2018 Tier Placement - Final

[Sammyswordsman]

12 minutes ago, Columbiafan said:

Agree with most but Carol City and Central should be in same tier unless one of them loses, at least until they play each other 

They were on the same Tier last week, but this week Carol City's best win AHP lost to Cardinal Gibbons, which devalued the Carol City win.  Central still has the regulation tie vs a very good SJC on the road to their credit

[Columbiafan]

1 minute ago, Sammyswordsman said:

They were on the same Tier last week, but this week Caerol City's best win AHP lost to Cardinal Gibbons, which devalued the Carol City win.  Central still has the regulation tie vs a very good SJC on the road to their credit

Carol City also has running clocked columbus (who haven't lost since and are one of best teams in south FL) and Miami Southridge (who is one of best 8a teams in FL)

 

Carol City resume to date speaks for itself even without the AHP game

 

They have been dominating some of the best teams Miami Dade has to offer and making it look effortless 

 

Regardless it will be settled on the field very soon as they are scheduled to play (i believe next week)

[Sammyswordsman]

2 minutes ago, Columbiafan said:

Carol City also has running clocked columbus (who haven't lost since and are one of best teams in south FL) and Miami Southridge (who is one of best 8a teams in FL)

 

Carol City resume to date speaks for itself even without the AHP game

 

They have been dominating some of the best teams Miami Dade has to offer and making it look effortless 

 

Regardless it will be settled on the field very soon as they are scheduled to play (i believe next week)

Yes.  Hope both teams play well enough for them both to end up on Tier 1.   If Carol City blows out Central, they will take SJC down as well.

[Wooderson]

6 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

LOL.  I was counting on you to not be the #Fakenews guy from AZ.  Guess you are too emotionally vested in Centennial.  Look, you already tried to hide the weenie by saying that Pinnacle has always been Centennials Bitch, then we find out that Cen10 only beat Pinnacle by 3 points at home last year, and needed a last gasp 2  minute drive to do so.  This tells us that the teams were basically pretty much even.

Centennial struggled against a very down BG team, that was slaughtered by MD.

Pinnacles performance vs Jserra was better.

The rest of the games for both teams, mean nothing since they played crap teams.

Centennial graduated their best player, Pinnacle has their best player (QB) back.   At this point, I see no reason that Pinnacle is not the better team by 7-10 points.

Now tell us what else you are hiding.  I already know, but will give you the chance to come clean first.

Pinnacle has always been Centennial's bitch, and a single three-point win doesn't change that one bit.  The fact of the matter is Pinnacle was out-gained in that game 419 yards to 278, held the lead for literally two plays of the game, and had no recourse to stop Centennial from driving the ball down the field in the game's final four minutes when everyone in the English-speaking world knew Zidane Thomas was getting the ball.  I would argue that last year's game was the epitome of Centennial's stranglehold on Pinnacle's manhood-that even with a five-star prospect at quarterback, even with a series of mental errors by Centennial that kept Pinnacle scoring drives alive (see Pinnacle converting three fake punts and the Centennial personal foul on a missed Pinnacle field goal that turned a great defensive stand into an eventual Pinnacle touchdown), even with Pinnacle taking a second-half lead as Centennial appeared to be in total melt-down mode the best Pinnacle could muster was getting the ball back down three with two seconds left in the game.  

Yeah Pinnacle returns Rattler (along with some good offensive weapons, but they also lost his top receiver (transfer to Saguaro) and six of the team's top defenders (that's particularly important since Pinnacle's defense was awful last season).  Yes Centennial lost Thomas (and Escobar, and Beltran, and Franklin), but they replaced him with one 1000-yard back from Vegas (Walker), and another 1000-yard back from southwest Phoenix (Fountain).  Centennial also returned a first-team All-Arizona safety, two three-year starters on the o-line (including an all-state center; they had a third starter back but he quit after losing his position to a junior that finished fourth at the state 5A wrestling meet in the heavyweight division as a sophomore), three defensive line starters, three secondary starters, and an all-state punter.   

I mean, there's a reason that locally Centennial has been ranked ahead of Pinnacle all season-they actually understand losing a 2000-yard rusher is less dire when the program losing him has literally had at least one player run for 1000-yards or more every year since 1998.  In other words, they actually KNOW what they're talking about when it comes to Arizona football while you pay attention to 5-10 ballgames and think that means you have knowledge.    

