Visited the zoo this week...

[ChimpGrip]

1 minute ago, DevilDog said:I am interested in what you come up with.  But it has been put to the test and the Gorilla is much stronger than a human based of off Muscle composition.  So is a Grizzly Bear.  You can't grow new muscle you can only make the existing Muscle bigger.  They in comparison start out that way.   Pure strength the Simian is much stronger.  But it is your thesis not mines.  Correct I copied it from a study (1) to show it wasn't me making this up.  And strength is often brought up in MMA fights for sure.  I watch a lot of it.   It shouldn't be frustrating you are out researching this.

That was not a study. There is no real, in-depth study in existence. Even the keeper said this. 

You’re right, this should be fun rather than fascinating. It’s really a never ending fight I can’t win. I need to learn to move on from the fact that people will have their beliefs and will often stick to them. And I can’t change people’s minds, even if this study is a success for me. We see this all the time in politics I guess.

Here is my GOAL, and I am willing to eat crow if I am wrong: to prove that amateur strongmen are stronger than gorillas in current state. If that is a success, then I will throw some funds at a more complex project that involves training for the gorillas(note I said “complex” as I realize this would be difficult). Crush and pinch grip will be tested, along with pressing movements, various pulling movements, stone movement, and other things. 

Once again, if I am wrong, I will gladly accept it and move on and just live with it. 

Hopefully those on this board respect to some level my thirst for discovery and the ultimate separation from fact and myth. 

[DevilDog]

3 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Stop trying to equate an animals physiology to man's!   It's motivated by a few things, food and survival and competition will be created from those needs.  If you threaten anyone of those needs, then you can get a true gauge of its strength.  It doesn't give a damn about lifting weights or bodybuilding.  

We've offered an alternative without folks losing their lives.  Get a three inch piece of bamboo and break it into smaller pieces.  A gorilla does this with minimal effort as it eats the meat of the bamboo.  That's the challenge to you.

Exactly.  Bamboo is a hellacious structure of elements and they can in fact rip bamboo with little effort.   Here is something of interest on this

This is quite interesting sir. 

A Gorilla Can Lift 10x   Its Body Weight

This Is Equal To 1800 lbs For The Average Human

In Gym Terms: 40 45-lb Weight Plates

[ChimpGrip]

1 minute ago, Horsefly said:

Stop trying to equate an animals physiology to man's!   It's motivated by a few things, food and survival and competition will be created from those needs.  If you threaten anyone of those needs, then you can get a true gauge of its strength.  It doesn't give a damn about lifting weights or bodybuilding.  

We've offered an alternative without folks losing their lives.  Get a three inch piece of bamboo and break it into smaller pieces.  A gorilla does this with minimal effort as it eats the meat of the bamboo.  That's the challenge to you.

True, BUT... certain movements require a focus for lack of better word. Mindless adrenaline rush rage can lead to a short and great burst of strength to maximum levels (utilizing all fibers in humans) but can increase chance of error and injury, which can keep one from completing the movement. So that’s another challenge in itself. I would controlled motivation for the movements rather than rage. 

What i want to see is if it can close certain grippers. If the gorilla is motivated to close it (for food reward, environmental protections, etc.) and fails to, that will be a fun talking point on some of my other boards. And there will be some that will have to answer me on that.

[DevilDog]

7 minutes ago, ChimpGrip said:

That was not a study. There is no real, in-depth study in existence. Even the keeper said this. 

You’re right, this should be fun rather than fascinating. It’s really a never ending fight I can’t win. I need to learn to move on from the fact that people will have their beliefs and will often stick to them. And I can’t change people’s minds, even if this study is a success for me. We see this all the time in politics I guess.

Here is my GOAL, and I am willing to eat crow if I am wrong: to prove that amateur strongmen are stronger than gorillas in current state. If that is a success, then I will throw some funds at a more complex project that involves training for the gorillas(note I said “complex” as I realize this would be difficult). Crush and pinch grip will be tested, along with pressing movements, various pulling movements, stone movement, and other things. 

Once again, if I am wrong, I will gladly accept it and move on and just live with it. 

Hopefully those on this board respect to some level my thirst for discovery and the ultimate separation from fact and myth. 

