And the decision from SCOTUS on unions

[dan in daytona]

59 minutes ago, concha said:

 

The height of union power was a time when the US had no real economic competitors in the world. I've read that the US controlled something like 70% of world industrial production at one point.  Germany and Japan were smashed. Ditto France. Korea, China... undeveloped backwaters.

By the 70s that began to change.  VWs, Toyotas and Hondas started to show up.  Our high cost, low-quality and unionized companies got their asses kicked.

As wages grew in places like Germany and Japan, you saw them start to move production over here, overwhelmingly to non-union shops as it would have made no sense otherwise.

People need to understand that the golden age when America and her unionized industrial giants ruled the world and printed money is long gone.

To blame the unions for the demise of the automobile industry is ridiculous. The bloated greedy idiots running GM, Ford, and Chrysler only have themselves to blame. Germany and Japan's industries were destroyed by the end of World War II. They rebuilt efficient new plants with the help of U.S. dollars (See: the Marshall Plan). While our blind corporate leaders continued to build 5,000 lb monster gas hogs with wings and wood siding, our engenius competitors were shipping new one ton VW Beetles and Toyota Corollas to our shores at $1,600 a pop. Many years later, after government-mandated gas and environmental concerns, did our Fat Cats answer the foreign invasion. And what garbage they produced, the Chevy Vega and the Ford Pinto!!!! And it's been down hill ever since. Only government intervention has kept them alive this long. Mandated gas requirements saved them in the 1970's, 80's, 90's during the gas shortages. If not for Uncle Sam's urging none of the idiot automobile leaders would've had a gas efficient product in their entire line of vehicles. I'll stop... running out of steam

[FolsomPrisonBlues]

6 minutes ago, dan in daytona said:

To blame the unions for the demise of the automobile industry is ridiculous. The bloated greedy idiots running GM, Ford, and Chrysler only have themselves to blame. Germany and Japan's industries were destroyed by the end of World War II. They rebuilt efficient new plants with the help of U.S. dollars (See: the Marshall Plan). While our blind corporate leaders continued to build 5,000 lb monster gas hogs with wings and wood siding, our engenius competitors were shipping new one ton VW Beetles and Toyota Corollas to our shores at $1,600 a pop. Many years later, after government-mandated gas and environmental concerns, did our Fat Cats answer the foreign invasion. And what garbage they produced, the Chevy Vega and the Ford Pinto!!!! And it's been down hill ever since. Only government intervention has kept them alive this long. Mandated gas requirements saved them in the 1970's, 80's, 90's during the gas shortages. If not for Uncle Sam's urging none of the idiot automobile leaders would've had a gas efficient product in their entire line of vehicles. I'll stop... running out of steam

It is all an excuse to drive down the price of labor, retirement, benefits, etc..............

That is ALL it is.

[concha]

1 hour ago, dan in daytona said:

To blame the unions for the demise of the automobile industry is ridiculous. The bloated greedy idiots running GM, Ford, and Chrysler only have themselves to blame. Germany and Japan's industries were destroyed by the end of World War II. They rebuilt efficient new plants with the help of U.S. dollars (See: the Marshall Plan). While our blind corporate leaders continued to build 5,000 lb monster gas hogs with wings and wood siding, our engenius competitors were shipping new one ton VW Beetles and Toyota Corollas to our shores at $1,600 a pop. Many years later, after government-mandated gas and environmental concerns, did our Fat Cats answer the foreign invasion. And what garbage they produced, the Chevy Vega and the Ford Pinto!!!! And it's been down hill ever since. Only government intervention has kept them alive this long. Mandated gas requirements saved them in the 1970's, 80's, 90's during the gas shortages. If not for Uncle Sam's urging none of the idiot automobile leaders would've had a gas efficient product in their entire line of vehicles. I'll stop... running out of steam

I did not blame the unions. Though I believe they were part of the problem.

I said the world in which they and the big American companies dominated the globe and both made lots of money despite themselves is long gone. We went from having basically no competition to major competition while American car designs and cost structures were unprepared.  High-pay and generous pension structures did not help.

[FolsomPrisonBlues]

1 hour ago, concha said:

High-pay and generous pension structures did not help.

So you are against high pay and pensions?

Are we Mexico?

What a loser. 

[Blueliner]

9 hours ago, GardenStateBaller said:

I'll play with my memes while your peeps scream at POTUS through their vaginas. 

 

I'm not kidding. I find this photo EXTREMELY effing disturbing

[Blueliner]

I'm in management now, so I look through a slightly different lens these days.  

But I used to be in the union. Our organization has just under 300 employees...and not one of them won't pay. I'd be shocked if any left. I'm not necessarily pro-union in a business sense, but from an employee perspective there's no way I'da left the union even if I had the choice. I think MOST people will see it this way and they'll gladly mail in their contribution or set up auto pay. IMHO.

[HSFBfan]

Just now, Blueliner said:

I'm in management now, so I look through a slightly different lens these days.  

But I used to be in the union. Our organization has just under 300 employees...and not one of them won't pay. I'd be shocked if any left. I'm not necessarily pro-union in a business sense, but from an employee perspective there's no way I'da left the union even if I had the choice. I think MOST people will see it this way and they'll gladly mail in their contribution or set up auto pay.

Why not? At this point you can leave have all your money in your pocket and enjoy the same benefits as those you want to contribute. 

[Bormio]

1 hour ago, Blueliner said:

I'm in management now, so I look through a slightly different lens these days.  

But I used to be in the union. Our organization has just under 300 employees...and not one of them won't pay. I'd be shocked if any left. I'm not necessarily pro-union in a business sense, but from an employee perspective there's no way I'da left the union even if I had the choice. I think MOST people will see it this way and they'll gladly mail in their contribution or set up auto pay. IMHO.

I suspect there are companies and unions for which this true.  But when right to work passed in Wisconsin, many quickly left their union - membership fell by over 30% in 2 years.

[Blueliner]

1 hour ago, HSFBfan said:

Why not? At this point you can leave have all your money in your pocket and enjoy the same benefits as those you want to contribute. 

I dont necessarily disagree with you. I just think that people feel that the 50.00 is worth the “protection” and continuous wage increases over th long haul. There are plenty of republicans in our organization’s union, and I bet not one of them will back out. Ok, maybe a couple. But you’re right, I’m ok with having the choice to contribute or not. Let the market dictate who contribute’s or not. 

[Blueliner]

21 minutes ago, Bormio said:

I suspect there are companies and unions for which this true.  But when right to work passed in Wisconsin, many quickly left their union - membership fell by over 30% in 2 years.

That’s a big loss for unions for sure. But I’m in the People’s Repubic of California. It’ll be interesting to see what happens here. We’ll probably become a sanctuary union state🤣