Bring forward what I'm allegedly hiding all you want-I might actually have to loan you back your testicles on a short-term basis.  Because let's be real-when it comes to Arizona high school football you're fighting out of your weight class by several divisions, and any "victory" you manage to get on me is going to be fleeting.  Come at me child.

[Sammyswordsman]

9 minutes ago, Wooderson said:

Pinnacle has always been Centennial's bitch, and a single three-point win doesn't change that one bit.  The fact of the matter is Pinnacle was out-gained in that game 419 yards to 278, held the lead for literally two plays of the game, and had no recourse to stop Centennial from driving the ball down the field in the game's final four minutes when everyone in the English-speaking world knew Zidane Thomas was getting the ball.  I would argue that last year's game was the epitome of Centennial's stranglehold on Pinnacle's manhood-that even with a five-star prospect at quarterback, even with a series of mental errors by Centennial that kept Pinnacle scoring drives alive (see Pinnacle converting three fake punts and the Centennial personal foul on a missed Pinnacle field goal that turned a great defensive stand into an eventual Pinnacle touchdown), even with Pinnacle taking a second-half lead as Centennial appeared to be in total melt-down mode the best Pinnacle could muster was getting the ball back down three with two seconds left in the game.  

Yeah Pinnacle returns Rattler (along with some good offensive weapons, but they also lost his top receiver (transfer to Saguaro) and six of the team's top defenders (that's particularly important since Pinnacle's defense was awful last season).  Yes Centennial lost Thomas (and Escobar, and Beltran, and Franklin), but they replaced him with one 1000-yard back from Vegas (Walker), and another 1000-yard back from southwest Phoenix (Fountain).  Centennial also returned a first-team All-Arizona safety, two three-year starters on the o-line (including an all-state center; they had a third starter back but he quit after losing his position to a junior that finished fourth at the state 5A wrestling meet in the heavyweight division as a sophomore), three defensive line starters, three secondary starters, and an all-state punter.   

I mean, there's a reason that locally Centennial has been ranked ahead of Pinnacle all season-they actually understand losing a 2000-yard rusher is less dire when the program losing him has literally had at least one player run for 1000-yards or more every year since 1998.  In other words, they actually KNOW what they're talking about when it comes to Arizona football while you pay attention to 5-10 ballgames and think that means you have knowledge.    

Bring forward what I'm allegedly hiding all you want-I might actually have to loan you back your testicles on a short-term basis.  Because let's be real-when it comes to Arizona high school football you're fighting out of your weight class by several divisions, and any "victory" you manage to get on me is going to be fleeting.  Come at me child.

I don't normally spend this much time discussing teams that are not even in the top classification in their State.   Centennials playoff division is pathetic, and so is the rest of the projected schedule.   All your stats mean nothing because you play teams like Sunnyslope, then can only muster 13 points against a very down Gorman team.

It really is surprising that you won't tell everyone the concerns and why they played so bad vs Gorman. 

[Wooderson]

1 hour ago, Sammyswordsman said:

I don't normally spend this much time discussing teams that are not even in the top classification in their State.   Centennials playoff division is pathetic, and so is the rest of the projected schedule.   All your stats mean nothing because you play teams like Sunnyslope, then can only muster 13 points against a very down Gorman team.

It really is surprising that you won't tell everyone the concerns and why they played so bad vs Gorman. 

Thought you were going to spill what I was hiding?  Guess I should invest in some sort of carrier for your gonads, since you don't seem overly eager to have them returned any time soon.

Centennial didn't "play bad" against Gorman-they played a variation of the same game plan that beat Aquinas a year earlier, and excelled at what they've been best at (defense and running the ball) for over 15 years.  They won the turnover battle, out-gained their opponent, and apart from several dropped passes even managed to have a viable (if not extraordinary) passing game.  Did they run a super-stylish offense and put up a ton of points?  No, but why should they when they have been as successful as any team in Arizona (both in-state and out-of-state) throughout the years?  Point of playing the game is to win the game, not look as good as possible with the outcome being secondary.

All told Centennial's trailed in a game just once this season (early on in a game they'd lead 41-7 at the half) and have done so against a reigning state champion team that clobbered a Higley team that hung with Saguaro well in last year's playoffs (Casteel), a team that's 31-1 since 2016 against teams not named "Centennial" (Cienega), a team that's in the driver's seat to win their region (Millennium), and a program that won a state title six years ago (Ironwood Ridge...albeit they are not the program they were in 2012 but have nevertheless been competitive to a large degree since that time).  Oh, and they haven't lost a game.  With Pinnacle, they trailed at the half against a .500 Valley Vista ball club, trailed early against a .500 Horizon team that they didn't put away until the fourth quarter (35-28 ball game going into the fourth quarter), and trailed an admittedly good Liberty team by 19 deep into the third quarter.  Oh, and they have a loss on their schedule, a fact that you can not change nor qualify with how good JSerra may or may not be.  You're not ranking Pinnacle ahead of Centennial based on any factual, on-field result, you're ranking them ahead of Centennial based on what amounts to as a moral victory.