I am in no such manner projecting ridicule.  I think anything that one is setting out to discover should be fascinating.  Let me say this even when proven wrong is not an invitation to eat crow.  In your quest and if and when proven wrong you will still have learned something and that should be celebrated.  Now hit me up about those Asian Girls I have done an in depth study and found them to be a very interesting subject.  That's a fact.  From Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong, Subic Bay and finally San Diego.   They can't break Bamboo but I have found a few in Bamboo Huts on Red Island in the Philippines .

[ChimpGrip]

5 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

Exactly.  Bamboo is a hellacious structure of elements and they can in fact rip bamboo with little effort.   Here is something of interest on this

This is quite interesting sir. 

A Gorilla Can Lift 10x   Its Body Weight

This Is Equal To 1800 lbs For The Average Human

In Gym Terms: 40 45-lb Weight Plates

This is also partially wrong in that-lifting body weight in what motion? With an upper or lower body movement? Lifting is way too broad. Once again, no real study has been done. And that tidbit comes from the keeper I talked to Tuesday.

[ChimpGrip]

3 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

I am in no such manner projecting ridicule.  I think anything that one is setting out to discover should be fascinating.  Let me say this even when proven wrong is not an invitation to eat crow.  In your quest and if and when proven wrong you will still have learned something and that should be celebrated.  Now hit me up about those Asian Girls I have done an in depth study and found them to be a very interesting subject.  That's a fact.  From Singapore, Japan, Hong Kong, Subic Bay and finally San Diego. 

Yes lol. Plus I’d much rather look at Asian girls than hairy human cousins!

i just want to know, it’s just one of many quests for knowledge that I have. I’ll definitely be happy if I’m right, but most people will probably leave it in the dust with a shallow “Who cares?”

[Horsefly]

1 minute ago, ChimpGrip said:

True, BUT... certain movements require a focus for lack of better word. Mindless adrenaline rush rage can lead to a short and great burst of strength to maximum levels (utilizing all fibers in humans) but can increase chance of error and injury, which can keep one from completing the movement. So that’s another challenge in itself. I would controlled motivation for the movements rather than rage. 

What i want to see is if it can close certain grippers. If the gorilla is motivated to close it (for food reward, environmental protections, etc.) and fails to, that will be a fun talking point on some of my other boards. And there will be some that will have to answer me on that.

But that is the biggest evolutionary difference between humans and primates.  Overtime,  we have sacrificed overall brute strength for dexterity and controlled movements.  

[DevilDog]

5 minutes ago, ChimpGrip said:

This is also partially wrong in that-lifting body weight in what motion? With an upper or lower body movement? Lifting is way too broad. Once again, no real study has been done. And that tidbit comes from the keeper I talked to Tuesday.

Again you are stating that things are wrong from experts who have already put this to the test.  What do you want to do enter a Gorilla in a strong man contest?  You can't he is not motivated to drag a car.   Strength comes from motivation and if motivated no human can come close no matter what movement of the body or broad scope of lifting you are measuring.  Maybe this is over my simple Marine Brain.

[ChimpGrip]

1 minute ago, Horsefly said:

But that is the biggest evolutionary difference between humans and primates.  Overtime,  we have sacrificed overall brute strength for dexterity and controlled movements.  

The controlled movements can be achieved, they don’t need to have things like dexterity at our level to do it. They’re doing e.g. bench press, not sewing by hand. 

[DevilDog]

Just now, Horsefly said:

But that is the biggest evolutionary difference between humans and primates.  Overtime,  we have sacrificed overall brute strength for dexterity and controlled movements.  

Exactly we brought our food source to ourselves and domesticated it.  Therefore upper body strength to climb for foliage or lift and drag substance (food) is no longer a necessity.   I think you are spot on with that description sir.

[ChimpGrip]

2 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

Again you are stating that things are wrong from experts who have already put this to the test.  What do you want to do enter a Gorilla in a strong man contest.  You can't he is not motivated to drag a car.   Strength comes from motivation and if motivated no human can come close no matter what movement of the body or broad scope of lifting you are measuring.  Maybe this is over my simple Marine Brain.

DD, these “experts” have never conducted a real study into this. It’s all based on exhibitions of strength when they break a branch. There is no real study. We can look at evolution, personal experience from witnesses, physiology, but we can’t place exact numbers on it. I want numbers, not assumptions. 

