ben Shapiro, but when you're evaluating arguments by analogy, you want to look for relevant differences between the things being compared; and it seems like there are some relevant differences between guns and cars. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, concha said: Not true. https://www.criminalwatchdog.com/faq/background-checks-for-guns What You Need to Know about Background Checks for Guns There are several ways to buy guns in the US. You can buy them from a licensed retail outlet, a gun show, online, and through a private sale. Background checks are only required if you purchase a gun through a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL), which includes retailers (anyone from Walmart to mom and pop shops) and some individuals. You do not need to undergo a background check if you buy a gun online, through a gun show, or through some private sales. You can check the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to see FFLs in your state. Many states also have additional laws about gun background checks, so be sure to check them before purchasing a gun. http://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/background-checks/background-check-procedures/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted February 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 8 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: Don't even have to have the background check if you are buying from a gun show or individual private sale or online service. That's true. You know in 20 or 30 years we might have 25-40 million AR-15s floating around this nation. Evidently they can't make them fast enough. You can get a cheap AR-15 for $600. A couple decades from now you might be able to get those puppies at $39.00. It's nothing but a piece of shit coward gun anyways, but the gun makers are making a mint on it right now. It ain't looking good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted February 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, zulu1128 said: I doubt the drafters had any background check in mind. You think? Maybe you can answer just ONE question tonight. Think about it and get back with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: What You Need to Know about Background Checks for Guns There are several ways to buy guns in the US. You can buy them from a licensed retail outlet, a gun show, online, and through a private sale. Background checks are only required if you purchase a gun through a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL), which includes retailers (anyone from Walmart to mom and pop shops) and some individuals. You do not need to undergo a background check if you buy a gun online, through a gun show, or through some private sales. You can check the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to see FFLs in your state. Many states also have additional laws about gun background checks, so be sure to check them before purchasing a gun. https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/facts-about-gun-shows FYI, I've bought online before. You are required to have the gun shipped to an FFL and complete the background check process there. The vast majority of guns sales are through FFLs. Almost every seller at a gun show will be an FFL. They will not sell to you without a check. The famous "loophole" is for a tiny minority of sales by non-dealers, such as a guy selling a shotgun he wants to get rid of to a neighbor. It is a huge canard that keeps gun control folks frothing at the mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddyr2 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: I don't want to put words into Max's mouth, but I think you're missing his point. I think he's asking whether the same number of people are murdered by guns as are murdered by cars. I like Ben Shapiro, but when you're evaluating arguments by analogy, you want to look for relevant differences between the things being compared; and it seems like there are some relevant differences between guns and cars. Murder is much higher with guns then cars. But cars kill about the same amount of people. The vast majority of deaths by guns are self inflicted that can’t be said about cars. My point being that both are equally as bad when it comes to deaths. That being said I own 2 cars and no guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: You should have just posted the last line. The rest is all fluff. The dogs do not come and take your gun like they would your license. No one comes to your house to take your license. You turn it in at sentencing, same as firearms. In a shocking turn of events, many people continue to drive their car after removal of said license. 2 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: Not all violent crimes are felonies, so violent offenders are still allowed to purchase and own firearms. I'd be curious to hear your proposed list of which offenses would preclude one from exercising their right. My guess is that most would not pass constitutional muster. 2 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: The only way that I have ever heard of a felon having their firearm confiscated was if they got caught with it in some capacity later after their felony was adjudicated I didn't say they were confiscated. You surrender them at sentencing...just like a driver's license. As stated above, there's no shortage of people who continue to drive (often drunk) after the fact...just like there are people who don't surrender their guns. 2 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: As an aside, how do we even reconcile infringing on a felon's second amendment rights? I must have missed the part in the second amendment that mentioned "except for felons". In other words, where there is a will to infringe on a person's second amendment rights, there is a way, without amending or scrapping the second amendment. Much the same as prohibiting people from fully autos and other arms. The only things to do that will pass Constitutional muster are background checks and magazine size. Pretty much everything else would be wasted effort. Personally, my recommendation would be to try and identify why we as a people have felt the need to shoot each other in increasing numbers over the past 30 years, while the number of guns per capita (increasingly more difficult to obtain) has remained essentially the same. You can try for a ban on all semi-auto weapons, as that's the only thing that will really prevent mass-casualty events...but that's a constitutional non-starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, RedZone said: You think? Maybe you can answer just ONE question tonight. Think about it and get back with us. You didn't ask a question. You made a statement. I really wish you sucked less at this, Chipmunk. It would be more fun for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Eddyr2 said: Murder is much higher with guns then cars. But cars kill about the same amount of people. The vast majority of deaths by guns are self inflicted that can’t be said about cars. My point being that both are equally as bad when it comes to deaths. That being said I own 2 cars and no guns. But people who advocate greater gun control are concerned specifically about reducing the number of people who are murdered. So when we're comparing things, we want to compare them with respect to their causal role in murders, not deaths, which is much broader category. