concha Posted October 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 15 minutes ago, Horsefly said: They both are unrecognizable. That’s the reason I walked away from the Republican Party. Curious how the Republican Partyhas changed. Leftists call Republicans "radicals" now, though I would argue (easily) that it is due to the Dems' inexorable moves to the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 26 minutes ago, concha said: Curious how the Republican has changed. Leftists call Republicans "radicals" now, though I would argue (easily) that it is due to the Dems' inexorable moves to the left. Bottom line, both have given voice to extremism. For me I was off put by Palin, then conspiracy politics entered the fray. IMO politics has become tabloid like. I’m still ideologically conservative, just can’t align with the party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 On 10/3/2018 at 2:59 PM, dan in daytona said: I detected a little "sugar" in his speech (confirmed by "google" search), but being a lefty that is inconsequential to my ilk. I hope the young man one day realizes a large percentage of his new so called friends on the Right will never except his life style choices. Some have to learn the hard way (No pun intended). Nolebull, what do you think about your new brother ? Just one note to show how slippery the slope is, that you have slid..... Knowing you meant ACCEPTANCE, I would point directly to the word and say you have no concept of what it means..... (also evidenced by your Freudian slip spelling 😄) If you have tolerance and inclusiveness in society and are treated equally, then just what exactly is this supposed "acceptance" of which you speak? The right to try and make others think like you do? or the right to dance your parade down main street?.....kinda like the KKK does? Maybe the right to be prejudice against all those straight people.... ….because they, in their mind, can never be like you???? Isn't respect a two way street? Your 'ilk' cannot march down both sides of main, blocking all two way traffic, and still claim victim status, because everyone is not gay like you yet (figuratively 🙄... of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 19 hours ago, dan in daytona said: I detected a little "sugar" in his speech (confirmed by "google" search), but being a lefty that is inconsequential to my ilk. I hope the young man one day realizes a large percentage of his new so called friends on the Right will never except his life style choices. Some have to learn the hard way (No pun intended). Nolebull, what do you think about your new brother ? I know you didnt ask me as I am now just reading the thread. This is how i look at it.....hes gay. I dont have to associate with him. But hes a Republican vote and that's all that matters right now. To get as many people to leave the Democrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan in daytona Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 4 hours ago, Troll said: Just one note to show how slippery the slope is, that you have slid..... Knowing you meant ACCEPTANCE, I would point directly to the word and say you have no concept of what it means..... (also evidenced by your Freudian slip spelling 😄) If you have tolerance and inclusiveness in society and are treated equally, then just when exactly is this supposed "acceptance" of which you speak? The right to try and make others think like you do? or the right to dance your parade down main street?.....kinda like the KKK does? Maybe the right to be prejudice against all those straight people.... ….because they, in their mind, can never be like you???? Isn't respect a two way street? Your 'ilk' cannot march down both sides of main, blocking all two way traffic, and still claim victim status, because everyone is not gay like you yet (figuratively 🙄... of course) I'm not sure, not comprehending what you are getting at ? My point to the young man was his move from the left to the right now put him among a larger group, with a higher percentage, that doesn't ACCEPT (thanks) those who are gay. Is that a misstatement ? An untruth ? As for my use of the words " tolerance" and "inclusiveness" you aren't arguing that the left and right are equal on the their acceptance and tolerance of others unlike themselves ? If that's your point then I totally disagree. One only needs to observe a Trump rally or a Republican meeting, gathering, or convention to shoot that theory all to hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan in daytona Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 3 hours ago, HSFBfan said: I know you didnt ask me as I am now just reading the thread. This is how i look at it.....hes gay. I dont have to associate with him. But hes a Republican vote and that's all that matters right now. To get as many people to leave the Democrats. I wouldn't expect you to associate with him. His value to you is a vote. That's a little "cold" for my taste, but sometimes the truth hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 Just now, dan in daytona said: I'm not sure, not comprehending what you are getting at ? My point to the young man was his move from the left to the right now put him among a larger group, with a higher percentage, that doesn't ACCEPT (thanks) those who are gay. Is that a misstatement ? An untruth ? As for my use of the words " tolerance" and "inclusiveness" you aren't arguing that the left and right are equal on the their acceptance of others unlike themselves ? If that's your point then I totally disagree. One only needs to observe a Trump rally or a Republican meeting, gathering, or convention to shoot that theory all to hell. define ACCEPT on your terms.... If "tolerance, inclusion, and equal treatment" in society does not define "ACCEPT" for you in societal terms … then you must define what you think is missing ...or what else needs to be included, to slide down your slippery slope.... If you are trying to say that people on the right are less 'accepting' of gays one could easily posit that based in the terms above, the Left falls far shorter...