Confederate Flag Music

[Bormio]

Just now, HSFBfan said:

Idk what was controversial about him. 

He was considered a traitor.  The Southerners who stayed with the Union felt very strongly about that.

[Nolebull813]

Lee was a decorated war hero, and anyone trying to erase his history is trying to erase American history. You cant pick and choose what you like and what you don't like. He was apart of our history and should be celebrated as the people who revere him see fit. 

[Horsefly]

15 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

Lee was a decorated war hero, and anyone trying to erase his history is trying to erase American history. You cant pick and choose what you like and what you don't like. He was apart of our history and should be celebrated as the people who revere him see fit. 

He's about as much of a war hero as Germany's Rommel was in WWII.

Lee deserved to be tried as a traitor and hung for his crimes.  

[Nolebull813]

10 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

He's about as much of a war hero as Germany's Rommel was in WWII.

Indeed 

[Horsefly]

5 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

Indeed 

So you think rommel was a war HERO?

[Nolebull813]

10 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

So you think rommel was a war HERO?

Yes, his awards and honors would say so 

[Horsefly]

6 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

Yes, his awards and honors would say so 

So when he killed a thousand of our American soldiers at Kasserine pass and imprisoned hundreds more, he's a hero to you?   

Were those allied awards and honors?  So the enemy of our conuntry is a hero to you? 

 

 

 

[Nolebull813]

Hero has very broad range and is determined by the people who were directly affected. Everything else is an outsiders opinion. 

For example, Pablo Escobar was considered a hero. 20,000 came to his funeral to mourn his death. 

We might not think of him as a hero but there are plenty of people who do. And who are we to try and influence Colombian citizens and try and change their mind and lobby for them to tear down his likeness? 

The same mentality should be afforded to Lee and his believers 

[Nolebull813]

1 minute ago, Horsefly said:

So when he killed a thousand of our American soldiers at Kasserine pass and imprisoned hundreds more, he's a hero to you?   The military enemy to our country is a hero to you?  

 

 

 

He's not my hero. But He was considered a hero. Look at his awards and how he is remembered in his hometown 

I don't have any personal heroes. Heroes to me are the people who defend this country. Military, police and firefighters 

[Horsefly]

1 minute ago, Nolebull813 said:

Hero has very broad range and is determined by the people who were directly affected. Everything else is an outsiders opinion. 

For example, Pablo Escobar was considered a hero. 20,000 came to his funeral to mourn his death. 

We might not think of him as a hero but there are plenty of people who do. And who are we to try and influence Colombian citizens and try and change their mind and lobby for them to tear down his likeness? 

The same mentality should be afforded to Lee and his believers 

Osama Bin Laden was a hero to his followers, pol pot in Cambodia was a hero to his followers, same for Gen Yamamoto in bombing of Pearl Harbor, he was a highly decorated fleet commander.  Are they heroes too?  

we have directed our political policies on who we deem as "heroes", I guess we should leave Kim Jong-Un alone as he's a public hero, managing his sovereign nation.  

When it was reported many Muslims were allegedly celebrating the bombing of the World Trade Center, did you have the same sentiment, let them celebrate as we are allowed to see our heroes in different ways?  

[Horsefly]

14 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

He's not my hero. But He was considered a hero. Look at his awards and how he is remembered in his hometown 

I don't have any personal heroes. Heroes to me are the people who defend this country. Military, police and firefighters 

He's not an allied hero period!  And anyone that sees him as such is an enemy of mine.  That's all that needed to be said instead of that other bullshit you're spewing.  

[Horsefly]

17 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

He's not my hero. But He was considered a hero. Look at his awards and how he is remembered in his hometown 

I don't have any personal heroes. Heroes to me are the people who defend this country. Military, police and firefighters 

Just because our enemies decorate their soliders for their cause doesn't make them a hero.  ISIS rewards and praise their soldiers as well, are we going to loosely give them a hero label as well? 

We correctly identify these folks as enemies and adversaries.

[Nolebull813]

4 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

He's not an allied hero period!  And anyone that sees him as such is an enemy of mine.  That's all that needed to be said instead of that other bullshit you're spewing.  

No you are conflating everything. Hero has a very broad and vast meaning to many people. 