Motivation is a small component of the strength formula. 

If what you said about no human being able to come close is true, then we can only assume loading big stones and stuff like that is also not close. Which I highly doubt. There is a difference in movements. 

If a gorilla is mad as hell and is out to kill and tries with everything he has and fails to lift a 500 pound rock, then what? I’d say the man at least can hold a candle, as dozens and dozens of men in the strength world have lifted that and much more.

[DevilDog]

12 minutes ago, ChimpGrip said:

Yes lol. Plus I’d much rather look at Asian girls than hairy human cousins!

i just want to know, it’s just one of many quests for knowledge that I have.

Good for you> I am accused often of being dogmatic in approach on subjects that are fascinating too me.  So I understand the mental rush you have for this.  I am confused by the complexity of your thought in grasping the nature of this primates GOD given(natural) ability over his homo sapien relative.  It is like arguing that one could train to outrun a Cheetah if I might be so crass and not project conjecture at your points. Let me know what conclusion(s) you reach in this sir.  Good Luck to you . I will just read your comments going forward on this matter.  Semper Simians:  Asian ladies are a fascinating study for sure.  I do know this I now eat rice plain because of it.  FACT: 

[ChimpGrip]

1 minute ago, DevilDog said:

Good for you> I am accused often of being dogmatic in approach on subject that are fascinating to me.  So I understand the mental rush you have for this.  I am confused by the complexity of your thought in grasping the nature of this primates GOD given(natural) ability over his homo sapien relative.  It is like arguing that one could train to outrun a Cheetah if I might be so crass and not project conjecture at your points. Let me know what you conclusion you reach in this sir.  Good Luck to you . I will just read your comments going forward on this matter.  Semper Simians: 

What I expect or hope to see is that the gorilla is much stronger at X number of movements (likely pulling) while the strongman excels at overall body and pressing movements. Crush grip is a major unknown, not near as clear cut as it seems. I want people to be able to grasp what certain men can do, and how the gorilla is not stronger in every way. Do they even out? Does the gorilla have the edge? Or the strongman? Have we been wrong all along on something that seemed so obvious with what we thought was enough evidence to void any attempt at study? Or does it turn out to overwhelmingly prove what we thought was right all along-and in turn prove me wrong? This study aims to answer these questions. 

Thanks for reading.

[Horsefly]

7 minutes ago, ChimpGrip said:

The controlled movements can be achieved, they don’t need to have things like dexterity at our level to do it. They’re doing e.g. bench press, not sewing by hand. 

The need for pressing strength doesn't occur naturally for the gorilla, the bench press is an artificially controlled movement for the sole benefit of gaining strength and muscle based on the human anatomy.   

[Horsefly]

2 minutes ago, ChimpGrip said:

What I expect or hope to see is that the gorilla is much stronger at X number of movements (likely pulling) while the strongman excels at overall body and pressing movements. Crush grip is a major unknown, not near as clear cut as it seems. I want people to be able to grasp what certain men can do, and how the gorilla is not stronger in every way. Do they even out? Does the gorilla have the edge? Or the strongman? Have we been wrong all along on something that seemed so obvious with what we thought was enough evidence to void any attempt at study? Or does it turn out to overwhelmingly prove what we thought was right all along-and in turn prove me wrong? This study aims to answer these questions. 

Thanks for reading.

Make sure your strongmen are not helped by steroids either, nothing artificial should be used in the study.  The gorilla is not helped by synthetic drugs, neither should the strongmen.

[ChimpGrip]

4 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

The need for pressing strength doesn't occur naturally for the gorilla, the bench press is an artificially controlled movement for the sole benefit of gaining strength and muscle based on the human anatomy.   

That is correct, but the gorilla is still capable of pressing. He can push. If one can push (human, gorilla, orangutan, and so on) then the bench press is doable. Bench press is one example. Is takes supreme brute strength for what some have done with the log press. And the axle press, which is mighty hard.

[ChimpGrip]

1 minute ago, Horsefly said:

Make sure your strongmen are not helped by steroids either, nothing artificial should be used in the study.  The gorilla is not helped by synthetic drugs, neither should the strongmen.