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, dan in daytona said: I wouldn't expect you to associate with him. His value to you is a vote. That's a little "cold" for my taste, but sometimes the truth hurts. How exactly is it cold? His value is to be whoever he is. I dont have to agree with how he lives but hes not impacting my life. Now that he will vote Republican that would be 1 thing me and him would agree on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, dan in daytona said: I wouldn't expect you to associate with him. His value to you is a vote. That's a little "cold" for my taste, but sometimes the truth hurts. See this is where you fall short.....when you cannot recognize the respect the right gives to others who are different from their own... His stating of disassociation (up front and honest btw) is also implies he respects the distance one must allow between vastly differing ideologies, and I'd probably lay 10-1 odds He doesn't give a FF what they do.... context.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Troll said: See this is where you fall short.....when you cannot recognize the respect the right gives to others who are different from their own... His stating of disassociation (up front and honest btw) is also implies he respects the distance one must allow between vastly differing ideologies, and I'd probably lay 10-1 odds He doesn't give a FF what they do.... context.... Nope I truly dont lol doesnt impact my life in the slightest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan in daytona Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 20 minutes ago, Troll said: define ACCEPT on your terms.... If "tolerance, inclusion, and equal treatment" in society does not define "ACCEPT" for you in societal terms … then you must define what you think is missing ...or what else needs to be included, to slide down your slippery slope.... If you are trying to say that people on the right are less 'accepting' of gays one could easily posit that based in the terms above, the Left falls far shorter...... I don't mean to be disingenuous, but my words seem clear. The Left accept those who are different (religion, nationality, race, social status, gender affiliation, etc) in a much high percentage then the right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, dan in daytona said: I don't mean to be disingenuous, but my words seem clear. The Left accept those who are different (religion, nationality, race, social status, gender affiliation, etc) in a high percentage then the right Is that because they are being told to do so and cant think for themselves? Or are afraid of being labeled by society for not accepting those people? Kids these days grow up wanting attention and acceptance every single day of their lives. It's how many friends they have on facebook or Instagram or snapchat etc etc. And if they dont get it they are suicidal. Or they cant handle being a "outsider". You dont have to accept everyone and you dont have to be accepted. Sorry but that's the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan in daytona Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 If you are trying to say that people on the right are less 'accepting' of gays one could easily posit that based in the terms above, the Left falls far shorter...... Are you saying the left is less tolerant ? #havingaseniormoment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 minute ago, dan in daytona said: If you are trying to say that people on the right are less 'accepting' of gays one could easily posit that based in the terms above, the Left falls far shorter...... Are you saying the left is less tolerant ? #havingaseniormoment This post wraps up 2018.....who is more tolerant. Who gives a shit. Why is this such a big deal. Like who you like. Dislike/hate who you want too. This is a free country. Associate with whoever you want. But dont expect everyone to accept you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 1 minute ago, dan in daytona said: I don't mean to be disingenuous, but my words seem clear. The Left accept those who are different (religion, nationality, race, social status, gender affiliation, etc) So do the right....and so do the middle... Basically you simply post slanderous accusations, professing to know your opposition better than they do, without posting HOW this occurs or having anything to back it up... Instead of just throwing mudd in the air, go ahead and follow thru...… In what terms are they 'less accepting'.... and exactly HOW does the right not accept it??? (basically go ahead I'm letting YOU choose your own terms and take the first swing LOL....) 1 minute ago, dan in daytona said: If you are trying to say that people on the right are less 'accepting' of gays one could easily posit that based in the terms above, the Left falls far shorter...... Are you saying the left is less tolerant ? #havingaseniormoment If your term is "Tolerant" now.....