No one ever said 5A was a tough playoff division but let's not act like Class 6A is some daunting gauntlet; Hamilton and to a lesser degree Mountain Pointe have declined rapidly under new coaching regimes, Perry's been handily out-classed in their two marquee matchups (Chandler and Pinnacle), Highland, Chaparral, and Liberty have been exposed to some degree after strong starts, and Desert Vista's best player is a freshman.  Chandler's the clear front-runner in that division followed by Pinnacle, while Centennial is the clear front-runner in 5A followed by Williams Field or Notre Dame (or even the Sunrise Mountain team that played the same Liberty squad that scared the daylights out of Pinnacle down to the final minute).        

          

[ECHS05]

8 hours ago, StingMan44 said:

Last 33 years? Where did you get that number? The school itself opened in the late 90’s but you wouldn’t know that as you don’t follow Arizona high school closely.....which obviously doesn’t stop you from thinking you know more about it than those that do.

 

 

I made the 33 years part up, but the rest is true.

[ECHS05]

This years Pinnacle is different. They wont play Centennial but theyd smack them around.

Nobody cares about Cienega, Higley, or Casteel.

Youve never heard me say a word about them until this season... Its unfortunate the teams wont play.

[Wooderson]

3 hours ago, ECHS05 said:

This years Pinnacle is different. They wont play Centennial but theyd smack them around.

Nobody cares about Cienega, Higley, or Casteel.

Youve never heard me say a word about them until this season... Its unfortunate the teams wont play.

Pinnacle can't "smack around" Horizon, how are they going to do that against a team that's been their daddy for over 15 years?

Do everyone a favor and defer to the Arizona guys on the matter. You (and Sammy) have no qualifications from which to speak from, you have no knowledge base on the matter, and you can think games against "crap" teams don't matter but they do when a team shows a propensity for struggling against those "crap" teams. Jumping to sweeping conclusions about teams based on a small sample size of OOS games is rather profoundly flawed.

[badrouter]

14 hours ago, Columbiafan said:

Carol City also has running clocked columbus (who haven't lost since and are one of best teams in south FL) and Miami Southridge (who is one of best 8a teams in FL)

 

Carol City resume to date speaks for itself even without the AHP game

 

They have been dominating some of the best teams Miami Dade has to offer and making it look effortless 

 

Regardless it will be settled on the field very soon as they are scheduled to play (i believe next week)

Had Carol City played any random limp dick from a state other than Florida, they'd be ahead of Central and mot everyone else. MUCH better for national rankings lists to play a pansy from a state other than your own than playing good teams from your own state, even if that state is elite nationally. 

[Columbiafan]

1 hour ago, badrouter said:

Had Carol City played any random limp dick from a state other than Florida, they'd be ahead of Central and mot everyone else. MUCH better for national rankings lists to play a pansy from a state other than your own than playing good teams from your own state, even if that state is elite nationally. 

Pretty much 

 

When a team doesn't play oos or a well recognized name they will get overlooked 

 

In FL the only teams in state that beating likely supersedes a oos game is beating St Thomas Aquinas or IMG Academy 

 

If it wasn't for us beating IMG Academy in KOC we wouldn't be getting any love in the polls right now

 

But when Carol City plays Central they will get the chance to prove themselves 

[badrouter]

28 minutes ago, Columbiafan said:

Pretty much 

 

When a team doesn't play oos or a well recognized name they will get overlooked 

 

In FL the only teams in state that beating likely supersedes a oos game is beating St Thomas Aquinas or IMG Academy 

 

If it wasn't for us beating IMG Academy in KOC we wouldn't be getting any love in the polls right now

 

But when Carol City plays Central they will get the chance to prove themselves 

Part of me thinks a Carol City win will mostly serve to discredit Central. And, by proxy, SJC. It's like without some/any OOS team on the schedule, you simply won't be ranked high (unless you play in the greater Los Angeles area with a massive exposure advantage). Huge flaw in how rankings are generated, but it is what it is.