All those people who were foreigners were considered enemies of America at the same time heroes to their people. 

Robert E Lee was considered a hero to Americans till this day. There are people in America who feel he was a hero and there is a wide consensus for this. 

 

[Nolebull813]

3 minutes ago, Horsefly said:

Just because our enemies decorate their soliders for their cause doesn't make them a hero.  ISIS rewards and praise their soldiers as well, are we going to loosely give them a hero label as well? 

We correctly identify these folks as enemies and adversaries.

And some of our heroes are not looked at the same way across the world. It doesn't add or diminish their history. 

What im saying is just because someone is a hero somewhere else doesn't mean he's a hero here. It's an opinion. 

I don't think in my opinion any of those people mentioned in this thread were heroes. Except Lee of course 

[Horsefly]

9 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

And some of our heroes are not looked at the same way across the world. It doesn't add or diminish their history. 

What im saying is just because someone is a hero somewhere else doesn't mean he's a hero here. It's an opinion. 

I don't think in my opinion any of those people mentioned in this thread were heroes. Except Lee of course 

Every last person I mentioned was a part of a regime that was an enemy of the United States and one we went to war with to include your beloved confederacy.  

Lee is a part of our history just like those others, but like those others he was on the enemy side. 

He can’t be a US hero because he chose his side and cause and it wasn’t with the US. His pic n name should NEVER be under the Stars and Stripes. 

 

[Horsefly]

17 minutes ago, Nolebull813 said:

No you are conflating everything. Hero has a very broad and vast meaning to many people. 

All those people who were foreigners were considered enemies of America at the same time heroes to their people. 

Robert E Lee was considered a hero to Americans till this day. There are people in America who feel he was a hero and there is a wide consensus for this. 

 

Lee is only viewed as a hero bc the south was allowed to not be defeated in shame.  They were spared infamy and , their  dignity was restored so the nation could heal and move on.  they were almost brought up on treason Which would have been certain death.  

[DevilDog]

1 hour ago, Horsefly said:

Lee is only viewed as a hero bc the south was allowed to not be defeated in shame.  They were spared infamy and , their  dignity was restored so the nation could heal and move on.  they were almost brought up on treason Which would have been certain death.  

If Only there were 10,000 Hero's like Nat Turner that Southern Hero B.S. would have been mute.  Nat Turner is my Hero. 

After the Civil War, southern newspapers often invoked Turner’s name with that of John Brown’s, another controversial figure portrayed as both martyr and madman. In newspapers geared toward a white audience, the two men were often written about with intense vitriol, while black newspaper publishers placed Brown alongside Turner, Frederick Douglas and Denmark Vesey as a hero among heroes unafraid to die for the causes of freedom and justice:

This is a real Southern Hero.  I almost know this whole damn confession by heart.  Brilliant Brother who rose up in the Ashes of Hate. Fuck the Confederate States and their Traitors.  Tell them to get over it like they do us about our  History.   We all know what those sick Bastards did to his body after murdering him.  

Read this sir and see how brilliant he was even in their dungeon of Slavery he Rose up like a Phoenix 

https://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/turner/turner.html

 

[Horsefly]

5 hours ago, DevilDog said:

If Only there were 10,000 Hero's like Nat Turner that Southern Hero B.S. would have been mute.  Nat Turner is my Hero. 

After the Civil War, southern newspapers often invoked Turner’s name with that of John Brown’s, another controversial figure portrayed as both martyr and madman. In newspapers geared toward a white audience, the two men were often written about with intense vitriol, while black newspaper publishers placed Brown alongside Turner, Frederick Douglas and Denmark Vesey as a hero among heroes unafraid to die for the causes of freedom and justice:

This is a real Southern Hero.  I almost know this whole damn confession by heart.  Brilliant Brother who rose up in the Ashes of Hate. Fuck the Confederate States and their Traitors.  Tell them to get over it like they do us about our  History.   We all know what those sick Bastards did to his body after murdering him.  

Read this sir and see how brilliant he was even in their dungeon of Slavery he Rose up like a Phoenix 

https://docsouth.unc.edu/neh/turner/turner.html

 

Oh yes, I’ve read his confessions before, what a warrior!  Convicted to fight his oppressor. 