(gee what happened to the seemingly stronger..."ACCEPTANCE") Yes we can discuss that ….. Is that the term you are going to "STICK WITH" now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, dan in daytona said: I don't mean to be disingenuous, but my words seem clear. The Left accept those who are different (religion, nationality, race, social status, gender affiliation, etc) in a much high percentage then the right One more thing....the left let's say a gay man who is a liberal accepting an Islamic guy who in turn under his religion would throw him from a roof for being gay. Doesnt that seem dumb to accept someone that would kill you? That would be like a black person accepting the KKK in the 1960s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concha Posted October 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 46 minutes ago, dan in daytona said: I'm not sure, not comprehending what you are getting at ? My point to the young man was his move from the left to the right now put him among a larger group, with a higher percentage, that doesn't ACCEPT (thanks) those who are gay. Is that a misstatement ? An untruth ? As for my use of the words " tolerance" and "inclusiveness" you aren't arguing that the left and right are equal on the their acceptance and tolerance of others unlike themselves ? If that's your point then I totally disagree. One only needs to observe a Trump rally or a Republican meeting, gathering, or convention to shoot that theory all to hell. Typical leftist identity politics. He's gay. Put him a box and he has to vote for us, 'cause, well he's gay. As if being gay is the be-all and end-all of his existence. It works the same with blacks, for example. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan in daytona Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 19 minutes ago, Troll said: So do the right....and so do the middle... Basically you simply post slanderous accusations, professing to know your opposition better than they do, without posting HOW this occurs or having anything to back it up... Instead of just throwing mudd in the air, go ahead and follow thru...… In what terms are they 'less accepting'.... and exactly HOW does the right not accept it??? (basically go ahead I'm letting YOU choose your own terms and take the first swing LOL....) If your term is "Tolerant" now.....(gee what happened to the seemingly stronger..."ACCEPTANCE") Yes we can discuss that ….. Is that the term you are going to "STICK WITH" now? Repeated from above: "As for my use of the words " tolerance" and "inclusiveness" you aren't arguing that the left and right are equal on the their acceptance and tolerance of others unlike themselves ? If that's your point then I totally disagree. One only needs to observe a Trump rally or a Republican meeting, gathering, or convention to shoot that theory all to hell." That's all I got. Take it, leave it, trash it, whatever. I've taken "google" spell check, Webster's New World College Dictionary, and Roget's Thesaurus as far as my average intelligence will take me at the moment. Please be swift with my dismemberment...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 4, 2018 Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 4 hours ago, dan in daytona said: Repeated from above: "As for my use of the words " tolerance" and "inclusiveness" you aren't arguing that the left and right are equal on the their acceptance and tolerance of others unlike themselves ?<<<<NO not Equal, what I'm saying (If you will shut up about Trump conventions and define your terms), that I will posit that they in fact do a better job than the left in some regards... ( that If that's your point then I totally disagree. One only needs to observe a Trump rally or a Republican meeting, gathering, or convention to shoot that theory all to hell."<<your opinion is noted. Got anything to back it up? That's all I got. <<<WELL that sure was a quick debate... Take it, leave it, trash it, whatever. I've taken "google" spell check, Webster's New World College Dictionary, and Roget's Thesaurus as far as my average intelligence will take me at the moment. Please be swift with my dismemberment......🤣No Problem 👍 Dan, all good as you are really no target of mine.... But as the topic came up, you fell into a bullshit trap, allow me to clarify... The BIGGEST problem with the whole gay/straight ideology wars, is the people no longer have the foggiest idea what the Grand Canyon size difference there is between the idea of 'Tolerance vs Acceptance'. In fact everyone now seems to use the terms interchangeably without even giving any thought to the difference.... Where in the difference of those two terms, lies the only solutions to the issue...FOR EVERYONE... Your a smart guy, When I shouted, you saw the snare and jumped right back to 'Tolerance'... best move,LOL 👍….Castle up stick to the high ground and hold it LOL...This IS where your own arrows work as the 'far right' DOES have a much more visceral reaction to say "seeing dudes kiss in public" etc. so If you got nothing else, you can just point to that and say....'look....see? But try breaking it down and defining ALL the TERMS to see where you really stand.... If you refuse to even define, your very own terms, I'll try and help you out. There are 4 terms in play.... "1) tolerance, 2) inclusion, 3) equal treatment", and 4) ACCEPT. No need to beat this too hard, since you were really just snared and not looking for debate. But since it was started, I'll drop the posit. Take the first three, I'll give you your 'Tolerance' mud arrows to the right and even let you go as far to say many are even "repulsed" by it (see what a nice guy I am allowing you to use good strong arrows?LOL)….scoreboard 1-0... But you are going to have to 'earn' your wins for 2, 3, and 4*. As you cannot scramble all these together as well and try to call them all the same thing...either. (ie. I would rather befriend one who disagrees but includes and treats equal, than vice versa)... So how does that stack up??? Hmm let's see....awe jeeze what's up wit #3??? Ruh Roh….they are not treated 'equally' by the left....with special victim status received they are clearly "different" and legislatively separated....too bad...….1-1... Now I can gladly leave this at a draw... because the point was not to argue, but to possibly point to a solution.....to the actual snare... INSTEAD OF USING THE WORD "ACCEPT"......USE THE WORD "RESPECT"...in any arguments with such vastly differing ideologies... YOU WILL NEVER GET AN OPPONENT TO ACCEPT ANYTHING....BUT YOU CAN GAIN THEIR RESPECT...by showing the same. sorry just a point of clarification. "1) Tolerance, 2) Inclusion, 3) Equal Treatment, and 4) Respect"...