Well I have no way to politely ask that. I know Shaw eats out the grocery store weekly, I’ll leave it at that.

[Horsefly]

30 minutes ago, ChimpGrip said:

Well I have no way to politely ask that. I know Shaw eats out the grocery store weekly, I’ll leave it at that.

Curious, are strongmen competitions regulated for drugs, like we have in other sports?

[ChimpGrip]

1 hour ago, Horsefly said:

Curious, are strongmen competitions regulated for drugs, like we have in other sports?

Some are and some are not. Same goes for powerlifting and bodybuilding federations. I’ve heard that World’s Strongest Man is and is not, but the only reliable source on that would be someone who has done it. 

[AztecPadre]

13 hours ago, ChimpGrip said:

I’ve seen a man turn an 18 inch forged steel crescent into an “S” shape. I would say that is far more difficult, for a human or gorilla, than breaking a banana tree. 

I'm not saying that's not possible, but a silver back is insanely strong and would need to see some sort of study showing a human can be as strong. Everything I have read seems to say no way in hell it's possible.

[DevilDog]

6 minutes ago, AztecPadre said:

I'm not saying that's not possible, but a silver back is insanely strong and would need to see some sort of study showing a human can be as strong. Everything I have read seems to say no way in hell it's possible.

 I do find fascinating this animal lives on 87% vegetation rarely drinks water because the vegetation contains so much of it.  Yet he is incredibly strong.  That should tell you something about his natural ability.  And the only non-vegetation consumed are Termites, Caterpillars, ants and snails all creatures that hide among vegetation he consumes.  Yet the Grizzly is all Muscle and must consume massive protein to survive.  Quite strong as well.  Hypothetically even though the Bear(meat eater) is the aggressor and The Gorilla (vegetarian) passive.  The Gorilla would most likely win in a fight by ripping the bears mouth apart.  Now tell me that is not fascinating.  Will not happen since one is African and the other American.   Gorilla vs. Man seems to be quite one-sided IMHO

That big Primate rarely drinks water eats Vege's and is strong as hell.  That defies nature to the max.  

[ChimpGrip]

10 minutes ago, AztecPadre said:

I'm not saying that's not possible, but a silver back is insanely strong and would need to see some sort of study showing a human can be as strong. Everything I have read seems to say no way in hell it's possible.

The whole point of my study

[ChimpGrip]

8 minutes ago, DevilDog said:

 I do find fascinating this animal lives on 87% vegetation rarely drinks water because the vegetation contains so much of it.  Yet he is incredibly strong.  That should tell you something about his natural ability.  And the only non-vegetation consumed are Termites, Caterpillars, ants and snails all creatures that hide among vegetation he consumes.  Yet the Grizzly is all Muscle and must consume massive protein to survive.  Quite strong as well.  Hypothetically even though the Bear(meat eater) is the aggressor and The Gorilla (vegetarian) passive.  The Gorilla would most likely win in a fight by ripping the bears mouth apart.  Now tell me that is not fascinating.  Will not happen since one is African and the other American.   Gorilla vs. Man seems to be quite one-sided IMHO

That big Primate rarely drinks water eats Vege's and is strong as hell.  That defies nature to the max.  

I have family members who have been guiding Brown Bear hunts in Alaska for years now. I think a brown Bear would destroy a gorilla. They are much heavier and faster, and have a nasty swipe and bite. I think a big male lion would tear up a gorilla. A Cape buffalo or hippo would also destroy it. Most people are pretty clueless about the animals I’ve mentioned above.

[Horsefly]

1 hour ago, ChimpGrip said:

I have family members who have been guiding Brown Bear hunts in Alaska for years now. I think a brown Bear would destroy a gorilla. They are much heavier and faster, and have a nasty swipe and bite. I think a big male lion would tear up a gorilla. A Cape buffalo or hippo would also destroy it. Most people are pretty clueless about the animals I’ve mentioned above.

Besides its physical strength, the gorilla's bite is one of natures strongest as measured by psi.  http://www.sciencefocus.com/qa/top-10-which-animals-have-strongest-bite

by nature a gorilla is a peaceful animal, not aggressive unless threatened.

[BUFORDGAWOLVES]

Clearly missing the mark....

Did you see 'so and so' at the zoo?