[concha]

7 hours ago, Nolebull813 said:

Yes, his awards and honors would say so 

If you're saying a war hero for the bad guys, yes.

If you're saying he was a great military leader and strategist, yes.

But for us the only hero part was when he got involved in the plot to off the little Austrian painter.

[Bormio]

Lee (and Rommel) were professional soldiers who conducted themselves in war as soldiers are supposed to do.  They did not indiscriminately kill civilians.  In general, they did not torture.  There is no comparison with bin Laden.  Lee was conflicted over his decision to leave the Union.  He considered himself a Virginian first.  It was a different time.  He was an able and worthy adversary for the Union.  The Lost Cause mythology that surrounds Lee is over the top - he made mistakes - but he was a great general.  And it is entirely appropriate that his name is on a barracks at West Point.

[concha]

5 hours ago, DevilDog said:

In newspapers geared toward a white leftist audience, the two men were Trump was often written about with intense vitriol,

 

Turner did what I'm sure many men would hope to have the balls to do were they and theirs in Turner's situation.

That said,  there was a part to your piece above that struck me regarding today's major media and "news" sources ...

[HSFBfan]

21 minutes ago, Bormio said:

Lee (and Rommel) were professional soldiers who conducted themselves in war as soldiers are supposed to do.  They did not indiscriminately kill civilians.  In general, they did not torture.  There is no comparison with bin Laden.  Lee was conflicted over his decision to leave the Union.  He considered himself a Virginian first.  It was a different time.  He was an able and worthy adversary for the Union.  The Lost Cause mythology that surrounds Lee is over the top - he made mistakes - but he was a great general.  And it is entirely appropriate that his name is on a barracks at West Point.

Lee needed jackson and when jackson died lee lost his right hand man. Lee did great things for the United states before the civil war. He will always be one of the if not greatest leader this country ever had produced whatever you wanna call it. 

[DevilDog]

36 minutes ago, concha said:

Turner did what I'm sure many men would hope to have the balls to do were they and theirs in Turner's situation.

That said,  there was a part to your piece above that struck me regarding today's major media and "news" sources ...

I agree with your statement except the redaction of mine to compare Nat Turner to President Trump is a quite a Stretch Sir.  The same thing you tried to simulate would read the same with Right Wing Papers and President Obama and even with that vitriol and hatred it doesn't compare to a Hero like Nat Turner.  If he was British I would have learned about him in the 1st grade depicting his heroism.  Yet all I heard was like John Brown he was Crazy.   By the way any Flag that is put next to this one should never be represented by a treasonous one.  Raised it each day as  Military Policeman.  The Confederate States so called Heritage is Racism and HATRED and any fool trying to frame it otherwise is a slap to my ancestral Parentage and my present day mental acumen of this History.  And I know you were not framing it as such but a few here are trying to spin it. 

[Horsefly]

39 minutes ago, Bormio said:

Lee (and Rommel) were professional soldiers who conducted themselves in war as soldiers are supposed to do.  They did not indiscriminately kill civilians.  In general, they did not torture.  There is no comparison with bin Laden.  Lee was conflicted over his decision to leave the Union.  He considered himself a Virginian first.  It was a different time.  He was an able and worthy adversary for the Union.  The Lost Cause mythology that surrounds Lee is over the top - he made mistakes - but he was a great general.  And it is entirely appropriate that his name is on a barracks at West Point.

No actually it's not appropriate that Lee's name is at West Point, it's simple appeasement from the gov. I don't care that they recognize him, but he was not part of the United States military, he was their combatant enemy.

the genesis of our currrent Army was the Union Army, not confederate.  No matter how one wants to paint the picture, Lee was an adversary to that cause. 

The only comparison to bin laden is that they each had their loyal followers and were admired for their efforts.  

[DevilDog]

1 minute ago, Horsefly said:

No actually it's not appropriate that Lee's name is at West Point, it's simple appeasement from the gov. I don't care that they recognize him, but he was not part of the United States military, he was their combatant enemy.

the genesis of our currrent Army was the Union Army, not confederate.  No matter how one wants to paint the picture, Lee was an adversary to that cause. 

The South Tortured Black Prisoners.  The revisionism is tragic to say the least and reeks of privilege just like that afforded to those treasonous bastards.