[Sammyswordsman]

33 minutes ago, badrouter said:

Part of me thinks a Carol City win will mostly serve to discredit Central. And, by proxy, SJC. It's like without some/any OOS team on the schedule, you simply won't be ranked high (unless you play in the greater Los Angeles area with a massive exposure advantage). Huge flaw in how rankings are generated, but it is what it is.

Agree that a Carol city win over Central will derail SJC hopes for a MNC.  Carol City would then be the top east coast team

[badrouter]

46 minutes ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Agree that a Carol city win over Central will derail SJC hopes for a MNC.  Carol City would then be the top east coast team

But why wouldn't Carol City be in the running? Other than the stupid reason speculated on above.

[ohio]

23 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

Things change in a week.  Like MD losing badly to SJB which only beat JSerra by 7, which only beat Pinnacle by 7

on the other hand Pinnacle only beat BG by 6, which got slaughtered by MD 0-49.  So there that to consider 

So, if JSerra beats MD, do they move up to Tier 1?

[Sammyswordsman]

39 minutes ago, ohio said:

So, if JSerra beats MD, do they move up to Tier 1?

A lot of variables at play to answer that right now.  It would be possible that a JSerra win pulls MD and IMG to Tier 2

[Extremely Humble]

1 hour ago, Sammyswordsman said:

A lot of variables at play to answer that right now.  It would be possible that a JSerra win pulls MD and IMG to Tier 2

So are we just gonna say JSerra had a really bad night against Bishop Amat?

[Sammyswordsman]

49 minutes ago, Extremely Humble said:

So are we just gonna say JSerra had a really bad night against Bishop Amat?

Yep. Not a good game for the Lions fortunately for them their schedule allowed for them to redeem themselves 

[Extremely Humble]

15 hours ago, Sammyswordsman said:

fortunately for them their schedule allowed for them to redeem themselves 

Well played. You knew where I was going...

[Sammyswordsman]

11 minutes ago, Extremely Humble said:

Well played. You knew where I was going...

Two dimensional chess is Tier 6

The Tiers operate at 4D chess

[TigerHat]

Well I see Lake Travis finally disappeared from the Tiers. They hadn't played anyone, the CalPreps computer had them as ~ 15th in Texas at their best, and then they got smoked by Westlake - after Westlake lost at home to Houston Cy Ranch.

Their whole existence in the Tiers and the MaxPreps Excellent 25 was based on the combination of their last two games last year, where their team played completely out of their minds, and people not understanding that this year they had only average to good O and D linemen. Will they be a factor in this year's playoffs? Yes - Converse Judson is the only team in Region IV they have to worry about, so they likely make the Semi-Finals again - where North Shore gives them a beat down of Biblical proportions.

 

[Sammyswordsman]

1 hour ago, TigerHat said:

Well I see Lake Travis finally disappeared from the Tiers. They hadn't played anyone, the CalPreps computer had them as ~ 15th in Texas at their best, and then they got smoked by Westlake - after Westlake lost at home to Houston Cy Ranch.

Their whole existence in the Tiers and the MaxPreps Excellent 25 was based on the combination of their last two games last year, where their team played completely out of their minds, and people not understanding that this year they had only average to good O and D linemen. Will they be a factor in this year's playoffs? Yes - Converse Judson is the only team in Region IV they have to worry about, so they likely make the Semi-Finals again - where North Shore gives them a beat down of Biblical proportions.

 

As stated in the Tiers Metrics, it is extremely difficult to vet the Texas teams, due to mostly non competitive games on the schedule prior to the  late playoffs, and a small number of OOS data points.  Thus it takes longer to find out which Texas teams are for real.  Even so, we react quicker than the mainstream polls

[dntn31]

On 10/15/2018 at 7:40 PM, Extremely Humble said:

So are we just gonna say JSerra had a really bad night against Bishop Amat?

I like how a road win against a top 10 team in the CIFSS is considered a "really bad night".

[Extremely Humble]

On 10/17/2018 at 10:04 PM, dntn31 said:

I like how a road win against a top 10 team in the CIFSS is considered a "really bad night".

Bishop Amat 28 - 27 Chaminade 

So either Bishop Amat isn't that good or Chaminade is wayyyyy better than you guys want to give them credit for. 

[dntn31]

1 hour ago, Extremely Humble said:

Bishop Amat 28 - 27 Chaminade 

So either Bishop Amat isn't that good or Chaminade is wayyyyy better than you guys want to give them credit for. 

You're putting too much emphasis on MOV.