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted February 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, zulu1128 said: You didn't ask a question. You made a statement. Ok, dave lee. Just hang around and watch the adults. Maybe laugh some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddyr2 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: But people who advocate greater gun control are concerned specifically about reducing the number of people who are murdered. So when we're comparing things, we want to compare them with respect to their causal role in murders, not deaths, which is much broader category. Well considering there are over 300 million of guns currently in the US. the best way to end murders by guns is to Amend the constitution and forcibly removing all guns currently possessed by citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, zulu1128 said: [...] The only things to do that will pass Constitutional muster are background checks and magazine size. Pretty much everything else would be wasted effort. [...] I don't understand why. As Hawg pointed out, there are all sorts of restrictions on what kinds of weapons a private citizen is allowed to own. (I once knew a guy who lived out in the desert of SoCal who was trying to rebuild a canon from a fighter jet, and he told me that it was hard business because it was illegal to own such a weapon.) Or is that false? If it's true, then what is it about the Constitution that would make it impossible to legislate most of Hawg's ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, RedZone said: Ok, dave lee. Just hang around and watch the adults. Maybe laugh some more. Laughing at you a is pretty easy, TBH. Props for even being brave enough to use the word “adult,” tho. Impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawgGoneIt Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, zulu1128 said: No one comes to your house to take your license. You turn it in at sentencing, same as firearms. In a shocking turn of events, many people continue to drive their car after removal of said license. I'd be curious to hear your proposed list of which offenses would preclude one from exercising their right. My guess is that most would not pass constitutional muster. I didn't say they were confiscated. You surrender them at sentencing...just like a driver's license. As stated above, there's no shortage of people who continue to drive (often drunk) after the fact...just like there are people who don't surrender their guns. The only things to do that will pass Constitutional muster are background checks and magazine size. Pretty much everything else would be wasted effort. Personally, my recommendation would be to try and identify why we as a people have felt the need to shoot each other in increasing numbers over the past 30 years, while the number of guns per capita (increasingly more difficult to obtain) has remained essentially the same. You can try for a ban on all semi-auto weapons, as that's the only thing that will really prevent mass-casualty events...but that's a constitutional non-starter. You didn't answer the question about how we tend to reconcile taking away one's second amendment right when they have been convicted of a felony when there is no allowance for that written into the second amendment. Having not seen the ":except for convicted felons' line in the second amendment, and seeing that we all agree that somehow we still disallow them from possessing or purchasing firearms, I'll ask, how are any of these other potential bans "constitutional non-starters"? I will still contend that, where there is a will to infringe on some people's rights to bear arms, then we manage to do so and see it upheld in the SCOTUS. In other words, where there is the will, there is a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddyr2 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Eddyr2 said: Well considering there are over 300 million of guns currently in the US. the best way to end murders by guns is to Amend the constitution and forcibly removing all guns currently possessed by citizens. Oh, you would also have to make sure no bad guys get there hands on any of those 300+ million guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Eddyr2 said: Well considering there are over 300 million of guns currently in the US. the best way to end murders by guns is to Amend the constitution and forcibly removing all guns currently possessed by citizens. Why would that obviously be the best way? There are tradeoffs between limiting the number of people who are murdered by guns and protecting the right citizens have to bear arms. There is no reason to assume that the only goal is to reduce the number of people who are murdered by guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulu1128 Posted February 20, 2018 Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, HawgGoneIt said: You didn't answer the question about how we tend to reconcile taking away one's second amendment right when they have been convicted of a felony when there is no allowance for that written into the second amendment. Having not seen the ":except for convicted felons' line in the second amendment, and seeing that we all agree that somehow we still disallow them from possessing or purchasing firearms, I'll ask, how are any of these other potential bans "constitutional non-starters"? I will still contend that, where there is a will to infringe on some people's rights to bear arms, then we manage to do so and see it upheld in the SCOTUS. In other words, where there is the will, there is a way. The history of 2A cases decided by SCOTUS says otherwise, but best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZone Posted February 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, zulu1128 said: Props for even being brave enough to use the word “adult,” tho. Impressive. Your david lee roth album cover avatar always impresses in an adult thread. Take a seat.. You didn't want to answer the original question. Quit wasting our time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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