…..from society...…#5 Accept ...is an individual or personal choice...just like any ilk's. Carry On ….I think that's just a flesh wound....not dismemberment...LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belly Bob Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 21 hours ago, Horsefly said: My fundamental belief is that the individual should be able to pursue what benefits them as long as it doesn’t infringe on the rights of others. (As an ex. I’m socially conservative but have no problem if someone else is not, they don’t need to conform to my belief) I believe in the basic tenets of libertarianism but don’t think as a society we are there to see it as our government oversight. My support for a candidate can cross political lines all depending on what I think is important at the time and who is speaking to that need. Strange. I wouldn't have guessed that our political opinions, at least in their foundations, were as close as they would appear to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsefly Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, Belly Bob said: Strange. I wouldn't have guessed that our political opinions, at least in their foundations, were as close as they would appear to be. That’s bc we spend a lot of time discussing isolated/singular issues (overwhelmingly racial) and not general beliefs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted October 5, 2018 Report Share Posted October 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Horsefly said: That’s bc we spend a lot of time discussing isolated/singular issues (overwhelmingly racial) and not general beliefs that's theproblem with most topics on message boards... Not blaming anyone....I wind up doing the same thing too often... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio Posted October 6, 2018 Report Share Posted October 6, 2018 On 10/3/2018 at 10:29 PM, Horsefly said: My fundamental belief is that the individual should be able to pursue what benefits them as long as it doesn’t infringe on the rights of others. (As an ex. I’m socially conservative but have no problem if someone else is not, they don’t need to conform to my belief) I believe in the basic tenets of libertarianism but don’t think as a society we are there to see it as our government oversight. My support for a candidate can cross political lines all depending on what I think is important at the time and who is speaking to that need. The problem with both the Democratic and Republic parties is that they are under the control of the vocal, extremist left and right. There doesn't seem to be any overlap on the issues. For example, a common approach to gun laws would be to allow law abiding citizens to buy and own guns, but make very strict laws to keep guns away from the mentally ill, terrorists, and criminals. Also, make harsh laws for anyone who sells their guns to others without transfer registration. But many Dems want to make all guns illegal, even though the majority of the public want to own guns. On the flip side, many Reps want to see even the current lax laws weakened. Both sides seem to have lost all sense of reality due to the vocal, demanding, and conniving extremists. Good for you. Keep thinking for yourself. Never become a lemming. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBfan Posted October 6, 2018 Report Share Posted October 6, 2018 1 hour ago, ohio said: The problem with both the Democratic and Republic parties is that they are under the control of the vocal, extremist left and right. There doesn't seem to be any overlap on the issues. For example, a common approach to gun laws would be to allow law abiding citizens to buy and own guns, but make very strict laws to keep guns away from the mentally ill, terrorists, and criminals. Also, make harsh laws for anyone who sells their guns to others without transfer registration. But many Dems want to make all guns illegal, even though the majority of the public want to own guns. On the flip side, many Reps want to see even the current lax laws weakened. Both sides seem to have lost all sense of reality due to the vocal, demanding, and conniving extremists. Good for you. Keep thinking for yourself. Never become a lemming. Who are you to deny the rights of Americans based upon their mental makeup? Wouldnt that violate their constitutional right? And what kind of mentally Ill? Slippery slope no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohio Posted October 6, 2018 Report Share Posted October 6, 2018 53 minutes ago, HSFBfan said: Who are you to deny the rights of Americans based upon their mental makeup? Wouldnt that violate their constitutional right? And what kind of mentally Ill? Slippery slope no? Oh, I don't know. Maybe the criminally insane? Suicidal ones? Fanatic ones that are easily manipulated, like terrorists? Loony ones that shoot up schools? You do know that almost every other country with lower crime and murder rates make you go through a rigorous mental exam before you are allowed to own a gun. It's just common sense. Just because the Constitution makes no mention of who should or shouldn't be allowed to own firearms doesn't mean that there should be no such rules and guidelines. So by your logic, should criminals be allowed to own guns? Shouldn't murderers be allowed to own guns? Shouldn't terrorists be allowed to own guns? If not, wouldn't it violate their constitutional right? Who should own or not own guns is decided by society, not the constitution. Besides, this isn't the point of this arguement. The problem is that both political parties have gone off the deep end, and it seems that common sense has gone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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